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The Waxy Maize Starch Thread

SouthernLord

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There have been a lot of questions regarding WMS. This should clear up some of the confusion...

From TP.com

Waxy Maize Starch is derived from natural corn starch and is a food grade modified starch. It is very bland in flavor and has a white fluffy like consistency. We recommend using a shaker or a blender (this is best) to mix this product. Immediate use is recommended as it has a tendency to clump. We have gone through great lengths testing and tweaking our Waxy Maize Starch to be palatable. We have found one that tastes fairly well and functionality wise it is top of the line.

So what’s so special with Waxy Maize in comparison to dextrose or maltodextrin? Many people have used a mix of dextrose and maltodextrin for post workout nutrition for years because it works and is vital for proper glycogen replenishment. Welcome to the new era of post workout nutrition… Waxy Maize Starch. WMS has a much higher molecular weight and a much lower osmolarity rate compared to dextrose or maltodextrin, so what does this mean… Mainly, WMS bypasses the stomach, is absorbed by the intestines and immediately is assimilated; this is all done at a much faster rate than dextrose or maltodextrin, almost double.

WMS can help the absorption rates of many of your favorite supplements like creatine monohydrate, creatine ethyl ester, cell volumization and nitric oxide type supplements, etc. Nutrients like this often times are left in the stomachs harsh acidic environment and degrade absorption rates. WMS helps shuttle these nutrients to bypass the stomach and allow the body to assimilate these nutrients at a much higher rate.

WMS has the ability to replenish the body’s glycogen stores much faster than a mix of maltodextrin or dextrose. This is accomplished again by WMS’s ability to bypass the stomach and go to the intestines for immediate absorption. WMS’s ability to shuttle all these nutrients and starch gives the body an immediate "pump" you can physically feel in your muscles post workout. You will see a much larger, fuller and rounder muscle belly.

Dextrose and maltodextrin can cause water retention and bloating, hence WMS’s popularity with pre contest and contest preparation carbohydrate replenishment. Many dieters choose WMS as their carb of choice as it is sugar free and an ideal source of a long chain complex carbohydrate.
 
Another thing... i see a lot of guys on here giving mixing recommendations for their WMS shakes. "Just mix three scoops with 12-16oz of water bro. You can throw your whey in there if you like." This is not good. The optimal way to mix WMS is in a 5-10% solution of water. This will allow the WMS to do it's job. If you do not mix it right, you might as well not even use it IMO. Proper mixing makes a world of difference.

For the mathematically impaired I have already done the leg work for you.... For every 50 grams of powder you need at least 1 liter of water. Your old rotten Nalgene bottle holds one liter of liquid.

So you can mix one 70cc scoop of WMS (40g) + 10g BCAA + 5g Creatine in 1L of water and this will give you about the perfect mixture. For those that need more than 40g of WMS PWO I suggest making two shakes in two separate bottles. This works good for me.

Ok we have the mixing part down and a good suggestion for what to put in it. The purpose of the WMS + BCAA/Creatine is to pull those nutrients into your muscles as fast as possible and refill your Glycogen stores that have been depleted during your workout. Well what about the Protein??? Well, adding whey to your WMS is not a good idea. It will dramatically slow down the WMS. The whole point of the WMS is to be "fast acting". I suggest that you consume your WMS immediately PWO then wait 15-30 minutes and have 50g Whey Isolate + 10g L-Leucine. This has been working really well for me, and I have seen others recommend something similar. At the minimum consume 40g of some sort of Whey 15-30 minutes after your WMS. 30-40 minutes after the whey is a good time to get a solid meal. Lean Protein(meat) is ideal here. Carb sources here may vary depending on diet and time of day.
 
Good thread, K to u. I usually do 2 scoops and fill my shaker all the way to the top, probably not enough water but i still feel the effects from it. My muscles feel very full and i have my whey shake when i get home from the gym ~15 min later.
 
WMS is the shit bro. I love it. My diet is pretty low on carbs. I look forward to my WMS pre and post workout shakes. My muscles get absolutly engorged from this stuff. It is a good feeling.
 
I've been using the WMS immediately post workout with some creatine monohydrate in it, do you think adding BCAAs will be much more beneficial to add in? I haven't seen any results from it yet, no muscle pumps or anything after drinking it, just a semi-feeling of light headedness about 15 minutes later when I get home.
 
I dont get pumps or anything either i just feel really full and look alot more full to for a while after i work out. This must be a miracle for BBers before a show. If you want pumps try assault. you can get 30% off with the code in my sig.
 
I've been using an empty 32 ounce gatorade bottle (.94 liters).

As soon as i finish my drink PWO i mix a new one and put it in the fridge for the next workout. When next workout comes around i grab from fridge and take it with me to the gym but leave it in the car. That way, when i come out of the gym its at a perfect temperature to drink. Not too cold to chug, but still cool and refreshing. When i get home i mix another, store in fridge, and the process continues.
 
I just ordered WMS and the BCAA from JAM....I am going to go broke with all these damn supps!!!!!.....:faint:
 
WMS is the shit bro. I love it. My diet is pretty low on carbs. I look forward to my WMS pre and post workout shakes. My muscles get absolutly engorged from this stuff. It is a good feeling.

What are the advantages of WMS pre-workout (I can understand PWO)?

How long does it take to feel the "engorged muscles" if I use it PWO? I've done the 5% solution, and all I feel is that I've consumed 1.5 litres of water and therefore feel full, and spend ages pissing lol afterwards.

AS an eg today I did
60 WMS, 10 glut, 10 leucine, 10 creatine; then 30 minutes later 50 grams hydrolysed whey.

But I can't feel any difference doing this than oats + whey + milk
 
What are the advantages of WMS pre-workout (I can understand PWO)?

How long does it take to feel the "engorged muscles" if I use it PWO? I've done the 5% solution, and all I feel is that I've consumed 1.5 litres of water and therefore feel full, and spend ages pissing lol afterwards.

AS an eg today I did
60 WMS, 10 glut, 10 leucine, 10 creatine; then 30 minutes later 50 grams hydrolysed whey.

But I can't feel any difference doing this than oats + whey + milk

The only carbs in my diet come from broccoli, green beans, asparagus, nuts, ANPB, and the WMS. I think the "engorging of muscle tissue" lol has to do with the extremely low carbs and then the consumption of the WMS pre workout. Also I should add that I include two tablespoons of Glycerol with the WMS and Amp02 helps too;)
 
No, just don't mix it with anything that has fat in it.

mmm.. I don;t know about this. Mixing the WMS with anything other than the correct amount of water will slow the absorption rate of the WMS. I guess in all reality this doesn't matter to most, but I think it makes a world of difference to mix it in the proper solution of water. If you find the taste of WMS to be repulsive add some Crystal Lite and maybe a packet or two of Splenda.
 
Anyone looking for a GREAT custom WMS, go to TrueProtein.com and try this one.

75% Waxy-Maize Starch
10% Pepto-Pro
10% Instantized BCAA's
5% Leucine

You can add 5g of your own creatine to this too. I recommend one of the fruity premium flavors (or the taste will really suck). 2 scoops and you're good to go!
 
What makes WMS waxy maze better than say Pure Karbolyn?

Professional Supplements

Thanks for posting this the other day. I am almost done with my True Protein WMS custom-mix and liked the reviews I read on Karbolyn after seeing your post.

In fact, Professional Supplements has a new "during workout" mix that just came out called Hyperbolic 10. Looks like a combination of Xtend, Kre-Alkalyn, Karbolyn and some other popular products.

So, I went ahead and ordered both products and should have them next week. Using SuperPump250 for pre-workout, will be using Hyperbolic 10 during workout, and Karbolyn for post-workout. I'll be curious to see how these products work together and I'll let everyone know. The only thing I'm planning to add to the Karbolyn is Kre-Alkalyn and BCAA's for post-workout.

The True Protein custom mix was pretty good, but I'm always searching for better....:artist:
 
Thanks for posting this the other day. I am almost done with my True Protein WMS custom-mix and liked the reviews I read on Karbolyn after seeing your post.

In fact, Professional Supplements has a new "during workout" mix that just came out called Hyperbolic 10. Looks like a combination of Xtend, Kre-Alkalyn, Karbolyn and some other popular products.

So, I went ahead and ordered both products and should have them next week. Using SuperPump250 for pre-workout, will be using Hyperbolic 10 during workout, and Karbolyn for post-workout. I'll be curious to see how these products work together and I'll let everyone know. The only thing I'm planning to add to the Karbolyn is Kre-Alkalyn and BCAA's for post-workout.

The True Protein custom mix was pretty good, but I'm always searching for better....:artist:


hows that SUPERPUMP 250 treating you?
 
hows that SUPERPUMP 250 treating you?

It's ok. I have a high tolerance for stimulants, so it doesn't do for me what it does for alot of people. I've also tried N0-Xplode and Amp02 with the same results. Just minor pumps and some increased stamina. Ephedra is the only thing that makes me blast off, but I hate working with weights while on that stuff.
 
Thanks for posting this the other day. I am almost done with my True Protein WMS custom-mix and liked the reviews I read on Karbolyn after seeing your post.

In fact, Professional Supplements has a new "during workout" mix that just came out called Hyperbolic 10. Looks like a combination of Xtend, Kre-Alkalyn, Karbolyn and some other popular products.

So, I went ahead and ordered both products and should have them next week. Using SuperPump250 for pre-workout, will be using Hyperbolic 10 during workout, and Karbolyn for post-workout. I'll be curious to see how these products work together and I'll let everyone know. The only thing I'm planning to add to the Karbolyn is Kre-Alkalyn and BCAA's for post-workout.

The True Protein custom mix was pretty good, but I'm always searching for better....:artist:

Cool I will be looking out to hear your review!!!
I took some karbolyn preworkout yesturday and got good energy during WO! I will ask my guy about the other two for pre and during WO.
 
What do people think about mixing sodium with the WMS?

Here are some links recommending it for the malto/glucose PWO option, but the reasoning (if correct) largely applies to WMS too

AbcBodybuilding
Sodium

I realise people with high blood pressure probably shouldn't do this, so my target audience is everyone else.
 
Will wms lose its potency if i mix it up before working out then drink upon finishing or does it have to drank when mixed?
 
What do people think about mixing sodium with the WMS?

Here are some links recommending it for the malto/glucose PWO option, but the reasoning (if correct) largely applies to WMS too

AbcBodybuilding
Sodium

I realise people with high blood pressure probably shouldn't do this, so my target audience is everyone else.

I add a pinch of sea salt to my pre and post work out shakes. Along with 30ml of Glycerol to my pre and 15ml of Glycerol to my post workout shake. The combo of the WMS, Glycerol, and sea salt cause super hydration and I fill up like crazy. Especially since I am low carb. You should look into Glycerol supplementation. It is super cheap and underrated.
 
If anyone is interested..... I have a really good study that was done on the ergogenic effects of glycerol and hyper-hydration. I would be more than happy to email anyone if they want it. PM me if so.
 
OATS > WMS
WMS = empty calories as opposed to OATS which are nutrient dense.

For whole food, butternut squash or russet potatoes >>>>> oats

Both have no fat; oats 8-10%.

Both are high GI.

BOth are more nutritious than oats. Russet potaotes have amongst the best ORAC antioxidant score of any food (Oxygen radical absorbance capacity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Butternutsquash is perhaps the most nutrient dense starch. Both are good sources of potatssium, >>> banana.

Comparing Butternutsquash to oats, Squash has more of every vitamin, and most nutrients, except manganese, phosphorous (both normally consumed in excess) and zinc.

See below for a 300 cal serve of oats, butternut winter squash, potato, and banana.


BUTTERNUT WINTER SQUASH [/B](TASTES AWESOME ROASTED when it caramelizes)




General (17%)
===========================================
Energy | 297.0 kcal 13%
Protein | 6.6 g 3%
Carbs | 77.2 g 35%
Fiber | 13.2 g 35%
Fat | 0.7 g 1%
Water | 570.3 g 15%

Vitamins (47%)
===========================================
Vitamin A | 70158.0 IU 2339%
Folate | 178.2 µg 45%
B1 (Thiamine) | 0.7 mg 55%
B2 (Riboflavin) | 0.1 mg 10%
B3 (Niacin) | 7.9 mg 49%
B5 (Pantothenic Acid)| 2.6 mg 53%
B6 (Pyridoxine) | 1.0 mg 78%
B12 (Cyanocobalamin) | 0.0 µg 0%
Vitamin C | 138.6 mg 154%
Vitamin D | 0.0 IU 0%
Vitamin E | 9.5 mg 63%
Vitamin K | 7.3 µg 6%

Minerals (35%)
===========================================
Calcium | 316.8 mg 32%
Copper | 0.5 mg 53%
Iron | 4.6 mg 58%
Magnesium | 224.4 mg 56%
Manganese | 1.3 mg 58%
Phosphorus | 217.8 mg 31%
Potassium | 2323.2 mg 49%
Selenium | 3.3 µg 6%
Sodium | 26.4 mg 2%
Zinc | 1.0 mg 9%

Lipids (1%)
===========================================
Saturated | 0.1 g 1%
Omega-3 | 0.2 g 2%
Omega-6 | 0.1 g 1%
Cholesterol | 0.0 mg 0%

WHITE POTATO:


General (14%)
===========================================
Energy | 296.7 kcal 13%
Protein | 7.2 g 4%
Carbs | 67.6 g 30%
Fiber | 10.3 g 27%
Fat | 0.4 g 0%
Water | 350.8 g 9%

Vitamins (23%)
===========================================
Vitamin A | 34.4 IU 1%
Folate | 77.4 µg 19%
B1 (Thiamine) | 0.3 mg 25%
B2 (Riboflavin) | 0.1 mg 11%
B3 (Niacin) | 4.6 mg 29%
B5 (Pantothenic Acid)| 1.2 mg 24%
B6 (Pyridoxine) | 0.9 mg 67%
B12 (Cyanocobalamin) | 0.0 µg 0%
Vitamin C | 84.7 mg 94%
Vitamin D | 0.0 IU 0%
Vitamin E | 0.0 mg 0%
Vitamin K | 6.9 µg 6%

Minerals (23%)
===========================================
Calcium | 38.7 mg 4%
Copper | 0.5 mg 55%
Iron | 2.2 mg 28%
Magnesium | 90.3 mg 23%
Manganese | 0.6 mg 27%
Phosphorus | 266.6 mg 38%
Potassium | 1750.1 mg 37%
Selenium | 1.3 µg 2%
Sodium | 25.8 mg 2%
Zinc | 1.2 mg 11%

Lipids (1%)
===========================================
Saturated | 0.1 g 1%
Omega-3 | 0.0 g 0%
Omega-6 | 0.1 g 1%
Cholesterol | 0.0 mg 0%

OATS:


General (12%)
===========================================
Energy | 299.5 kcal 13%
Protein | 13.0 g 7%
Carbs | 51.0 g 23%
Fiber | 8.2 g 21%
Fat | 5.3 g 6%
Water | 6.3 g 0%

Vitamins (8%)
===========================================
Vitamin A | 0.0 IU 0%
Folate | 43.1 µg 11%
B1 (Thiamine) | 0.6 mg 49%
B2 (Riboflavin) | 0.1 mg 8%
B3 (Niacin) | 0.7 mg 5%
B5 (Pantothenic Acid)| 1.0 mg 21%
B6 (Pyridoxine) | 0.1 mg 7%
B12 (Cyanocobalamin) | 0.0 µg 0%
Vitamin C | 0.0 mg 0%
Vitamin D | 0.0 IU 0%
Vitamin E | 0.0 mg 0%
Vitamin K | 0.0 µg 0%

Minerals (33%)
===========================================
Calcium | 41.6 mg 4%
Copper | 0.5 mg 54%
Iron | 3.6 mg 45%
Magnesium | 136.3 mg 34%
Manganese | 3.8 mg 165%
Phosphorus | 402.7 mg 58%
Potassium | 330.3 mg 7%
Selenium | 0.0 µg 0% {note: I think this is a mistake of this database]
Sodium | 1.5 mg 0%
Zinc | 3.1 mg 28%

Lipids (6%)
===========================================
Saturated | 0.9 g 5%
Omega-3 | 0.1 g 1%
Omega-6 | 1.9 g 19%
Cholesterol | 0.0 mg 0%

BANANA


General (13%)
===========================================
Energy | 293.7 kcal 13%
Protein | 3.6 g 2%
Carbs | 75.4 g 34%
Fiber | 8.6 g 23%
Fat | 1.1 g 1%
Water | 247.2 g 7%

Vitamins (18%)
===========================================
Vitamin A | 211.2 IU 7%
Folate | 66.0 µg 16%
B1 (Thiamine) | 0.1 mg 9%
B2 (Riboflavin) | 0.2 mg 19%
B3 (Niacin) | 2.2 mg 14%
B5 (Pantothenic Acid)| 1.1 mg 22%
B6 (Pyridoxine) | 1.2 mg 93%
B12 (Cyanocobalamin) | 0.0 µg 0%
Vitamin C | 28.7 mg 32%
Vitamin D | 0.0 IU 0%
Vitamin E | 0.3 mg 2%
Vitamin K | 1.6 µg 1%

Minerals (15%)
===========================================
Calcium | 16.5 mg 2%
Copper | 0.3 mg 29%
Iron | 0.9 mg 11%
Magnesium | 89.1 mg 22%
Manganese | 0.9 mg 39%
Phosphorus | 72.6 mg 10%
Potassium | 1181.4 mg 25%
Selenium | 3.3 µg 6%
Sodium | 3.3 mg 0%
Zinc | 0.5 mg 4%

Lipids (1%)
===========================================
Saturated | 0.4 g 2%
Omega-3 | 0.1 g 1%
Omega-6 | 0.2 g 2%
Cholesterol | 0.0 mg 0%
 
Whilst the thread is bumped this is my question:

I'm not carbphobic or sensitive.

If I consume whey + milk + oats immediately before working out, and they whey + oats PWO, am I really going to be worse off than someone using WMS? I mean I will be getting glycogen replenishment throughout the entire workout.

Frankly, in terms of recovery I'm not noticing any benefit to WMS. It's not worse, its just unless there is a clear benefit, butternut squash/sweet potatoes >>>> nutrition/health WMS
 
Was gonna start a new thread, but Since it is Waxy related, I'll bump it in here...

Do you bros use waxy PWO for weight training days only, or on Cardio days also?? I just started using Waxy yesterday..mixing with BCAA and Glutamine per Just add Muscles recommendation.

For pre workout I was just taking Amp02, water and an apple.... this month I'm trying Assault as my preworkout...I'll let you bros how I think it compares to AMP02....I LOVE ampO2..
 
Was gonna start a new thread, but Since it is Waxy related, I'll bump it in here...

Do you bros use waxy PWO for weight training days only, or on Cardio days also?? I just started using Waxy yesterday..mixing with BCAA and Glutamine per Just add Muscles recommendation.

For pre workout I was just taking Amp02, water and an apple.... this month I'm trying Assault as my preworkout...I'll let you bros how I think it compares to AMP02....I LOVE ampO2..

There is no reason why you can't use it for post cardio, althouhg not LISS cardio.

However, the question is does it have any advantages for this purpose? U don't really need the insulin spike for muscle growth, and any carb has sufficient insulin spike to suppress cortisol
 
Whilst the thread is bumped this is my question:

I'm not carbphobic or sensitive.

If I consume whey + milk + oats immediately before working out, and they whey + oats PWO, am I really going to be worse off than someone using WMS? I mean I will be getting glycogen replenishment throughout the entire workout.

Frankly, in terms of recovery I'm not noticing any benefit to WMS. It's not worse, its just unless there is a clear benefit, butternut squash/sweet potatoes >>>> nutrition/health WMS

Hey Des,

I would say WM+ oats pwo would not be nearly as effective as WM in producting an insuline spike, as the oats is low GI.

Im a big fan of WM by the way. I always used to hate using dextrose before the introduction of WM
 
Was gonna start a new thread, but Since it is Waxy related, I'll bump it in here...

Do you bros use waxy PWO for weight training days only, or on Cardio days also?? I just started using Waxy yesterday..mixing with BCAA and Glutamine per Just add Muscles recommendation.

For pre workout I was just taking Amp02, water and an apple.... this month I'm trying Assault as my preworkout...I'll let you bros how I think it compares to AMP02....I LOVE ampO2..

I would say no for you on the post cardio WM. You're cutting and wanting to cut carbs wherever possible. After cardio, especially steady state cardio, your muscles aren't screaming for replenishment like after you beat the shit out of them weight training. Now if your cardio is ball busting all out sprints up a steep hill, then yes.

Make sense?
 
Hey Des,

I would say WM+ oats pwo would not be nearly as effective as WM in producting an insuline spike, as the oats is low GI.

Im a big fan of WM by the way. I always used to hate using dextrose before the introduction of WM

what about something like white potato then? (and the GI of quick oats is actually on the high scale of medium and there other breakfast cereals that are higher)
 
yeah, I use powdered oats which are considerably higher GI than normal ones.

Howver its my understanding that WM is stellar in terms of an insulin response - nothing else compares. PWO I see insulin manipulation as being my biggest win of the day in terms of hypertrophy.

Plus its out of the belly within 20 mins, and non filling - I like to eat a complex carbs+meat protein meal 30 mins after my PWO shake, with WM im not full at this point.

Personally I cant see any reason not to use it, unless on a keto diet.
 
yeah, I use powdered oats which are considerably higher GI than normal ones.

Howver its my understanding that WM is stellar in terms of an insulin response - nothing else compares. PWO I see insulin manipulation as being my biggest win of the day in terms of hypertrophy.

Plus its out of the belly within 20 mins, and non filling - I like to eat a complex carbs+meat protein meal 30 mins after my PWO shake, with WM im not full at this point.

Personally I cant see any reason not to use it, unless on a keto diet.

I may have been wrong here - i think WM initiates 0 insulin response, just good to replenish glycogen levels
 
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