Too high for too long, supraphysiological mini cycle

[Blumpkin pie]

I've been on TRT for a couple of years now, and have come to realize a few things. My journey started with 5 grams of androgel and some HCG, and ended up taking me from a total testosterone in the low hundreds to one hovering around 1,500 ng/dL. Now, you can imagine the kind of things this drastic spike did to my body. I was essentially starved of test for quite awhile, and I think that was my doctors reasoning for leaving me up there to cruise so high, at least at first. A few months passed and still no request to lower any of my dosages by my doctor. At this point I sure as hell wasn't going to argue. I had gained 40 lbs in five months, and was feeling like..well the shit.

Fastforward to six months later and I started to notice something was off. That incredible muscle tone I had developed over the past year was slowly fading. Only because I was still looking and feeling good, did I ignore what was happening. As weeks passed, I started to realize I was getting smaller, which was strange because the scales hadn't budged. I weighed the same but looked as though I had lost 15 lbs or so. I go in to see the doc and check how everything's looking lab wise. Test is still up there, 900 ng/dL and E2 is in check. I had heard that for some transdermals eventually stop absorbing correctly, something with the stratum corneum or epidermis thickening, but I never thought anything of it because of the results androgel was giving me.

As time went on I knew something was definitely up. I made the switch to injections, first at 120 mg every two weeks, a shitty protocol for sure. That obviously didn't work so I was bumped up to 200 mg a week and have been there ever since (keep in mind this is two years after starting a gel). Recently I've been searching for answers on why everything shifted.
I thought maybe it was a thyroid issue, despite never really losing any weight, I had lost muscle and hyperthyrodisim could possible account for that. T4 and TSH both came up completely normal..which put an end to that potential theory. I then considered the possibility that after that much time with supraphysiological testosterone levels, I had developed an androgen resistance, or down regulation. After reading into that, I discovered that the scientific verdict on androgen receptor down regulation is that it doesn't occur, rather up regulation seems more fitting for real world results.

So that leaves me to consider that something goes haywire when testosterone levels are left out of that normal window, and into the supraphysiological range for too long. I've had my liver checked out, ALT, AST, all the enzymes and everything in range, nothing going on there. I also read into a few articles that mentioned insulin resistance as a result of supraphysiological testosterone levels. Maybe that has something to do with the muscle loss? But then again I've also had a fasting bs done that came back 90 (70-110) which still shows a normal sensitivity, and along with that I've had random blood sugars done that come back in the 70's and 80's, non-diabetic for sure.

Now I'm left wondering if I should keep throwing gasoline on this fire by staying on 200 mg of cyp a week, or move it down to 100 and see if any of this resolves itself. Any thoughts, comments? I've included pictures of when things were working and currently. I know this is TRT talk, but its more of a cruise with no blast IMO. I guess it'd also be nice to hear from those guys who do blast and cruise, and see how they feel.
thanks

Before pictures below

 

[Blumpkin pie]

Me currently

 

[Blumpkin pie]

bump please

 

[rustilldown]

Maybe you need a new routine , you don't look out of shape by any means , what about diet training and also skin tone/ tan can be deceiving also. Just wondering cause if bloodwork shows everything is in check then I would assume the problem is elsewhere... Cortisol and stress levels? Just throwing ideas out there.


Ride it like you stole it!!

 

[Blumpkin pie]

Maybe you need a new routine , you don't look out of shape by any means , what about diet training and also skin tone/ tan can be deceiving also. Just wondering cause if bloodwork shows everything is in check then I would assume the problem is elsewhere... Cortisol and stress levels? Just throwing ideas out there.


Ride it like you stole it!!

First off, thank you for the input! lol I was waiting for awhile. And yes, I understand that those variables can all be factored into changes, and there were definately some distinct differences (the tan being a major one). I feel so much smaller though, like scared to wear t-shirts smaller..which could be some body dysmorphism..but I know there is a difference..I can even tell in my facial structure. My face has become thinner and less tone, strange as that sounds.
I'm not really stressed and I sleep like a baby every night. I mentioned my thyroid checked out and I'm clearly not diabetic. I thought about lowering the test dosage, but I can't see what difference that would make. I know my appetite is extremely diminished, but that's probably just from being on test so long it doesn't have that effect anymore. I still eat a lot, just not as enjoyable. Its really hard to pin it down to one thing.

 

[digit0x]

There are a lot of guys here that have been on HRT TRT. Just wait.

 

[rustilldown]

First off, thank you for the input! lol I was waiting for awhile. And yes, I understand that those variables can all be factored into changes, and there were definately some distinct differences (the tan being a major one). I feel so much smaller though, like scared to wear t-shirts smaller..which could be some body dysmorphism..but I know there is a difference..I can even tell in my facial structure. My face has become thinner and less tone, strange as that sounds.
I'm not really stressed and I sleep like a baby every night. I mentioned my thyroid checked out and I'm clearly not diabetic. I thought about lowering the test dosage, but I can't see what difference that would make. I know my appetite is extremely diminished, but that's probably just from being on test so long it doesn't have that effect anymore. I still eat a lot, just not as enjoyable. Its really hard to pin it down to one thing.

Yeah it's hard to say what it
Could be , I know stevemi is an expert in these areas maybe he will chime in here soon as I can only speculate. Do you notice anything else off such as sex drive or energy levels? What about gym performance?


Ride it like you stole it!!

 

[Blumpkin pie]

Yeah it's hard to say what it
Could be , I know stevemi is an expert in these areas maybe he will chime in here soon as I can only speculate. Do you notice anything else off such as sex drive or energy levels? What about gym performance?


Ride it like you stole it!!

Sex drive's there, but I don't get rock hard's like I did at first, but morning wood's still there. I can get it up for sex so I'm not concerned really. I know there is a sort of tolerance at least for the brain aspect of testosterone. I have fairly decent energy levels as well, never feel too fatigued to go on. I'm not as motivated in the gym, but that's just because I feel like its almost useless anymore. Its really hard anymore just because I feel like it doesn't pay off. I considered cycling just a little more test and some deca but I figured that wouldn't help much and I shouldn't mess with it. It could be a million things, but hopefully stevemi will lend me a hand in this.

 

[rustilldown]

Sex drive's there, but I don't get rock hard's like I did at first, but morning wood's still there. I can get it up for sex so I'm not concerned really. I know there is a sort of tolerance at least for the brain aspect of testosterone. I have fairly decent energy levels as well, never feel too fatigued to go on. I'm not as motivated in the gym, but that's just because I feel like its almost useless anymore. Its really hard anymore just because I feel like it doesn't pay off. I considered cycling just a little more test and some deca but I figured that wouldn't help much and I shouldn't mess with it. It could be a million things, but hopefully stevemi will lend me a hand in this.

Well I wouldn't use deca period but that's my opinion. A 19 nor could only complicate things more until you find out what's up. I'd suggest trying something to up your free test levels, such as proviron, masteron, winny or some tbol are all good candidates. You shouldn't always try to add more compounds to attempt at a solution but a little proviron wouldn't hurt as it is very mild and works awesome there are also some good over the counter boosters to help reduce sbhg and give more "free test" or "unbound" .. I'd look into that.


Ride it like you stole it!!

 

[Blumpkin pie]

Well I wouldn't use deca period but that's my opinion. A 19 nor could only complicate things more until you find out what's up. I'd suggest trying something to up your free test levels, such as proviron, masteron, winny or some tbol are all good candidates. You shouldn't always try to add more compounds to attempt at a solution but a little proviron wouldn't hurt as it is very mild and works awesome there are also some good over the counter boosters to help reduce sbhg and give more "free test" or "unbound" .. I'd look into that.


Ride it like you stole it!!

My free T came back 32 pg/mL range (9.3-26)
That seems fine, but you can never have too much free T eh? Can low SHBG cause problems?

 

[newtotheaasworld]

Add 200 mg/week of Tren Enth for a month run to your 200mg Test... You'll get your mojo back.
I do it once a year and have same hrt you have been on for same amt of time.
You'll love the results ! fat melts away and workouts jump 15% over your current max weight settings or plates.
It will rock your world!!!

 

[Blumpkin pie]

Add 200 mg/week of Tren Enth for a month run to your 200mg Test... You'll get your mojo back.
I do it once a year and have same hrt you have been on for same amt of time.
You'll love the results ! fat melts away and workouts jump 15% over your current max weight settings or plates.
It will rock your world!!!

You do it once a year and pretty well keep the gains? Have you noticed that 200 mg of test just doesn't really cut it if you want to get ripped? Also, does the tren help your appetite?

 

[stevesmi]

how old are you?

you look very young and raw like you don't work out in your 2nd pics, your first pics you look fit and tan.. try shaving your body and tanning and get a pump going and you will look better.. also you look more fatty in your 2nd pics.. did ur diet change? have you been lazier? ..

 

[Blumpkin pie]

how old are you?

you look very young and raw like you don't work out in your 2nd pics, your first pics you look fit and tan.. try shaving your body and tanning and get a pump going and you will look better.. also you look more fatty in your 2nd pics.. did ur diet change? have you been lazier? ..

I'm 20 and I do work out currently..lol. That's why it baffles me that it all came so easily then. This is what I've been doing for pretty much the past year and a half with some variation:

Day 1: Chest/shoulder day
Bench Press: 3 sets of 8-12 reps
Bench Flies: 3 sets of 8
Push-ups 3 sets of 25-50
Dips: 3 sets of 10-14
Tricep pulldowns (machine): 3 sets of 8-12
Skull crushers: 3 sets of 8-12 (Use a dumbell and lay on bench. Hold it with both hands and raise it over your head and back)
Military press 3 sets of 8-12


Day 2: Back and biceps
Hang clean: 3 sets of 8-12
Bent rows: 3 sets of 8-12
Deadlift: 2 sets of 8
Bicep curls: 3 sets of 8-12
Pull-ups: 3 sets of how ever many you can do
Rows (with machine): 3 sets of 8



Day 3: Legs and forearms
Squat: 3 sets of 8-12
Three way ankle: 3 sets of 8-12
Lunges: 3 sets of 8-12
Reverse curls: 3 sets of 8-12
Forearm pump: 3 sets of 8-12
Calf machine: 3 sets of 8-12
I do this every day of the week three day split, break over the weekend.
I could switch it up, but I don't really know how anymore lol. I made this as I went and it was working for a long time.

Stevemi, do you believe AR down regulation is possible? That's really what it seems has happened to me. I mean, same amount of testosterone but more fat and less muscle. I wouldn't consider myself lazy really, but its hard to get super motivated when you've shrunken down so much by doing everything they tell you too.

 

[Mekat]

Damn bro ur so fucking young, i cant even believe that ur doc put u on TRT, thats a real shame IMO, im sure there are plenty of natural ways u could have tried to bring ur test levels up..

..as far as ur situation goes, its basically like u were on cycle and then came off and lost ur gains... the point of TRT is to make u feel normal, coz ur suffering from a condition where ur body doesnt produce adequate amounts of test, not to feel extra normal.

now that ur test levels have gone down a bit, u feel its a lot harder to put on muscle like u were before, obviously... i just find it hard to believe that ur doc put u on trt at such a young age man

idk what to tell u, hopefully Steve can help u out with some type of solution

..also diet plays a big role in ur size, so u can post that up too if u want, maybe it'll be of some help

 

[RADAR]

I cannot believe your Dr Put you on HRT at such a young age, hell your body should be producing enough natural Test on it's own, besides 200mg of test a wk? Thats not HRT ,that a light mini cycle, I would lower the test to 100mg a wk or every other week and get some unleashed to run with it as it helps free up SHBG (sex hormone binding Globlin) May i ask what your test levels were that lead to you being put on HRT?

 

[stevesmi]

20 years old and on HRT> ridiculous. did u ever talk to your doc about what happens when day if you get sick of injecting yourself? RADAR is 60 years old and he still isn't even on HRT.

also at 20 years old obsessing over your body the way you are is flat out silly. i knew it looking at your pics you were raw looking, and i was right. you are too young to worry right now. it takes years and years to build up a base and solid frame. your body is still immature and young.

nobody at 20 has come close to their genetic potential.. NOBODY .. you don't even fully mature till well into your 20's.. some guys take longer even.. every single bodybuilder and lifter on here can put up a pic of what they looked like at 20 and it probably looks worse than when they were 17 and active in team sports in school.. and then today they look more solid as they have improved their diet and such. hell when i was 20 i was lucky to get the gym once or twice a week tops, and i ate too much fast food cause i had 2 jobs + college.

your diet is sloppy and your metabolism is slowing down as you get older, hence why you look more watery.. its as simple as that.. your workout split is good though.

you are playing around way too much with your hormones and your doctor should be taken out back and get the snot beat out of him for putting you on HRT as a teenager...
i would love to talk to your doctor personally and ask him what he was thinking

 

[Blumpkin pie]

Damn bro ur so fucking young, i cant even believe that ur doc put u on TRT, thats a real shame IMO, im sure there are plenty of natural ways u could have tried to bring ur test levels up..

..as far as ur situation goes, its basically like u were on cycle and then came off and lost ur gains... the point of TRT is to make u feel normal, coz ur suffering from a condition where ur body doesnt produce adequate amounts of test, not to feel extra normal.

now that ur test levels have gone down a bit, u feel its a lot harder to put on muscle like u were before, obviously... i just find it hard to believe that ur doc put u on trt at such a young age man

idk what to tell u, hopefully Steve can help u out with some type of solution

..also diet plays a big role in ur size, so u can post that up too if u want, maybe it'll be of some help

Its not that simple. I tried many separate restarts with the same doc, nothing worked. My natty T levels dropped after a harsh wrestling season where I cut waaaay too much weight. Restart's not happening unfortunately. And what you're saying about my testosterone dropping a little and me losing gains makes no sense due to the fact that my test levels never dropped, they are just as high, if not higher, than they were then. I know guys who are on TRT at 18, and its always dieting related. Starvation can shut you down hard.

 

[Blumpkin pie]

20 years old and on HRT> ridiculous. did u ever talk to your doc about what happens when day if you get sick of injecting yourself? RADAR is 60 years old and he still isn't even on HRT.

also at 20 years old obsessing over your body the way you are is flat out silly. i knew it looking at your pics you were raw looking, and i was right. you are too young to worry right now. it takes years and years to build up a base and solid frame. your body is still immature and young.

nobody at 20 has come close to their genetic potential.. NOBODY .. you don't even fully mature till well into your 20's.. some guys take longer even.. every single bodybuilder and lifter on here can put up a pic of what they looked like at 20 and it probably looks worse than when they were 17 and active in team sports in school.. and then today they look more solid as they have improved their diet and such. hell when i was 20 i was lucky to get the gym once or twice a week tops, and i ate too much fast food cause i had 2 jobs + college.

your diet is sloppy and your metabolism is slowing down as you get older, hence why you look more watery.. its as simple as that.. your workout split is good though.

you are playing around way too much with your hormones and your doctor should be taken out back and get the snot beat out of him for putting you on HRT as a teenager...
i would love to talk to your doctor personally and ask him what he was thinking

Refer to the previous response as to why I'm on, but it was either that or suffer with T in the low 100's for the rest of my life?

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ no idea man, i don't have your medical records in front of me to give an honest assessment.

i would like to see a full timeline of what you did to 'restart' things as you say. and your bloods as well.

i have seen way too many docs mis diagnose people.. depending on 1 doctor to make a huge decision like this is reckless thing.

what made you test your T levels anyway at such a young age?

 

[musclei]

Can't see your pictures but, from your description, I think I've had something similar happen to me and maybe I can help.

First I found out that my natural test levels where pretty high but you'd never tell because I didn't look like that was the case (neither my face or body), I didn't feel or act like I had high test, my results at the gym didn't show it... my first two cycles were a failure as well: I only got watery and couldn't hold whatever little gains I made.
Well, some called me crazy (maybe I am) but I decided to put me on blast and cruise.only after two cycles and having natural high testosterone and what do you know: I start making noticeable andkeepable gains on a cruise.
But would I be able to do a decent blast as well? Well yes and here's what's changed: now I make sure to add a source of DHT (like Masteron) with my cycle and it makes it all much better. No Mastering and it doesn't even feel like I'm on a cycle. And it doesn't even have to be a lot of it: 200mg do it for me. That's less than taking two pills of Proviron a day.
My theory is that some of us don't convert testosterone into DHT as efficiently as most, which I guess can be a blessing for certain things (you should see my hair) but we're missing out on a lot this way.
I say add some mast to your test or try cycling it or something but definitely not tren for this purpose.

 

[RADAR]

Yeah! Steve Thats what i asked previously, his body should be producing peak levels of test at that age, instead of putting you on HRT at such a young age that DR should be researching the cause of your problem not just patching it up.

 

[Blumpkin pie]

^^^ no idea man, i don't have your medical records in front of me to give an honest assessment.

i would like to see a full timeline of what you did to 'restart' things as you say. and your bloods as well.

i have seen way too many docs mis diagnose people.. depending on 1 doctor to make a huge decision like this is reckless thing.

what made you test your T levels anyway at such a young age?

After sophomore wrestling season I noticed I wasn't feeling right. I'd always been built but after cutting that season I couldn't gain a pound to save my life. I was always tired too. I started off at my family physician who did the full run up thyroid, comp met, etc and saw that there was essentially nothing wrong. He had a hunch though, so he tested my T. Sure enough it came back 100 something. At the time I had no fucking clue what the hell testosterone was, and why it mattered.

He felt overwhelmed so he sent me to a pediatric endocrinologist who told me to wait it out and things may return to normal. Two years pass..two years of fucking hell and no changes. I go back to the family physicican who refers me to the "prestigious" Mayo clinic where an endo tells me its still a waiting game. Keep in mind its been three years now. Finally I go to see my current doc, and this is also with other endos and docs in between. I saw him as my last ditch option, and it worked.

I still want answers though, and I'm told you're the one with them. Do you believe there is androgen receptor down regulation to some extent? That would make sense as to why the same amount of testotsterone that turned me into a beast is currently leaving me flabby and weak as shit.

 

[Blumpkin pie]

Can't see your pictures but, from your description, I think I've had something similar happen to me and maybe I can help.

First I found out that my natural test levels where pretty high but you'd never tell because I didn't look like that was the case (neither my face or body), I didn't feel or act like I had high test, my results at the gym didn't show it... my first two cycles were a failure as well: I only got watery and couldn't hold whatever little gains I made.
Well, some called me crazy (maybe I am) but I decided to put me on blast and cruise.only after two cycles and having natural high testosterone and what do you know: I start making noticeable andkeepable gains on a cruise.
But would I be able to do a decent blast as well? Well yes and here's what's changed: now I make sure to add a source of DHT (like Masteron) with my cycle and it makes it all much better. No Mastering and it doesn't even feel like I'm on a cycle. And it doesn't even have to be a lot of it: 200mg do it for me. That's less than taking two pills of Proviron a day.
My theory is that some of us don't convert testosterone into DHT as efficiently as most, which I guess can be a blessing for certain things (you should see my hair) but we're missing out on a lot this way.
I say add some mast to your test or try cycling it or something but definitely not tren for this purpose.

Now you're muscular and making gains? Are you saying DHT is anabolic? I always thought it was just androgenic..And are you on TRT or you just blast and cruise?

 

[Blumpkin pie]

Fuck fuck fuckity fuck, I think I know what's up.
My free T when I I first started androgel was 289 for what I'm assuming was measured in pg/mL.
Recently my free T came back 32, for what I know for a fact was measured in pg/mL because it had a range 9.3-26.5 picogram/mL....SO HOLY SHIT!! I had that much more free T then, assuming that that 289 is pg/mL. If its ng/dL its a whole different story. Does anyone know of a lab that does free T in ng/dL??

 

[RADAR]

There comes a time when the receptors become saturated and you're faced with dimishing returns after being on the same compound for an extended length of time, esp at the dosage you're running.you can lower the dosage to 100mg for every week or every 2 weeks for HRT or stop give your receptors a break and try running bridge in it's place for a while, Unleashed wold help free up SHBG(sex hormone binding globlin),HCGenerate added to the mix should have you feeling like your old self again. Thats my suggestion.

 

[rustilldown]

There comes a time when the receptors become saturated and you're faced with dimishing returns after being on the same compound for an extended length of time, esp at the dosage you're running.you can lower the dosage to 100mg for every week or every 2 weeks for HRT or stop give your receptors a break and try running bridge in it's place for a while, Unleashed wold help free up SHBG(sex hormone binding globlin),HCGenerate added to the mix should have you feeling like your old self again. Thats my suggestion.

This makes the most sense

 

[stevesmi]

After sophomore wrestling season I noticed I wasn't feeling right. I'd always been built but after cutting that season I couldn't gain a pound to save my life. I was always tired too. I started off at my family physician who did the full run up thyroid, comp met, etc and saw that there was essentially nothing wrong. He had a hunch though, so he tested my T. Sure enough it came back 100 something. At the time I had no fucking clue what the hell testosterone was, and why it mattered.

He felt overwhelmed so he sent me to a pediatric endocrinologist who told me to wait it out and things may return to normal. Two years pass..two years of fucking hell and no changes. I go back to the family physicican who refers me to the "prestigious" Mayo clinic where an endo tells me its still a waiting game. Keep in mind its been three years now. Finally I go to see my current doc, and this is also with other endos and docs in between. I saw him as my last ditch option, and it worked.

I still want answers though, and I'm told you're the one with them. Do you believe there is androgen receptor down regulation to some extent? That would make sense as to why the same amount of testotsterone that turned me into a beast is currently leaving me flabby and weak as shit.

no I do not.. re-read what i wrote earlier.. you are young, you still haven't developed yet into a man yet. if i can tell by a few pics that your muscle development is raw and not of a man then obviously that should be a red flag that you have a lot more hours to put in to the weight room before you even come close to your genetic potential.

i still am 100% against HRT for a 20 year old... you could be on non suppressive supplements at worst.. and even tried hcg/HMG PCT's to jumpstart things and see if your body reacts.

 

[Blumpkin pie]

no I do not.. re-read what i wrote earlier.. you are young, you still haven't developed yet into a man yet. if i can tell by a few pics that your muscle development is raw and not of a man then obviously that should be a red flag that you have a lot more hours to put in to the weight room before you even come close to your genetic potential.

i still am 100% against HRT for a 20 year old... you could be on non suppressive supplements at worst.. and even tried hcg/HMG PCT's to jumpstart things and see if your body reacts.

From what I understand, as was the case with me, restarts don't hold. I mean yeah there are some success stories, but for the most part it doesn't work out. If you don't believe in down regulation, do you believe what RADAR said is more logical?
How does lowering to 100 mg a week and trying to free up more free t sound?

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ didn't say i didn't believe in it..

i said thats not your issue.

and those problems you had are called being a teenager.. and i bet there are millions of teens that go through the same thing, the difference is they don't have a family doctor who scares/tricks them into going on HRT for life.

my first real gf dumped me and it broke my heart.. did i go on anti deppressants for the rest of my life because of it? did i slit my wrists and get put into a mental ward? NO.. i cried for a few days and got over it and focused on working and saving money for college. we've become a society dependent on drugs for every little emotional issue. lack of libido is EMOTIONAL, not physical. you will figure that out as you get older.. i know dudes who have been fucked over by women who haven't even touched their dicks in 10 years after their X wives divorced them and ass fucked them in court for all their money.. it happens. life isn't always great

anyway now you are realizing that HRT doesn't always make a difference (especially for a 20 year old!!), its not a magic formula that you were promised. if you are 55+ yes it will make a difference .. determining things on your total T is a huge mistake

 

[Blumpkin pie]

^^^ didn't say i didn't believe in it..

i said thats not your issue.

and those problems you had are called being a teenager.. and i bet there are millions of teens that go through the same thing, the difference is they don't have a family doctor who scares/tricks them into going on HRT for life.

my first real gf dumped me and it broke my heart.. did i go on anti deppressants for the rest of my life because of it? did i slit my wrists and get put into a mental ward? NO.. i cried for a few days and got over it and focused on working and saving money for college. we've become a society dependent on drugs for every little emotional issue. lack of libido is EMOTIONAL, not physical. you will figure that out as you get older.. i know dudes who have been fucked over by women who haven't even touched their dicks in 10 years after their X wives divorced them and ass fucked them in court for all their money.. it happens. life isn't always great

anyway now you are realizing that HRT doesn't always make a difference (especially for a 20 year old!!), its not a magic formula that you were promised. if you are 55+ yes it will make a difference .. determining things on your total T is a huge mistake

So you're saying it'd be completely fine to just allow my T levels to hover in the hundreds and to never mature or move on with my life? TRT has done a lot of good for me, regardless of what you want to believe. If AR down regulation is not my problem, my receptors aren't "clogged", and determing things off of total T is stupid, it leaves me to believe I should just lower the dose and try to free up some more testosterone by lowering SHBG?

 

[mryar]

I have heard a few stories of guys who run extended cycles and get diminished returns. Forget what studies I also saw it in, but for something like the first 90 days, IGF-1 receptors and androgen receptors get upregulated, but after 90 days (if i recall correctly) they start to return to baseline. Internal feedback loops are the cause

Check out this thread for a few anecdotal stories. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/what-point-your-diminishing-returns-733823.html

 

[stevesmi]

So you're saying it'd be completely fine to just allow my T levels to hover in the hundreds and to never mature or move on with my life? TRT has done a lot of good for me, regardless of what you want to believe. If AR down regulation is not my problem, my receptors aren't "clogged", and determing things off of total T is stupid, it leaves me to believe I should just lower the dose and try to free up some more testosterone by lowering SHBG?

i think you should have tried boosting your T levels naturally without suppressing them further.

I am against HRT 99% of the time.. but that is my opinion. some guys have one nut or have some kind of problem where they can't product test on their own and HRT is fine for them. you might be one of those people who knows.. again without your medical history in front of me i cannot comment further.

your issues are called being a teenager.. being young.. nowadays everyone has to be perfect so i can't fault you for doing what you are doing. heaven forbid people go through a rough patch in life without being put on a drug or put in a psyciatrict ward... the WWII generation saw their friends get their legs blown off in front of them or saw their family get murdered in front of their eyes and came out stronger.. your generation has a bad day and gets prescribed 3 different drugs and has to hire a life coach to get them through it. thats society i guess

 

[Blumpkin pie]

i think you should have tried boosting your T levels naturally without suppressing them further.

I am against HRT 99% of the time.. but that is my opinion. some guys have one nut or have some kind of problem where they can't product test on their own and HRT is fine for them. you might be one of those people who knows.. again without your medical history in front of me i cannot comment further.

your issues are called being a teenager.. being young.. nowadays everyone has to be perfect so i can't fault you for doing what you are doing. heaven forbid people go through a rough patch in life without being put on a drug or put in a psyciatrict ward... the WWII generation saw their friends get their legs blown off in front of them or saw their family get murdered in front of their eyes and came out stronger.. your generation has a bad day and gets prescribed 3 different drugs and has to hire a life coach to get them through it. thats society i guess

I've listed an overall summary of my medical history, including the trips to 7 different docs and endos along with the Mayo clinic. Its hypogonadtropic hypogonadism induced by dieting and over exertion. Both clomid and nolva restarts did not bring me back to good. You think I wanted to go on TRT? I did everything possible (hence the three years waiting) to avoid it. It was a last resort, and I'm sure you can appreciate at least that much. I didn't jump at the opportunity, and this is not something that's entirely mental, I know you know that so don't try and treat it as if I added TRT as something I considered as simple as an anti-depressent. I just want you to answer my questions as you would have if I said I was 40 rather than 20. You go off on a rant about being weak and giving into big pharma every time I ask something legitimate. I don't know if its that you don't have the answer for it, or you really just don't want to think hard enough, but I still haven't gotten anything from you besides the fact that my AR's aren't down regulated. I'm not pissed, and you're not being harsh. I understand that it is frowned upon, and there are other implications of me being on TRT, but if I have to do this I want to feel and look good.

 

[newtotheaasworld]

I HAD NO IDEA YOU WERE THIS YOUNG. I thought I was advising a guy around my age.
What you described as TRT was what I began when I was 46. I never did AAS prior to that.
I did the Androgel it was damn $$$ but insurance picked it up, then I had a new plan & it wasn't covered so I went to
weekly injectons of Test cyp or enth usually 1 ml per week it cost me $25/month while the gel was $300/month
The gel is worthless as rubbing in 50mg only gets you 5mg in your bloodstream which is a measly 35mg a week.
with a 1ml injection 250mg/ml of test + the esther gives you a nice ACTUAL 175mg a week
I just like to shake up the routine once a year and add 200mg of Tren Enth WHICH IS THE BEST TREN to take, for a month
the results are almost immediate and dramatic and it seems to reset the receptrs.
However, given your age I think you need a board certified endocrinologist

 

[Blumpkin pie]

I HAD NO IDEA YOU WERE THIS YOUNG. I thought I was advising a guy around my age.
What you described as TRT was what I began when I was 46. I never did AAS prior to that.
I did the Androgel it was damn $$$ but insurance picked it up, then I had a new plan & it wasn't covered so I went to
weekly injectons of Test cyp or enth usually 1 ml per week it cost me $25/month while the gel was $300/month
The gel is worthless as rubbing in 50mg only gets you 5mg in your bloodstream which is a measly 35mg a week.
with a 1ml injection 250mg/ml of test + the esther gives you a nice ACTUAL 175mg a week
I just like to shake up the routine once a year and add 200mg of Tren Enth WHICH IS THE BEST TREN to take, for a month
the results are almost immediate and dramatic and it seems to reset the receptrs.
However, given your age I think you need a board certified endocrinologist

Can no one read?? Scroll up and it will tell you I've been to multiple endo's and multiple docs, one endo at the Mayo clinic.

 

[musclei]

Aren't you guys done overreacting over the fact that he's young and on doctor prescribed TRT? We do bodybuilding and we mess with our hormones all the time. Some people, though, need these hormones because of health problems. Can't you just deal with it?
Even if he had chosen this treatment for himself (and he did not) its not like it was the weirdest or most extreme thing anyone of us has heard of.
I know I'm fairly new to the forum and this might raise some eyebrows but guys... GUYS!

 

[Mekat]

Overreacting? Hes 20 years old and hes on TRT, look at the change in his physice just from a couple of month or a year or whatever it was, what do u think is gonna happen in 10, 20, 30 years from now?? The issue here is that his docs are masking the problem with HRT instead of getting to the root of it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Blumpkin pie]

Aren't you guys done overreacting over the fact that he's young and on doctor prescribed TRT? We do bodybuilding and we mess with our hormones all the time. Some people, though, need these hormones because of health problems. Can't you just deal with it?
Even if he had chosen this treatment for himself (and he did not) its not like it was the weirdest or most extreme thing anyone of us has heard of.
I know I'm fairly new to the forum and this might raise some eyebrows but guys... GUYS!

Thank you! Now maybe I can get some answers.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ i answered your question like 4 times already.. but its not the answer you wanted to hear so you ignored it.

also you have to be 21+ to post on this forum..