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There is NO majic "cutting gear"!

drgoodbody

drgoodbody

New member
Had someone PM recently asking about cutting gear - primo vs. winny vs. blah, blah which inspired (or more accurately frustrated) me into posting this thread.

WAKE UP NEWBIES - THERE IS NO MAJIC CUTTING GEAR!

Damn I hate it when people think that there is some majic gear out there that will help them get "cut-up" or "ripped"."Cutting" comes prinicipally from DIET and can be assisted with thermogenics and other fat loss aids (such as the new non-simulatory fat loss supplements). Cutting does NOT come from AAS use. Anabolics help you retain muscle (and may have a slight effect on increasing metabolism) while maintaining a calorie deficit.

Now, I agree that some AAS make you hold more water than others, but water is NOT FAT - so don't think that test enanthate or sustanon is bad for "cutting" because some dude says he got bloated on it. It's water not fat (and anti-e's along with mild OTC diuretics can usually get rid of/minimize the water bloat).

So you wanna cut? Get ripped to shreds? Its all about the diet brother - first and foremost.

Personally I can cut and drop fat on any gear, sust, prop, test e, winny, tren, primo, eq, dbol, drol, etc. - just by dropping calories and manipulating my macro-nutrient ratios (and maybe adding in some thermogenics if I want to kick it up).

DIET, DIET, DIET - it's one of the hardest things that people don't want hear.

DrG

PS: If my diet is for shit, it doesn't matter what type or how much activity I have, I stay fat - so don't give me the aerobics/no aerobics debate.
 
Good Post. I think that people consider AS to be a magical thing when it comes to working out also, Most people wouldn't gain significantly with or without juice. The misconception is that if I juice, then I'm gonna grow muscles no matter what. People just don't get it. THIS IS A LIFESTYLE, NOT A HOBBY. YOU CAN'T GROW IN 1 OR 2 WEEK SESSIONS WITH VACATION TIME IN BETWEEN. IT HAS TO BE TODAY, TOMMORROW, AND EVERY OTHER DAY. YOU HAVE TO BE TRUE TO THE DIET AND THE WORKOUTS.

- "That's all I have to say about that"
 
BigAndy69 said:
So what are you saying? Primo is better than winny for cutting? :)
Click to expand...

LOL! Yup, now you're gettin' it... ;)

Also - right on hvywghtchamp, whether bulking or cutting, that is it.

DrG
 
Anybody want to take bets on how long it'll be before a new post is up asking about a good "cutting cycle"?
 
Nelson Montana said:
Anybody want to take bets on how long it'll be before a new post is up asking about a good "cutting cycle"?
Click to expand...

Yeah, funny too that alot of the same gear gets recommended for cutting as it does for bulking. Hmmm.....maybe the key is in the size of the needle, 25 ga. for cutting and 22 ga. for bulking. :FRlol:
 
Nelson Montana said:
Anybody want to take bets on how long it'll be before a new post is up asking about a good "cutting cycle"?
Click to expand...

LOL! I'd guess 3 minutes, 48 seconds til the next "cutting cycle" thread...

Nelson - I haven't said it before, but I like your style.

DrG
 
I don't neccearily agree. Steriods which will easily convert to estrogen don't only cause bloat. Estrogen effected fat cells tend to release their fat slower then none estrogen effected fat cells. Maybe I'm making a jump here, but it would seem that increased estrogen levels will make fat loss more difficult. Sure you could use the usual suspects with some estro blocker like armidex to combat that effect, but it is an expensive alternative that the average user may not even be aware of.
 
the typical elitefitness member: 5'9'' 170lbs 18% bodyfat
typical cycle of elitefitness member claims to be:
1000mg Test weeks 1-10
400mg Deca weeks 1-10
800mg EQ weeks 1-10
50mg Dbol weeks 1-6
75mg Tren EOD weeks 6-12

after the cycle: 5'9'' 175lbs 20% bodayfat
 
Eviscerator - I agree. Tren to has some metabolic properties that don't seem well explained, but I have to say that it is great with regard to maintaining muscle on a big calorie deficit (It's just so damn anabolic).

Oxandrin - funny, I thought only I was on that cycle...j/k LOL!

DrG
 
Fina burns fat. Yes it does. YES IT DOES, lol. And high test doses supposedly do the same, as I've heard from those with that experience. I'm on 2 g's now but it's too early to tell at this point.
 
Wait a minute, are you trying to say that Winstrol won't turn my fat out of shape ass into the solo flex guy? What if I take more?
 
The fat burning properties of gear are somewhat overrated, diet is much better. (Tren and Ox seem to be fairly potent at lipolysis)

ANd yes, I agree that estrogen makes fat loss harder

It also thickens the skin so you may have a low BF% but without paper thin skin, you won't see the cuts. Any prolonged use of anti-A will make your skin thinner which is crucial.
 
E23 said:
2 grams of test and 8 mg of arimidex will get you cut up, by just sitting on your ass.
Click to expand...



That's a lot of fucking arimidex. 8 mg ed?
 
LOL

all gear do is prevent u from losing muscle/water

a magic cutting gear would something like

Tren/Winny Stack along with a Keto Diet High protein/moderate fat/low carb with 500-1000cals below maintenance.

cardio once a morning 20mins.


and finally ECA stack..

thats basically it
 
Tren has "unexplained" fat burning properties? I thought the vets on here already determined that it greatly elevates the production of several prostiglandins, including pgf2a? Pgf2a, at high concentrations is believed to be toxic to fat cells, and can cause cell death in adipose tissue.
 
superbigzane said:
yo bodybyfina

tren is suspected to activate PGF2.. but thats just a rumor
Click to expand...

Alot of steroids activate pgf2a, so why would it just be a rumor that tren does? It is rumored to do so at a much higher rate than other steroids. Let's see if we can get Fonz's input on this. Someone pop him a PM.
 
drgoodbody said:
Had someone PM recently asking about cutting gear - primo vs. winny vs. blah, blah which inspired (or more accurately frustrated) me into posting this thread.

WAKE UP NEWBIES - THERE IS NO MAJIC CUTTING GEAR!

Damn I hate it when people think that there is some majic gear out there that will help them get "cut-up" or "ripped"."Cutting" comes prinicipally from DIET and can be assisted with thermogenics and other fat loss aids (such as the new non-simulatory fat loss supplements). Cutting does NOT come from AAS use. Anabolics help you retain muscle (and may have a slight effect on increasing metabolism) while maintaining a calorie deficit.

Now, I agree that some AAS make you hold more water than others, but water is NOT FAT - so don't think that test enanthate or sustanon is bad for "cutting" because some dude says he got bloated on it. It's water not fat (and anti-e's along with mild OTC diuretics can usually get rid of/minimize the water bloat).

So you wanna cut? Get ripped to shreds? Its all about the diet brother - first and foremost.

Personally I can cut and drop fat on any gear, sust, prop, test e, winny, tren, primo, eq, dbol, drol, etc. - just by dropping calories and manipulating my macro-nutrient ratios (and maybe adding in some thermogenics if I want to kick it up).

DIET, DIET, DIET - it's one of the hardest things that people don't want hear.

DrG

PS: If my diet is for shit, it doesn't matter what type or how much activity I have, I stay fat - so don't give me the aerobics/no aerobics debate.
Click to expand...

Wrong on quite a few counts.

WHile its VERY true that diet is paramount and #1 on the list. Your choice of gear is very important when cutting.

- AAS that do not aromatize, and therefore do not increase estrogen levels, make it easier for you to lose fat.(This W/O the use of ancilliaries like A-dex, femara etc..) Also, as they don't aromatize, and increase estrogen...they do not increase water retention. This gives you the dry shredded look you want when you're on a cutting diet.

Oxandrolone, primobolan, Masteron, winstrol are prime examples of this.

Fina is in a different category than all of them, because I classify it as a fat-burning AAS. The science behind this is very difficult to explain, but its through its immense anti-glucocorticoid activity(i.e. anti-catabolic) and its thermogenic abilities(Through the prostaglandin system), that it achieves what no other AAS can do.
It spares muscle tissue, yet burns fat at the same time.

- On the other hand, AAS that do aromatize, and therfore increase estrogen, make it harder for you to lose fat in reference to those AAS that do not aromatize. They also leave you with an estrogen related bloat, which is not exactly desirable when you're on a cutting diet.

Testosterone, anadrol, and Methandrostenelone are prime examples of this.

The "in betweens".

Boldenone aromatizes into a very simple estrogen therfore its impact on estrogen is minimal. It can be incorporated into a cutting diet, as it increases RBC's and therfore vascularity, at the expense of having some bouts of hunger from time to time.
Its up to the individual user IMO.
Nandrolone aromatizes into estrogen but at a very small rate.
However, since nandrolone cross-reacts with the progesterone receptor, it increases glucose clearance and therfore in theory speeds up fat loss. Problem with nadrolone, is that some people hold water on it, which is not very desirable when cutting.

And I'm 100% against the use of any type of diuretics. They are EXTYREMELY dangerous when used improperly. You can screw up your electrolytic balance(Sodium-Potassium levels), and go from standing in a vertical position to an unconscious horizontal one in a matter of minutes, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Fonz
 
Fonz - you are right on some distorted points, and wrong on too many accounts... and I won't waste my time (like Nelson or others do) arguing with a twenty-something "Mr. Know-it-all"... Bro, you're a genius in your own mind... certainly not in mine. LMAO.

Look newbies, managing estrogen is certainly important, but non-aromatizing gear is not majic, it's not new, and it won't make you lean if your diet is shit, and you are hypercaloric.

Also Fonz, don't talk about diurectic use at all, pro or con, you don't know ANYTHING about the subject except what you've derived from some literature. I know it from a first hand experience.

DrG
 
drgoodbody said:
Also Fonz, don't talk about diurectic use at all, pro or con, you don't know ANYTHING about the subject except what you've derived from some literature. I know it from a first hand experience.
Click to expand...

Shows how much you know. Back when I was a senior in High School I used to wrestle competitively . And I did use diuretics to make weight.

Its people like you that always adopt the idiotic haphazard approach that gets people hurt, or even killed.

You have to understand HOW diuretics work before even attempting to use them.

You obviously don't have a clue.

Fonz
 
drgoodbody said:
Fonz - you are right on some distorted points, and wrong on too many accounts... and I won't waste my time (like Nelson or others do) arguing with a twenty-something "Mr. Know-it-all"... Bro, you're a genius in your own mind... certainly not in mine. LMAO.

Look newbies, managing estrogen is certainly important, but non-aromatizing gear is not majic, it's not new, and it won't make you lean if your diet is shit, and you are hypercaloric.

Also Fonz, don't talk about diurectic use at all, pro or con, you don't know ANYTHING about the subject except what you've derived from some literature. I know it from a first hand experience.

DrG
Click to expand...

Other than your difference of opinion on diurectics please show me where any of the information stated by Fonz in relation to non-aromatizing compounds is inaccurate.

BTW, any AAS could be used in a "cutting" cycle including Sust, D-bol, Anadrol, etc..

Here's a study for you numbnuts that conclusively proves that Anadrol reduces fat mass. Before taking a pop shot a Mod arm yourself with the facts before you end up looking like a JACKASS!

Effects of an oral androgen on muscle and metabolism in older, community-dwelling men.

Schroeder ET, Singh A, Bhasin S, Storer TW, Azen C, Davidson T, Martinez C, Sinha-Hikim I, Jaque SV, Terk M, Sattler FR.

Department of Medicine, Keck School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles 90033, USA.

To determine whether oxymetholone increases lean body mass (LBM) and skeletal muscle strength in older persons, 31 men 65-80 yr of age were randomized to placebo (group 1) or 50 mg (group 2) or 100 mg (group 3) daily for 12 wk. For the three groups, total LBM increased by 0.0 +/- 0.6, 3.3 +/- 1.2 (P < 0.001), and 4.2 +/- 2.4 kg (P < 0.001), respectively. Trunk fat decreased by 0.2 +/- 0.4, 1.7 +/- 1.0 (P = 0.018), and 2.2 +/- 0.9 kg (P = 0.005) in groups 1, 2, and 3, respectively. Relative increases in 1-repetition maximum (1-RM) strength for biaxial chest press of 8.2 +/- 9.2 and 13.9 +/- 8.1% in the two active treatment groups were significantly different from the change (-0.8 +/- 4.3%) for the placebo group (P < 0.03). For lat pull-down, 1-RM changed by -0.6 +/- 8.3, 8.8 +/- 15.1, and 18.4 +/- 21.0% for the groups, respectively (1-way ANOVA, P = 0.019). The pattern of changes among the groups for LBM and upper-body strength suggested that changes might be related to dose. Alanine aminotransferase increased by 72 +/- 67 U/l in group 3 (P < 0.001), and HDL-cholesterol decreased by -19 +/- 9 and -23 +/- 18 mg/dl in groups 2 and 3, respectively (P = 0.04 and P = 0.008). Thus oxymetholone improved LBM and maximal voluntary muscle strength and decreased fat mass in older men.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 12388137 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
Does Fonz being only twenty something make anything he says less valid? I wonder about that because too many "older" bros seem to bash him on his posts and all he does is state facts posted from well researched studies and periodicals. As far as i am concerned his info is one of the most valid on this board and based on more then just "personal" experience, but a lot of valid research as well.
 
gwl9dta4 said:
Does Fonz being only twenty something make anything he says less valid? I wonder about that because too many "older" bros seem to bash him on his posts and all he does is state facts posted from well researched studies and periodicals. As far as i am concerned his info is one of the most valid on this board and based on more then just "personal" experience, but a lot of valid research as well.
Click to expand...

If anything, the thread starter is looking pretty stupid.
 
Juice Authority said:


If anything, the thread starter is looking pretty stupid.
Click to expand...

Well, not everyone is as well read as others, nor do they have time to poor through peer review journals and look at research like some of us. On the other hand, if they know this, they should be careful in what they say. My father used to say, "Sometimes its better to sit silently and let people think you're a dumbass than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
 
R-ALA is good, though it's not gear. It's my favorite supplement.

On the surface it appears that AAS are for building muscle, but when you consider the thermogenic effects of tren and the estrogenic effects of hormones that aromatize, there's actually more to it than meets the eye.

Interesting.
 
Var and abdominal fat

there are plenty of solid controlled studies showing that anavar preferentially reduces abdominal & visceral fat way more than placebo and other gear. look it up.

and p.s. all the bro's who've done var and seen their 6pack for the first time in years will attest to this (me too).
 
Does it mean that it's also more effective for overall fat loss than other steroids or is it specific the the abomininal area?
 
some poeple wanna cut when they're not even big!! wierd get HUGE first than get bigger,than when u get 300lbs u might wanna cut before that not a good idea!
 
i think when people mean cutting gear, they are thinking of those that dont cause water retention. but anything can be used for cutting if your diet is in check with your training
 
robph said:
some poeple wanna cut when they're not even big!! wierd get HUGE first than get bigger,than when u get 300lbs u might wanna cut before that not a good idea!
Click to expand...

doubt many people are going to get to 300lbs unless they're going to be quite fat.. and most people don't want to be.

If that's your goal, then fine... doesn't mean it has to be everyones.
 
OXANDRIN said:
the typical elitefitness member: 5'9'' 170lbs 18% bodyfat
typical cycle of elitefitness member claims to be:
1000mg Test weeks 1-10
400mg Deca weeks 1-10
800mg EQ weeks 1-10
50mg Dbol weeks 1-6
75mg Tren EOD weeks 6-12

after the cycle: 5'9'' 175lbs 20% bodayfat
Click to expand...

lol
 
All AAS increase your metabolic rate, right? You know, more protein will by synthesized, more glucose will be diverted into muscle cells, etc...
 
I think one of the real points DrGB was trying to make is that steroids themselves aren't significant fat burners. Yes, I know alot of people consider Fina to have some magical fat-busting ability, although I'm not sold on it.
If someone were to take thryoxine, ECA or DNP without training (yes I know) they probably would lose weight. If someone were to shoot 500mg of anabolics and not train they likely would end up heavier. Of course aromatizing anabolics are going to distort definition. You can be 5% bodyfat and have water-distorted definition.
 
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