Theory...

[swordfish151]

ok for a first cycle you should take test right?..right! But here is my theory and my upcoming cycle...1st cycle ever

Cycle 250mgs of sustanon for 10wks (shooting every sunday)
PCT: HCG for 3 wks (500iu m/w/t) nolva 20mgs/day for 3 wks (and on hand during cycle in case of gyno)

Ok the theory...all other factors taken in such as proper rest, training balls to the wall and hitting 4000 cals a day....training is going to look like this:
Mon: Chest/Back
Tues: Cardio (30 min)
Wed: legs/shoulders
Thurs: Cardio (30 min)
Fri: Arms

I know some will say drop the cardio..it will hinder gains...right? But my theory is what if i did do the cardio while on? Wouldnt the cardio just lean me out?? Sustanon is a "bulker" right? I might not blow up like most with the cardio..but wouldnt i end up with more LBM? Your growing more muscle off the sustanon and with that comes burning more fat...im not using it as a cutter by any means..but cardio 3X or even 2X a day I think would be beneficial? correct me if im wrong...or if there is a process im not understanding?

 

[wesley90]

I think you should dedicate a day to legs...your legs are huge and deserve the attention...so my reccomendation is to do arms and shoulders on the same day.

 

[The Shadow]

do:

Mon - back
Tues - chest
WED - Legs
Thur - delts
Fri - arms

 

[swordfish151]

I think you guys are missing the point about the cardio? is my theory wrong..yeah and i was considering doing one body part a day and cardio in the am 3X a wk while on.

 

[Apexx]

cardio burns the calories that you may need to grow muscle. You're body doesn't just burn fat, it burns muscle too.
So yes, you are right, you will end up leaner. But at the expense of not gaining as much muscle as you could have.

 

[The Shadow]

I think you guys are missing the point about the cardio? is my theory wrong..yeah and i was considering doing one body part a day and cardio in the am 3X a wk while on.

Im not one to ASK about cardio......i stick to a pretty tight diet...i dont really get above 11-12%.



I dont prefer to "bulk" either - morelike controlled eating



you can cut on Sus btw - its ALL DIET dependent

 

[wesley90]

Well I think increased cardio helps...I am developing a theory that consists of eating moderate-large amounts of calories while still shedding fat. The key I believe is preventing the body from going into starvation mode, as thats when it starts storing fat and burning muscle.

 

[swordfish151]

cardio burns the calories that you may need to grow muscle. You're body doesn't just burn fat, it burns muscle too.
So yes, you are right, you will end up leaner. But at the expense of not gaining as much muscle as you could have.

I hear ya apexx...so instead of (hypothetical) 10lbs of LMB i end up with 5lbs of LBM but will you agree that the body compisition will still change and you could see a change...being that this would be my first cycle.

 

[swordfish151]

Well I think increased cardio helps...I am developing a theory that consists of eating moderate-large amounts of calories while still shedding fat. The key I believe is preventing the body from going into starvation mode, as thats when it starts storing fat and burning muscle.

thats interesting...expand on your theory

 

[hammertime30]

ok for a first cycle you should take test right?..right! But here is my theory and my upcoming cycle...1st cycle ever

Cycle 250mgs of sustanon for 10wks (shooting every sunday)
PCT: HCG for 3 wks (500iu m/w/t) nolva 20mgs/day for 3 wks (and on hand during cycle in case of gyno)

Ok the theory...all other factors taken in such as proper rest, training balls to the wall and hitting 4000 cals a day....training is going to look like this:
Mon: Chest/Back
Tues: Cardio (30 min)
Wed: legs/shoulders
Thurs: Cardio (30 min)
Fri: Arms

I know some will say drop the cardio..it will hinder gains...right? But my theory is what if i did do the cardio while on? Wouldnt the cardio just lean me out?? Sustanon is a "bulker" right? I might not blow up like most with the cardio..but wouldnt i end up with more LBM? Your growing more muscle off the sustanon and with that comes burning more fat...im not using it as a cutter by any means..but cardio 3X or even 2X a day I think would be beneficial? correct me if im wrong...or if there is a process im not understanding?

You body only grows when your calorie intake is above what you burn on a daily basis....you can not bulk and lean out at the same time (well you can but it's extremely difficult) being that in order for you to drop fat, you must drop your calorie intake below that of which you burn daily so that your body goes to it's reserves to burn for energy...........By the way....all steroids are bulkers if your calorie count is sufficient, they just put mass on you differently.....now if you are looking to drop bf% and increase muscle mass at the same time then you need to choose a steroid that is made just for that purpose.....Tren, masteron, winny, (high levels of test will aromatize thus cause water retention especially with a first timer because you will not know how to control this as well as an experienced user)....so no you will not lean out as much on Sus alone as you will if you drop Sus to a lower intake level and through in tren.......I understand that spring time is coming up and we all get the feeling of wanting to be massive and ripped in a short period of time, however my theory is to keep things simple or else you will be disappointed later....Either bulk or cut...don't try both at the same time.....you are not experience enough to pull it off.........If you want to shorten the time frame of seeing your results, go with short esters only instead and shorten your cycle schedule........One other thing...250mg a week of Sus only for 10 weeks won't do very much in terms of growth if anything at all....however it will help you to maintain muscle while cutting bf.....

 

[swordfish151]

You body only grows when your calorie intake is above what you burn on a daily basis....you can not bulk and lean out at the same time (well you can but it's extremely difficult) being that in order for you to drop fat, you must drop your calorie intake below that of which you burn daily so that your body goes to it's reserves to burn for energy...........By the way....all steroids are bulkers if your calorie count is sufficient, they just put mass on you differently.....now if you are looking to drop bf% and increase muscle mass at the same time then you need to choose a steroid that is made just for that purpose.....Tren, masteron, winny, (high levels of test will aromatize thus cause water retention especially with a first timer because you will not know how to control this as well as an experienced user)....so no you will not lean out as much on Sus alone as you will if you drop Sus to a lower intake level and through in tren.......I understand that spring time is coming up and we all get the feeling of wanting to be massive and ripped in a short period of time, however my theory is to keep things simple or else you will be disappointed later....Either bulk or cut...don't try both at the same time.....you are not experience enough to pull it off.........If you want to shorten the time frame of seeing your results, go with short esters only instead and shorten your cycle schedule........One other thing...250mg a week of Sus only for 10 weeks won't do very much in terms of growth if anything at all....however it will help you to maintain muscle while cutting bf.....

good post hammer...like i said its a theory...but i agree that its very difficult gaining mass and cutting at the same time...why would you say that 250mgs a wk i would not see "if anything at all" when it comes to gains? some might argue the point that because this is my first cycle that i wouldnt need to do 500mgs a wk...that i would grow just fine off of 250mgs? please clarify?

 

[wesley90]

thats interesting...expand on your theory

You still need to be in a calorie deficite...what you need to do in my theory is burn a high amount of cals...

 

[hammertime30]

good post hammer...like i said its a theory...but i agree that its very difficult gaining mass and cutting at the same time...why would you say that 250mgs a wk i would not see "if anything at all" when it comes to gains? some might argue the point that because this is my first cycle that i wouldnt need to do 500mgs a wk...that i would grow just fine off of 250mgs? please clarify?

Yes some will argue that point just like many will argue with me over the fact that I've yet to make a decent gain from test and yes it was very real.....You may be one of the lucky ones who is very sensitive to test and grow very well off 250mg, however, the percentage of you gaining 10lbs of LBM off only 250mg of Sus in 10 weeks is very low even if this is your first time.....You naturally produce about 100mg of test per week....so you will be only doubling your hormonal levels which isn't a big shock to the body.....now the biggest question is what is your body type... Ecto, meso, Endo??.....If you are a meso or endo then you can gain 10lbs of mass in 10 weeks off 250mg of test, but that's only because you are going to be pushing 4000 cals....If you are a endo, you may not want to push 4000 cals because you will gain bf....If you are an ecto then you will require much more and a lot less cardio in order to achieve the same gains........In other words, it's not as straight forward as it seems!! Yes AAS is the ultimate balancer, however it doesn't change our natural genetics....so no matter what, you have to go according to your body's type in order to achieve what ever goal you have set......

 

[The Shadow]

RoidCalculator Diagram viewing total roids in blood
Injects Day Total mg in blood/day
250mg(5) 1 238 mg
2 207 mg
3 180 mg
4 157 mg
5 136 mg
6 119 mg
7 103 mg
250mg(5) 8 327 mg
9 285 mg
10 248 mg
11 216 mg
12 188 mg
13 164 mg
14 143 mg
250mg(5) 15 362 mg
16 315 mg
17 274 mg
18 239 mg
19 208 mg
20 181 mg
21 157 mg
250mg(5) 22 375 mg
23 326 mg
24 284 mg
25 247 mg
26 215 mg
27 187 mg
28 163 mg
250mg(5) 29 379 mg
30 330 mg
31 288 mg
32 250 mg
33 218 mg
34 190 mg
35 165 mg
250mg(5) 36 381 mg
37 332 mg
38 289 mg
39 252 mg
40 219 mg
41 191 mg
42 166 mg
250mg(5) 43 382 mg
44 333 mg
45 289 mg
46 252 mg
47 219 mg
48 191 mg
49 166 mg
250mg(5) 50 382 mg
51 333 mg
52 290 mg
53 252 mg
54 220 mg
55 191 mg
56 166 mg





Ok - here ya go again.....250mg PER WEEK.......

looks like it tops out at less than 400 mg..on the day of each shot......reduce the frequency to every two weeks and it even less...THIS CHART GOES TO 8 WEEKS....DOESNT MATTER AS RESULTS ARE SAME






Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow
Here ya go:

DEPO-TESTOSTERONE CYPIONATE
Upjohn
Testosterone Cypionate
Androgen



Pharmacology: Qualitatively similar to testosterone and its esters in physiologic activity, testosterone cypionate has the advantage of prolonged effect. In hypogonadal males, the effect of a single injection of 200 to 400 mg of testosterone cypionate, was observed to be maintained for 2 to 4 weeks, which is 2 to 4 times longer than the effect produced by a comparable dose of testosterone propionate.




Here you go again:


Testosterone is more commonly given every two weeks, at doses of 200 mg to 400 mg with each dose. Thus, at 200 mg weekly, you are getting the equivalent of 400 mg every 2 weeks. While 200 mg twice weekly is generally an adequate dose to restore testosterone levels to normal in someone with insufficient testosterone production, the higher "supraphysiologic" dose is often given to people with muscle wasting. I am not aware of any evidence that the higher dose is associated with more side effects. Both doses are likely to suppress your body's own ability to manufacture testosterone.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

sust needs to be shot E3D your basically throwing out the prop ester..if you want once a week injects go with cyp..

the cardio wont kill you just dont overdue it..otherwise youll be burning too many cals to create new tissue..

the body responds best to things that are new..laying of the cardio wont hurt especially since your looking to gain..then once you come back to it it will be a new stimuli and produce better results

 

[swordfish151]

RoidCalculator Diagram viewing total roids in blood
Injects Day Total mg in blood/day
250mg(5) 1 238 mg
2 207 mg
3 180 mg
4 157 mg
5 136 mg
6 119 mg
7 103 mg
250mg(5) 8 327 mg
9 285 mg
10 248 mg
11 216 mg
12 188 mg
13 164 mg
14 143 mg
250mg(5) 15 362 mg
16 315 mg
17 274 mg
18 239 mg
19 208 mg
20 181 mg
21 157 mg
250mg(5) 22 375 mg
23 326 mg
24 284 mg
25 247 mg
26 215 mg
27 187 mg
28 163 mg
250mg(5) 29 379 mg
30 330 mg
31 288 mg
32 250 mg
33 218 mg
34 190 mg
35 165 mg
250mg(5) 36 381 mg
37 332 mg
38 289 mg
39 252 mg
40 219 mg
41 191 mg
42 166 mg
250mg(5) 43 382 mg
44 333 mg
45 289 mg
46 252 mg
47 219 mg
48 191 mg
49 166 mg
250mg(5) 50 382 mg
51 333 mg
52 290 mg
53 252 mg
54 220 mg
55 191 mg
56 166 mg





Ok - here ya go again.....250mg PER WEEK.......

looks like it tops out at less than 400 mg..on the day of each shot......reduce the frequency to every two weeks and it even less...THIS CHART GOES TO 8 WEEKS....DOESNT MATTER AS RESULTS ARE SAME






Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow
Here ya go:

DEPO-TESTOSTERONE CYPIONATE
Upjohn
Testosterone Cypionate
Androgen



Pharmacology: Qualitatively similar to testosterone and its esters in physiologic activity, testosterone cypionate has the advantage of prolonged effect. In hypogonadal males, the effect of a single injection of 200 to 400 mg of testosterone cypionate, was observed to be maintained for 2 to 4 weeks, which is 2 to 4 times longer than the effect produced by a comparable dose of testosterone propionate.




Here you go again:


Testosterone is more commonly given every two weeks, at doses of 200 mg to 400 mg with each dose. Thus, at 200 mg weekly, you are getting the equivalent of 400 mg every 2 weeks. While 200 mg twice weekly is generally an adequate dose to restore testosterone levels to normal in someone with insufficient testosterone production, the higher "supraphysiologic" dose is often given to people with muscle wasting. I am not aware of any evidence that the higher dose is associated with more side effects. Both doses are likely to suppress your body's own ability to manufacture testosterone.

ok ok..im ignorant..in english please....meaning are you saying that a single injection of 250mgs a wk is fine...???

 

[swordfish151]

Yes some will argue that point just like many will argue with me over the fact that I've yet to make a decent gain from test and yes it was very real.....You may be one of the lucky ones who is very sensitive to test and grow very well off 250mg, however, the percentage of you gaining 10lbs of LBM off only 250mg of Sus in 10 weeks is very low even if this is your first time.....You naturally produce about 100mg of test per week....so you will be only doubling your hormonal levels which isn't a big shock to the body.....now the biggest question is what is your body type... Ecto, meso, Endo??.....If you are a meso or endo then you can gain 10lbs of mass in 10 weeks off 250mg of test, but that's only because you are going to be pushing 4000 cals....If you are a endo, you may not want to push 4000 cals because you will gain bf....If you are an ecto then you will require much more and a lot less cardio in order to achieve the same gains........In other words, it's not as straight forward as it seems!! Yes AAS is the ultimate balancer, however it doesn't change our natural genetics....so no matter what, you have to go according to your body's type in order to achieve what ever goal you have set......

how can i find out what body type i am (accuratly)

 

[hammertime30]

how can i find out what body type i am (accuratly)

Are you a hard gaining? Do you naturally carry low bf?? Can you eat like a hog and not gain a pound? Do you have a long slender build? Do you have relatively small joints and a small frame? If so, you are more likely to be an ecto.....Mesos are naturally muscular, thicker joints, can build muscle pretty rapidly, have a more curvy body frame...Can eat pretty well without carry high bf, however can also put on bf if eating high fatty foods.....Endos naturally have weight problems, they carry higher body fat and can gain weight very rapidly. They usually carry the bulky frame as opposed to a muscular frame. They have more of the rounder body frame and hold weight in the lower region.

 

[swordfish151]

Are you a hard gaining? Do you naturally carry low bf?? Can you eat like a hog and not gain a pound? Do you have a long slender build? Do you have relatively small joints and a small frame? If so, you are more likely to be an ecto.....Mesos are naturally muscular, thicker joints, can build muscle pretty rapidly, have a more curvy body frame...Can eat pretty well without carry high bf, however can also put on bf if eating high fatty foods.....Endos naturally have weight problems, they carry higher body fat and can gain weight very rapidly. They usually carry the bulky frame as opposed to a muscular frame. They have more of the rounder body frame and hold weight in the lower region.

hmm well all of my childhood i had a hight BF...yet...when people look at me know..or when i look at myself i tend to look alot more muscular..my build that is..always had a broad chest and shoulders...very broad..very muscular legs..but problem area has "always" been the midsection..never have really gotten rid of it..i mean i dieted once to 155lbs!! ideal wieght i guess..and i still had chubb...i can gain weight (eating fatty foods) very easily..BF that is...so its sounds like i might be a endo...but i dont carry a bulky frame...even in high school although having high bf i still "looked" like i had a muscular frame???

 

[The Shadow]

ok ok..im ignorant..in english please....meaning are you saying that a single injection of 250mgs a wk is fine...???

imo - no - its not.



there are the blood concentrations to support that opinion

 

[swordfish151]

imo - no - its not.



there are the blood concentrations to support that opinion

im sorry shadow..im soooo trying to comprehend this..not saying your wrong..but trying to understand...better yet..do you think im better off, first cycle 500mgs/wk?

 

[The Shadow]

im sorry shadow..im soooo trying to comprehend this..not saying your wrong..but trying to understand...better yet..do you think im better off, first cycle 500mgs/wk?

yes.....I do.


200-250 mg will only build to a max concentration of just under 400 mg at its peak...that willmost likely land you in the upper normalend of the sprectrum


better yest is to do smaller amount of test and a CLASS I compiound with it

 

[mr.cuts]

yes.....I do.


200-250 mg will only build to a max concentration of just under 400 mg at its peak...that willmost likely land you in the upper normalend of the sprectrum


better yest is to do smaller amount of test and a CLASS I compiound with it

swordfish, please don't listen to this guy. You can make decent gains on 250mg of test per week. End of discussion.

 

[The Shadow]

swordfish, please don't listen to this guy. You can make decent gains on 250mg of test per week. End of discussion.

True....


He should do dome research....

better yet post a poll about 2500 mg vs 500 mg and see.




Oh yeah - post one and ask if MR. Cuts is trying to be this big of a Nancy Boy or does it just come naturally.

 

[swordfish151]

yes.....I do.


200-250 mg will only build to a max concentration of just under 400 mg at its peak...that willmost likely land you in the upper normalend of the sprectrum


better yest is to do smaller amount of test and a CLASS I compiound with it

but like hammertime said..if im an endo would i still benefit from 500mgs a wk and not attract a higher bf? i know that this is my first cycle and it probably wont turn out the way im thinking (in my head) but i just want to get all my ducks in a row you know....make sure i "completely" understand the concepts...

 

[The Shadow]

but like hammertime said..if im an endo would i still benefit from 500mgs a wk and not attract a higher bf? i know that this is my first cycle and it probably wont turn out the way im thinking (in my head) but i just want to get all my ducks in a row you know....make sure i "completely" understand the concepts...

watch the type pf cals and add soem ldex...you should be fine

 

[hammertime30]

the bottom line is bro....There is nothing wrong with 250mg of test a week if you have the body type for it.....However, all I'm stating is that there is a lot more to it than just injecting some extra test into your blood stream and waiting to grow....Food, exercise regimen, genetics, rest, type of goals; all play a major part in the equation when deciding on your cycle.....you must learn your body and find what works best for it, but the first part is knowing your body in and out without the AAS before you can understand how AAS can help..............Me for example, I'm a hardgainer, I can eat just about anything and not gain a pound....I naturally don't hold high bf and can shed 2% off my bf in about 4 weeks with just dropping one meal a day....If I intake 3g of salt a day I will hold a little water in my stomach region, but if I drop it to 2g grams that water will drop off in about 1 week...........I have to fight hard for every pound I get....I'm naturally vascular and can rip up rapidly, but bulk is a dog fight so as you can see I'm pure Ectomorph and have been skinny all my life until now .... I've tried test only up to 600mg a week and gained very little at 4500 cals a day.............I've tried dbol 25mg/d, test 400mg/wk and EQ 600mg/wk and managed to gain 13lbs in 12 weeks, but lost 5 when I can off (again water)......but the ultimate cycle thus far has been tren 300mg/wk, test 200mg/wk and winny 50mg/d where I went up 6lbs on the scale and dropped 3% bf at the same time while intaking only 3600 cals.....but this time I decided not to come off but rather after the 6 weeks just went straight to test only at 125mg per week for 6 weeks and now I'm going back to the next tren cycle.....The entire time I've been taking HCG at 250iu e4d and balls been looking nice and full.............So again many will attack not coming completely off, but I've found that it's more torture on my body coming completely off instead of just staying on at a low dosage and it's working for me and that's all that matters...........I'm currently 5'9 185lbs at 8% bf.......I started almost 2 years ago at 153lbs at 11% bf.....my goal is 195lbs at 7-8% bf..................Once I hit that then I will decide if I want to go heavier, but 195 sounds good enough right now........

 

[swordfish151]

the bottom line is bro....There is nothing wrong with 250mg of test a week if you have the body type for it.....However, all I'm stating is that there is a lot more to it than just injecting some extra test into your blood stream and waiting to grow....Food, exercise regimen, genetics, rest, type of goals; all play a major part in the equation when deciding on your cycle.....you must learn your body and find what works best for it, but the first part is knowing your body in and out without the AAS before you can understand how AAS can help..............Me for example, I'm a hardgainer, I can eat just about anything and not gain a pound....I naturally don't hold high bf and can shed 2% off my bf in about 4 weeks with just dropping one meal a day....If I intake 3g of salt a day I will hold a little water in my stomach region, but if I drop it to 2g grams that water will drop off in about 1 week...........I have to fight hard for every pound I get....I'm naturally vascular and can rip up rapidly, but bulk is a dog fight so as you can see I'm pure Ectomorph and have been skinny all my life until now .... I've tried test only up to 600mg a week and gained very little at 4500 cals a day.............I've tried dbol 25mg/d, test 400mg/wk and EQ 600mg/wk and managed to gain 13lbs in 12 weeks, but lost 5 when I can off (again water)......but the ultimate cycle thus far has been tren 300mg/wk, test 200mg/wk and winny 50mg/d where I went up 6lbs on the scale and dropped 3% bf at the same time while intaking only 3600 cals.....but this time I decided not to come off but rather after the 6 weeks just went straight to test only at 125mg per week for 6 weeks and now I'm going back to the next tren cycle.....The entire time I've been taking HCG at 250iu e4d and balls been looking nice and full.............So again many will attack not coming completely off, but I've found that it's more torture on my body coming completely off instead of just staying on at a low dosage and it's working for me and that's all that matters...........I'm currently 5'9 185lbs at 8% bf.......I started almost 2 years ago at 153lbs at 11% bf.....my goal is 195lbs at 7-8% bf..................Once I hit that then I will decide if I want to go heavier, but 195 sounds good enough right now........

Thanks for the great information hammertime and you too shadow!

 

[pudding]

do:

Mon - back
Tues - chest
WED - Legs
Thur - delts
Fri - arms

Would you like to share this routine in a little more detail with us?

 

[The Shadow]

Would you like to share this routine in a little more detail with us?

pretty basic:

typically pyramid up on the compound movements 15-6 reps
isolation(non-compound) get 8-10 reps


...all sets with a 6 second TUT for each set


I also try to work a POF angle as well:

Midrange(compound)

Stretch and contracted(siolations)



12-15 sets tops.....



Im in and out in 30-45 minutes