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the final verdict please??for people who have injected and drank zambons?

sicklydiesel

New member
I ran a search and i found some conflicting posts, is there anyone that can say for 100% sure that drinking is as effective as shooting winny?..i can see how some might like injecting better for site growth , bbut what about for overall gains, are they equal?
 
Injecting is more effective. That's a waste of Zambons.

Got this off of Brock Strasser's column on T - Mag


Q: There's this huge debate raging over whether or not you can "drink" your Winny-V. I know that because stanozolol is 17-AA'ed, I can use it orally. However, how much more or less effective is oral stanozolol over injected stanozolol? I hear that you need about twice as much stanozolol orally as you would injected to see similar results. How was this figure of doubling the dose orally determined?

A: There isn't a lot of great pharmacokinetic data in humans comparing oral to parenteral (injectable) stanozolol. So that idea of "if you use X amount by injection you need twice as much orally" is anecdotal and speculative at best. The best I could find is a study comparing the two methods of administration in dogs. My comments come after the abstract:

The effect of stanozolol on 15-nitrogen retention in the dog

Can J Vet Res 2000 Oct;64(4):246-8 (ISSN: 0830-9000)

Olson ME; Morck DW; Quinn KB [Find other articles with these Authors] Animal Health Unit and Gastrointestinal Sciences, University of Calgary, Alberta.

The objective of the study was to determine the influence of either oral or intramuscular administration of stanozolol on nitrogen retention in dogs by using a non-invasive 15N-amino acid tracer technique. Ten healthy, intact, adult male sled dogs received either stanozolol tablets, 2 mg/dog PO, q12h, for 25 days (Group 1, n = 5) or an intramuscular injection of 25 mg of stanozolol on Days 7, 14, 21, and 28 (Group 2, n = 5). A 15N amino acid (5.27 mmol) was infused intravenously into each dog on Day 0 (before stanozolol treatment) and on Day 31 (after stanozolol treatment). Urine was collected by catheterization from each animal 3 times daily for 3 consecutive days. The 15N-urea enrichment in urine was determined by high-resolution mass spectrometry and the total amount of urea in the urine was determined.

Both oral and injectable stanozolol resulted in significant (P < 0.05) increases in amino acid nitrogen retention compared to pretreatment values. Oral stanozolol increased nitrogen retention from 29.2 +/- 8.2% to 50.3 +/- 9.2%, while stanozolol injection increased nitrogen retention from 26.6 +/- 9.9% to 67.0 +/- 7.5%. The response to intramuscular administration was significantly greater than the response to the oral dosing regime. Stanozolol increases amino acid nitrogen retention in dogs, as has been previously observed in rats. This action of stanozolol may be beneficial in dogs under stress of surgical trauma and chronic disease.

Okay, so the oral dose was 28mg/week and the injected dose was 25mg/week. And the injected dose was far better at increasing nitrogen retention (67.0% versus 50.3%). This makes it about 33.2% better (roughly speaking), so if I extrapolate, it means to see the same effects as 25mg of injected stanozolol per week, you'd need to take about 38mg of it orally.

This isn't quite "twice the injected dose" and is, in fact, closer to 50% (52% or so actually). So if you assume the dog model is correct, or nearly so in other mammals like humans, you'd need about 50% more stanozolol orally than you would if you injected it. So if you used 50mg of injected Winstrol every other day, it would be a safe bet to assume 37.5mg of stanozolol used orally every day would provide a similar effect.
 
genarr3 said:
Injecting is more effective. That's a waste of Zambons.

Got this off of Brock Strasser's column on T - Mag


Q: There's this huge debate raging over whether or not you can "drink" your Winny-V. I know that because stanozolol is 17-AA'ed, I can use it orally. However, how much more or less effective is oral stanozolol over injected stanozolol? I hear that you need about twice as much stanozolol orally as you would injected to see similar results. How was this figure of doubling the dose orally determined?

A: There isn't a lot of great pharmacokinetic data in humans comparing oral to parenteral (injectable) stanozolol. So that idea of "if you use X amount by injection you need twice as much orally" is anecdotal and speculative at best. The best I could find is a study comparing the two methods of administration in dogs. My comments come after the abstract:

The effect of stanozolol on 15-nitrogen retention in the dog

Can J Vet Res 2000 Oct;64(4):246-8 (ISSN: 0830-9000)

Olson ME; Morck DW; Quinn KB [Find other articles with these Authors] Animal Health Unit and Gastrointestinal Sciences, University of Calgary, Alberta.

The objective of the study was to determine the influence of either oral or intramuscular administration of stanozolol on nitrogen retention in dogs by using a non-invasive 15N-amino acid tracer technique. Ten healthy, intact, adult male sled dogs received either stanozolol tablets, 2 mg/dog PO, q12h, for 25 days (Group 1, n = 5) or an intramuscular injection of 25 mg of stanozolol on Days 7, 14, 21, and 28 (Group 2, n = 5). A 15N amino acid (5.27 mmol) was infused intravenously into each dog on Day 0 (before stanozolol treatment) and on Day 31 (after stanozolol treatment). Urine was collected by catheterization from each animal 3 times daily for 3 consecutive days. The 15N-urea enrichment in urine was determined by high-resolution mass spectrometry and the total amount of urea in the urine was determined.

Both oral and injectable stanozolol resulted in significant (P < 0.05) increases in amino acid nitrogen retention compared to pretreatment values. Oral stanozolol increased nitrogen retention from 29.2 +/- 8.2% to 50.3 +/- 9.2%, while stanozolol injection increased nitrogen retention from 26.6 +/- 9.9% to 67.0 +/- 7.5%. The response to intramuscular administration was significantly greater than the response to the oral dosing regime. Stanozolol increases amino acid nitrogen retention in dogs, as has been previously observed in rats. This action of stanozolol may be beneficial in dogs under stress of surgical trauma and chronic disease.

Okay, so the oral dose was 28mg/week and the injected dose was 25mg/week. And the injected dose was far better at increasing nitrogen retention (67.0% versus 50.3%). This makes it about 33.2% better (roughly speaking), so if I extrapolate, it means to see the same effects as 25mg of injected stanozolol per week, you'd need to take about 38mg of it orally.

This isn't quite "twice the injected dose" and is, in fact, closer to 50% (52% or so actually). So if you assume the dog model is correct, or nearly so in other mammals like humans, you'd need about 50% more stanozolol orally than you would if you injected it. So if you used 50mg of injected Winstrol every other day, it would be a safe bet to assume 37.5mg of stanozolol used orally every day would provide a similar effect.

I don't get the 52% difference. Oral yields 0.503 p/mg while Injected yields 0.67 p/mg that is a 33.2% difference p/mg
 
ryce said:


I don't get the 52% difference. Oral yields 0.503 p/mg while Injected yields 0.67 p/mg that is a 33.2% difference p/mg

What I don't get is the conclusion Brock Strasser draw saying it is a 52% difference. I made my own calculations and found 33.2%

Any math geeks online?
 
its really not a fair comparison.

the oral was given twice per day, 12 hrs apart.
the inject was done ONCE per wk.

the measurements were both done on the 31st day. that means the:
oral groups last dose was 4mg, and then a 6 day break before the test was done.
the inj last dose was 25mg, and only a 3 day break before the test.

im not sure how long the effects of nitrogen retention are kept after the discontinuation, but as far as half lives go, this study didnt really pay any attention to this critical component.
 
That is without a doubt one of the worse studies I have ever seen. Actually read it and you will see why the conclusions are predetermined. Superchicken has already picked out several.
 
personally, I don't understand the debate... to me, if its even possible that injecting is more effective, then thats how I would go...

However, when I was juicing, injection was the high point of my day... I think I may have subconsciously opted to use fast-acting esters just so I could stick myself ED... I know I am not alone on this one...as such is the life of a juicehead
 
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