To do, or not to do, the 5x5

[mm107]

Hey everyone, im trying to get this whole 5x5 plan down. I need a change of routine, my PR’s are not going up as quick as I want, They are going up, but its time for a switch in routine. Been doing my split for about 3 months now. Plus the 5x5 really allows plenty of time for cardio.

Ive been reading up on it, and will be going for MAX’s this week. Even tho I kinda already know them. I hope this 5x5 Kicks my ASS!

Im going to be starting the Single Factor 5x5. Unless otherwise directed.

Monday

Wednesday

Friday

With The days in between for Cardio. More Cardio needs to be done so I can loose more BF.

Is cardio a smart think on the 5x5 or do most use the 5x5 for a pure bulk?

Im going to either start it today, or next week. Looking for some pointers before I start!


Goals: Gain Lean Muscle while cutting down. Not a calorie deficit, a surpluss, but im hoping the cardio keeps my ass in check. I want to do the show next september and i need to improve my numbers. Plus all natural so its hard for me to back on tons of strenght quickly lol this is a nice progression i think should increase my max on my bench.

Im looking for a 50lb increase on my bench. Far out there, but anything is possible...



Im not used to having 4 days off/week anything else i can do? Biceps? Abs? Triceps? etc? i think i might have to have a "accesory" day for a mental backup.

Thanks for anyinput!

 

[djeclipse]

Go for the intermediate 5x5, do it as layed out on madcows website.

Add in chins on wed and 3 sets of bies and tries (as well as dips) on friday. like it says on the website.

Follow it to a T the first run though, give yourself that 4 weeks to build steam up to your maxes.

At first it won't seem like much at all the first few weeks, but once you start getting into your PR weeks and squatting 3x per week, dead lifting heavy, heavy rows etc. It will kick your ass.

Do cardio on the off days if you want but I wouldn't recommend adding in any extra lifting like you were thinking of. Trust the 5x5 and it will reward you for it.

I am doing cardio at least one day a week (playing soccer), sometimes 2 (either tues or thursday) and so far s good.

 

[BiggT]

On paper, as with any good routine, the 5x5 layout looks easy and like it won't be enough work due to the lack of useless fluff work......when you actually do it and experience the volume, you'll feel different about it.

Extra assistance work is okay, but you have to make sure it doesn't hurt the main lifts, for example, doing 20 sets of pushdowns and kickbacks (which make you sore, but aren't the best growth or strength stimulators) and then being too sore to up your pressing weights for 3 or 4 days.

I'd suggest following it to the "T" for the first 4 weeks and then evaluate your individual tolerances and see what you can add and when you can add it.

 

[xblitz44x]

Also, not to discourage you but I'm not sure how you're going to go about cutting fat while gaining muscle. If you eat above maintenance calories your body isn't going to have much reason to cut fat and if you eat above and do enough cardio to get below maintenance your body will see no reason to put on muscle. I think you're going to wind up spinning your wheels, to be honest with you.

But you may know some dieting secrets that will help you be the very small percentage of people ( who aren't beginners) who can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. I know I'd do one at a time, personally.

 

[djeclipse]

What if you eat below your maintenance levels but are still able to increase strength? Won't it burn some of that fat and give you muscle to adapt to the load you're putting on your body?

Or am I just way off here?

 

[The Shadow]

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98518&highlight=school





with a few testimonials...there are a TON more...just scattered on other threads:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138371&highlight=school[/QUOTE]

 

[The Shadow]

What if you eat below your maintenance levels but are still able to increase strength? Won't it burn some of that fat and give you muscle to adapt to the load you're putting on your body?

Or am I just way off here?

you can but not for long, a lot of initial strength gains is due to the CNS angle more than actual "strength"

 

[stilleto]

you're going to have a hard time losing weight and gaining that much on your bench. eat very lean- high protein.

 

[Cynical Simian]

you're going to have a hard time losing weight and gaining that much on your bench. eat very lean- high protein.

His phrasing of the goals was a bit odd, but he's not going to be losing weight - he said he'd have a caloric surplus.

mm107, like others have mentioned, you're not going to be able to significantly reduce your amount of bodyfat while hypercaloric, regardless of what partitioning methods you employ. But you might be able to end up with a body composition with which you're happier (i.e. same or only slightly higher BF% at a higher bodyweight). That's just my interpretation of your "goals" based on what you can realistically expect; correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[xblitz44x]

And that makes a lot of sense. His BF% could go down if he throws on some significant muscle and minimal fat. But I think he's going to have some trouble "cutting down" as he put it.

 

[mm107]

thanks for the good info guys, im going to follow it to a "t". im actually going to be running some ECA stack. So hopefully, i will gain some muscle and loose fat. I eat pretimed meals, so im perfectly in my ratios of 40/30/30 lately. Also eating before and after workouts, exact time on purpose. So hopefully my reading lately pays off with diet.

I can loose BF, While gaining muscle, i think somethings are custom to one's self and would like to defy the rules, eating perfectly timed meals i think really have a great effect.


Plus this ECA, speeds up metabolism 3% right? so i should never loose muscle but burn fat in the times when my meal calories arent so high, such as, second meal, but lunch and 4th meal, can be a sweet potoato, so i can store up my glycogen. then have enough energy for the workout, and later in the night feed myself some lean protein, chicken/tuna. and Peanut butter & Cassein for night snack(to make sleep more anabolic and save muscle) So i will be definately in a surplus, but only at the right preplanned meals. I HOPE LOL

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

EC or ECA isn't going to defy thermodynamics, my friend.

Best bet for losing fat and gaining muscle would be incredibly high test levels, coupled with a slow-bulk and something like HST (has worked for people before), or Lyle's UD2.0 Mass Gaining variant - something I'm going to be running soon.

You don't need to worry about going catabolic or being anabolic during sleep. It really doesn't make a big difference man. People got big before they ever start getting up at 3-4 AM to choke down food.

But good luck, the routine works wonderfully. Many of us have tried it. I vouch for it personally. Just stick to it for 2 months or more and you should see nice progress.

 

[carlsuen]

the first 4 weeks is always a breeze.. i'm into my 6th week now.. and i'm already feeling the volume and it is really kicking my ass.. literally..

 

[mm107]

looks like its big bulking time

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

looks like its big bulking time

Why is it always extremes with people?

I still say aim for a 0.8 to 1.0 pound gain per week. If you still look like you're getting too fat, then you likely have poor partitioning. In that case, try slowing it up a bit, deal with the fat gain, or resort to some of the other options.

Either way, good luck.

 

[blut wump]

The main thing to hold in mind with the 5x5 is that it's not about working particular sets of muscles. It's about working the compound exercises and aiming to add small amounts to the bar week after week for as long as you possibly can.

If you start to feel that the mirror is showing that something is lacking then add an assistance exercise for a while once or twice a week. That's fine so long as the assistance work doesn't take away from your ongoing progression in the compound lifts.

 

[mm107]

yea, some great advice here, anthrax, the only reason i say big bulker, is i will eat about 500 cals above maintance but clean, hopefully to keep bf the lowest.

i might start this routine next week, after i plug all my numbers in, i know on paper it might seem easy, but i know it will kick my ass

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

yea, some great advice here, anthrax, the only reason i say big bulker, is i will eat about 500 cals above maintance but clean, hopefully to keep bf the lowest.

i might start this routine next week, after i plug all my numbers in, i know on paper it might seem easy, but i know it will kick my ass

I used to think that way too, but this is something you need to trust me on, though it's hard to grasp at first. The quality of the food doesn't matter - just the quantity. If you eat 500 calories over maintenance in donuts, or 500 calories over maintenance in steak, you're still going to gain the same amount of weight. Calories are what matter. Of course, if you ate no protein at all (besides dying), you'd gain no lean mass, but we're not talking that extreme. If you eat your normal macros, enough protein to gain mass, and then you get some extra calories in (regardless of the source), those extra calories will cause you to gain weight.

That's the gist of it. Many find it hard to swallow, but it's the law of thermodynamics. Calories in vs. Calories out is what matters at the end of the day.

 

[mm107]

I used to think that way too, but this is something you need to trust me on, though it's hard to grasp at first. The quality of the food doesn't matter - just the quantity. If you eat 500 calories over maintenance in donuts, or 500 calories over maintenance in steak, you're still going to gain the same amount of weight. Calories are what matter. Of course, if you ate no protein at all (besides dying), you'd gain no lean mass, but we're not talking that extreme. If you eat your normal macros, enough protein to gain mass, and then you get some extra calories in (regardless of the source), those extra calories will cause you to gain weight.

That's the gist of it. Many find it hard to swallow, but it's the law of thermodynamics. Calories in vs. Calories out is what matters at the end of the day.

Very true, thanks anthrax, i do understand it was my brain fighting with the concept that I CAN DO ANYTHING lol Thanks guys, the 5x5 is what im going for!

 

[mm107]

Ok, guys Im starting the 5x5 today. Im starting on “Wednesday” On the 5x5 plan.


Monday’s Routine
Squat
5 x 116
5 x 145
5 x 174
5 x 203
5 x 232


Bench
5 x 98
5 x 123
5 x 147
5 x 172
5 x 196

Row
5 x 63
5 x 78
5 x 94
5 x 109
5 x 125

Assitance Work:
2 sets of weighted hypers
4 sets of weighted situps


Wednesday’s Routine
Squat:
5 x 116
5 x 145
5 x 174
5 x 174

Incline (dumbbell)
5 x 52
5 x 63
5 x 73
5 x 83

Deadlift
5 x 218
5 x 261
5 x 305
5 x 348

Assistance Work:
3 sets of Sit-ups

Instead of Doing weighted Situps, Like im supposed, to because I did them yesterday, im going to Do some Cardio(I hope) Or should I crush them again?


Friday’s Routine

Squat
5 x 116
5 x 145
5 x 174
5 x 203
3 x 238
8 x 174

Bench
5 x 98
5 x 123
5 x 147
5 x 172
3 x 201
8 x 147


Row
5 x 63
5 x 78
5 x 94
5 x 109
3 x 128
8 x 94

Assistance Work:
3 sets of weighted dips ( 5 – 8 rep range )
3 sets of Barbell Curls x 8 reps
3 sets of tricep extensions x 8

Now here is where I get curous, Im making this routine, basically cookie cutter from madcow’s template. Do I/Can I, do some more work, such as JM Presses, etc? I just feel that this 5x5 idea lacks, Shoulders, Triceps, Lats, ETC.

I know on paper it looks a lot easier then it really is. But I just don’t feel it really hits ALL muscles, someone PLEASE SHUT ME UP. And set me straight with the 5x5 plan.

Also, can I do any work, in place of the assistance work? If anyone wants to help me fine tune, the 5x5, please do so!! Im really looking for some help.

btw, im posting this as a new question as well, so disreguard the post if ya read this one, i figured people already read this one, so why re-read an old thread....

 

[studlife22]

just wondering what the address of madcows site is, i wouldn't mind taking a look

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm

 

[carlsuen]

mm107.. you've only started at week one.. it will be a breeze till week 3.. at week 4.. you'll dread to add anything else when you've start to hit some PR's.. this programme will get very demanding as it progresses.. so take it easy and don't be overzealous..

in any case, good luck..

 

[mm107]

yea carlsuen,

weeks 1-3 look very simple, thats why im pondering. It must be like the Deload phase, but i was tired by the last set of reps.

Ill stick with the program, so i hope to hit some good numbers =]