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The Universe might not be infinit.....

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http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/11/science/space/11COSM.htmlUniverse as Doughnut: New Data, New Debate
By DENNIS OVERBYE


ong ago in the dawn of the computer age, college students often whiled away the nights playing a computer game called Spacewar. It consisted of two rocket ships attempting to blast each other out of the sky with torpedoes while trying to avoid falling into a star at the center of the screen.

Although cartoonish in appearance, the game was amazingly faithful to the laws of physics, complete with a gravitational field that affected both the torpedoes and the rockets. Only one feature seemed outlandish: a ship that drifted off the edge of the screen would reappear on the opposite side.

Real space couldn't work that way.

Or could it?

Imagine that the Spacewar screen is wrapped around to form a cylinder or a section of a doughnut so that the two edges meet.

That is the picture of space, some cosmologists say, that has been suggested by a new detailed map of the early universe. Their analysis of this map has now provided a series of hints — though only hints — that the universe may have a more complicated shape than astronomers presumed.

Rather than being infinite in all directions, as the most fashionable theory suggests, the universe could be radically smaller in one direction than the others. As a result it may be even be shaped like a doughnut.

"There's a hint in the data that if you traveled far and fast in the direction of the constellation Virgo, you'd return to Earth from the opposite direction," said Dr. Max Tegmark, a cosmologist at the University of Pennsylvania.

The new data have generated both buzz and skepticism among cosmologists in recent weeks. Dr. Tegmark and other astronomers agree that the measurements are far from conclusive, or even persuasive about the shape of the universe.

But if true, the doughnut universe would force cosmologists to reconsider their theories about what happened in the earliest moments after the universe was born in the Big Bang; those theories predict an infinite cosmos.

The new findings have brought to center stage the hope that astronomers may be able to test speculations about the shape, or topology, of the universe that until recently have been relegated to the abstract mathematical margins of cosmology.

The results are part of the bounty of data produced by a NASA satellite known as the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe, built and operated by an international collaboration led by Dr. Charles L. Bennett of the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. The satellite recorded the pattern of heat, in the form of faint microwave radiation, that fills the sky.

This radiation is believed to be the afterglow of the Big Bang itself, and thus constitutes a portrait of the universe when it was only 380,000 years old.

As the COBE satellite first confirmed in 1992, the microwave cloud is laced with ripples and splotches — lumps in the cosmic gravy — from which galaxies and other cosmic structures would ultimately form.

According to theory, these lumps are born as microscopic fluctuations during the first instant of time and then amplified into sound waves as the universe expands and matter and energy slosh around.

Now the new satellite has illuminated the findings of COBE (pronounced KOE-bee, for Cosmic Background Explorer) in exquisite detail.

By analyzing these waves cosmologists can determine many of the characteristics of the universe, which scientists have long debated, like its age and density. To their delight, the first results from the Wilkinson satellite, released last month, confirmed many of the strange ideas that cosmologists entertained in the last decade, including the notion that most of the universe consists of something called dark energy, which is pushing space apart at an accelerating rate.

"Cosmologists have built a house of cards and it stands," said Dr. James Peebles, a cosmologist at Princeton.

But to their even greater delight, perhaps, as they dig into the trove released last month, cosmologists are finding hints of even more strangeness.
..............

If the Universe is a "Donut" is there a giant Homer Simpson out there waiting to devour it?
 
Hmm, so what is outside the doughnut, more space? What about the space outside the "more space", and so on? Ninjas are the only answer. peace
 
Outside the donut is the creamy toppings!!!!
 
that was pretty interesting. What's up with the life on other planets though? have they found out anything about that yet?
 
that was pretty interesting. What's up with the life on other planets though? have they found out anything about that yet?
 
that was pretty interesting. What's up with the life on other planets though? have they found out anything about that yet?
 
that was pretty interesting. What's up with the life on other planets though? have they found out anything about that yet?
 
that was pretty interesting. What's up with the life on other planets though? have they found out anything about that yet?
 
that was pretty interesting. What's up with the life on other planets though? have they found out anything about that yet?
 
that was pretty interesting. What's up with the life on other planets though? have they found out anything about that yet?
 
that was pretty interesting. What's up with the life on other planets though? have they found out anything about that yet?
 
Sad thing is I have that game for Coleco Vision around here somewhere.

As for the Krispy Kremes. God damn those are good, but it's like unleashing a sugar bomb into my body. Gives me the shakes. I thought to myself "If you're weren't diabetic before....you are now".
 
CCCP is posting from the convex point of the universe hence the 8 counts.
 
havoc said:
Hmm, so what is outside the doughnut, more space? What about the space outside the "more space", and so on? Ninjas are the only answer. peace

I believe outside of it all is the All knowing, all seing Mantis. We are but littl grasshopers trying to reach him. Thats what i thought when i was eating mushroms anyway.
 
the really strange part of it is to consider this: What really is beyond the edge of the Universe? We know or at least think we know what the boundaries are. They are finite for sure. Nothing exists beyond the point at which we can see (optically or otherwise) So, in this light what is it that is outside this boundary? If the Universe is expanding then what is it expanding into? And if collapsing what is it collapsing into?

Better yet, what is inside the Universe?

Example: Say you are a two dimensional creature. You live on the plane of a piece of paper. Everything to you is 2 dimensional or lower. You can postulate higher dimensions but you cannot really experience them or describe them. Now all of a sudden you find your self in 3 dimensions. Our world. How would you describe this to someone back in your world? That you were in a 3 dimensional world as a 2 dimensional creature.

That is where we are at. We are 3d beings 4 if you count time. So how do we describe sub-space or hyper-space? How would we live if at all? What is it like?
 
How do you figure? If so, what then is beyond god?

Of course some will say nothing, but then what is beyond the universe? what was beyond the galaxy or the solar system or the planet or the land or the horizon or the sea's?
 
chesty said:
How do you figure? If so, what then is beyond god?

Of course some will say nothing, but then what is beyond the universe? what was beyond the galaxy or the solar system or the planet or the land or the horizon or the sea's?

your getting all philisophical on my here chesty :)

my only thing is why is it we can't understand " nothing"

we always see nothing as something- the mind can't comprehend that?
 
CCCP said:
that was pretty interesting. What's up with the life on other planets though? have they found out anything about that yet?

The Drake equation lists the probablity, or rather, the number of other intelligent civilizations out there. The only problem is we probably will never see them. They're too far away, and the human civilization probably won't last long enough to contact any of them.

Basically, the universe is finite, and ever expanding. The universe can continue to expand and it just expands into emptiness. So beyong the universe is really merely empty, unoccupied space.

I just took an Astronomy course.....and people told me that it was going to be useless......
 
It used to be that the speed of sound was not breakable, now it is th speed of light. And while that may be a firm reality, there are other ways to travel the universe instantly or close to it without violating this principal thereby allowing us to see these civilazations.

As for philisophical, well, what can I say, if one is willing to ask the question, one must be willing to look for the answer.
 
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