Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Treating symptoms, not the numbers

Many trt clinics recommend dosing for test at 2x a week. Take HCG at 250IU 2 days before and then the day before just one of your 2 weekly test injections.

How much test you need depends on your symptoms and how you respond to it. You shouldnt fly blind if you looking to be on trt from now till the end of time, the goal is to find a test level that doesnt throw your BP or blood test numbers out of whack.

Hey Zyg can u plz explain for us the science behind shooting HCG 2 days in a row before the test shot? cuz i usually shoot it the same days of my test shots on monday and thursday to avoid pinning more than 2 days per week (Mon 100mg test + 250iu hcg , thursday 100mg test + 250iu HCG) is it ok like that or better the way u said.
 
Hi there, thanks everyone for the advice and help to keep me on track.

Is an AI the same as an anti estrogen? Can I use Letrozole as per the latest article by George Spellwin? Will this accomplish the same ends?

Thanks again...

H

yes AI means Aromatase Inhibitor (or anti-estrogen) like Arimidex (Anastrozol) , Femara (Letrozol) and Aromasin (Exemestan) , beware of Letrozol it's the strongest among them all and can dries u up and weakens ur joints and ur bones , so start with the lowest recommended doses (1.25mg e3d half a tab) and see what happens and if u need more after 2 weeks at least.
 
Is this HCG protocol something that can be done indefinetly or does it need to be cycled?

I see a lot of claims here on the forum that HCG will lose its effectiveness over time and every time I see that claim I ask for the study that led to that conclusion.

The only study that has been shown to back up that theory was one where individuals where taking large doses of HCG (cant remember exact amount but it was like 2000IU) for an extended period of time (like 2 years). At that point they raised the dose of HCG from 2000iu to like 2500IU and saw no increase in natural test production over using 2000IU (or what ever the number was).

That caused people to come to the conclusion that you get desensitized to it but is that really whats happening?

For starters the body has many feedback loops for most hormones. You can artificially raise natural test production by using anti-e's also, but with those also there comes a point where your body is simply only going to produce so much test regardless of how little E it thinks there is in the system or how much LH is in the system in the case of HCG.

This lack of not getting your testes to produce more test by upping an already high dose of hcg to a higher one does not mean they have become desensitized.

That being said at low dose 2x 250IU a week I have not see any studies indicating there is any desensitization. On the contrary, HCG has a very short half life of like 24 hours or less if I remember correctly. So natural LH production will decrease or cease in the presence of external test and in turn testicles will atrophy. sporadic low dose HCG has proven to reduce the testicular atrophy associated with low dose test use.
 
Hey Zyg can u plz explain for us the science behind shooting HCG 2 days in a row before the test shot? cuz i usually shoot it the same days of my test shots on monday and thursday to avoid pinning more than 2 days per week (Mon 100mg test + 250iu hcg , thursday 100mg test + 250iu HCG) is it ok like that or better the way u said.

The protocol is basically one devised by Dr Crisler from empirical evidence gained in his practice.....

In my paper My Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer TRT for Men, published in A4Ms 2004/5 Anti-Aging Clinical Protocols, I introduced a new protocol where small doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG) are regularly added to traditional TRT (either weekly IM testosterone cypionate or daily cream/gel). The reasons and benefits of this protocol are as follows, along with a new improvement I wish to share:

Any physician who administers TRT will, within the first few months of doing so, field complaints from their patients because they are now experiencing troubling testicular atrophy. Irrespective of the numerous and abundant benefits of TRT, men never enjoy seeing their genitals shrinking! Testicular atrophy occurs because the depressed LH level, secondary to the HPTA suppression TRT induces, no longer supports them. It is well known that HCG a Luteinizing Hormone (LH) analog will effectively, and dramatically, restore the testicles to previous form and function. It accomplishes this due to shared moiety between the alpha subunits of both hormones.

So, that satisfies an aesthetic consideration which should not be ignored. Now lets delve into the pharmacodynamics of the TRT medications. For those employing injectable testosterone cypionate, the cypionate ester provides a 5-8 day half-life, depending upon the specific metabolism, activity level, and overall health of the patient. It is now well-established that appropriate TRT using IM injections must be dosed at weekly intervals, in order to avoid seating the patient on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. Adding in some HCG toward the end of the weekly cycle compensates for the drop in serum androgen levels by the half-life of the cypionate ester. Certainly the body thrives on regularity, and supplementing the TRT with endogenous testosterone production at just the right time without inappropriately raising androgen OR estrogen (more on that later) approximates the excellent performance stability of transdermal testosterone delivery systems for those who, for whatever reason or reasons, prefer test cyp.

But theres another metabolic reason to employ this protocol. The P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones, glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition of HCG (which also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or even partially, HPTA-suppressed.

It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.

In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).

I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.

Those TRT patients who prefer a transdermal testosterone, or even testosterone pellets (although I am not in favor of same), take their HCG every third day. They neednt concern themselves with diminishing serum androgen levels from their testosterone delivery system. These patients will, of course, notice an increase in serum androgen levels above baseline.

While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more traditional TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.
 
The protocol is basically one devised by Dr Crisler from empirical evidence gained in his practice.....

Thx Zyg very interesting read, do u think for ppl dividing their test shot to twice a week could inject HCG at 250iu on the day before each test shot?
for ex: sun 250iu hcg, mon 100mg test e, wed 250iu hcg, thu 100mg test e
 
Thx Zyg very interesting read, do u think for ppl dividing their test shot to twice a week could inject HCG at 250iu on the day before each test shot?
for ex: sun 250iu hcg, mon 100mg test e, wed 250iu hcg, thu 100mg test e

It certainly wouldnt hurt to try. If your on TRT, run it one way for a month, then the other for a month. I think the natty test boot provided by HCG is likely less noticeable for 2x weekly injections than those on 1.
 
It certainly wouldnt hurt to try. If your on TRT, run it one way for a month, then the other for a month. I think the natty test boot provided by HCG is likely less noticeable for 2x weekly injections than those on 1.

Probably a correct assumption as the reason for the second injection per week is to stabilise test levels, which is what the 2 hCG shots before the one weekly test shot was doing by increasing LH and therefore the bodies endogenous supplies??

Personally I am going to start the TRT with 1 of each (hCG & Test E) 2xweek...Will let you know :biggrin:
 
i think ur right guys since shooting twice a week is to stabilize levels in the first place but i will try shooting hcg one day b4 each shot, and i'll report back if i feel any difference , maybe this way it'll be even more stable specially for the other hormones productions.
 
Get this, I told a friend of mine about low T, he decided to get it checked out by his GP, T results came back low, so his GP gave him a shot of T @ 1000mg, and his next one is in..................6 months time. Not sure what ester she gave him, but regardless, I feel for the guy. He will probably feel okay for a week and then gradually feel worse. Told you South Africa is way behind the curve regarding TRT

BTW, my order shipped today, feel like a kid waiting for Christmas morning :)
 
Get this, I told a friend of mine about low T, he decided to get it checked out by his GP, T results came back low, so his GP gave him a shot of T @ 1000mg, and his next one is in..................6 months time. Not sure what ester she gave him, but regardless, I feel for the guy. He will probably feel okay for a week and then gradually feel worse. Told you South Africa is way behind the curve regarding TRT

BTW, my order shipped today, feel like a kid waiting for Christmas morning :)

Oh lord, feel sorry for your friend.:( BTW, is Test illegal to buy where you are at? Like in the States?
 
Top Bottom