Training theory question...

[T-Rage]

Should we be doing movements that require support in order to handle heavier weight? I personally don't think so. Here is an example.

Lets say someone can do overhead dumbell presses with no back support (just strattling a bench) and can use 50 lb. dumbells with good form.

But with back support they can handle 65 lb. dumbells with good form.

Isn't this a bad idea? Shouldn't we not support the back so that it grows stronger along with our shoulders? Even if someone can handle heavier weight with back support doesn't this create unusable strength in the real world? I mean the shoulders may be able to handle the weight but the back can't as it was always given the day off by supporting it. Am I totally off my rocker? And if I am correct in my opinion on this is there a time when it is ok to use support of some kind whether it be a belt or something else?

 

[Baoh]

Should we be doing movements that require support in order to handle heavier weight? I personally don't think so. Here is an example.

Lets say someone can do overhead dumbell presses with no back support (just strattling a bench) and can use 50 lb. dumbells with good form.

But with back support they can handle 65 lb. dumbells with good form.

Isn't this a bad idea? Shouldn't we not support the back so that it grows stronger along with our shoulders? Even if someone can handle heavier weight with back support doesn't this create unusable strength in the real world? I mean the shoulders may be able to handle the weight but the back can't as it was always given the day off by supporting it. Am I totally off my rocker? And if I am correct in my opinion on this is there a time when it is ok to use support of some kind whether it be a belt or something else?

It is better to do exercises standing when possible, and with minimal support involved. It is more useful in the "real world" when trained in an unstable manner. Also, it's not just a matter of simply a weak link (in this case, the lower back), but also a matter of coordination, which only practice can provide (standing dumbbell OHPs would provide this practice, for example). I'd only use supported work to add volume, mix things up, or work around an injury IF the goal is "useful" strength.

 

[casualbb]

Disclaimer: I am a big fan of huge compound movements. Go deadlifts, go squats, etc.

On the other hand, I do supported movements for most other things. Why? Well, it allows me to use more weight, which can stretch out the weight progression and cause more growth. I certainly want useable world strength, but not at the expense of growth. I do think I get some anyway from squats and deads.

Actually, with the example you gave, that would only really help your lower back if you don't do lower-back oriented stuff at some other point.

-casualbb

 

[spatts]

I like no support when compound and some support when isolating.

 

[vinylgroover]

Should we be doing movements that require support in order to handle heavier weight? I personally don't think so. Here is an example.

Lets say someone can do overhead dumbell presses with no back support (just strattling a bench) and can use 50 lb. dumbells with good form.

But with back support they can handle 65 lb. dumbells with good form.

Isn't this a bad idea? Shouldn't we not support the back so that it grows stronger along with our shoulders? Even if someone can handle heavier weight with back support doesn't this create unusable strength in the real world? I mean the shoulders may be able to handle the weight but the back can't as it was always given the day off by supporting it. Am I totally off my rocker? And if I am correct in my opinion on this is there a time when it is ok to use support of some kind whether it be a belt or something else?

But unless you're a removalist or scaffold erector, what benefit will this 'useable' strength hold for you in the real world.

If support can mean the difference between less injuries and not, isn't that a more sensible way to go?

Don't forget that alot of 'bodybuilding' movements are not natural movements, and therefore, they should be performed with support.

Movements like squats, deadlifts etc are natural movements so it's ok to use minimal support.......but many of the other exercises are not.