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Frackal
Guest
Deca caused my anus to change colors rapidly
Top Reasons Why Testosterone is a Bad Choice!!
- Thread starter 2Thick
- Start date
Dr.RobertBanner
New member
Hmm, never tried deca but will (with test in a few weeks). But I still think test is one of the best AAS we have, and should be the base of almost all serious bulking cycles.
Test is:
-cheap
-very effective
-an all round useful drug (cutting/bulking)
-side effects can be controlled fairly easily
-easy to get
-one of the few AAS that is great all by itself (along with tren)
-the only AAS that works as a Class 1 and Class 2 drug
Das my 2 cents!
Test is:
-cheap
-very effective
-an all round useful drug (cutting/bulking)
-side effects can be controlled fairly easily
-easy to get
-one of the few AAS that is great all by itself (along with tren)
-the only AAS that works as a Class 1 and Class 2 drug
Das my 2 cents!
FreakMonster
New member
S
slobberknocker
Guest
Lots of thought provoking info in this thread.
Discussion is an exchange of knowledge, argument an exchange of ignorance
WOW!
You guys are confusing us newbies big time! It is good and welcomed that we see debates here, but what is interesting, that EliteFitness's own Drug Prifiles doesn't mention ANY of the side effects that you talk about Deca...
"Side Effects:
Deca can be used by almost all athletes, with positive results and very few side effects. The drug is a moderate androgen, highly anabolic compound. It has minimal liver toxicity and only aromatizes in excessive dosages. Deca does have an effect on the body's natural hormone axis yet it is not nearly as pronounced as it is with drugs like testosterone. Unfortunately, Deca has very stubborn metabolites which have been known to show up on a steroid test as long as 12 months after it was administered. This, in combination with the number of athletes using it, has contributed to its showing up on more steroid tests than any other compound. For this reason, any athlete that has the potential of being subjected to a steroid test should not be using Deca. For those who are not steroid tested, it remains the number one choice."
yet, a shitload of se on test
" Side Effects:
Like all testosterones, Cypionate is greatly androgenic, extremely anabolic, amortizes easily, and is moderately liver toxic. The high conversion to estrogen can lead to gynocomastia and fat storage. Cypionate causes the body to retain significant amounts of water and electrolytes a characteristic favored by some and opposed by others. Higher dosages can lead to a decreased sperm count and decreased natural testosterone production. Currently, research is being performed to use testosterones as male birth control due to the temporary reduction in sperm counts observed in those on testosterone therapy. Reports indicate that as birth control, testosterone is more effective than the pill and condoms and that it is reversable upon cessation of use. In those predisposed to hypertension, testosterone can lead to high blood pressure. In adolescents, it can lead to premature stoppage in growth. Increased aggressiveness, although exaggerated by the media, can become more pronounced with testosterone Cypionate . Hair loss and deepening of the voice sometimes occurr."
than similar side effects on enanthate and propionate.
Not sure why you all blasted 2Thick like that, but all is fair in love and war I guess. Now I see that Sustanone's reviews states...
"Side Effects:
Because Sustanon is effective at lower doses, users report fewer side effects. IE: less aromatization, less water retention, less liver stress, and less endocrine system disturbances. Users report the usual irritability and aggressiveness with Sustanon as with other testosterones."
So it appears that the safest approach would be a test combo like Sustanon, or this is just another misconseption?
And let me finish by saying that tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another’s beliefs, practices and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them.
Thank you, Tigrones
WOW!
You guys are confusing us newbies big time! It is good and welcomed that we see debates here, but what is interesting, that EliteFitness's own Drug Prifiles doesn't mention ANY of the side effects that you talk about Deca...
"Side Effects:
Deca can be used by almost all athletes, with positive results and very few side effects. The drug is a moderate androgen, highly anabolic compound. It has minimal liver toxicity and only aromatizes in excessive dosages. Deca does have an effect on the body's natural hormone axis yet it is not nearly as pronounced as it is with drugs like testosterone. Unfortunately, Deca has very stubborn metabolites which have been known to show up on a steroid test as long as 12 months after it was administered. This, in combination with the number of athletes using it, has contributed to its showing up on more steroid tests than any other compound. For this reason, any athlete that has the potential of being subjected to a steroid test should not be using Deca. For those who are not steroid tested, it remains the number one choice."
yet, a shitload of se on test
" Side Effects:
Like all testosterones, Cypionate is greatly androgenic, extremely anabolic, amortizes easily, and is moderately liver toxic. The high conversion to estrogen can lead to gynocomastia and fat storage. Cypionate causes the body to retain significant amounts of water and electrolytes a characteristic favored by some and opposed by others. Higher dosages can lead to a decreased sperm count and decreased natural testosterone production. Currently, research is being performed to use testosterones as male birth control due to the temporary reduction in sperm counts observed in those on testosterone therapy. Reports indicate that as birth control, testosterone is more effective than the pill and condoms and that it is reversable upon cessation of use. In those predisposed to hypertension, testosterone can lead to high blood pressure. In adolescents, it can lead to premature stoppage in growth. Increased aggressiveness, although exaggerated by the media, can become more pronounced with testosterone Cypionate . Hair loss and deepening of the voice sometimes occurr."
than similar side effects on enanthate and propionate.
Not sure why you all blasted 2Thick like that, but all is fair in love and war I guess. Now I see that Sustanone's reviews states...
"Side Effects:
Because Sustanon is effective at lower doses, users report fewer side effects. IE: less aromatization, less water retention, less liver stress, and less endocrine system disturbances. Users report the usual irritability and aggressiveness with Sustanon as with other testosterones."
So it appears that the safest approach would be a test combo like Sustanon, or this is just another misconseption?
And let me finish by saying that tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another’s beliefs, practices and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them.
Thank you, Tigrones
I have done both, the deca only cycle and the test only cycle.
Test is much better for gaining mass and strength.
Deca is better for maintaining mass and strength while cutting.
On deca only I was not impressed.
Test Enthanate...wow!
No more deca for me. Probably going with EQ and Test from now on.
Test is much better for gaining mass and strength.
Deca is better for maintaining mass and strength while cutting.
On deca only I was not impressed.
Test Enthanate...wow!
No more deca for me. Probably going with EQ and Test from now on.
Deca death
Hey,Huck. Okay. I've been on deca 4000mgs/week for 10 monthes ( and lots of others). After you get done reminding that this is insane, remember that I work with a Doctor. In any case, I'd like to phase out of deca and phase onto EQ, and keep the cycle going. I know you have importmant thoughts about this, would you pm or email me?
HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex said:
Hey,Huck. Okay. I've been on deca 4000mgs/week for 10 monthes ( and lots of others). After you get done reminding that this is insane, remember that I work with a Doctor. In any case, I'd like to phase out of deca and phase onto EQ, and keep the cycle going. I know you have importmant thoughts about this, would you pm or email me?
macrophage69alpha
New member
test is king 
karachi183
New member
This may be stupid but if men create the same test as synthetic test then where do genetics come from? And why aren't we all created equal. And if one's natural test is naturally lower then synthetic wouldn't that constitute a diference between the two.
The Ranger
New member
macrophage69alpha said:test is king
And (Mac & his *twin* are Gods!)
Heh heh heh
Ranger
Damn, someone dusted off this old thread huh? Test is a great choice if it works for you. 2thick is a Deca fan. He's projecting what works for best for him onto others. Just bear with him here, it's really what he does all the time. It's 2Thick after all. But he does have his points about test, but don't let it keep you from experimenting with it. Tell you why.
When i first started ASing, as i call it, I was pertrified of all the potential side effects, especially hair loss. So naturally back in the day i loaded up on mild AS like Primo, Winny, And lots of Organnon Yellow top Deca, I also scored Extraboline as well, which was Greek Deca. So i started using all the stuff i had my hands on in very low dosages and suffered just about all the side effects one could get, from sexual disfunction to hair loss, but made good gains, even on 100mg primo per week, good genetics i suppose. So after being frustrated for some time i said fuck it, i suffered all the siedes anyway so i tried test. Never got a single side effect from it with the exception of water retention. Even with dosages approaching 1000mg weekly ( i did this one time to experiment and concluded 500mg was optimal) all i got was moderate bloat and NOTHING else. So to ME test is a wonder AAS and i will always use it.
When i first started ASing, as i call it, I was pertrified of all the potential side effects, especially hair loss. So naturally back in the day i loaded up on mild AS like Primo, Winny, And lots of Organnon Yellow top Deca, I also scored Extraboline as well, which was Greek Deca. So i started using all the stuff i had my hands on in very low dosages and suffered just about all the side effects one could get, from sexual disfunction to hair loss, but made good gains, even on 100mg primo per week, good genetics i suppose. So after being frustrated for some time i said fuck it, i suffered all the siedes anyway so i tried test. Never got a single side effect from it with the exception of water retention. Even with dosages approaching 1000mg weekly ( i did this one time to experiment and concluded 500mg was optimal) all i got was moderate bloat and NOTHING else. So to ME test is a wonder AAS and i will always use it.
georgie24 said:
Exactly what i got with Deca, Except the tits, but i had puffy nips on it. I said in the past that i noticed that Guys who really gravitate to Deca have something about their system that Hates test, and guys like me who love test have something in their system that really does not work well with deca. Hence the Deca vs test debates all the time.
not to mention my sex drive plummets i get depressed paraniod and riddled with anxiety and feel like an 8 year old girl running from greasy janitor. im going to give deca a run before i quit gear all together to see if at least i enjoy that cycle. ive tried icn's,ug and i get the same shit results eveytime.
shortstack
Banned
NPP the winner, yay!
testbaby25
New member
to say that test is no good is ridiculous...i always use it and i sure as hell dont loose close to half of my gains after the cycle...and for me deca sucks so
milo hobgoblin
New member
Deca shuts me down faster than nekkid pictures of Richard Simmons
instant.muscle
New member
when people say they shut down from deca what do they mean? only sexually? what is libido, and after ur off ur cycle of deca how long does deca dick last while only on cycle?
I'm pro-test myself.
My thoughts exactly
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
Nate Dog said:
Let me be the bajillionth person to say what a gay stupid post I can't believe I'm adding to it...
Damn .... I remember this thread. This is an individual thing. Correct me if I am wrong .. but wasnt that the whole purpose as to why Deca was created in the first place? To produce a steroid that gave the same effects as test (better imo), but without the test side effects?
Anyways, this thread is waaay outdated. Personally for me, test I feel side effects more than gains. The balance dosent weigh out right for me. I have never ran either alone, but I have ran them both without each other before. The reason why people experience problems with Deca, ... is because they dont know how to properly, or effectively, or safely run it. Most people run Deca at too high of a dosage, or too long, or without anything for prolactin, and most importantly in the absense of HCG.
As someone mentioned early ... the ideal way to take nandrolone is as NPP. If you are wanting to experiment with nandrolone, try it as NPP. Read BigAndys thread on NPP. It states MANY reasons why this is a better choice. It is a more effeicient way to cycle, no "dead" time while waiting for long acting depots to kick in or clear. You can stop if run into sides. You also avoid the the cummulative effect of the Deca ester, which compounds when running it for long .. and WHICH GIVES YOU PROBLEMS. This is why I agree with others in that Deca Durabolin is a drug that should be tapered. Its pretty much the only drug that a few people do a pyramid taper with still. These are the people that never complain of Deca sides or loss of libido. Years ago, when most people used a pyramid taper with deca, no one really complained about nasty libido sides from deca. Ask any old school lifter (.. and they have all used it). The wave of complains rained in when people recommended the same dosage throughout the whole cycle, without a taper. The cummulative effect with the Deca ester over time will fuck you.
So ... for many obvious reasons, NPP is a much better choice. The next best thing you can do when running NPP, is run some cabergoline with it. My last run with NPP, my mojo was higher than average while taking the NPP. I added some cabergoline to the mix, and it went through the roof! I have stopped it now (off for about 6 wks), and I feel like it has increased my sex drive for good. I feel like i actually have a healthier sex drive now after running the cabergoline and NPP, than before I even started. Maybe I had high prolactin levels before, and the cabergoline leveled them out, who knows, but I am running stronger than ever now. I was more than impressed with cabergoline.
Last but not least .. use HCG for PCT with NPP. Make it the pivitol focus in your PCT, and use SERMS as a supportive role at best. HCG can even be used during the cycle.
I am willing to bet that almost EVERYONE who got fucked up from Deca either ..
1. did not run it as NPP (how many people have you heard of get sides from NPP? I have yet to here ONE!).
2. Ran deca for a long period of time.
3. Ran deca at a high dosage (no tapering)
4. Did not include HCG usage.
5. Did not take anything for prolactin.
6. Or .. they were using other stuff and could not necessarily pin point their problems on Deca.
I am a big advocate of NPP now, and I thank BA69 for introducing me to it. It will be in all my cycles from now on. Most people recommend test only for a first cycle. I think that you can make just as good, if not better gains from using NPP to start. Stacked with dbol and you should be loving life.
For a first cycle besides the "test only" cycle that almost everyone recommends, I would try an NPP/dbol cycle for a first cycle. THese are my favourite combination of two drugs period. Someone posted a cycle like this the other day, and I think that it would be a very impressive, low side effect cycle.
Wk1-8
NPP: 100mg/eod
Dbol: 20mg/day
wk1-9: Cabergoline 0.5mg/e4d
wk10: PCT with HCG, (standard PCT like the one drjmw suggests)
A newbie with everything in check should do quite well with this cycle, and should'nt experience side effects. If they did, it would more than likely be from the dbol. They could always substitute the dbol for Winstrol or var if they wanted, but they wont be as effective as dbol.
My vote goes to NPP. The only test that I will run in my cycles from here on out, will be a very small base dosage (like 250/wk), if I even decide to run it again.
Mavy
Anyways, this thread is waaay outdated. Personally for me, test I feel side effects more than gains. The balance dosent weigh out right for me. I have never ran either alone, but I have ran them both without each other before. The reason why people experience problems with Deca, ... is because they dont know how to properly, or effectively, or safely run it. Most people run Deca at too high of a dosage, or too long, or without anything for prolactin, and most importantly in the absense of HCG.
As someone mentioned early ... the ideal way to take nandrolone is as NPP. If you are wanting to experiment with nandrolone, try it as NPP. Read BigAndys thread on NPP. It states MANY reasons why this is a better choice. It is a more effeicient way to cycle, no "dead" time while waiting for long acting depots to kick in or clear. You can stop if run into sides. You also avoid the the cummulative effect of the Deca ester, which compounds when running it for long .. and WHICH GIVES YOU PROBLEMS. This is why I agree with others in that Deca Durabolin is a drug that should be tapered. Its pretty much the only drug that a few people do a pyramid taper with still. These are the people that never complain of Deca sides or loss of libido. Years ago, when most people used a pyramid taper with deca, no one really complained about nasty libido sides from deca. Ask any old school lifter (.. and they have all used it). The wave of complains rained in when people recommended the same dosage throughout the whole cycle, without a taper. The cummulative effect with the Deca ester over time will fuck you.
So ... for many obvious reasons, NPP is a much better choice. The next best thing you can do when running NPP, is run some cabergoline with it. My last run with NPP, my mojo was higher than average while taking the NPP. I added some cabergoline to the mix, and it went through the roof! I have stopped it now (off for about 6 wks), and I feel like it has increased my sex drive for good. I feel like i actually have a healthier sex drive now after running the cabergoline and NPP, than before I even started. Maybe I had high prolactin levels before, and the cabergoline leveled them out, who knows, but I am running stronger than ever now. I was more than impressed with cabergoline.
Last but not least .. use HCG for PCT with NPP. Make it the pivitol focus in your PCT, and use SERMS as a supportive role at best. HCG can even be used during the cycle.
I am willing to bet that almost EVERYONE who got fucked up from Deca either ..
1. did not run it as NPP (how many people have you heard of get sides from NPP? I have yet to here ONE!).
2. Ran deca for a long period of time.
3. Ran deca at a high dosage (no tapering)
4. Did not include HCG usage.
5. Did not take anything for prolactin.
6. Or .. they were using other stuff and could not necessarily pin point their problems on Deca.
I am a big advocate of NPP now, and I thank BA69 for introducing me to it. It will be in all my cycles from now on. Most people recommend test only for a first cycle. I think that you can make just as good, if not better gains from using NPP to start. Stacked with dbol and you should be loving life.
For a first cycle besides the "test only" cycle that almost everyone recommends, I would try an NPP/dbol cycle for a first cycle. THese are my favourite combination of two drugs period. Someone posted a cycle like this the other day, and I think that it would be a very impressive, low side effect cycle.
Wk1-8
NPP: 100mg/eod
Dbol: 20mg/day
wk1-9: Cabergoline 0.5mg/e4d
wk10: PCT with HCG, (standard PCT like the one drjmw suggests)
A newbie with everything in check should do quite well with this cycle, and should'nt experience side effects. If they did, it would more than likely be from the dbol. They could always substitute the dbol for Winstrol or var if they wanted, but they wont be as effective as dbol.
My vote goes to NPP. The only test that I will run in my cycles from here on out, will be a very small base dosage (like 250/wk), if I even decide to run it again.
Mavy
Last edited:
Bruce
New member
just got 17lbs of deca only cycle no test, no gyno ever from deca and i fuck like a pornstar. so it is diff for everyone, test made me get balls under my nipple within weeks and i do deca for 12 weeks with win 5 weeks after. progesterone overrated. however, i do now think eq is superior because of the appetite.
krishna
New member
My body also produces bile and HCl, but I don't want to inject that in my body, so that shouldn't be a reason to use Test over Deca.
Testosterone is a hormone (specifically a male hormone) and functions much differently than these waste products. If I'm gonna be shooting synthetics into my body, I'd much rather have one that most resembles my bodies own substance. Your body was designed to use testosterone, not that imposter deca! If anything, test should be your first choice.
Testosterone is a hormone (specifically a male hormone) and functions much differently than these waste products. If I'm gonna be shooting synthetics into my body, I'd much rather have one that most resembles my bodies own substance. Your body was designed to use testosterone, not that imposter deca! If anything, test should be your first choice.
Sir-Que
New member
bruce410 said:
I hear what you'er sayin I had no problems with deca as well. I consider test much more harsher in sides than deca, but that's me. Everybody is different, but the thing I can't get past is........why are so many guys against a drug that for the most part has been the stape of the BB community for so long.
Obviously i'm about to run a liberal cycle with no test but I can't get past the fact that deca is so talked down and dis-couraged around here.
SQ-
shamrock11
New member
Ok I'm doing a deca only cycle at 400mg/week and I am in my sixth week of a ten weker and am having no problems what so ever. No sex drive problems, can fuck like a pron staa. I have put on 15 pounds of LBM and my strength gain are nothing short of phenonimal. Oh! and as far as natural test and synthetic test being different is bullshit. The two chemical are exactly the same and have the exact same functions in the body and I am and chemist and a biologist and I work at a major pharmesutical company that makes test along with some other good stuff.
krishna
New member
shamrock11 said:
Good post! Just using simple logic, I assumed both natural and synthetic test would be the same too, but I had no evidence to argue otherwise so I didn't say anything. I'm not against deca, I'm just taking test's side on this one because this whole thread started by bashing test.
shamrock11
New member
LOL doesn't matter to me I'll use what works best for me. It doesn't matter what other people think. I'm going to run a test cycle for my next cycle.
U
UA_Iron
Guest
gettin a little nostalgic...
the opinions of hte boards have changed quite a bit it seems
the opinions of hte boards have changed quite a bit it seems
M
Mr.X
Guest
why was this bumped? it's almost 5 years old
Only1eagle
New member
What happened to huck? LOL
B
basskiller
Guest
blast from the past..LOLMr.X said:
_____________________
Bodybuilding is not a live or die lifestyle..
It's much more important than that!
Owner @ World Class Bodybuilding
Owner @basskilleronline.com
SUPERMOD @ AnabolicUniverse.com
2Thick said:
TEST IS THE KING OF ALL AAS. PERIOD. Everything you just said is WRONG. There is no other AAS that builds mass like test. Lets examine whats wrong with all your ridiculous theories.
1) WATER WEIGHT IS NOT GAINS. You will lose water weight when you come off, but I guarantee that the true quality gains made will surpass those made by any other AAS.
2) Test is not that terrible on anything. In fact, besides cosmetic side effects (acne, hariloss, bloat), it has relatively few sides, and compared to other AAS such as orals and trenbolone, it is mild.
3) If you are genetically disposed to hairloss, chances are ANY AAS WILL ACCELERATE THIS. I have been using test for years, have no MPB in my family whatsoever, and have never lost a single hair on my head. Winstrol is the only AAS that ever made my hair fall out.
4) TEST DOES NOT REQUIRE HIGHER DOSES. In fact, unless your a competing bodybuilder, you will probably NEVER have to go higher than 750-1000 mgs per week.
5) GYNO IS 100% AVOIDABLE WITH THE USE OF ANTI-ESTROGENS.
6) When used properly, anti-estogens will NOT HINDER GAINS, and any miniscule amount that they do will be unnoticable. The key to anti-e's is using THE SMALLEST AMOUNT POSSIBLE TO COUNTERACT SIDES. For some people this means .5 mgs of adex e.d., for others it means 1 mg adex and 20 mgs nolva. Everyone is different.
You think deca is better than test? Hahahahahahaha! Deca is a nice addition to a test cycle, but without the test it's like a burger without the meat. TEST IS THE KING.
M
Mr.X
Guest
basskiller said:
real old post
floridalife
New member
Hey curious can anyone elaborate on the comment that test may be bad for the colon, in what way?
Jesus...haven't seen this thread in ages.
LOL...2Thick was asking for an ass-whoopin' on this one.
Where the hell is that guy at anyway....
...btw, never heard anything negative in regards to testosterone affecting the colon. Then again, never really looked into it.
BMJ
LOL...2Thick was asking for an ass-whoopin' on this one.
Where the hell is that guy at anyway....
...btw, never heard anything negative in regards to testosterone affecting the colon. Then again, never really looked into it.
BMJ
floridalife
New member
reason why it's interesting is I had colon issues, and I had NEVER heard of or seen that comment before.. anyone else know why that may have been said other than stupidity? There's alot of things you can make up and that's typicially not something that would come to someone;s mind
justinjones1963
New member
talk about raising a post from the dead...
I say screw test and deca...EQ is my whore.
I say screw test and deca...EQ is my whore.
tempest2003
New member
Ive suffered major, well at least for me, major gyno sides from deca, and i dont think its as rare as what you let on personally. I find test related gyno much easier to control2Thick said:
chazk
New member
test prop and suspension clears the body very fast and allows the body to readjust and make test on its own quicker. deca has a long clear time stays in the body very active for 4-8 weeks then its metabolites can been detected for 9 months up to a year.2Thick said:
most deca users including myself that have used both compounds will note that with proper pct they can be up and running once more in 3 weeks after the test cycle ends while the nandralone cycles shut them down so hard it takes months to recover.
thats my argument on why test , eq ,dbol, anadrol are all better then deca and nandralones for recovery and drug detection clearance
alot of top amatures in tested events shoot test suspension every day right up to the day before the event try that even with deca prop and you have a postive everytime
sorerotators
Well-known member
gerrit badenhorst doesnt like test?
M
Mr.Pumped
Guest
You know what pisses me off? People who try to convince other people that what works for them will work for everyone. Genetic makeup, dedication, diet, knowledge of what works for them in and out of the gym is what constitutes what works! As far as gear use, you'll only know what effect a specific compound will have on you through trial and eror. He talks like he knows what he is talking about but I hope that his avatar really isn't him. That should let everyone know what he really knows!
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