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The French Connection

Spidey

New member
There is an interesting article in the New York Times that everyone should read. It details how the French have been secretly brokering deals between China and Syria to sell solid missile propellants and binders to Iraq in DIRECT defiance of the UN sanctions. No wonder they don't want us to go in there. Why, they could be exposed as the duplicitous hypocrites they are. How embarrassing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/13/opinion/13SAFI.html

I know this thread will soon be moved to the chat board but I know many on the anabolic board (like myself) never go there and I wanted you all to see this.

OK, flame away.

-Spidey
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OK, the link didn't come out. How does one post links on the board? I guess you can cut and paste and get there that way. Sorry for the inconvenience.

-Spidey
 
One could say - so what?
So what if the French brokered deals - we know that many UN nations have been brokering and selling directly all sorts of goodies to all sorts of lunatic regimes both with overt and suspected links to all kinds of terroist activities. It's all just another example of how money is the bottom line - not common sense nor morality.
Further - even tho the French, it must be said are 'posturing' for want of a better word at least they are showing what can happen when the UN doesn't act in the way it's 'leading light' would like it to. Let's see what the US does now - I'll bet you a few amps of test Bush goes into Iraq a/with or without UN sanction and b/without either the majority of his own nation's or other peoples' wishes.

Anyways - how is this going to help my training?
 
bigjaw said:
I'll bet you a few amps of test Bush goes into Iraq a/with or without UN sanction and b/without either the majority of his own nation's or other peoples' wishes.

Anyways - how is this going to help my training?
Actually, all the polls I have seen (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) show that the majority of Americans (55%) are for going into Iraq with or without UN sanction.

It won't help your training at all :D . Like I said previously, I know a lot of my friends on this board never go to the chat board and I wanted them to see this. Don't worry about it though, I am sure the thread will be moved before long.

Incidently, I don't see what the big deal is about off-topic posts. If you don't want to "waste your time" reading off-topic stuff, just don't open and read obviously off-topic threads. Problem solved.

-Spidey
 
Kynoselen comes from france. Lets not be so hastey, I need to stock up first.
 
The truth is that, contrary to your assertions or even those of the New York Times, France may not actually be in violation of the U.N. Sanctions by doing this as the sanctions, do, in fact, allow Iraq to develop and possess missles that have a fly range of 93 miles or less. Maybe you need to research this before you go pointing fingers and yelling hypocracy and violation of U.N. sanctions!!! Like the U.S. hasn't violated U.N. resolutions or even the Geneva Conventions in very recent times? What does this make us? Technically war criminals if you know anything about international law and post World War II history.

As for the allowable missle distance, this distance was determined to make sure that they couldn't reach Israel or other targets the U.S. deemed important to us. The present discussion over the Al Samoud missles has to do with the fact that the missles that they did end up producing, did, in fact, exceed the allowable fly distance "somewhat." Iraq has now come around and after resisting doing so has now agreed to destroy them. So to recap, Iraq is technically allowed to purchase AND produce these things but they are not allowed to use them to manufacture a missle that exceeds certain tightly specified parameters. These technical parameters go down to the minutia of even how strong a missle engine test stand can be to make sure they can't test anything too powerful. So before you accuse the French or anyone else for hypocracy (and I am not denying that they are hypocrites like everyone else either), maybe you should be looking at the Bush administration straight up, he's as guilty as all of them. Don't forget about all the "manufactured" but latter discredited pieces of "hard evidence" against Iraq that suddenly were proven to be misquotes of what UN inspection reports actually said or were completely manufactured and had no basis in fact like the papers from Niger. So where was the corporate New York Times in investigative reporting there? They simply took the fascist Bush administrations propoganda at face value and printed it and didn't bother even looking up the reports to read for themselves or they would have been the ones to have broken the story. Great investigative reporting on the part of the so-called "mainstream" media!!! That's why I prefer NOT to get my news from the conservative corporate owned media [or should we call it for what it is--propoganda that the reader is stupid enough to actually pay for!!!]. They simply do not give anything close to ALL the facts. It is better to research your news out from a variety of foreign and domestic sources to form a more valid and broader perspective of the BS that is really going on. And yes, that includes reading stuff that you really disagree with too. Sometimes your opponents have valid points and accurate information as well!

But the truth is that Bush and his fascist oil executive cronies/cohorts could give a rat's behind about what you or I think or even what the American public thinks. He is going to do what he is going to do with you or without you on board. The only thing you need to worry about is how much "tighter" because of the war on terror things are going to get on trying to get workout supplements. Afterall, it was HIS father that signed the bill into law criminalizing anything anabolic against the unanimous testimony of the panels consisting of the both DEA AND the FDA who saw no purpose in imposing criminal penalties (like prison) on stuff that people used on themselves at that time.

Now that I had my ten minutes to rant, I am also left wondering how all of this is going to help me get bigger AND leaner as well!!!
 
"Actually, all the polls I have seen (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) show that the majority of Americans (55%) are for going into Iraq with or without UN sanction. "

Hmmm..........all conservative corporate media sources...........did you ever wonder how they determine who is actually included in the poll and who isn't? And how they actually determine "who is representative" of the American "cross section?" Funny thing is that I don't know a single person now or throughout the course of my life that was ever included in one of their so called "official" polls............any fool knows that statistics can be manipulated to demonstrate many things...even things that completely contradict each other if not carefully done..........Polls can also be biased just by the way the question is presented and what the "allowable" answer choices are restricted too.......this is aside from any bias by how the "population" is actually "scientifically" determined and selected............
 
bros - while my body may not be gettin bigger you appear to be broadening my mind and expanding my vocab...
 
NorCalBdyBldr said:
The truth is that, contrary to your assertions or even those of the New York Times, France may not actually be in violation of the U.N. Sanctions by doing this as the sanctions, do, in fact, allow Iraq to develop and possess missles that have a fly range of 93 miles or less. Maybe you need to research this before you go pointing fingers and yelling hypocracy and violation of U.N. sanctions!!! Like the U.S. hasn't violated U.N. resolutions or even the Geneva Conventions in very recent times? What does this make us? Technically war criminals if you know anything about international law and post World War II history.

As for the allowable missle distance, this distance was determined to make sure that they couldn't reach Israel or other targets the U.S. deemed important to us. The present discussion over the Al Samoud missles has to do with the fact that the missles that they did end up producing, did, in fact, exceed the allowable fly distance "somewhat." Iraq has now come around and after resisting doing so has now agreed to destroy them. So to recap, Iraq is technically allowed to purchase AND produce these things but they are not allowed to use them to manufacture a missle that exceeds certain tightly specified parameters. These technical parameters go down to the minutia of even how strong a missle engine test stand can be to make sure they can't test anything too powerful. So before you accuse the French or anyone else for hypocracy (and I am not denying that they are hypocrites like everyone else either), maybe you should be looking at the Bush administration straight up, he's as guilty as all of them. Don't forget about all the "manufactured" but latter discredited pieces of "hard evidence" against Iraq that suddenly were proven to be misquotes of what UN inspection reports actually said or were completely manufactured and had no basis in fact like the papers from Niger. So where was the corporate New York Times in investigative reporting there? They simply took the fascist Bush administrations propoganda at face value and printed it and didn't bother even looking up the reports to read for themselves or they would have been the ones to have broken the story. Great investigative reporting on the part of the so-called "mainstream" media!!! That's why I prefer NOT to get my news from the conservative corporate owned media [or should we call it for what it is--propoganda that the reader is stupid enough to actually pay for!!!]. They simply do not give anything close to ALL the facts. It is better to research your news out from a variety of foreign and domestic sources to form a more valid and broader perspective of the BS that is really going on. And yes, that includes reading stuff that you really disagree with too. Sometimes your opponents have valid points and accurate information as well!

But the truth is that Bush and his fascist oil executive cronies/cohorts could give a rat's behind about what you or I think or even what the American public thinks. He is going to do what he is going to do with you or without you on board. The only thing you need to worry about is how much "tighter" because of the war on terror things are going to get on trying to get workout supplements. Afterall, it was HIS father that signed the bill into law criminalizing anything anabolic against the unanimous testimony of the panels consisting of the both DEA AND the FDA who saw no purpose in imposing criminal penalties (like prison) on stuff that people used on themselves at that time.

Now that I had my ten minutes to rant, I am also left wondering how all of this is going to help me get bigger AND leaner as well!!!
Wow, That's a pretty long read, LOL. OK, did you actually READ the article? I tend to think not or you would have seen that the propellants and binders in question are for the production of long range missiles in violation of the UN sanctions. Apparently, shorter range missiles do not require the same binders and propellants. Secondly, even if the materials could be used in short range missiles, which are allowed, selling these materials to Iraq IS in violation of the UN sanctions because all sales of these materials must be first approved by the UN security council. Maybe you are the one that needs to bone up on this stuff before accusing me of accusing others, etc.

Also, please enlighten me as to exactly which UN sanctions the USA has violated recently. Please be specific as to which ones we first claimed to be all for and then under the table did the exact opposite, like France appears to have done.

The contention that the media is controlled by "evil" conservative forces is laughable. With the exception of perhaps Fox and one or two others, the mainstream media is very liberal minded. Think of all the big names like Dan Rather, Ted Koppel, and others. They are all quite liberal.

Perhaps you should take your own advice and get news from many sources INCLUDING those you consider conservative. In your own words, your opponents can have valid points and accurate information as well; even if you disagree with them.

I have to go for now but I will log on again later to continue this debate (assuming the thread hasn't been moved). There is still many points I dissagree with in your previous reply. I simply don't have the time at this moment to address them all.

-Spidey
 
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