Time to throw out Bill Starr's 5x5 routine - two.

[|D_J^B_J|]

Lonetree,

As above... Put up or shut up. Why don't you try the 5 x 5 program for yourself and see what results you get before flaming it.

Doing the single-factor (non-periodized) version, all of my lifts have gone up by an incredible amount - for example, I have increased my deadlift by 50kg in four months, my squat by 15kg in two months, and my bench by 10kg in four months.

Furthermore, I have added 8kg of mass in the space of four months while still staying relatively lean.

 

[Jim Ouini]

3-4 sets at 80% 1RM for 8-12 reps is pretty much what you see in most books for hypertrophy, so I'm not sure I'd hand over the Nobel prize to Fleck and Kraemer just yet

And Starr originally had 4 x 4-6 but he changed it to 5 x 5 for simplicity, so he might agree with you And he still kicks ass you should read his articles in MILO.

Anyway, I may have to check out F&K's book since I like to read.

 

[Guinness5.0]

So if I undersatand you lonetree you READ A BOOK and now you think you can throw out a time-proven program that puts tons of size/strength on intermediate lifters? C'mon, what kind of "research scientist" just pisses on something that nonchalantly?

Besides, you've got to consider CNS fatigue when you talk about failure. Hitting failure that often will result in the CNS recovering at a rate much slower than the rate at which muscles recover.

Your argument thus far is weak.

 

[LoneTree]

So if I undersatand you lonetree you READ A BOOK and now you think you can throw out a time-proven program that puts tons of size/strength on intermediate lifters? C'mon, what kind of "research scientist" just pisses on something that nonchalantly?

Besides, you've got to consider CNS fatigue when you talk about failure. Hitting failure that often will result in the CNS recovering at a rate much slower than the rate at which muscles recover.

Your argument thus far is weak.

Not 'a book', but a compilation of literally hundreds of scientific studies.
In medicine and science, there is no 'time honored' method. Our knowledge keeps on improving. George Washington's physician treated his CHF by 'time honored' method of bleeding a vein.
You think that someone's opinion from 1970's count more than all the available current research?
I woulc rather follow solid research than mumbo-jumbo.

 

[Fury20]

yeah. thats wonderful. but results are results. So they can blabble on and on about this that and the other, but point is people grow from the Starr 5x5. People GROW from DC, which is one set. And with the one set thing, the bigs guys growing from DC are advanced trainers. Dante, Inhuman, DAVE HENRY. results are results. So they can say "one set isnt enough...blah blah blah" BULLSHIT. results are results once again. People are growing from Starr's 5x5. Yet on paper it doesnt work? Research? good. But ACTUAL RESULTS WITH REAL TRAINEES, ESP. THE ADVANCED GUYs?? thats where its at. Scientists have said a lot about training, this works that doesnt.....on on on and on. But the fact is trainees are growing and getting stronger. BOTTOM LINE.

 

[LoneTree]

yeah. thats wonderful. but results are results. So they can blabble on and on about this that and the other, but point is people grow from the Starr 5x5. People GROW from DC, which is one set. And with the one set thing, the bigs guys growing from DC are advanced trainers. Dante, Inhuman, DAVE HENRY. results are results. So they can say "one set isnt enough...blah blah blah" BULLSHIT. results are results once again. People are growing from Starr's 5x5. Yet on paper it doesnt work? Research? good. But ACTUAL RESULTS WITH REAL TRAINEES, ESP. THE ADVANCED GUYs?? thats where its at. Scientists have said a lot about training, this works that doesnt.....on on on and on. But the fact is trainees are growing and getting stronger. BOTTOM LINE.

What I have described above is the position and recommendation of the American College of Sports Medicine about resistance training since 2002

 

[Guinness5.0]

Not 'a book', but a compilation of literally hundreds of scientific studies.
In medicine and science, there is no 'time honored' method. Our knowledge keeps on improving. George Washington's physician treated his CHF by 'time honored' method of bleeding a vein.
You think that someone's opinion from 1970's count more than all the available current research?
I woulc rather follow solid research than mumbo-jumbo.

I would rather follow something that works than something that doesn't.

 

[blut wump]

When a theory fails to account for empirical evidence you have two choices: ignore the data or change the theory.

Starr's 5x5 works as do DC (with cruising thrown in) and HST. Many other programs which advocate stopping short of failure also work. These are seen by the practitioners to be the best types of routines available.

You seem to be taking the 'ignore the data' route.

 

[hangclean]

You people think too hard when it comes to lifting weights. Find what works for your body and do it. Im not saying you shouldnt research different training methods, but come on get in the fucking gym and lift some weights.

 

[blut wump]

Good advice hangclean but, as you know, the best growing is done out of the gym in a reclining position. We're just chewing the fat while we get a little bigger or stronger. Some of us, anyway.