the winds of change....

[IrishPower]

Every once in awhile, I spend some time analyzing my journals and trying to figure out what is working and where I am having problems.

The main area is my bench press. Early on in my Powerlifting career, I hit a 573 bench at 308lbs. Many years later, I hit a 580@275. A few years after that I ruptured my pec.

Since my surgery, I have vowed to be smart and to not get caught in the spiral of mediocrity that plagued my lifting. I also would do what I could to minimize overtraining.

Well, after analysis of my journal and consulting some really good lifters, I am going to move *off* the westside bench training program. I have been so close to a 600 lb press so many times in a meet, I can't count em anymore.

For those that are interested in what I have decided to do, you can look at the "Conversation with Vince Dicenzo" located on the front page of

http://www.growordie.com

With less than 6 weeks away from my next meet, I am more determined than ever to shatter 600 on the bench press.

/irish

 

[spatts]

Best of luck to you, Irish. Do whatever it takes.

 

[Deciever1]

good luck with your new training.. sounds like it could work. let us know how it goes.

700+ benchers are cool.. i talked to a 800/(almost)700/660 guy the other day ... really nice.

so you will now be doing shirt work everyweek? wont that stretch the shirt over time too much?

 

[spatts]

...out of curiosity, after reading your conversation, I was wondering if you ever use chains for speed? I too have a stronger lockout, and weaker shoulders (due to injury), and I CAN'T make bench progress if I bombard the lower portions of my bench with bands. The shoulder just can't handle it yet. However, if I use chains, I don't need as much stabilization, and I can take advatage of accomodating resistance/speed work, without have to ice my shoulder and risk progress.

I'm sure at your advanced level, you have already tried or considered this, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[IrishPower]

Spatts:

yes... actually the previous two weeks i used chains for speed and my shoulder has healed up. I really like those better than bands.

I have 3 problems.
1. cant get a shirt to work in a meet
2. havent pushed enough weight raw to gain confidence since tear
3. training bench 2x per week causes me to be sore constantly

I *DO* like the chains. In the 'off' season, I will probably go back to speed with lots of chains alternated with this shirt work every other week. I am not sure if I mentioned that in the article, but Vince mentions that he drops down to alternating workouts as well in the off season.

Thanks for the suggestion. No matter how *advanced* someone thinks they are, there is always room for improvement.

By the way, I am going to open 600 at the meet


Deceiver: actually, if you have the right shirt, and know how to pull it down properly for your big attempts, you don't need it ultra tight. that is what i hear anyway.

 

[Jagermeister]

Irishpower,
good luck with your training

Question:
what has Vince Dicenzo hit in a meet? 700?


Jager

 

[IrishPower]

700 at least once... i saw the write up in monster muscle. i think he may have done it since. everyone is expecting big things from him soon!

what a good guy!

/irish

 

[musc2002pa]

Spatts, what kind of work are you doing for your rotator cuffs?
You mentioned you had a shoulder injury, what kind? I have a detached supraspinatus on my right shoulder. I have struggled and struggled, and my bench gains were minimal. After looking at how I was missing lifts, I came to the conclusion my right shoulder was very unstable during max lifts.

So basically now for the past 4 weeks, I train my rotators vigorously. 4x a week. On my bench days, I do 4 exercises for 2-3 sets each. On leg days, I do i exercise for 2-3 sets. My ME bench PRs are being broke by 40-60#s now.

I actually find it easier to stabalize with bands and less with the chains. The bands to pull you around a bit, but are easier to correct. TO me, if the chain sways a little bit...its harder to correct. Its still worth a try to experiment with them.

chad
carolinapower.net

 

[spatts]

Chad, I wrecked my cuffs benching out wide like a BB. When I switched to PL style benching, and started rehabbing the cuffs, my bench came up fast. I went to the doc to confirm that it was just muscle weakness in the infraspinatus and surrounding muscles. Then I started doing daily AR with bands for it, along with EOD special exercises at light weight. It's been about 6-8 weeks now that I've been working without any shoulder pain. They're still "repairing" as far as I'm concerned, but they've come a long way. Just this week, I've decided to start adding in more bench specific front delt work, to take the rehab to the next level.

As far as exercises, there is a site with some pics of the ones I do. I'm afraid my verbal description would border on humor. I'll hunt the pics down for you.

 

[quest]

Irish.. this is just an observation. i have looked at and read your site.. GREAT SITE
(thanks for all the time and effort you have put into it so others can learn from it)
But i notice that you are the top dog in your gym.. the other guys, as strong as they are aren't were u are at.. didn't Dave Tate right an article once were he said that inorder to bench 600 700 you have to train with guys that have already been there and done that.. you teach everyone me included to try and progress to your level but who do you train with or learn from to allow you to train at there level..I guess the article you did with Vince brought that to lite. for me anyway..

Quest

 

[powerlifterjay]

Good luck with it Irish. I hope its the key to yoru benching. I told Jimmie Dean that , that style of benching was next for us to try. I do wanna talk to you on the phone about it. I got guestions for you. Later bro

 

[Imnotdutch]

Good luck with it Irish. Sounds like you are fired up and you are gonna make this work.

It was interesting to see the Vince includes raw bench in his training.

Spatts,

You said you used to bench wide like a bodybuilder (or something similar). I know that you now bench with a wide grip. Could you describe the difference between your current wide bench and what you did previously? Figured it would be good for beginners to read..........

 

[spatts]

Sure. When I went wide before, my grip was NOT as wide as it is now, and the bar descended to the upper chest, elbows remaining wide and under the bar.

Now, my grip is wider, but I bench DOWN to the sternum (not OUT to the chest).

In one case I lowered the bar with my elbows wide, in the other case, only my GRIP is wide.

 

[musc2002pa]

Spatts
I have thought about doing a little something for the rotators everyday. I have gotten lots of conflicting info about how often to train them. I guess is all trial and error.

chad
carolinapower.net

 

[spatts]

Two of my days are active recovery with bands...not really "training." The other two ARE light-moderate cuff specific moves.

 

[musc2002pa]

Spatts
Ok, thats sort of what I do. Sunday/Wednesday I will train the rotators with 3-4 exercises. Monday/Friday i do one exercise, without straining much.....just for recovery. Seems to be helping.

Do you have the book The 7 Minute Rotator Cuff? I have been trying to find it, but its out of print.

chad
carolinapower.net

 

[spatts]

A little illustration of BB bench vs PL bench. BB has no leg drive, no tuck, out wide, etc...all designed to isolate the pecs. The PL bench involves very little pec. It descends to the sternum, and uses the tris/lats/shoulders to move it. Shoulder blades together, heels driving the upper body into the bench.

http://www.asylum-strength.com/videos/benchcompare.mpg

Notice, the grip doesn't change. "Wide" refers to the elbows.