Tren - gear of the gods

[spentagn]

They are the same, but the cost of Tt tren is outrageous. What is it, like $250 or so for 20ml?

 

[G-Force]

mmmmm Tren aaahhhhhhhh (in my best Homer voice hehehe) Great post Zyg. I suggest everyone gives Fina a shot at least once yso you can see for yourself the wonders of this drug!

M18

I think I will cos I've always wanted to do it anyway since my mate used Finaject a few years ago and the results were unbelieveable!

 

[Busta]

Fina is my new friend!


Almighty the same thing happened to me I gained all my wieght the firts 2-3 weeks then I leveled of and the last 2 weeks I started to shed the fat.

 

[MUSTANG_18]

is it the more the availability and cost of fina that attracts most? say vs. something like ttokyo tren for example?

would they otherwise be comparable? not too much info on the boards here with ttokyo tren is why i'm asking. seems many people are sold on finaplex.

The results it gioves is what attracts me the most. Ttokkyo Tren is a good product but why anyone would pay 250+ for one bottle that they could make themselfs with the high quality as well for $75 ? I sure as hell ain't paying that much for one bottle of Tren LOL

M18

 

[stryder]

NAN (6.6 mg/kg/day) was infused continuously for 17 days using a subcutaneous silasti

This is a great post but I think that it is worth noting that these rats had an intake of 6.6/kg per day of nandrolone. If you do the math the average man weighs 100kgs, so you would have to take 600mgs per day in order to get comperable results. Now I have used as much as 200mg per day of deca for very short periods but 600mg is way up there in dosage. In any case I thing the point is very valid, it does explain why fina/deca gains are easier to keep and why they go so well with GH and insulin.

 

[Zyglamail]

This is a great post but I think that it is worth noting that these rats had an intake of 6.6/kg per day of nandrolone.

Point taken stryder. My goal was juts to show that the effects of certian drugs to increase igf-1 can have drastic effects on cell growth/proliferation as well as fat loss.

Here are a couple more abstracts showing increased IGF-1 based on much smaller doses of tren in much larger animals.

Granted, most studies will have a combined estrogen, but IGF-1 levels are still raised on tren alone and some of these studies further detail cell proliferation

Effect of a combined trenbolone acetate and estradiol implant on steady-state IGF-I mRNA concentrations in the liver of wethers and the longissimus muscle of steers.

Johnson BJ, White ME, Hathaway MR, Christians CJ, Dayton WR.

Animal Growth and Development Laboratory, Department of Animal Science, University of Minnesota, St. Paul 55108, USA.

Treatment of lambs (initial BW 28 kg) for 24 d with a combined implant containing 40 mg of trenbolone acetate (TBA) and 8 mg of estradiol (E2) increased ADG 25% (P < .05, n = 8) and feed efficiency 23% (P < .05, n = 2) compared with unimplanted lambs. By d 3 following implantation, sera from wethers implanted with TBA + E2 showed 32% (307 vs 233 ng/mL) increases (P < .001, n = 8) in IGF-I concentration compared with sera from unimplanted wethers. This increase was maintained throughout the entire 24-d study. Steady-state hepatic IGF-I mRNA levels were increased approximately 150% in implanted lambs compared with unimplanted lambs (P < .05, n = 4). These data suggest that liver may be the source of at least part of the increased circulating IGF-I in TBA + E2-implanted sheep. In steers implanted with Revalor-S (120 mg of TBA and 24 mg of E2) for 40 d, the steady-state concentration of IGF-I mRNA in the longissimus muscle was 68% greater than in the longissimus muscle of unimplanted steers (P = .013, n = 4). Consequently, increased local production of IGF-I by muscle tissue may play a role in increasing circulating IGF-I concentrations as well as an autocrine or paracrine role in stimulating muscle growth in steers implanted with Revalor-S.

and another....

Activation state of muscle satellite cells isolated from steers implanted with a combined trenbolone acetate and estradiol implant.

Johnson BJ, Halstead N, White ME, Hathaway MR, DiCostanzo A, Dayton WR.

Department of Animal Science, University of Minnesota, St. Paul 55108, USA.

Muscle satellite cells were isolated from seven yearling steers implanted for 31 d with a combined implant that contained 120 mg of trenbolone acetate (TBA) and 24 mg of estradiol (E2) and from seven nonimplanted, control steers. Implanted steers had a 28% greater ADG and a 23% greater feed efficiency than did nonimplanted steers. Implanted steers had increased (P<.001) circulating IGF-I concentrations on d 6, 14, and 31 after implantation, and circulating IGF-I concentrations in control steers remained constant or decreased (P<.05) at these times. Maximum fusion percentage was greater (P< .005) in satellite cell cultures isolated from implanted steers (ISC cultures) than in satellite cell cultures isolated from control steers (NSC cultures) (72.8% vs 54.8%, respectively). Satellite cell cultures isolated from implanted steers (ISC cultures) also contained a greater (P<.001) number of myotube nuclei than did NSC cultures (7,998 nuclei/cm2 vs 5,150 nuclei/cm2, respectively). After 72 h in culture, the number of cells (corrected for plating density) was 43% greater (P<.05) in ISC cultures than in NSC cultures. [3H]Thymidine incorporation rates per 10(5) cells at 24 and 34 h after plating were greater (P<.05) in ISC cultures than in NSC cultures; however, incorporation rates did not differ at 72 h. These data indicate that TBA + E2 implantation may result in an in vivo activation of muscle satellite cell proliferation that can be detected in cell culture. This activation may play an important role in TBA + E2-enhanced muscle growth.

and if your real bored......

Use of trenbolone acetate and estradiol in intact and castrate male cattle: effects on growth, serum hormones, and carcass characteristics.

Hunt DW, Henricks DM, Skelley GC, Grimes LW.

Clemson University, SC 29634.

The effects of anabolic implant on growth, carcass characteristics, and serum hormones were examined in 30 young bulls and steers fed a growing diet then a finishing diet. In a 2 X 3 factorial arrangement, steers and bulls received an implant of trenbolone acetate (TBA), TBA and estradiol-17 beta (E2), or no implant. Blood samples were taken serially (every 20 min for 6 h) at intervals during the growing and finishing phases. Percentage of DM, fat, protein, and ash and Warner-Bratzler shear test were measured and taste panel evaluations of the 9-10-11 rib section were obtained. Treatment with TBA and E2 increased weight gain in steers but not in bulls. There were no differences in feed efficiency, serum growth hormone (GH), and cortisol concentrations between bulls and steers or between treated groups and controls in bulls or steers, although during the finishing phase mean GH concentrations in treated steers were twofold higher than in controls and were similar to those in the bull groups. Serum insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) increased twofold during the growing phase, then remained at that level. Steers implanted with TBA and E2, which had the highest gains among the steer groups, had the highest serum GH and IGF-I. Longissimus steaks from bulls treated with TBA alone or TBA and E2 were comparable to steaks from steers in the shear test. Taste panelists found steaks from TBA- and E2-treated bulls to be similar in tenderness and connective tissue to steaks from steers.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

Now, this one is rather interesting.

Trenbolone alters the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to fibroblast growth factor and insulin-like growth factor I.

Thompson SH, Boxhorn LK, Kong WY, Allen RE.

Department of Animal Sciences, University of Arizona, Tucson 85721.

The potential role of satellite cells in mediating the effect of trenbolone [17 beta-hydroxyestra-4,9-11-trien-3-one (TBOH)] on skeletal muscle hypertrophy was examined. Young female Sprague-Dawley rats received TBOH injections daily for 2 weeks; growth, body composition, and the composition of selected muscles were assessed. Treated rats grew more rapidly and deposited less body lipid and more protein. The semimembranosus muscle from treated rats was larger and had approximately 60% more DNA per muscle than muscles from control rats. The addition of trenbolone directly to the medium of cultured satellite cells did not stimulate cell proliferation, nor did it augment the stimulatory response of these cells to fibroblast growth factor (FGF) or insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I). In contrast, satellite cells cultured from TBOH-treated rats exhibited greater proliferative responses to FGF and IGF-I than satellite cells from control rats. In addition, serum from TBOH-treated rats stimulated greater cell proliferation in satellite cell cultures than serum from control rats. These experiments suggest that one possible mechanism responsible for the ability of TBOH to stimulate skeletal muscle hypertrophy may be through enhanced proliferation and differentiation of satellite cells as a result of the increased sensitivity of these cells to IGF-I and FGF.

Now, what I am really curious about at present anyways is how localized this responsiveness or increase in IGF-1 is to the injection site. I may just have to grab the full text on some of these and see what shakes out.

Oh well, food for thought if nothing else

 

[Zyglamail]

This one is rather interesting as well, but more geared toward the effects of IGF-1.

IGF-I restores satellite cell proliferative potential in immobilized old skeletal muscle
Manu V. Chakravarthy1, Bradley S. Davis1, and Frank W. Booth1,2
1 Department of Integrative Biology, University of Texas Medical School, Houston, Texas 77030; and 2 Department of Veterinary Biomedical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Missouri, Columbia, Missouri 65211

One of the key factors responsible for the age-associated reduction in muscle mass may be that satellite cell proliferation potential (number of doublings contained within each cell) could become rate limiting to old muscle regrowth. No studies have tested whether repeated cycles of atrophy-regrowth in aged animals deplete the remaining capacity of satellite cells to replicate or what measures can be taken to prevent this from happening. We hypothesized that there would be a pronounced loss of satellite cell proliferative potential in gastrocnemius muscles of aged rats (25- to 30-mo-old FBN rats) subjected to three cycles of atrophy by hindlimb immobilization (plaster casts) with intervening recovery periods. Our results indicated that there was a significant loss in gastrocnemius muscle mass and in the proliferative potential of the resident satellite cells after just one bout of immobilization. Neither the muscle mass nor the satellite cell proliferation potential recovered from their atrophied values after either the first 3-wk or later 9-wk recovery period. Remarkably, application of insulin-like growth factor I onto the atrophied gastrocnemius muscle for an additional 2 wk after this 9-wk recovery period rescued ~46% of the lost muscle mass and dramatically increased proliferation potential of the satellite cells from this muscle.

 

[hickey]

Anybody read anything about IGF-1 causing estrogen? The debate is that IGF-1 can cause Gyno. (I believe by binding to estrogen receptors) And, that this, not progesterone increases is the cause of Fina Gyno. I'm no expert on the subject, but the studies are out there. Maybe someone a little more in the know can touch on the subject.

 

[Zyglamail]

There are many causes of gyno, ER, PR, IGF-1, prolactine, liver problems, simple imbalances between androgens and estrogens etc. Im thinking its niether PR or IGF-1 individually, but a combination of both.

P.S. IGF-1 is a hormone and wont bind to the estrogen receptor.

 

[rocketrman]

zyg, if igf-1 is a hormone & will not bind to the ER, then how does it ( supposedly ) cause gyno ? help, because i love tren !