Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Top court strikes blow to Medicare in Canada
- Thread starter Razorguns
- Start date
Razorguns
Well-known member
bluepeter said:
Standard of Healthcare improves.
Waiting times dwindle.
People have options
This is a bad thing?
There are no incentives to be effective and efficient in Canada. Competition and alternatives; the presence of a free market; changes all that.
There is little value in "free" services. There is no incentive to be responsible for a product when the end customer isn't paying for it or has alternatives.
When people pay -- they demand quality. If it's not there .. they move and take their dollars elsewhere. This ensures medical professionals and hospitals ship up and offer the best in quality.
Free Market / Private owns Public.
Read Matt's crazy ass essays on public vs private skuels.
Last edited:
bluepeter
New member
Razorguns said:
I apologize to you and everybody else for the comment. This subject really burns me.
Anyway, your point about there not being any incentive to be effective and efficient is exactly what I am talking about. Remove the restriction on how much doctors can make and suddenly there is a big incentive to be be effective and efficient.
As for people having options? No they don't. Only the wealthy have an option. Do the 45 million Americans without health coverage have options? No, other than going to a free clinic if you still have those.
I have heard the argument that it is fine to have both systems. Everyone has universal coverage but you have the option of paying to go to a private resource. That might be OK but again, with the restriction on how much a doctor can make, what do you think will happen?
I agree 100% with this. They are moving this general direction in our country (ie controlling doctors salaries) and all it will do is fuck up the standard of care. With standardized wages, doctors will become complacent, a large portion of the best candidates will no longer have an interest, and medicine will become the new teaching.bluepeter said:
Griz1
New member
Bear in mind that alot of this semi-failure of the Canadian health care system has to do with the way funds are allocated. It's not that money will not help the CHS, it's that the money's put in are directed away from more useful expendatures.
For example, every time the feds or provinces pony up with a cash infusion, repairing the public perception is the concern. Hence the money is spent on a new structure, a new million dollar + machine, etc. all with the appropriate media fanfare giving the impression in the paper that they are doing something "grand".
Instead the money's should be shifted towards "basic services" and money's for more doctors and nurses. It's the beurocracy itself that has created an issue. Since Mr. Douglas pushed for this, up until the 80's it worked fine. What happened in the 80's? The internal CHS's beurocracy expanded significantly which slowed things down. With fewer docs and nurses, guess what? Huge waiting times, overloaded staff that has to access an incredibly complex sytem just to get stuff done/approved/etc.
Like so many institutions, it has grown so fat it is now a burden to it's own well being. Eliminating caps on Dr.'s salaries would help too. Guess what docs we're getting up here? Yup, bottom of the barrel. Why would a doc choose to work in this country if he's gifted, or successful? My wife and I fought for a long time to find a doctor who could locate his own ass without aid of a nurse, and we finally found one! Guess what his story is? He is tired of working full time as a doctor and has decided to work half-time with some deal he worked with the province while he spends his "real" time breeding horses with his wife. He is from Texas and spent his career down there honing his skills. In this deal with the province he now limits his patients to the point where this guy actually spends a good half an hour with you for any kind of a visit (instead of the drive by 2 min visit/trioge/"Oh you're not dying right now, go away").
Unfortuneatly alot of politicians do not figure out just how bad health care is because they get waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better health care than we do. They THINK they get the same but it's NOT and we know it. There is a hospital in eastern Canada that is under DND jurisdiction, but caters only to high level govt. officials. It is the most modern, and BEST hospital in Canada. No waiting for important folks. You can get a full body scan the next day if you are an MP, or similar. But of course that's not common knowledge in Canada. CBC dug it up a few years back and got a slap on the wrist for it (I believe by getting a budget cut from the Feds the following week - but my memory is fuzzy on those events).
The CHS WORKS! It just doesnt work as well anymore and needs an enema. Years ago, when I went to a doctor there was little waiting, lots of attention and no problems. After the 80's it began it's decline and now just plain S U C K S.
If you don't think that a public health care system works. Look at Europe. Switzerland (or Sweden, I forget which) was examined by Canadians recently to understand why their public system works. They were asked questions regarding wait times and access to services. The people who did the study reported (verbally) that they were met with looks of confusion and responses such as "What do you mean wait times? Access? Of course they have access, there's no waiting, this is a health care facility!" And guess what the cost is....nothing (just taxes).
Why doesn't Canada's work?
Private health care is not necessarily the answer, just a better design to what used to work. Remember Europe's health care systems are older than ours and they are not bogged down by beurocracy and politics, their health care systems are sacred to them.
For example, every time the feds or provinces pony up with a cash infusion, repairing the public perception is the concern. Hence the money is spent on a new structure, a new million dollar + machine, etc. all with the appropriate media fanfare giving the impression in the paper that they are doing something "grand".
Instead the money's should be shifted towards "basic services" and money's for more doctors and nurses. It's the beurocracy itself that has created an issue. Since Mr. Douglas pushed for this, up until the 80's it worked fine. What happened in the 80's? The internal CHS's beurocracy expanded significantly which slowed things down. With fewer docs and nurses, guess what? Huge waiting times, overloaded staff that has to access an incredibly complex sytem just to get stuff done/approved/etc.
Like so many institutions, it has grown so fat it is now a burden to it's own well being. Eliminating caps on Dr.'s salaries would help too. Guess what docs we're getting up here? Yup, bottom of the barrel. Why would a doc choose to work in this country if he's gifted, or successful? My wife and I fought for a long time to find a doctor who could locate his own ass without aid of a nurse, and we finally found one! Guess what his story is? He is tired of working full time as a doctor and has decided to work half-time with some deal he worked with the province while he spends his "real" time breeding horses with his wife. He is from Texas and spent his career down there honing his skills. In this deal with the province he now limits his patients to the point where this guy actually spends a good half an hour with you for any kind of a visit (instead of the drive by 2 min visit/trioge/"Oh you're not dying right now, go away").
Unfortuneatly alot of politicians do not figure out just how bad health care is because they get waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better health care than we do. They THINK they get the same but it's NOT and we know it. There is a hospital in eastern Canada that is under DND jurisdiction, but caters only to high level govt. officials. It is the most modern, and BEST hospital in Canada. No waiting for important folks. You can get a full body scan the next day if you are an MP, or similar. But of course that's not common knowledge in Canada. CBC dug it up a few years back and got a slap on the wrist for it (I believe by getting a budget cut from the Feds the following week - but my memory is fuzzy on those events).
The CHS WORKS! It just doesnt work as well anymore and needs an enema. Years ago, when I went to a doctor there was little waiting, lots of attention and no problems. After the 80's it began it's decline and now just plain S U C K S.
If you don't think that a public health care system works. Look at Europe. Switzerland (or Sweden, I forget which) was examined by Canadians recently to understand why their public system works. They were asked questions regarding wait times and access to services. The people who did the study reported (verbally) that they were met with looks of confusion and responses such as "What do you mean wait times? Access? Of course they have access, there's no waiting, this is a health care facility!" And guess what the cost is....nothing (just taxes).
Why doesn't Canada's work?
Private health care is not necessarily the answer, just a better design to what used to work. Remember Europe's health care systems are older than ours and they are not bogged down by beurocracy and politics, their health care systems are sacred to them.
Griz1 said:
before I start laughing to the point of posibly breaking ribs, I will ask you - do you work in healthcare? Do you do business in Europe?
The rest of your post could be summarized by the words "government program"
bluepeter said:
Removing this restriction is not truly possible in an environment where the government is picking up the tab.
Similar threads
