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How well do high rep squats or deadlifts work for putting on overall body size?
Im particularily looking for back mass here
Im particularily looking for back mass here
The Best Rep Range and exercise to put on size
- Thread starter SlavikHavik
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slobberknocker
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The most important thing is progressive resistance. Add weight or reps or both each successive workout, and you'll no doubt grow.
Having said that, I much prefer lower reps. I usually stick in the 1-5 range. Sometimes I do 8's.
Having said that, I much prefer lower reps. I usually stick in the 1-5 range. Sometimes I do 8's.
Exactly.
...and since this argument of "bests" always boils down to genetics, I will add the disclaimer that if you have a particular muscle that's only dense in a certain fiber type, you may respond better to the rep range for THAT fiber type. Since most people can't afford, and don't have access to, a place where they can get a biopsy of every muscle, I advocate a well rounded regimen of various rep ranges.
...and since this argument of "bests" always boils down to genetics, I will add the disclaimer that if you have a particular muscle that's only dense in a certain fiber type, you may respond better to the rep range for THAT fiber type. Since most people can't afford, and don't have access to, a place where they can get a biopsy of every muscle, I advocate a well rounded regimen of various rep ranges.
I split mine up...such is Westside. I have a max day and a speed day. Max days are 1 and 3 reppers, speed days are 5-8 rep, ranges. Both days are chased with 12-15 rep range accessory work, and every day has high rep AR. I train for strength, speed, endurance, agility, etc...I happen to get a lot of size too. 
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slobberknocker
Guest
I think I probably have ADD, and that's why I can't do any more than 5 reps in a set, lol. 
How do we know what sort of fiber type is predominent in a particular muscle group? If my quads happened to be primarily slow twitch and would theoretically grow best in the low rep range how would I know? I like the idea of shorter sets but I dont want to take the lazy way out.
How do we know what sort of fiber type is predominent in a particular muscle group?
anya, as I said in my first post, biopsy.
I like the idea of shorter sets but I dont want to take the lazy way out.
Come train with me and I'll show you how "easy' low rep ranges are.
anya, as I said in my first post, biopsy.
I like the idea of shorter sets but I dont want to take the lazy way out.
Come train with me and I'll show you how "easy' low rep ranges are.
That would be the definitive way, but I meant how do we estimate fiber type predominance based on performance. Seems like I've heard of a fairly accurate way of doing this based on the relationship between 1RM of a given exercise and the number of reps possible with a given percentage of RM, say 70%. Is anyone familar with the formula for this approximation?
I said "lazy" not "easy", but your point is taken.
I'm not suggesting that low rep sets arent physically demanding. I understand that they take more focus and attention to form than the traditional 8-12 rep sets. However, for me they are substantially easier since they require me to focus for a much shorter amount of time. Its the time element that makes the difference for me.
gettinlarger
New member
The best rep ranges are found by YOU and YOU only. You have to experiment and see what kind of fibers you've got in your body.
Yes, you can tell by past response to training. My biceps are strong as hell, but don't grow. My quads are huge, but not that strong. My traps grow just thinking about a shrug, while my shoulders just seem to overtrain. All these clue me in. Would be harder for someone new to lifting, I imagine. Unfortunately you'd have to go THROUGH the trial and error before you could learn the things you'd need to know to avoid the trial and error.
An indirect method that can be used in the weight room to determine the fiber composition of a muscle group is to initially establish the 1RM (the greatest weight that they can lift just once) of your athletes. Then have them perform as many repetitions at 80% of 1RM as they can. If they do fewer than seven repetitions, then the muscle group is likely composed of more than 50% FT fibers.
If they can perform 12 or more repetitions, then the muscle group has more than 50% ST fibers. If the athlete can do between 7 and 12 repetitions, then the muscle group probably has an equal proportion of fibers (Pipes, 1994).
The article goes on to make a few general statements for training type based on the result of the estimate. If anyone is interested:
http://www.coachr.org/fiber.htm
If they can perform 12 or more repetitions, then the muscle group has more than 50% ST fibers. If the athlete can do between 7 and 12 repetitions, then the muscle group probably has an equal proportion of fibers (Pipes, 1994).
The article goes on to make a few general statements for training type based on the result of the estimate. If anyone is interested:
http://www.coachr.org/fiber.htm
FatRat
New member
Anya, I like the sound of that and I think you are on to something.
For me, an easier method (if a little basic) is to remember back to athletics at school or my swimming days. Most people know if they are a sprinter, or better over the loinger distances, or if they didnt run, could they throw explosivly etc. etc.
Ok, very basic and not muscle specific, but an easy place to begin...
For me, an easier method (if a little basic) is to remember back to athletics at school or my swimming days. Most people know if they are a sprinter, or better over the loinger distances, or if they didnt run, could they throw explosivly etc. etc.
Ok, very basic and not muscle specific, but an easy place to begin...
FatRat your post sums up my thinking exactly. This is just a place to begin. Every experiment must have an initial hypothesis; I'll test this one for now.
gymtime, Thaibox:
I have had to make allowances throughout my life for my attention deficit. 100% focus for 60-70 seconds can be far more difficult for me than for 20 seconds. Sure I can go through a whole workout with longer sets and suceed in focusing effectively, but to do so for weeks, months, and years? No way. I'm sure everyone agrees that lifting heavy weight (often without a spotter) demands complete focus. Even a loss of concentration for a half a second can be big trouble on certain movements.
I have had to make allowances throughout my life for my attention deficit. 100% focus for 60-70 seconds can be far more difficult for me than for 20 seconds. Sure I can go through a whole workout with longer sets and suceed in focusing effectively, but to do so for weeks, months, and years? No way. I'm sure everyone agrees that lifting heavy weight (often without a spotter) demands complete focus. Even a loss of concentration for a half a second can be big trouble on certain movements.
gymtime
New member
anya said:
Then you should get along with Toybox just fine. My guess is that he's already forgotten about this thread.....as well as where he put his special hack squat leg warmers.
I know that the effectiveness of volume varies between the sexes as well, in addition to personal goals.
overhead
New member
I do not like the idea of a biopsy, so on most compond movements I do a couple of warm ups, then a set of 4-8, bring the weight down and do a set of 20. Figure I have both covered that way. Sounds like a better idea to do it on different days, but that does not fit into my workout schedule right now.
Fatrat, anya, I could see that working for the "power" muscles of the posterior chain, but not muscles that are less recruited. As an overall predictor, I'd say it's true. I was/am a sprinter, but that hasn't been a good indicator for my bis, chest, quads, etc.
gymtime, why would volume vary by sex?
gymtime, why would volume vary by sex?
louden_swain
New member
Want to hear something interesting. . . I feel that I have experienced some gains using 10 sets of 2 reps on speed squats.
My upper thigh and hip area has thickened up. . because of speed work.
My upper thigh and hip area has thickened up. . because of speed work.
gettinlarger
New member
louden_swain said:
VERY intriguing ...
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slobberknocker
Guest
Did someone say lifting heavy is easy? Haha. I feel mirth at your expense. Haha.
Sometimes my face bleeds.
Does anyone have anything to eat?
Sometimes my face bleeds.
Does anyone have anything to eat?
Most of my arch pain came from sprinting.
Z
Zoalord
Guest
Formulae such as the one posted only serve to give a hint of how neurally efficient you are, not what fibers your muscles are predominately composed of.
And Louden, I, too, have seen substantial thigh thickening from Speed Squats.
As for heavy lifting being "easier" in a sense, I agree. The discomfort of lifting heavy is a welcome relief, compared to the searing of pushing my lactate threshold. Some people enjoy the burn, though. I actually prefer training with near-maximal and maximal singles, if I am comparing "feel", to doing anything as high as even 5 reps.
If it weren't for the structure of certain routines, I doubt I'd ever go over triples.
A Powerlifter once said, "Six reps, to me, is cardio." I'm not agreeing with him, but I know what he means, and it's not for lack of conditioning, either.
Lift on.
And Louden, I, too, have seen substantial thigh thickening from Speed Squats.
As for heavy lifting being "easier" in a sense, I agree. The discomfort of lifting heavy is a welcome relief, compared to the searing of pushing my lactate threshold. Some people enjoy the burn, though. I actually prefer training with near-maximal and maximal singles, if I am comparing "feel", to doing anything as high as even 5 reps.
If it weren't for the structure of certain routines, I doubt I'd ever go over triples.
A Powerlifter once said, "Six reps, to me, is cardio." I'm not agreeing with him, but I know what he means, and it's not for lack of conditioning, either.
Lift on.
anya said:
Get better shoes, inserts, or orthotics. I have the worlds highest arches and used to have to drug up to race because of shin splints. Then I learned that you can solve that problem, rather than masking the symptoms.
Then a woman's intensity would be limited by her lower testosterone capabilities as well, right? They would each be training maximally within their own limitations.
D
Debaser
Guest
Most people give too much thought to fiber type and do not concentrate enough on weight progression, this is what matters.
I guarantee if you do a brutal 20 rep set of squats, adding 2-5 lbs a week, you'll see incredible leg growth even if some chart said your legs are primarily slow-twitch.
I guarantee if you do a brutal 20 rep set of squats, adding 2-5 lbs a week, you'll see incredible leg growth even if some chart said your legs are primarily slow-twitch.
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