the issue of sustanan and injection times

[bicepts101]

the issue of sust needing to be injected EOD or once a week and twice has been floating around the boards since the compund first came out. yet i have not seen a diffenitave answer.

i have a logical one:

this posted from another guy at another board...and my response:
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respected member

Well, I'll just explain a few things with sust.. It should be shot eod, to keep levels stable, and help with less sides...Don't rely on nolva for water retention, use an AI arim/letro to reduce bloat...Use Test E if you're going to run it 500mgs aor shoot 2x per wk...With Test E you can shoot it 1 or 2x per wk and levels will be relatively consistent...
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my response

this issue has gone back an forth...

sustanan has four esters for a reason...there is no reason to shot eod...you have esters different half lives:

propionate 4 days
phenylpropionate 5 days
isocaproate 9 days
decanoate 15 days

first let me ask you this question, based on logic...why would any company make a steroid or drug with four differenct esters if injection should be EOD? plus all the esters are spread apart by four or five days each. to me this would say, " the prop esters are there so the drug enters you system faster, the iso helps to ramp up and the decan also. this, to me, says a slow steady stream of test for an entire week.

so again, why would they make a test with four esters, long and short, if you can simply use one ester(PROP) and have the same drug?

this drug was made to last long, reduce sides, and keep levels more stable thn any other test can....

lets discuss...

 

[viagraboy]

Sustanon sucks. Why not make it easy and avoid it. One esther test is the best way to go. Levels are stable and you can shoot every 5 days or so instead of EOD. If I wanted to stick myself every day Id take fina injections or a water based test. I dont see a need for sustanon or anyother mixed esther test.

 

[theironclan]

I like sust and find that one injection weekly is all that is needed.

 

[Outtlaw]

I dont give a fuck about levels. I care about how many mg's of compound Im getting in total. If I want 2grams of sust a week, then Im most likely gonna shoot it everyday. If I only want 500mg/wk, then Im gonna shoot it once or 2x a week tops.

If I shoot my 750mg twice a week and you do yours eod, will you get better results because your levels are more stable than mine?... possibly, but I doubt you'd be able to notice the difference. Besides, most people who use sust are gonna run something else along with it anyway, so levels shouldnt even be that much of an issue.

 

[rao740]

sust is a great tool and if this eod day shit i mean 250 to 500mgs or even 700mgs is more thna enough when u r running deca or dbol with it try it and be patiant becasue it is gonna bee like 3 weeks or more before you see results but why donesn't anyone have patience anymore it is like people wnat 25 lbs 2morrow or it is not goodenough i mean this is something that takes time effort and a lot of hard work lets not forget that

 

[The Terminator]

As with ANY INJECTABLE DRUG THE MORE you inject it the more blood stability you will achieve, so 10 injections of Sust per day is better than 1 LOL )
But who the hell wants to do that?

I have always done my Sust (or Omnas) e3d or twice a week and ALWAYS got the results I wanted...

Guys who think Sust is a waste if you dont shoot it ed are WRONG...
Its NOT the most optimal when used that way (if someone wanted to get EXTREMELY picky about it), but it CERTAINLY wont be too disappointing

 

[UA_Iron]

As with ANY INJECTABLE DRUG THE MORE you inject it the more blood stability you will achieve, so 10 injections of Sust per day is better than 1 LOL )
But who the hell wants to do that?

I have always done my Sust (or Omnas) e3d or twice a week and ALWAYS got the results I wanted...

Guys who think Sust is a waste if you dont shoot it ed are WRONG...
Its NOT the most optimal when used that way (if someone wanted to get EXTREMELY picky about it), but it CERTAINLY wont be too disappointing

define "stable" ...if you injected a long ester ed then blood serum levels would continue to increase forever, reaching no stable point.

I agree on the frequency of injections (to a certain extent) and how they will avoid the peaks and valleys which in turn could cause hormonal issues.

AAS blood levels are somewhat hard to model mathematically since the levels compound within your body yet are decaying at the same time.

I'd go 2-3 times per week. There's so little of the prop ester in the sustanon that trying to benefit from it by injecting eod is stupid imo. Like someone else said scientists and researchers didnt create sustanon so it could be shot every other day. The goal is have a fast acting ester kick in quickly, and then the other ones keep it level till the next shot.

Conclusion: Perhaps people's time on worrying about how to shoot sustanon should be spent analyzing their diet and training?

 

[The Terminator]

define "stable" ...if you injected a long ester ed then blood serum levels would continue to increase forever, reaching no stable point.


Conclusion: Perhaps people's time on worrying about how to shoot sustanon should be spent analyzing their diet and training?

1. No, at a certain point they will level off no matter how much you are injecting (what that point is I cant realistically quantify)

2. A 100% resounding YES, I agree with that

 

[UA_Iron]

1. No, at a certain point they will level off no matter how much you are injecting (what that point is I cant realistically quantify)

2. A 100% resounding YES, I agree with that

1. Crazy things happen at infinity, like parallel lines meeting and stuff

 

[quadkilla31]

I don't think you can tell the difference if you inject it eod or twice a week. I'm concerened more on how many mgs a week i'm getting. If i want 500mgs a week i inject twice a wk and if i want 750mg a wk it's 3 times a week. Let's not make it harder than it is. It's whatever you want to do. It's going to be in your system regardless so who's to say which is better.

 

[The Terminator]

1. Crazy things happen at infinity, like parallel lines meeting and stuff

In theory.....

 

[The Terminator]

You just reminded me to go check on the availability of the math class I wanted to see if I can sneak into this semester...

 

[Madcow2]

Something to keep in mind is that there is more test in 100mg of Prop than there is in 100mg of decanoate. The longer esters increase the weight (at the shortest extreme is suspension without ester).

 

[hrlydvdson1]

who in the hell is saying sust sucks. it is wise to think before you post. there are knowledgeable people on the boards that now think you are an idiot. i like 500 mgs of sus with two inj. per wk. also, run with 30-50 mg of dbol per day. this is an old school stack that will make you STRONG. i was doing 300 for 20 reps on the bench at the peak of the stack.....sus sucks?

 

[falcon9901]

I was also wondering about the injection times for sust for a while. Whats the recommended times for the other tests, like prop cyp or enanth?

 

[Makavelli]

I've always said that sust should be injected once a week and that was the reason it was made with 4 esters as stated above. Good to see I'm not alone on this board. It's only rational. But hey, if you like poking yourself eod go for it.

 

[chyllaxyn]

Think maybe viagraboy (snaps for that name there limpy) is referring to a long diatribe on blended test on other board ..not going to mention their wannabe name. . .
But dood you should take anything you read from a NON medical professional about T levels with a grain of salt. (and even then I do my own research) Not that vets and mods are wrong; in fact when I hear a lot of pros giving the same opinion on something I take that as gospel above what my doctor may say.
But in this case I think it was just one person’s opinion. He referenced no real medical case studies, and if you look closely the chart he used was fake, no one flat lines T levels like that. It was a completely bogus chart.
So before making a judgment do the research and see what the consensuses is, and in this case I can tell you sust and omna are very viable cycle options and they do work, be it EOD or bi weekly shots.

The Bottomline though , if sust works for you, screw all other opinions.








I like my vials like I like my women, short, stubby and full of controlled substances.

 

[bicepts101]

I dont give a fuck about levels. I care about how many mg's of compound Im getting in total. If I want 2grams of sust a week, then Im most likely gonna shoot it everyday. If I only want 500mg/wk, then Im gonna shoot it once or 2x a week tops.

If I shoot my 750mg twice a week and you do yours eod, will you get better results because your levels are more stable than mine?... possibly, but I doubt you'd be able to notice the difference. Besides, most people who use sust are gonna run something else along with it anyway, so levels shouldnt even be that much of an issue.

did you read my post bro!!???!! im not sure if you are agreeing with me or you read the title and posted..but thats basically what i just said...

on the other hand it does matter that levels are stable.....but in this instance with this particular compound twice a week is fine and should yeld the same results as eod..

and who do you know that shoot 2gs of test?...lol come on bro...read the post before you bash

 

[bicepts101]

As with ANY INJECTABLE DRUG THE MORE you inject it the more blood stability you will achieve, so 10 injections of Sust per day is better than 1 LOL )
But who the hell wants to do that?

I have always done my Sust (or Omnas) e3d or twice a week and ALWAYS got the results I wanted...

Guys who think Sust is a waste if you dont shoot it ed are WRONG...
Its NOT the most optimal when used that way (if someone wanted to get EXTREMELY picky about it), but it CERTAINLY wont be too disappointing

yes bro and this is true....

people seem to think you have to shoot it like prop cause it has prop in it....once a week will suffice...so will twice...i prefer twice my self

and here terminator reiterates the fact that it IS important to have stable blood levels....with sust this is eastier than any other test to acheive because of it unique ester combination

 

[bicepts101]

Like someone else said scientists and researchers didnt create sustanon so it could be shot every other day. The goal is have a fast acting ester kick in quickly, and then the other ones keep it level till the next shot.

this i definatly agree with

karma to all serious input

 

[bicepts101]

1. No, at a certain point they will level off no matter how much you are injecting (what that point is I cant realistically quantify

so is this having to do with genetics and receptors?

 

[bicepts101]

I don't think you can tell the difference if you inject it eod or twice a week. I'm concerened more on how many mgs a week i'm getting. If i want 500mgs a week i inject twice a wk and if i want 750mg a wk it's 3 times a week. Let's not make it harder than it is. It's whatever you want to do. It's going to be in your system regardless so who's to say which is better.

this stuff matter....stable levels mean better gains and LESS SIDES.....do u understand??....this IS important....

you are right on one account in your post...."lets not make it harder then it is".....if you are doing 750mg a week go 3cc in the ass and you're straight for the week...your 1000mg go 2cc twice a week...too easy right?

and the reason you cant tell when you shoot eod to twice a week is because IT DOESNT MATTER WITH THIS COMPOUND....it can be shoot ONCE a week......now listen before anyone gets pissed to make this clearer for ya....do you think you would notice it if you shoot test prop twice a week?....

 

[bicepts101]

who in the hell is saying sust sucks. it is wise to think before you post. there are knowledgeable people on the boards that now think you are an idiot. i like 500 mgs of sus with two inj. per wk. also, run with 30-50 mg of dbol per day. this is an old school stack that will make you STRONG. i was doing 300 for 20 reps on the bench at the peak of the stack.....sus sucks?

so the guy doesnt like sust, who cares?....i dont like test period....does that make me stupid...it gives me gyno...i use low doses...>200mg.....different things work for different people bro

 

[bicepts101]

Think maybe viagraboy (snaps for that name there limpy) is referring to a long diatribe on blended test on other board ..not going to mention their wannabe name. . .
But dood you should take anything you read from a NON medical professional about T levels with a grain of salt. (and even then I do my own research) Not that vets and mods are wrong; in fact when I hear a lot of pros giving the same opinion on something I take that as gospel above what my doctor may say.
But in this case I think it was just one person’s opinion. He referenced no real medical case studies, and if you look closely the chart he used was fake, no one flat lines T levels like that. It was a completely bogus chart.
So before making a judgment do the research and see what the consensuses is, and in this case I can tell you sust and omna are very viable cycle options and they do work, be it EOD or bi weekly shots.

The Bottomline though , if sust works for you, screw all other opinions.

my original post has nothing to do with science...read what i said....i said it would be logical....

 

[dilznik]

Good post, at least for me. I am currently running Organon sust at 1ml every fourth day. I feel pretty good and only on my fourth injection and have noticed some strength gains already.

 

[bicepts101]

ok guys lets talk of test and their side effects real quick

simply put, this is the order of the most common testosteron and sides effects...
suspension....highest
prop
enanth
cyp
deconate...lowest

which one is gonna cause the most the least sides and why?...simple, susp is the hardest to keep stable cause its practically like taking an oral, its out of the body so quick. optimal use for susp would probably be 2x per day but who wants to do that....so you really only see people using susp that dont get gyno or barely get gyno. someone like me would turn into a women on that compound...but it works great for some. so susp for users that arent prone is no prob...ie galaxy....is one multiple compounds with no anti e...if im not mistaken....

now prop is a much better choice as we all know cause you can get blood levels fairly stable with EOD injects..optimal use would ed injects IMO but EOD is not much different being that, in theory it peaks on about the middle of the second day..prop bloats less, less sides.

enanth and cyp are super similar, separated half-lives by only one day. it can be injected twice a week for optimal use. once a week with these even will suffice but i would just go twice to keep as stable as possible.

 

[LVTitan]

so the guy doesnt like sust, who cares?....i dont like test period....does that make me stupid...it gives me gyno...i use low doses...>200mg.....different things work for different people bro

here ye here ye, i am not a big fan of sust either... didnt notice the gains i did w/test e. it may not have been that good though it was vet shit that time.. regardless, not everyone responds as well with sust.
and bicepts...word up g, you only need to shoot sust 1x week if you want to, i do 2xweek just because, but there is no need to do it more often. u right.
good thread though homie, you seem to have got a lot of input.
titaN

 

[chyllaxyn]

ok guys lets talk of test and their side effects real quick

You have more patience than I do

Good post, at least for me. I am currently running Organon sust at 1ml every fourth day.

Are you stacking with something else? I'm do omna the same way, by it'self, same results, took about 3 weeks too, which is very normal.

didnt notice the gains i did w/test e. it may not have been that good though it was vet shit that time.. regardless, not everyone responds as well with sust.

sorry bro I missed something , are you saying sust "it may not have been that good though it was vet shit that time" ?? There is no such thing as vet sust , someone may be making it UG but I doubt it. Why take the time to create a 4 test blend UG ? There must me a reason they make it though, and I'm guessing that's why most people get good gains , see : http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/sustanon-250.htm

 

[The Terminator]

yes bro and this is true....

people seem to think you have to shoot it like prop cause it has prop in it....once a week will suffice...so will twice...i prefer twice my self

and here terminator reiterates the fact that it IS important to have stable blood levels....with sust this is eastier than any other test to acheive because of it unique ester combination

To "optimize" the faster acting Prop and PhenlyProp in Sust. more frequent injections would be preferred, but certainly not required...
But Sust. was NOT made with bodybuilder in mind , it was made for HRT patients...

 

[The Terminator]

so is this having to do with genetics and receptors?

No, it has to do with half lives and no matter how much you are shooting you are still excreting some as times goes on as well...

I cant make up a complicated mathematical chart to detail it, but basically blood levels will rise indefinitely with so many injections, but at some point (unless the doses are going UP AND UP FOREVER!!) you WILL level off...

 

[chyllaxyn]

But Sust. was NOT made with bodybuilder in mind , it was made for HRT patients...

True that but most test is not made with bodybuilder in mind. (cept UG)
I believe the blends are a good base but I also believe those who say they see better gains from single esters. It's a matter of preference and usage I guess.
My problem was with those who say blends are total bunk, we know that is BS.

Good advise though , I agree with what you're saying...

 

[n1tro]

Test Prop is the best.

 

[Madcow2]

To "optimize" the faster acting Prop and PhenlyProp in Sust. more frequent injections would be preferred, but certainly not required...
But Sust. was NOT made with bodybuilder in mind , it was made for HRT patients...

I'm fairly sure Sust was designed for longer term injections than weekly - actually I'm nearly positive this was the purpose of the design, I just don't have a source to quote. The idea was that the esters gave you test gradually over the whole time period. This is being eroneously applied by people pumping the once weekly method (which does make you grow - you just get substandard fluctuations in levels and there is no denying this).

One you start getting into weekly injections rather than longer term allowing gradual dissipation of each ester this is where the more frequent than intended injection of short esters starts to play an issue as the intended activity periods start overlapping. Since no one would makes decent gains injecting every 3-4 weeks and using the ester system as designed, you are left with the short ester problem on weekly injects and you either accept it or you increase your injection frequency. Personally, test is test and most newbs would be better served avoiding the whole deal and using a single ester.

 

[wls8687]

sust is a great tool and if this eod day shit i mean 250 to 500mgs or even 700mgs is more thna enough when u r running deca or dbol with it try it and be patiant becasue it is gonna bee like 3 weeks or more before you see results but why donesn't anyone have patience anymore it is like people wnat 25 lbs 2morrow or it is not goodenough i mean this is something that takes time effort and a lot of hard work lets not forget that

Hah.. you type funny rao..

 

[bicepts101]

But Sust. was NOT made with bodybuilder in mind , it was made for HRT patients...

BAM!!...exactly bro....and wheres my karma focker?...i blasted u

 

[bicepts101]

good imput guys...i gave karma to all i could and who deserved it


anyone have anything else?

 

[Madcow2]

Sustanon 250 is made for a single injection every 3 weeks. This is how the ester blend was designed. It was not designed to have weekly injections and layers stacked on each other in higher concentrations. It was designed specifically for the purpose of evening blood levels. Links are below including information directly from Organon as recently as May 2003.

Now whether or not someone reads this and still chooses to inject once per week - I don't really care. Obviously there is fluctuation in blood levels and not even a mg to mg comparison between the esters is possible without adjusting for weight as this does not take into account that there is more testosterone per mg in the shorter esters. As to whether this matters, this was the whole purpose in designing the drug - to even out these levels over the activity period. Take from that what you will. You will still grow off of it, uneven levels won't kill you, I'm not saying Sustanon is evil. What I have said before and continue to say is that more frequently someone running a cycle would obtain greater utility from a single ester, particularly those using lower dosages where it is infeesible to inject S250 more than once or twice a week.

What I do care about is someone saying, "But Sustanon was designed for weekly injections so it's okay," because obvioiusly that is wrong, has always been wrong, and those saying it don't have a clue (or IMO common sense as there would be no decanoate ester included in a weekly preparation). So here are the links for those too lazy to type in 'Sustanon Hormone Replacement' into google. Do not say that it was made for weekly injections again. Weekly injections are 3x the frequency designed for and this is why there is an issue.

2ng Page of this Organon Leaflet PDF on Sustanon - give it a read
http://emc.medicines.org.uk/emc/assets/c/html/displaydoc.asp?documentid=5202

http://tcrc.acor.org/hrt.html
"Now lets get this straight. There are those who can get Sustanon 250 and those who cannot. North Americans are unable to get Sustanon 250 prescribed. For the remainder of the world, Sustanon 250 does a very good job of providing hormone replacement over a three week injection cycle. Of course, Sustanon 250 isn't the only drug available in the rest of the world. Most of those available in North America can be found world wide as well, though the names may not be the same. "

http://emc.medicines.org.uk/emc/assets/c/html/displaydoc.asp?documentid=5164#INDICATIONS
"4.2 Posology and method of administration
Dosage
In general, dosage should be adjusted to the individual response of the patient.
Adults:
Usually, one injection of 1ml per three weeks is adequate."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone_replacement_therapy_(trans)
"Sustanon is a formulation that mixes shorter acting and longer acting testosterone preparations that gives more even levels of testosterone with injections given every three weeks."

 

[The Terminator]

Sustanon 250 is made for a single injection every 3 weeks. This is how the ester blend was designed. It was not designed to have weekly injections and layers stacked on each other in higher concentrations.

I thought it WAS designed for an injection every 3 weeks...
Now for the BB'er this wont serve much purpose (with their goals in mind ), but since Sust WASNT made with them in mind those using it have to try and work around that...(or do as most said and use a single esterfied test instead...)