Tired of the typical BB programs,need something with results

[chevyman]

First of all hi to all.
I registered on this site after reading some of the great info posted here. It's very refreshing to finally find out that weight training isn't as complicated as the general BB community would have you think. I've really come to dislike the practice of some BB programs that say "if you don't follow this EXACT rep/set/excersize/and suppliment scheme you won't gain 7lbs of muscle in 7 days!!"

In reading here I have so far seen a simple,realistic,no bull attitude toward training,,,it's so simple it must work,right?

So, I'd like to ask a favor. I've read the stickys on Single factor & Dual Factor.I somewhat understand them but what I could really use is some help choosing what I need to accomplish my goals.

My 1st priority is to add some serious (at least for me) size overall before Sept 11th. I'd like to focus more on the "looks" (vain I know) untill then. Don't get me wrong, I want to make gains in strength as well(what's the point if you don't?) but as for making those huge record lifts,I'm not too conserned.Just well rounded athleticism. I'd like to train harder in the Winter as I have lots of spare time then.

Here's what you have to work with: 30yr old Male/5'9"/180lbs/ 15.5" arms/42"chest under arms/max bench 265ish/weak core. I have "worked out" steady for the last few months,and was in real good shape back in my 20's(who wasn't?) I must have good muscle memory because I saw rapid gains in size at first but now it's slowed. Now I tend to just show up at the gym and do whatever comes to me,,,I know,,I know.
So as you can see ,I need a complete workout layed out step by step to cover me till Sept. I will follow it to the "T" as I have no problems working out hard and pushing for a goal,but w/o a work out partner I need a detailed program to keep me motivated and on point.
I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have to help out in this regard.
Thanks in advace, chevyman

 

[Madcow2]

You can almost certainly get a lot of gains just from a basic program without the need to periodize. People often find that they are mistaken in their belief that they require a lot of isolation work to "lool good". As long as you don't eat like a slob you'll be fine. Hit this hard for a few months. Read the stickies on squatting, benching, and deadlifting in the Powerlifting forum here. And good luck!

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15

 

[rbtrout]

I'm in week 3 of the 5X5 training Madcow is talking about. Even with a shoulder that gives me problems, I've set personal bests on my bench and deads. This is a good routine to try.

 

[chevyman]

Thanks for the replies,

Madcow2, so you feel a "basic" program such as the one found here
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/s...74&postcount=15 is enough to get the results I'm looking for? If so I'm on board. I've started this program this week,but I didn't know you were supposed to increase the weight each set. I've been picking a weight that I could do all 5 sets with the last set of 5 being a real gut buster.

Is it ok to do that or must I always start light then increase till last set of 5?

I've had to do the squats on a smith(I know) because the only gym here has no squat rack. Same with the incline bench. Ok or is there a better option I'm unaware of?

I really need to do some rear delt and delt widening exercises as I'd like another 1/2" of width on each side... standing military?

One more thing. I tend to really hit a wall about the 20 min mark in this workout,is that normal? I've been resting 30-45 sec between sets. and about 2 min between exercises.
Thanks again

 

[pgsam]

only on the sets that are labelled as 1x5 require you to ramp up weight. 5x5 sets are 5x5 at the same weight... 1x5 should still be 5x5, but ramping up..i think lots of people made that mistake. and i think its time to join a new gym. theres got to be more than one gym in your area. militarys will hit your delts pretty hard, as well as the majority of the other exercises. just be patient with it, keep a log, and make sure youre moving up weight every week, and you WILL see results. i promise

 

[chevyman]

A log would help,,,is there a printable log of this workout somewhere ?

 

[Madcow2]

Chevyman - the link in question tells you how to handle to sets and you are supposed to be increasing them set to set. The novice version is different than the dual factor/periodized version and is more appropriate for someone who hasn't spent the past few years pounding hard. You'll likely make great gains for a while, level off, need to lay off for a bit, hit it hard again, and then maybe consider dual factor 6-12 months from now (and to be honest, if you are still making solid gains on this, don't try to fix what isn't broken).

 

[chevyman]

Sounds good.
Do you think the wallof exhaustion I hit while training is simply lack of conditioning ( hitting these big 3 compounds is tough!!)or am I not taking enough rest between sets?
Thanks again

 

[Madcow2]

Didn't even see your time between sets. For working sets on big exercises you'll need 2 minutes anywhere to 5 minutes. Normally I'll just say, "don't rush but don't be lazy," but with 30-45 secs between sets your frame of reference isn't typical.

 

[chevyman]

Madcow,

Did the wednesday workout today about 6am and took longer breaks between sets.. about 1-2 minutes. It helped alot.I was able to up the weight on the last set and didn't feel all shaking and completely exhausted afterwards.
I just read your reply of 2-5 minute rests,,I'll try that Friday,if todays change is any indication I'm going to be able to actually push hard by taking a more reasonable pace throughout.
I can say this, even after kind of haphazardly starting this program a week ago,and getting a better feel for it this week, I can tell a difference in overall strength feels like I can just "handle" the weights with more stability....

 

[Jim Ouini]

My Wed workouts during volume phase take me upward to 2hrs or so. I rest a lot between sets of Squats and Deads. Especially Wks 3 and 4.

I find Military Press really challenging so that takes awhile too.

Pullups go fast, although by the time these roll around my heart's not really in it.

 

[Madcow2]

Madcow,

Did the wednesday workout today about 6am and took longer breaks between sets.. about 1-2 minutes. It helped alot.I was able to up the weight on the last set and didn't feel all shaking and completely exhausted afterwards.
I just read your reply of 2-5 minute rests,,I'll try that Friday,if todays change is any indication I'm going to be able to actually push hard by taking a more reasonable pace throughout.
I can say this, even after kind of haphazardly starting this program a week ago,and getting a better feel for it this week, I can tell a difference in overall strength feels like I can just "handle" the weights with more stability....

Once you start handling heavy weight even 1-2 minutes is a break-neck pace. Hell, I honestly have no idea how you were managing these exercises with 45 seconds - your body probably had to shut down so you didn't kill yourself. Even light weight squats, cleans, and deads will get you breathing hard. The only time I ever take 45 seconds is on my last set of curls (which I don't put much faith in) with my wife screaming for me and my kid yelling.

 

[chevyman]

Madcow,
Man you arent kidding. I used to do circuit training, super sets,and some other bb type of programs, and never huff,puffed & sweat like I do on this one! The deads,& squats really suck you dry.

Jim,

Yea , the pull ups really showed me where my weak points are. Much better than machine pull downs.

 

[Kane Fan]

yah squats and deadlifts are difficult

 

[chevyman]

Once you start handling heavy weight even 1-2 minutes is a break-neck pace. Hell, I honestly have no idea how you were managing these exercises with 45 seconds - your body probably had to shut down so you didn't kill yourself. Even light weight squats, cleans, and deads will get you breathing hard. The only time I ever take 45 seconds is on my last set of curls (which I don't put much faith in) with my wife screaming for me and my kid yelling.

Yea, I've had to get the whole fast pace style workout outta my mind since starting these "core" movements. I've taken your advise on the longer rest periods as I simply couldn't recover on the Mon,Wed, Fri, sced.
Must say i love the squats,and deads,and BB Rows,,,,much better than the machine work I'm used to.

1 Question : I want to bulk from now until the 2nd week in August as I need to cut up by Sept 15th. Does this time frame on the bulk cycle AND the cut cycle seem do-able ?
Thanks

 

[Madcow2]

I wouldn't have a clue. Depends on how much fat you accrue, how much fat you have currently, how easy it is to lose, and how good you are at manipulating your body composition. I'd probably advise not putting on too much fat in the first place.

 

[chevyman]

I wouldn't have a clue. Depends on how much fat you accrue, how much fat you have currently, how easy it is to lose, and how good you are at manipulating your body composition. I'd probably advise not putting on too much fat in the first place.

After I posted my question I thought about the very things you've just mentioned.

1. I have no idea what body fat % I'm at now,but I can tell you I don't have a gut and you can almost make out my upper abs. Can pinch about 1" of fat right around that lower waist "pudge" area. But I have a decent amount of muscle to start with ,which I understand helps with burning fat??

2. I tend to lose fat fast. unfortunatly I tend to lose more muscle than I like along the way. need to counter act that this time around.

3. not good at manipulating body composition as I don't understand the science behind it. I thought I'd try to eat as much protein& carbs as needed while bulking and then cut the carbs while cutting.
Sound good?