that jazzercise woman...

[circusgirl]

I was surprised to find that, after all the hooey about her on this board, the woman's nto what I'd call obese. Piccies of her are on her own site, www.feelinggoodfitness.com.

You guys seriously think this woman is gross? She looks normal to me, actually she looks a lot like me.... I'm a dress size smaller, but I don't know what height she is...

 

[Doktor Bollix]

She weighs 240lbs, which is what? 17 stone for you mad brits? That's fat for any woman unless she's at least seven feet tall. But so what? Seeing as how fat people are the majority in the U.S. I don't see why she couldn't at least show a fat person being healthy. I don't know much about that Jazzercise bullshit but surely market forces would create a niche for bigger instructors, more representative of the population at large?

I don't think they (the fat) want to look at other fat people either. I think that's their guilty secret. Since they are the dominant demographic surely it's their purchasing power which informs media imagery.

Gross is a value judgement. Don't start up another p0ink-like "harpoon the land whales and convert their blubber into industrial products" thread.

 

[circusgirl]

hmm she DEFINITELY doesn't look 240lbs to me... maybe the photo was very flattering. I would have guess 180 pounds from that picture.

 

[Rockafella Skank]

That's the thing that bothers me most about this case. Jazzercise seems to be forgetting that whatshername is a product of its teachings. Here's a woman who can walk the walk quite well (by the comapny's own admission) but the program didn't make her slim. Either way, Jazzercise comes off as a failure.

 

[jportnick]

it's me, the Jazzercise woman

Hello, I noticed that this board is linking to my site. Just thought I'd jump into the discussion about me, if that's OK.

I really do weigh 240 lbs., and I'm 5'8" tall. I wear a size 18. I certainly have noticed that in some photos I look larger than others. It probably has to do with camera angles, lighting, etc.. My body has looked pretty much the same for the last few years.

I agree with the point that, as America becomes larger, it's more important than ever for people to have instructors that they can relate to, especially people who are highly fit, and not small size. That doesn't mean one size is any better than others. In fact, I'm all for diversity in instructor population. Some people are more comfortable and inspired by leaner instructors; others are motived and inspired by me. They should all have the person they most want to work out with.

Also, it's worth noting that Jazzercise did remove the "fit appearance" qualification from their requirements to hold a franchise, so their doors are now open to people like me who may be highly qualified to teach their classes, but who do not look the typical aerobics instructor part.

Jennifer Portnick

 

[Rockafella Skank]

Sorry I called you whatshername.

 

[jportnick]

No problem

No problem in calling me "whatshername." That's pretty mild compared to some of the other names I've heard in the last year.

Apology gladly accepted.

 

[Norman Bates]

What do you tell the people that ask if your aerobic course will make them slim?

 

[68GT350]

I'm sorry but I sure wouldn't join up a class lead like that. That's like taking driving lessons from a senior citizen with big ol' coke bottle glasses hunched over the wheel squinting for dear life.

If you're so fit, lose the extra weight, then come back and teach the class. You are exactly the kind of person that steals the rights from employers. Shame on you.

 

[VooDoo Lady]

"Don't change your body, change the rules."

WTF is this supposed to mean?

 

[Norman Bates]

Maybe "use DNP"?

 

[casavant]

Re: it's me, the Jazzercise woman

I agree with the point that, as America becomes larger, it's more important than ever for people to have instructors that they can relate to, especially people who are highly fit, and not small size. That doesn't mean one size is any better than others. In fact, I'm all for diversity in instructor population. Some people are more comfortable and inspired by leaner instructors; others are motived and inspired by me. They should all have the person they most want to work out with.

But don't you think that feeling comfortable can lead to complacency? One of my biggest motivators for working out has always been other people who were in better shape. It makes me think, "If they can do it, then why can't I?".

 

[circusgirl]

I see no reason why an overweight person can't teach an aerobics class, I always found the lycra-clad gym bunnies intimidating in my aerobics years.

Plenty of overweight high-school football coaches out there. And CJ Hunter is fat too - doesn't stop him being a wrestling coach.

And my soapbox again - I am truly fed up with the way, as a woman, my body is somehow public property. I don't know about the US, but here in the UK, if you walk past a group of men, more than likely they will comment on your looks, favourably or unfavourably, without trying hard not to be overheard. I hate this. And it happens when I am in jogging bottoms and tshirt as well as tarted up to go clubbing BTW. Some guys seem to think I shouldn't be allowed go round in jogging bottoms and tshirt. Well, duh, if I'm taking a break from putting up some shelves, I'm hardly going to get the lipstick out to go to the grocery store? There are a LOT of men who seem to think a woman's JOB is to look ultra-seductive at every moment of the day, and if she doesn't seem to be making a huge effort to meet beauty stereotypes, give her a hard time.... gets off soapbox. Yeah, I know that's not really relevant here. And that folks on elite don't mind my being a bit overweight. Funny that in life in general, it's overweight WOMEN who get all the flak, not the guys....

Susie Orbach has some very interesting things to say about women and overweight.

 

[Norman Bates]

Who is Susi Orbach and what does she have to say?

 

[bigguns7]

Circusgirl is exactly right, and you guys are missing the point. It's not always how the person looks, it's what they can teach your and how they can push you do get in shape. An overweight woman telling you to do 25 lunges will makle you burn the same amount of calories as a fitness model telling you to do 25 lunges. They can instruct you just as well, it's your own physiological response that they can't control.

There is a woman trainer at my gym that is probably 5'6", 160 and 25% bodyfat that must be the highest-earning trainer at the gym. Why? Because she doesn't make overweight, middle-aged women feel unattractive or intimidated. But she does help them lose weight and get in shape, even though she is not the image of perfection herself.

Bodybuilders are so vain and superficial in nature that they think that a person who isn't 6% bodyfat and can't dead lift 500 lbs. can't possibly know anything about working out. This thread goes to prove one of the negative stereotypes about it, that we don't do it for our physical well-being (for ourselves), we do it so other people will think we look good.

 

[circusgirl]

Susie Orbach was the author of "Fat is a Feminist Issue" and "Hunger Strike". THese books are about how the female diet industry (the mainstream diet industry, not BBers) is a policitcal tool used by large corporations and the likes of Vogue to keep women busy spending money so they would not turn their backs on worrying about their looks.

Dunno if it makes sense - the theory is that women when they were always in the hom spent a lot of money on cleaning producs, also on clothing and makeup and beauty products, but once they were free to be lawyers, accountants etc they would end up as interested in stuff like that as the average male accountant. So women, despite being free to enter the profession of their choice, are still constrained by the need to be thin and pretty. Naomi Wolf addresses this issue very well in the Beauty Myth - she cites may examples of women who were fired due to being overweight or not "feminine" enough in jobs where their looks were not important (eg senior executive in Price Waterhouse who was fired for acting too much like a guy apparently). All of these books show how the continued obsession of both men and women wth women's looks is introducing a new oppression now that the "patriarchy" is no longer the problem.

 

[casavant]

that we don't do it for our physical well-being (for ourselves), we do it so other people will think we look good.

I've always known that that was one of my main motivators.

 

[Doktor Bollix]

[/B] All of these books show how the continued obsession of both men and women wth women's looks is introducing a new oppression now that the "patriarchy" is no longer the problem. [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree people focus on women's appearance as an index of their personal worth. I remember particularly all those Janet Reno cracks by old, fat, bald guys. Like anybody want's to see Trent Lott naked. Same with Kathleen Harris during the Florida recount.

But women are their own worst enemy. Men care about butts and boobies. That's it! You don't paint your toes nails for our benefit. We don't even notice. SAme with hair, clothes, any other particular of female narcissism. You can take a hot woman and put her in a pair of sweats with her hair looking like she got dragged backwards through a hedge and she will STILL be HOT to a man. So there.

Men never bitch about women's appearances in the workplace, women do. Constantly. I am amazed every day by professional jealousy among women and the lengths they will go to keep each other down. And it's mostly really petty shit "Don't you think she looks old today?". I've had to deliver the "This is not high-school here, quit yer bitchin' and do yer frickin' job" speech a few times because a woman could not tolerate another woman more attractive than her in the immediate vicinity. You know it's true. Can you point to an example of a man doing that? I don't believe it's cultural either. There's just reasons of evolutionary biology why men co-operate and women compete. Don't even get me started on how screwed up Mother-daughter relationships are. I can never get over how un-supportive most women are of their daughters, while they think the sun shines out of their son's ass, no matter how much of an asshole he is.

All of those particulars, hair, clothes etc. are mainly to impress other women. So don't be telling a man that it's the patriarchal hegemony that made you spend $400 on a silly, uncomfortable looking pair of shoes, we're too busy looking at your tits to notice.
Fat chicks know it. That's why they be wearing the innappropriately tight belly t-shirt with the over-hang. Just because they know some schlub is going to zero in on the big boobies and never even see the rest.

 

[casavant]

Good post, DoctorBollix!

 

[supersizeme]

dr bollix serving up the truth sandwiches with a side order of rilla dilla.

 

[circusgirl]

I didn't say it was patriarchal hegemony - I KNOW other women are just as bad, if not worse. In fact, worse. You'll note I said "men and women focussing on women's looks". Not just men. Men putting down Janet Reno because she doesn't have a nice rack, women because they don't like her taste in suits.... Wolf points out that it's NOT a patriarchal hegemony, it's advertising executives etc that enforce this climate with Vogue, Cosmo etc for the women and various other ploys for the men. And most of my friends are guys because I can't cope with the constant obsession and bitching about appearance so many women spend their entire time and energy on...

Note I didn't mention Playboy, I've bought a few copies of this to read it and it's actually a very good magazine, imho...

 

[greenday]

If you go to an expensive restaurant, do you want to see a skinny chef?

If you are trying to lose weight, would like to have an expert that's overweight teach you.

If I wanted to learn to throw a baseball, I wouldn't go to a pitching coach with no arms.

I'm not against overweight people, I have several in my family, but I wouldn't suggest they become leaders in the fitness world either.

I can understand the point, it makes obese people feel more comfortable, I mean if I was 300 lbs, I wouldn't want some 98 lb trainer like Michelle Pfeiffer, I would feel embarassed.

But let's say, I wanted to lose just 10 to 20 lbs, would I really want to shell out my hard earned money to someone that was over 200 pounds. My first thought would be, if they are such an expert, why are they fat. I know my views aren't popular, but I'm sure a lot of people are afraid to agree with me. Because quite simply, political correctness has gotten out of hand, and they don't want to get bad karma, or worse deemed insensative to others.

 

[circusgirl]

Like I said before, there are plenty of fat high school football and athletics coaches out there. Their teams do well, however.

 

[Rockafella Skank]

Story in last Tuesday's Wall Street Journal about a recent study about fit overweight people. The study -- conducted by Kenneth Cooper, the father of aerobic exercise movement -- finds that people who are overweight and fit are healthier than sedentary people. Over an eight year period, 22,000 men were tested for bodyfat and fitness level. During that time period, 428 of the study subjects died. The finding was that the unfit lean (as measured by treadmill performance) were nearly twice as likely to die as the fit ... including the obese fit.

 

[Rockafella Skank]

If you go to an expensive restaurant, do you want to see a skinny chef?

Only fat chefs are good chefs? Absurd.

If you are trying to lose weight, would like to have an expert that's overweight teach you.

Perhaps if you're overweight you would.

If I wanted to learn to throw a baseball, I wouldn't go to a pitching coach with no arms.

This doesn't mean the coach doesn't understand nor can teach the mechanics of pitching ... arms aren't necessary for that.

I can understand the point, it makes obese people feel more comfortable, I mean if I was 300 lbs, I wouldn't want some 98 lb trainer like Michelle Pfeiffer, I would feel embarassed.

So I'm not sure why you're opposed to the idea.

But let's say, I wanted to lose just 10 to 20 lbs, would I really want to shell out my hard earned money to someone that was over 200 pounds.

I would hope you would find another instructor if it bothered you so much. On the other hand, when I wrestled in high school, our fitness coach was an aerobic instructor who was about 5' 11" and a somewhat soft 185 lbs. She taught seven one-hour classes a day and then came to our practices to kick our asses for 45 minutes. We were the best conditioned athletes in the state of Illinois. Period.

 

[creep]

I wouldn't take any wieght or health advice from someone that looks like that. I tend to take advice from that look fit and are where I want to be.

 

[Frackal]

I like boobs!

 

[greenday]

I think my post above was dead on, and exactly how most people think, of course if you chop it up in pieces like you did, it looks like shit. But that's what reporters do to alter people's quotes. So my question is, what newspaper do you work for?

 

[Bigsatan13]

Who says men don't recognize the total package? I don't think a fat chick with her belly hanging over her shirt is hot, I think it's fucking nasty! I don't want to see that shit. Wow she still has tits and an ass? Yeah but I bet they're nasty too! I think a woman who takes pride in her body and takes care in the way she presents it shows more class then the one who is lazy and couldn't care less how she looks. Jen, if you are happy, good for you. But sorry honey if I was looking for an aerobics instructor for my gym, she will be fit. BTW, I agree, any man who doesn't take care of himself and is a disgusting fat body should keep his fucking mouth shut when it comes to commenting on anyone's appearence.

 

[Rockafella Skank]

I think my post above was dead on, and exactly how most people think, of course if you chop it up in pieces like you did, it looks like shit. But that's what reporters do to alter people's quotes. So my question is, what newspaper do you work for?

First ... more than half the US population is overweight or obese. There is no way you could begin to speak for that population by saying "most people" think as you do. Maybe most of the people you know or most of the people at your gym. Remember "most people" are fat.

Second, I did nothing to alter you words nor did I warp their meaning. You chopped -- your word -- them up quite conveniently and I responded to each point. Further, because your original post remains in the thread, the way I chose to respond does not destroy the context -- it's right there for all to see. The comparison to newspaper reporters is weak, at best.

Frankly, I could give two shits if this woman works in the fitness industry or not. I couldn't care less if she's 100 lbs or 300 lbs. The bottom line for me is if she can do the job well and has the desire to be successful at it, why the fuck should I stand in her way? Her desire to pursue this is greatly enhanced by the demand of the marketplace. And, yes, a market for fat people exists. Fashion magazines and clothing stores are including more and more content and products for plus size women. Major designers are creating lines for plus size women and advertising them in mainstream publications featuring top plus size models (Liv Tyler's sister is one).

You said yourself that if you were 300 lbs you wouldn't want someone who is 98 lbs to be training you, that you feel embarassed. So what's your objection when someone actually decides to do it?

 

[cockdezl]

No one has even touched the subject. It is not that Ms. Portnick is healthy or qualified or fits the population demographics of the US, but that Jazzercise wanted to promote an image, which Ms. Portnick did not fit into to.

I totally disagree with her case and the outcome, since it prevents the free market from functioning properly, and has not promoted any real moral justice.

A company should have the right to decide what it thinks is acceptable for its "image". If the US citizens disagree with their "image" then the company will feel the disagreement of its clients, by lower revenue or complete bankruptcy. What is the chance that CNN would have a news reporter that had spiked green hair and a nose ring? MTV would accept this, because they accept this image. From this court battle, can I now try and get a job on BET, even though I am white?

And do not attempt to state that my argument will allow for racial discrimination, since this is protected under the law, weight is not.

 

[Rockafella Skank]

cockdezl ... I agree with you. She wanted to teach, they said no, she sued. Everyone is well within their right. Do I believe that Jazzercise is missing an opportunity? Yes. Do I find the organization is wrong or bad or close minded. No. But neither is Ms. Portnick for fighting the decision against her.

 

[Frackal]

Actually I think it would be very interesting to see the outcome of a white man's lawsuit against BET for racial discrimination if he tried to get hired and was unsuccessful, providing he was well qualified.

 

[greenday]

I never said she wasn't qualified to teach the class. I'm upset that she forced her way in. They didn't hire her because she's fat, they have a certain image they want to portray, and they should be allowed to. Political Correctness is bullshit.

The next issue of Playboy will feature Rosie O'donnell, because if Playboy refused to put her in, they would be sued by the chub club, and the gay/lesbian organizations. She is just as capable of posing as Pamela Anderson is, Pam was in it many times, and Rosie is smarter, and would be more qualified.

I stated in an earlier post, if I was 300 lbs, I would like to have a fat trainer, but if I wanted to lose 10 or 20 lbs, I wouldn't want to pay money to someone that can't keep themselves in shape.

The one part I would change in my earlier posts, is I said most people think that way, what I meant by most, was the people that post here on elite. I know that more than half the population are overweight, and I wasn't speaking for them.

 

[Norman Bates]

Frack, what is BET?

cockdezl ... I agree with you. She wanted to teach, they said no, she sued. Everyone is well within their right. Do I believe that Jazzercise is missing an opportunity? Yes. Do I find the organization is wrong or bad or close minded. No. But neither is Ms. Portnick for fighting the decision against her.

I think discussion was not about what was legal but about what was right. J.Portnick should not have the right to sue herself into a company if the company management didn´t want ,because they think it´s bad for their profit.

 

[Rockafella Skank]

J.Portnick should not have the right to sue herself into a company if the company management didn´t want ,because they think it´s bad for their profit.

So under what conditions does someone who perceives wrongdoing have legal redress?

BET is Black Entertainment Television.

 

[Norman Bates]

Rockafella, of course she can sue if the law allows her, what i wanted to say is that i think the law that allowed her to sue is not correct in that case and should be changed.

BTW, i don´t think she received any wrongdoing.

 

[Rockafella Skank]

There need not be an existing violation of law to sue someone. Whether or not it's "right" to include weight in a human rights policy is debatable. In any case it's not my place to say ... I've never been discriminated against based on my weight.