The Vick Case

[Lestat]

Ok maybe I should clarify here then.

I do not believe you should do a year in prison for private gambling.

What's next? Jail time for fantast football leagues with cash payouts? Office pools?

I should also state my opinions on some other crimes that this country seems fit to put people in prison for:

Possession of marijuana, or possession or any drug for that matter.
use of steroids
prositution
gambling


cruelty to animals should carry a penalty, no doubt about it. I'd never argue otherwise.

I think hunting should be banned, period, it should not be allowed for sport in any circumstance.

Dog fighting, and cock fighting should be banned, and punishable by fines and service work.

heinous repeated cruelty to animals should carry a stiffer penalties upon susequent offenses.

This is how I see the Vick case.

He fucked up. he's stupid. He should have found a legal hobby. Something that wasn't cruel to animals. The better was just lame, it had no material impact to him or his income so why bother.

Does the guy deserve to be punished? yes.
name in the paper? yes
denounced by dog lovers. yes
pay some fines? yes
allowed to breed dogs? no
community service work? yes
probation? yes
prison? no
loss of MILLIONS in income? no


I know most of you don't like doing this, but I'll give you an example that may give you some of the feeling that I feel now.

Imagine this, you hear about how in parts of Africa, they will cut off your penis for adultury. How does that make you feel?

In China, money fraud can carry the death penalty. How does it make you feel?

In Singapore, you can be jailed, and canned for graffiti. How does that make you feel?

In Taliban controlled tribal areas, you will have your hand cut off for stealing. How does that make you feel?


Those feelings are the same ones I get when thinking about someone going to Prison for a year for their involvement in dog fighting. I don't get quite as extreme of a feeling or reation as I do with the other situations, but its similar. I feel like someone is being OVER punished. That there is a crime be comitted here, but he's getting piled on.

I don't think Vick is the only one, I see this other times for other crimes as well. I'm arguing about Vick specifically now though. I could make the case for some other people who have put in prison for possession of drugs (yes, simple possesion can land you in PRISON if its repeated or a 3rd strike).

 

[Lestat]

You should see if they're playing the most recent Real Sports. They went into it and it's just so fucking awful. It showed them euthanize a dog because it was raised to do nothing to fight and couldn't be trusted around people or other animals. I choked up. The thing looked so sad and responded well to the people that had to put it down. Like it trusted them and then he just went to sleep.

i watched that as well. its terrible, I wish it could be eliminated altogether. I think its senseless.

 

[Bikini Mod]

LOL most of elite C&C would be behind bars....

 

[Lestat]

LOL most of elite C&C would be behind bars....

yeah that is the ironic part. people who have no problem with using or posessing drugs. even possessing illegal drugs in homes where children are present. People who even derive substantial pieces of income from illegal sale of drugs.

I'm sure many people here speed, or possibly copy music or movies (federal crimes). All sorts of stuff that is illegal, but for whatever reasons don't carry extreme penalties or are not enforced to the full extent of the law.

The dog issue is an EMOTIONAL one for people. we all know that puppies are so cute, dogs are defenseless and innocent. It really stirs up anger in people to hear that a dog could have be brutally put to death. It stirs up MORE anger than hearing about an innocent person put to death in most cases.

 

[gotmilk]

I do not believe you should do a year in prison for private gambling.

This was not 40 guys hanging out for casino night in someone's house. They tortured animals and forced them to fight to the death.

What do you think you would feel like if Phaded and I grabbed you by the throat and stuffed your face in a tub of water until you stopped breathing. I've actually seen a dog fall off my boat and go into a panic seizure while in about 10 feet of water.

I think hunting should be banned, period, it should not be allowed for sport in any circumstance.

It's never for "sport" unless it's on a private game reserve. Hunting is to maintain wild animal populations. Hell...the moose here in Maine sometimes breed in crazy numbers. Although...I'd like to kill off some of the people around to "cultivate" the inbreeders. I'm all for hunting people for sport...but people would get upset at that idea too. Coming from someone who sees deer, moose, ungodly amounts of wild turkeys....hunting is needed sometimes to guarantee healthy herds.

Dog fighting, and cock fighting should be banned, and punishable by fines and service work.

Like failure to pay parking tickets? The punishment is to scare other people into not wanting to act the same way. What would a monetary fine and probation teach Mike Vick?

He fucked up. he's stupid. He should have found a legal hobby. Something that wasn't cruel to animals. The better was just lame, it had no material impact to him or his income so why bother.

Because you can take the fools out of the ghetto but you can never take the ghetto out of the fools. He could have purchased old casino equipment and run an illegal gambling operation in his house. Cards, craps, slots, betting on sports. What he did was pretty sick. He could have hired a vet to euthanize any dogs...no questions asked.

loss of MILLIONS in income? no

Absofriggenlutely he does. There's a difference between making a mistake and intentionally doing what he did. He's a thug with amazing football skills. There are millions of people in the U.S. who could use a break like Mike was given for years and they would never pull this horseshit.

Imagine this, you hear about how in parts of Africa, they will cut off your penis for adultury. How does that make you feel?

Makes me feel like those guys should stick to their marriage vows or not get married. Don't fuck around if you're not ready to stop.

In China, money fraud can carry the death penalty. How does it make you feel?

Don't break the law and you have nothing to worry about.

In Singapore, you can be jailed, and canned for graffiti. How does that make you feel?

My friends at Las Vegas Sands have the Singapore gaming license and I've been to Sentosa Island many times. Singapore is amazing, no trash anywhere, they recycle everything, and they have their shit together. $75 fine for spitting on the sidewalk. How do I feel about Singapore? Don't be a prick and intentionally break the law. Grow up, be a fucking responsible adult, and if you intentionally break the law, be prepared to face your punishment. There's no dipshit gangbangers, grafitti, or trash in Singapore....and places like Newark, Houston, Compton, Detroit, Richmond, and Hartford would no longer be armpits of their States if they learned a lesson from Singapore....

In Taliban controlled tribal areas, you will have your hand cut off for stealing. How does that make you feel?

Oh noo....I should be able to steal and only get a monetary fine. Hey...my Dad saw a guy get his skull split with an axe for killing another families goats...moral of the story....don't kill my fucking food supply. I saw three Navy Seals drill a Taliban with a 50 cal rifle...and all because he was wearing Taliban clothing and carrying an AK-47

I feel like someone is being OVER punished. That there is a crime be comitted here, but he's getting piled on.

18 months is not piling on.......15 years would have been excessive. His gambling ring borders on what Mobsters pull.

repeated or a 3rd strike).

When you reach strike two, maybe it's time to grow up.

 

[Raptorex]

yeah that is the ironic part. people who have no problem with using or posessing drugs. even possessing illegal drugs in homes where children are present. People who even derive substantial pieces of income from illegal sale of drugs.

I'm sure many people here speed, or possibly copy music or movies (federal crimes). All sorts of stuff that is illegal, but for whatever reasons don't carry extreme penalties or are not enforced to the full extent of the law.

The dog issue is an EMOTIONAL one for people. we all know that puppies are so cute, dogs are defenseless and innocent. It really stirs up anger in people to hear that a dog could have be brutally put to death. It stirs up MORE anger than hearing about an innocent person put to death in most cases.

 

[Raptorex]

its how I feel, I think this case is complete and utter bullshit. the punishment does NOT fit the crime.

 

[Raptorex]

that is some FUCKED up shit I agree. stealing someone's pet to use in that manner is inexcusable.

but, vick hasn't been accused of that.

BUT that is one of the many reasons why the sport should be ILLEGAL and punished.

But as I said, my point is, he should not go to prison over this, NO ONE should for their first dog fighting offense, I don't care if they were the grandmaster of dog fighting. Fine the shit out of then, probation forever, never own a dog, something, but prison? Lets keep it real.

 

[Bikini Mod]

It stirs up MORE anger than hearing about an innocent person put to death in most cases.

Sums up my entire arguement and why I am nauseated by all of the hypocracy on this thread.

Suffering is awful no matter who or what is suffering if it is a living thing, alligators and cows don't suffer any less when they are killed for their meat/skin but you don't see so many up in arms as alligators and cows are ugly I suppose.

But some of those same people actually make light of the suffering of humans.

THAT MAKES ME SICK - PERIOD.

 

[Lestat]

lol @ gotmilk comparing drowning a dog to drowing a human.


folks, therein lies the problem!

goodnight!