The Box Squat

[PolishHammer1977]

We all do them so why not a thread on em'. Here are my rules, please add your own as this thread progresses. The only thing I ask is to allow me to paste 3 pics on here demonstrating the low box. Here we go;

0-fill your belly with as much air as possible
1-arch barbell off rack
2-maintain arch throughout entire duration of exercise
3-spread knees out through duration of exercise
4-spread the floor with your feet
5-sit BACK onto the box
6-pause on the box
7-flex off with the glutes


Here come 3 pics from my last box squat session. Enjoy and participate. Thanx Warriors.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
1-Notice the ARCH and solid starting position;
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/gallery/35222/efaf98db2eac3a61946ca0282ae6ddd4.jpg

2-Sitting BACK and not down. forcing the knees OUT!
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/gallery/35222/10c4a583ccb72d42c58230673f592357.jpg

3-Flexing off the box with the glutes for maximal contraction.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/gallery/35222/9abb957a84dfbde7c94da3a37bd2b037.jpg

 

[Liftbig]

not bad,

but i wouldnt really say you pause on the box, you just relax your hips for a split second.

and remember to flew off the box the first thing you do and to remember to flex your back, then hips.......etc.

 

[Cuthbert]

PH + Liftbig = solid box squat technique

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

kinda hard to tell from that pic-- but your knees look really wide--like sumo stance or so. On box squats-- my stance is narrower- like shoulder width...is that wrong???

 

[b fold the truth]

Don't you want to maintain that arch...even once you have come off the box and stood up with it???

B True

 

[rbrown]

kinda hard to tell from that pic-- but your knees look really wide--like sumo stance or so. On box squats-- my stance is narrower- like shoulder width...is that wrong???

box squats work better wide. I believe the wide stance will allow almost anyone to get more weight than they could otherwise--maybe not initially, but with training. It is almost impossible to have the proper joint angles (i.e. knees at greater than 90 degrees when on the box) with a narrow stance.

 

[rbrown]

the following is an old video I have of box squats; I think this was a warm up set, but you get the idea.

http://www.angelfire.com/tn3/ryanbrown/12-21-02/315bandboxsquat.wmv

 

[Tweakle]

The box squat is something I've never tried. I guess the old HIT dogma dies hard. I'd like to try them but the pelvic tilt most people seem to display coming off the box worries me a little - is that the way the lift's supposed to be done?

What kind of strength level would you say a trainee should be at in the squat before adding box squats to their program, could adding what seems a very specialised lift into a program too soon be counterproductive?

 

[cheesecake]

I would add not to rock forward and to drive your neck into the bar when you come off of the box.
...chad...

 

[b fold the truth]

Box squats also incorporate the hips and hip flexors and erectors MUCH more than regular squats...especially when they are done wide stanced.

Tweakle: If I were teaching someone to squat...I'd teach them with the box.

B True

 

[cheesecake]

Tweakle: If I were teaching someone to squat...I'd teach them with the box.

Agreed.

Besides being a great exercise in and of themselves, they also teach you how to squat properly.
...chad...

 

[BigWh1tey]

1) chest up
2) head driven back into bar
3) arch as hard as possible, elbows pushing forward
4) Belly against belt
5) ass out
6) rip the floor apart
7) break at the hips
8) sit back back back
9) slight deload on the box
10) explode off the box.... ass, hams and hips
11) lead with the chest up

 

[PolishHammer1977]

Excellent additions everyone. I hope this thread can really make a positive impact on training all around.

Thanx guys!!

 

[PolishHammer1977]

kinda hard to tell from that pic-- but your knees look really wide--like sumo stance or so. On box squats-- my stance is narrower- like shoulder width...is that wrong???

I take a W I D E stance on my box squats. My feet are pressed against the power rack. This W I D E stance enables me to recruit my hips into the movement more.

My advice to you MSBH would be to try and inch yourself out more each time you squat on the box. If you feel your knees coming in with the eccentric or concentric movements, use the abductor machine in the gym. Use it for high rep sets,verylow weight every day for two weeks. This will negate the hip weakness you have and over time will allow you to box squat wider and wider.

I did use this technique myself and since I do not have the machine available tome I used a jumpstretch band. Much better IMO bc as you sit lower and push outward with your knees on the band you will feel more of a hip recruitment. Most machines are built ONE way. Ahhh, the beauty of bands.

I hope that helped.

 

[sk*]

Great thread!

-sk

 

[spatts]

For periformis work, I prefer to use a doubled mini band wrapped around the knees. The fault with "gym abductor and adductor machines" is that they don't force hip strength in the properplane. You need to have your hips lower than your knees to do this optimally. There are no gym machines set up that way that I know of.

As bigwh1tey mentioned, the first thing to move should be your head, back in to the bar.

...and you should end with the same arch you started with.

 

[Cuthbert]

For periformis work, I prefer to use a doubled mini band wrapped around the knees. The fault with "gym abductor and adductor machines" is that they don't force hip strength in the properplane. You need to have your hips lower than your knees to do this optimally. There are no gym machines set up that way that I know of.

rbrown and I use these machines anyway. They may not be optimum... but we have both noticed very positive results from doing them.

I know I have had less trouble with knees coming in, it used to be an issue for me.

Cuthbert

 

[leatherface]

Why do you put it in an arch like that? I position myself the same as my squat, except i take a wider stance and sit BACK. Just trying to understand here

 

[spatts]

Cuthbert, don't get me wrong, it's a great exercise. It's just that most machines don't "break parallel." So I've seen some people increase their hips strength and flexibility on those machines, but only to the same degree as the depth of the machine. Once they get really low, it still gets harder and harder to spread them. The difference with the bands and sitting below parallel is that you're increasing strength and flexibility in an even lower plane than the machines can. It's a great option for those that don't have access to a machine too. I also think the bands are harder! Plus they rip out leg hair, if you have any, and that builds character.

 

[Cuthbert]

Cuthbert, don't get me wrong, it's a great exercise. It's just that most machines don't "break parallel." So I've seen some people increase their hips strength and flexibility on those machines, but only to the same degree as the depth of the machine. Once they get really low, it still gets harder and harder to spread them. The difference with the bands and sitting below parallel is that you're increasing strength and flexibility in an even lower plane than the machines can. It's a great option for those that don't have access to a machine too. I also think the bands are harder! Plus they rip out leg hair, if you have any, and that builds character.

I HAVE been meaning to try the bands wrapped around my knees... but I am just a baby

 

[rbrown]

For periformis work, I prefer to use a doubled mini band wrapped around the knees. The fault with "gym abductor and adductor machines" is that they don't force hip strength in the properplane. You need to have your hips lower than your knees to do this optimally. There are no gym machines set up that way that I know of.

As bigwh1tey mentioned, the first thing to move should be your head, back in to the bar.

...and you should end with the same arch you started with.

I'll check next time we go to the gym, but I believe that on ours your hips are lower than the knees; just lower the seat and put your knees on the upper part of the pad. Different strokes for different people, but I personally didn't think the band was getting me much--too easy until the very last part of the movement. I'm using the stack on our machines now for about 20 reps and holding them static at the out position. Cuthbert and I started doing these after I saw that Brent Mikesell did them. When we are done with them, we can barely walk around. I can't argue with his or our results.

 

[spatts]

I think the key to making the bands resistant through the whole movement is starting with your feet wide. At the beginning of the movement, my feet are like 3 feet apart and my knees are together, so I immediately start feeling resistance that just increases until I get my knees over where my feet are. Then I like to hold it for as long as I can too, because you're in the bottom of the squat for a while sometimes, especially in a box squat.

In terms of difficulty, I don't know anyone that can do it with a doubled pink.

 

[rbrown]

I think the key to making the bands resistant through the whole movement is starting with your feet wide. At the beginning of the movement, my feet are like 3 feet apart and my knees are together, so I immediately start feeling resistance that just increases until I get my knees over where my feet are. Then I like to hold it for as long as I can too, because you're in the bottom of the squat for a while sometimes, especially in a box squat.

In terms of difficulty, I don't know anyone that can do it with a doubled pink.

good idea; I have not done them like that--now you've got me curious about how hard a double pink would be.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

For periformis work, I prefer to use a doubled mini band wrapped around the knees. The fault with "gym abductor and adductor machines" is that they don't force hip strength in the properplane. You need to have your hips lower than your knees to do this optimally. There are no gym machines set up that way that I know of.

Thank you for elaborating on what I have already posted. This may have made it easier to understand for most.

 

[spatts]

I don't think I elaborated on what you said, so much as contradicted it.

...but you're welcome.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

I don't think I elaborated on what you said, so much as contradicted it.

...but you're welcome.

You DID elaborate SPATTS.

Honestly, I'm here to help. No reason to argue or look for things to pick at either. C'mon now???
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A simple "your welcome" would have been due without attempting to make yourself look "mighty". It doesn't make sense to me. Things like this make me not want to post here anymore.

 

[spatts]

PH, I have no idea what you're talking about. I was just pointing out that the paragraph you quoted me on was in opposition to what you said. If you can't participate in a debate without taking things personally, then yes, you should post elsewhere.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

PH, I have no idea what you're talking about. I was just pointing out that the paragraph you quoted me on was in opposition to what you said. If you can't participate in a debate without taking things personally, then yes, you should post elsewhere.

You know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

 

[Mike_Rojas]

Truce

 

[BodybuildingUniverse]

(burp)

hey hammer, is that box stable enough when using the big weights? Looks like a coffee table man....

just kidding ya, but I usually see em with sides on them, would hate to see the lid give out on you mid set

 

[PolishHammer1977]

(burp)

hey hammer, is that box stable enough when using the big weights? Looks like a coffee table man....

just kidding ya, but I usually see em with sides on them, would hate to see the lid give out on you mid set

Image: http://logo.cafepress.com/3/352230.56683.jpg

When TEC built the box I know he built it with durability in mind. It is made out of wood and I can assure it is NOT a coffee table.

Thanx for the concern but I can assure you it HOLDS.

 

[sk*]

Hammer says:

"I did use this technique myself and since I do not have the machine available tome I used a jumpstretch band. Much better IMO bc as you sit lower and push outward with your knees on the band you will feel more of a hip recruitment. Most machines are built ONE way. Ahhh, the beauty of bands. "

Spatts says:

"I think the key to making the bands resistant through the whole movement is starting with your feet wide. At the beginning of the movement, my feet are like 3 feet apart and my knees are together, so I immediately start feeling resistance that just increases until I get my knees over where my feet are. Then I like to hold it for as long as I can too, because you're in the bottom of the squat for a while sometimes, especially in a box squat. "

---

Hmm, looks the same to me.

-sk

 

[Liftbig]

thats what i was typing and decided not to. i agree. i dont really see the debate.

polish suggested an exercise and the alternative to that exercise and why he likes it better.

and spatts made alot of good points on why that exercise is in fact better.

 

[spatts]

Yes, I was agreeing with the point of the bands and disagreeing with the point of the machines. My intention in my reply was not to ensue power, but to make sure that those reading the thread do not think I was advocating that machines are just as good bands (IMO). Nothing more, nothing less. There's no deeper meaning to what I said.

 

[spatts]

Liftbig, there's no point in going in to this on the thread. My statement was not an attack, but PH took it that way because of a recent personal event. That's his issue, not mine.

You're right, there's no debate.

 

[Liftbig]

can we all have a group hug now?

 

[PolishHammer1977]

Liftbig, there's no point in going in to this on the thread. My statement was not an attack, but PH took it that way because of a recent personal event. That's his issue, not mine.

You're right, there's no debate.

This is not true. This is also very, very sad.

 

[bignate73]

can we all have a group hug now?

only if i can take my shoes off!

 

[spatts]

This is not true. This is also very, very sad.

Yes, it is very sad. I hope you find some peace soon.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

Since I have incorporated "box squats" into my strength training routine I have noticed a couple VERY positive things;

1-stronger hips, hamstrings, and glutes
2-increased flexibility

I have also noticed that I have been able to set PR's every Sunday on strongman events. I know that this exercise is helping me do so.

 

[Mike_Rojas]

I've got to start doing box squats again. I just have gotten realllly frustrated in the past. Can't sit back with a baby weight, really pisses me off. Anyway, I guess I'll start on a higher box and work my way down. And do those band exercises.

 

[sk*]

I've got to start doing box squats again. I just have gotten realllly frustrated in the past. Can't sit back with a baby weight, really pisses me off. Anyway, I guess I'll start on a higher box and work my way down. And do those band exercises.

It isn't easy for me too actually. I think I just sit down a lot of times instead of back, takes practice I guess.

Also, my knees would come out a lot even with very light weight. Using the bands for hip abductors and starting with very light weight on box squats has definetely helped me a lot in the last month.

-sk

 

[PolishHammer1977]

I've got to start doing box squats again. I just have gotten realllly frustrated in the past. Can't sit back with a baby weight, really pisses me off. Anyway, I guess I'll start on a higher box and work my way down. And do those band exercises.

The band exercises will help you activate the hips. I know you can squat free standing Mike but squatting this way will take some special activation and patience.

The weights will be there. They will always be heavy. 45 lbs is still going to be 45 lbs. When you spend your time on the higher box, gradually move down to a lower box. Time tells in this box squat game. If you put in the time you will reap the rewards of strong hips, hamstrings, and glutes along with an increase ion flexibility.

You can do it Mike. I have confidence in you.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

It isn't easy for me too actually. I think I just sit down a lot of times instead of back, takes practice I guess.

Also, my knees would come out a lot even with very light weight. Using the bands for hip abductors and starting with very light weight on box squats has definetely helped me a lot in the last month.

-sk

The first day sk* started with the box his knees were coming in on EVERY set.

What did we do to help him?
I gave him a pair of my jumpstretch mini bands and taught him the hip activation exercise I have mentioned before on this thread.

Wouldn't you know that the same sk* came back 2 weeks later to perform box squats for speed with PERFECT form. Video never lies.

sk* is a true testament that with the right determination, perseverance, and intelligence that any goal can be accomplished. Just wait till' you see what he's doing a year from now!

 

[Liftbig]

.....yeah so lets get this thread back on track....

polish, i have noticed those things as well. for the past year and a half i have done relatively little stretching, however my hip and hamstring flexability is better in some planes than when i played football. wide stance box squats in general have played a large part in that.

mike, with sitting back if you find your self having trouble sitting back far enough you can start with a higher box and gradually work down until your hamstring flexability is up to par, and allows you to sit back on a lower box. keep in mind that you can sit back too far. when you get to the point that it is very difficult to go back anymore, flare your knees out to get to the box.

 

[bignate73]

Also, my knees would come out a lot even with very light weight. Using the bands for hip abductors...

your hip abductors pull your hips out as it is, are you saying you did abduction work to get your hips out or you are doing them to keep them from going out?

 

[sk*]

 

[sk*]

your hip abductors pull your hips out as it is, are you saying you did abduction work to get your hips out or you are doing them to keep them from going out?

My knees would come in, even with 135lbs (sad I know). Working with the band and starting very low helped my knees stay stable. Slowly improving.

-sk

 

[Mike_Rojas]

Just want to make sure I understand the band exercise:

-Sit on a low box with mini-band doubled around your knees
-Spread your feet Wide
-Do a "reverse thigh master" move sitting on the box

Is that right?

 

[PolishHammer1977]

Yes Mike

I would personally recommend 3 sets of 20 reps per day. In 2 weeks your good to go. That's my word.

Give it a go man. Let me know if I am right.

 

[bignate73]

My knees would come in, even with 135lbs (sad I know). Working with the band and starting very low helped my knees stay stable. Slowly improving.

-sk

ah got it!

 

[PolishHammer1977]

Another note people;

The Utah Jazz exclusively use this method of squatting.

 

[rbrown]

I think the key to making the bands resistant through the whole movement is starting with your feet wide. At the beginning of the movement, my feet are like 3 feet apart and my knees are together, so I immediately start feeling resistance that just increases until I get my knees over where my feet are. Then I like to hold it for as long as I can too, because you're in the bottom of the squat for a while sometimes, especially in a box squat.

In terms of difficulty, I don't know anyone that can do it with a doubled pink.

Spatts:

Can you elaborate a little on what you mean by a double pink? I have the pink bands from jump stretch. Do you just double it over so that there are essentially two loops and then put your feet through the loops, bring the band to just above your knees and then spread your feet to 3 feet? When I tried this, there was still some slackness at the very beginning of the movement. It was also fairly easy for me to open my legs with it. My hips are fairly strong, but I feel I may not be doing it as you described. thanks

 

[Liftbig]

while im not spatts i think i can answer your question...

to double the pinks fold a pink band in half and twist so its one loop, not two. now its double the strentgh and half the length on the normal pink band.

 

[rbrown]

while im not spatts i think i can answer your question...

to double the pinks fold a pink band in half and twist so its one loop, not two. now its double the strentgh and half the length on the normal pink band.

yes that is what I meant; we are saying the same thing. I just don't see how that gets you much tension at the first part of the movement. ON the machine, the tension starts from the first inch.

 

[Hannibal]

to double the pinks fold a pink band in half and twist so its one loop, not two. now its double the strentgh and half the length on the normal pink band.

To make it even harder you can then twist it so it is in a figure eight pattern...then put one leg through each hole.

 

[Liftbig]

i cant see how you arent getting enough tension if you are doing it right.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

yes that is what I meant; we are saying the same thing. I just don't see how that gets you much tension at the first part of the movement. ON the machine, the tension starts from the first inch.

Here is what my take on it is;

Most machines are set up 1 way. With that, lets take a minute to think about your depth when you squat........

Now when you are performing this band exercise you should go just a bit lower than the regular bottom portion of your squat (depth).

This will activate the hips more than the machine may and lead your continued level of success.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

i cant see how you arent getting enough tension if you are doing it right.

RBrown;

Did you give it a shot with the doubled pinks?.............

What happened?.......................................................

 

[rjl296]

well, after reading this i have to add something.

the past 2 weeks, ive noticed some major pain in the bottoms of my knees.
never having this before. i wondered what caused it.

then I checked my form on the box squat. sure enough, my knees were coming in, a little

yesterday, i used the minis around my legs, and no pain today. Plus, my quads are so, and they never are sore

 

[rbrown]

RBrown;

Did you give it a shot with the doubled pinks?.............

What happened?.......................................................

Yes.

It was relatively easy. I'm planning to play around with it some more to see what I need to do to get full benefit from the bands. Given that I have not seen a video of the exercise, it is possible that I am doing it wrong, but I don't think so. My hips are what I feel allows me to squat a lot given my leg size, which I don't think is that big.

A question for the group. Everyone seems to take it for granted that it would be best to do this exercise in a position where your hips are below your knees. However, my experience and observation in powerlifting is that if someone's knees are going to come in on them, they generally do so when the competitor begins to struggle, generally at a position just above, or sometimes significantly above parallel. Woudn't it then make sense to at least train this exercise sometimes with the hips above the knees?

Afterall, about 95% of the range of movement on a powerlifting squat is above parallel. Especially if you are using a decent suit and doing box squats, getting out of the hole is a non-issue unless you are simply using way more weight than you are capable of handling.

Thoughts?

 

[Cuthbert]

Yes.

It was relatively easy. I'm planning to play around with it some more to see what I need to do to get full benefit from the bands. Given that I have not seen a video of the exercise, it is possible that I am doing it wrong, but I don't think so. My hips are what I feel allows me to squat a lot given my leg size, which I don't think is that big.

A question for the group. Everyone seems to take it for granted that it would be best to do this exercise in a position where your hips are below your knees. However, my experience and observation in powerlifting is that almost everyone will have their knees come in as they begin to struggle, generally at a position just above, or sometimes significantly above parallel. Woudn't it then make sense to at least train this exercise sometimes with the hips above the knees?

Afterall, about 95% of the range of movement on a powerlifting squat is above parallel. Especially if you are using a decent suit and doing box squats, getting out of the hole is a non-issue unless you are simply using way more weight than you are capable of handling.

Thoughts?

I dont know for sure, but i know that heavy attempts will, or at least used to, make my knees come in from the very start.. it could be that strengthening them in the bottom will prevent it from happening later