test only cycle...

[Whatmatters]

when running a mild test only cycle (first cycle) at around 250-500mg/week, will i run into any sides?? what ancilllaries/post cycle therapy will i need? i especially don't want to get shut down because i do have a girlfriend and i don't want her to know/suspect i'm on anything

WM

 

[Texas Ranger]

WM, this is not a flame bro, but you REALLY need to do some research. The search button is your friend!! Plus, to help you we need stats(ie.age, training experience, etc...). There are a bunch of posts and profiles on the sides of Test. Check them out, brother! Either way, good luck.

 

[doublebicep]

when running a mild test only cycle (first cycle) at around 250-500mg/week, will i run into any sides?? what ancilllaries/post cycle therapy will i need? i especially don't want to get shut down because i do have a girlfriend and i don't want her to know/suspect i'm on anything

WM

No offense intended but saying:

? i especially don't want to get shut down because i do have a girlfriend and i don't want her to know/suspect i'm on anything

makes no sense. How would she know you where shutdown? I think you are confusing issue here bro... On test you will be shutdown but how on earth would she know? You sex drive should be higher then normal!

I have to agree with Texas Ranger. You need to do more research. It seems like you are taking short cuts.

 

[40butpumpin]

when running a mild test only cycle (first cycle) at around 250-500mg/week, will i run into any sides?? what ancilllaries/post cycle therapy will i need? i especially don't want to get shut down because i do have a girlfriend and i don't want her to know/suspect i'm on anything

WM

When I've been shut down, my libido was non-existent. To me being shut down means that there's no endogenous and of course no exogenous test available. If that's the case, how can the libido be higher than normal? :confusued:

As far as your question, it really depends on how long you are on. A very short cycle I feel is relatively easy to bounce back from but a long one, even at a relatively low dose can shut you down harder. What you're essentially doing is telling your body that it doesn't need to provide test because it's already there. Being on a long time is worse because your body stays in the dormant state longer and the glands essentially atrophe. You can get your self back on line if it's not too long with HCG and for some, Clomid. A short cycle can be as little as two weeks and a longer one that is typical of a "normal" cycle is between 8 and 12 weeks.

I'd appreciate knowing how old you are.

But what you'd need is maybe a low dose of an anti-aromatase like arimidex during the test cycle and HCG immediately when you finish for two weeks and if you so choose, some clomid.

I hope that helps some.

 

[Whatmatters]

i don't see any of that as flaming, i did search but i didn't find the answers to those questions. i'll keep trying though

To me being shut down means that there's no endogenous and of course no exogenous test available. If that's the case, how can the libido be higher than normal? :confusued:

This was exactly my concern...anyone else can explain this too me???

I'm 23 by the way...
WM

 

[40butpumpin]

What's to explain? When you're shut down, you're just that: shut down. What you want to do is avoid getting shut down. You do that by not staying on for an irresponsibly long period of time and by using the proper recovery med's to get your endogenous test rolling again, namely HCG. Arimidex is again, an anti-aromatase which will disallow the conversion of test to estrogen. I personally feel that if you're on not-to-extreme doses of test and your body fat is not excessive you may not even need arimidex. It is probably a good idea to have some on hand, however, if you experience bloat. But on the other hand if you're using prop, bloat shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Tricepratus]

I agree with 40butpumpin. Good advice and explanation. I think that you, whatmatters, dont need to search more with that advice

 

[TECH ONE]

What's to explain? When you're shut down, you're just that: shut down. What you want to do is avoid getting shut down. You do that by not staying on for an irresponsibly long period of time and by using the proper recovery med's to get your endogenous test rolling again, namely HCG. Arimidex is again, an anti-aromatase which will disallow the conversion of test to estrogen. I personally feel that if you're on not-to-extreme doses of test and your body fat is not excessive you may not even need arimidex. It is probably a good idea to have some on hand, however, if you experience bloat. But on the other hand if you're using prop, bloat shouldn't be an issue.

Great advice! As far as what kind of test you should use, thats up to you, but i would try and get your hands on some test enan or test cyp. Your cycle should look similar to this:

Week 8-10 Test (enanthate) @ 250-500mg/week
Then start Clomid two weeks after last test shot.

Always have some "nolva" on hand just in case some gyno signs pop up!!!! You probably won't need any anti-E's (to control bloat), but they wont hurt you to use them thru-out your cycle (ex. L-dex @ 0.5mg ED or EOD from week 1 to last day of clomid)
Good luck with your cycle bro!!

 

[Whatmatters]

thanx for the input....is there anywhere else i should be researching though....books, other sites? any recommendations would eb appreciated!
WM

 

[40butpumpin]

thanx for the input....is there anywhere else i should be researching though....books, other sites? any recommendations would eb appreciated!
WM

Nelson Montana's new book. You can purchase it through EF or maybe PM him about how to purchase it.

 

[doublebicep]

Re: Re: test only cycle...

When I've been shut down, my libido was non-existent. To me being shut down means that there's no endogenous and of course no exogenous test available. If that's the case, how can the libido be higher than normal? :confusued:

Being shut down means you are not producing test naturally. Whatmatters asked about:

mild test only cycle

In which case there would be plenty of test being introduced so test levels would be supra normal. This often can cause an increase in libido. So my point was how would his gf know he was shut down? (Not producing test naturally?)

Men suffering from hypogonadism are permanently shutdown but with HRT can have normal or even supra normal test levels.

 

[High-Jacked]

I am doing similar to you, I just started my first cyle of test enanthate. I am doing an 8-10 week cycle, at 400 mg/week. I will be taking extra caution to prevent gyno by taking 20 mg Nolvadex throughout my whole cycle. I feel as though I am prone to gyno since I have mild case from puberty, but you may not need to. Most people seem to prefer Arimidex to Nolvadex as an anti-E, I have found it more expensive though. I will be following up post cycle with Clomid and Nolva. I injected 300 mg 2 days ago, was real easy, and so far what I have noticed is most likely mental as my past 2 workouts have been staggering and I have felt stronger, again after only 3 days I am sure it is just a placebo or mental thing. Good luck and make sure that you do a lot of research as I have been doing before injecting foreign substances into your body. Good luck bro!

 

[Whatmatters]

Maybe i should have clarified my question about being shut down.....my concern is post cycle, will my natural test levels return to normal, and as far as libido goes will it be affected post cycle?
WM

 

[40butpumpin]

Re: Re: Re: test only cycle...

Being shut down means you are not producing test naturally. Whatmatters asked about:



In which case there would be plenty of test being introduced so test levels would be supra normal. This often can cause an increase in libido. So my point was how would his gf know he was shut down? (Not producing test naturally?)

Men suffering from hypogonadism are permanently shutdown but with HRT can have normal or even supra normal test levels.

Umm, yeah I know, but we're talking post cycle here. At least I thought we were.

 

[jubei]

If its a test only cycle it is worth while to frontload IMO. If it is your first cycle a weekly dosage of 250-500mg/week would seem appropriate. Nolvadex on hand and hcg would seem a wise idea.

 

[OXANDRIN]

can you take 1/2 a tab of femara EOD while on 400mg of test enth? thats what i'm planning on doing after i swtich off this deca

 

[40butpumpin]

will my natural test levels return to normal, and as far as libido goes will it be affected post cycle?
WM

Yes, and depends, as long as you do as suggested earlier you should be fine. The whole idea of recovery is to do it so as to see as little a drop off as possible. See the more time you're without any test, whether exog or endog, the more chance to lose cycle gains so that's exactly what we do not want.

Try this:

Test Enanthate wk 1-8 500mg 1x/wk
HCG wk 1-8 500iu 2x/wk (spaced out)
HCG wk 9-10 500iu ed
Arimidex wk 1-10 0.5mg eod

Or

Test Propionate wk 1-8 100mg eod
HCG wk 1-8 500iu 2x/wk
HCG wk 9-10 500iu ed

Some bro's use Clomid when the HCG stops (week 11 here) but I personally have never had a need for it. Actually I tried and wasn't too impressed with it so I don't both with it. With this you should not see too much of a problem if any at all. That's my opinion anyway, I hope it helps you some.

 

[doublebicep]

Re: Re: Re: Re: test only cycle...

Umm, yeah I know, but we're talking post cycle here. At least I thought we were.

You said

When I've been shut down, my libido was non-existent. To me being shut down means that there's no endogenous and of course no exogenous test available. If that's the case, how can the libido be higher than normal? :confusued:

I disagree with this statement. Being shutdown simply means no nat test production. During a test cycle you can be shutdown but still have a healthly libido.

Whatmatters :

Some this to look into for post cycle recovery:

- hcg
- clomid
- Avena Sativa
- nolvadex
- "Off ramp" techniques some times called by some bridging. (To me bridging is an other term for never going off where "off ramp" techniques are just ways of tapering using shorter acting AS compounds toward the end of your cycle so you can better manage getting your own test production back.)

There shouldn't be any reason your gf would notice you are on or just off a cycle of test other then increase in size or a change in temperment.

 

[40butpumpin]

can you take 1/2 a tab of femara EOD while on 400mg of test enth? thats what i'm planning on doing after i swtich off this deca

femara is an anti-aromatase just like arimidex but works even more effectively in fact. So yes, you can take femara with your test to prevent estrogen conversion (as well as bloat).

Also, HCG is much more than a "wise idea," it is imperative IMO.

 

[Whatmatters]

wow...thanx alot bros...
here's my next question 40butpumpin, i want to start with low doses as i was thinkin going with the enanth at 250mg/wk...would the HCG and/or armidex doses change at all with the smaller amounts?? or are you not recommending the 250mg/wk?

WM

 

[Whatmatters]

(To me bridging is an other term for never going off where "off ramp" techniques are just ways of tapering using shorter acting AS compounds toward the end of your cycle so you can better manage getting your own test production back.)

sounds good in theory...can you give an example?? anyone else have any experience with this as you don't hear too much about this...
WM

 

[40butpumpin]

wow...thanx alot bros...
here's my next question 40butpumpin, i want to start with low doses as i was thinkin going with the enanth at 250mg/wk...would the HCG and/or armidex doses change at all with the smaller amounts?? or are you not recommending the 250mg/wk?

WM

IMO you very well could be producing greater amounts of endogenous test than what you'd be getting from 250mg/wk exogenously. So I'd say what's the point. It's like shutting down your own production for an equal amount of exogenous test. That's just plain dumb. If you're going to do it I'd say do it enough to know you're definitely going to exceed the amount currently produced by your body. That's why I'd suggest 500mg. Just FYI I'm on 200mg ew (HRT) and that's got my test numbers at a little over 800ng/ml. It's not unheard of for bro's to produce more than that naturally, in fact much more.

 

[jubei]

I agree HCG is a must have. Then again so is nolvadex/or/clomid IMO. The reason you want an anti e with HCG is that HCG can cause gyno by itself. I would never take Hcg without either nolvadex or clomid.

 

[40butpumpin]

I agree HCG is a must have. Then again so is nolvadex/or/clomid IMO. The reason you want an anti e with HCG is that HCG can cause gyno by itself. I would never take Hcg without either nolvadex or clomid.

My understanding is that can happen only with excessive use (dose and duration), much beyond what's been discussed here. As far as using it with ndex or clomid, I've used HCG many, many times w/o either of those so that's news to me. I dunno about that one jubei.

 

[jubei]

40butpumpin. There are guys that use 2 grams of test a week with no anti-e's and never get gyno, but that doesn't mean its a good idea. Here is an exerpt from an article on Hcg:


The downside is that HCG too is suppressive of natural testosterone. Because it takes the place of LH. LH is not the first step in the chain of command, instead its manufactured in the pituitary under the response of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) which is secreted from the hypothalamus. And since an LH mimicking agent is supplied exogenously, the negative feedback signal to the hypothalamus will still tell it to stop making GnRH, and so no natural LH is produced. This is why the product is always used in conjunction with a potent estrogen receptor antagonist like clomid or Nolvadex. When the androgen level in the body has dropped, these antagonists will lower estrogenic response creating a steroid deficit that signals the Hypothalamus to start making GnRH. When it does, after HCG therapy, testicle size is up again and shortly thereafter natural testosterone manufacture should return to normal. But therefore its crucial that users note that though HCG is essential after long cycles, it shouldn't be used without clomid or Nolvadex AND HCG should be discontinued at least two weeks before coming off Clomid or Nolvadex or else it will suppress natural testosterone itself.

 

[40butpumpin]

Ya know bro now that I read that I have indeed seen that exact information before so my mistake, I have read it before.

In all fairness, however, it doen't say anything about gyno. Sure it can cause a desensitization to test, any test in fact, even your own, however, gyno is from estrogen dominance. I realize this can no doubt results from suppressed test which can occur as a result of excessive hcg use, but to say using hcg alone, w/o ndex or clomid can result in gyno I still say is quite a reach, quite a reach.

I do know that I've never had a problem with the use of HCG alone. Does that make it right? Maybe not, but that makes it useful and that's all that matters to me.

Not as a cop-out, but I honestly get a little frustrated with all of the recovery approache(s) and opinions of approaches. Which is no ones fault, just the way it is.

But I have tried clomid and I felt like shit from it and IMO didn't do one positive thing for me. I've never tried ndex so I cannot comment on that.

No flame bro, I respect your view 100%.

 

[jubei]

Alot of people have negative reactions to clomid, and personally I would think nolva would be a better match for Hcg because it is a more potent anti e and has less potential side effects. Here is an exerpt from another article on Hcg:

The side effects from HCG use include gynecomastia, water retention, and an increase in sex drive, mood alterations, headaches, and high blood pressure. HCG raises androgen levels in males by up to 400% but it also raises estrogen levels dramatically as well. This is why it can cause a real case of gynecomastia if dosages get too elevated for that person. Another side effect seen from HCG use is morning sickness (nausea and vomiting). There have been no cases of overdose complications with the use of HCG nor have there been any associated carcinomas, liver or renal impairment. HCG was at one point looked at to see if it could carry the AIDS virus, due to the fact that it is biologically active, but the latest word is that this could not be possible in any way.

 

[nolan64]

I am on the same boat. I am starting my first cycle of test. Cyp in fact. 200mg.
This is how I have planned my cycle.
1 cc shot every 3 days for 10 weeks. Does that sound right to anyone?
I as well do not want my wife to know so is there anything I can expect for my first cycle other than good gains. And what are your thoughts on my post cycle recovery. Iam hearing about some serious depression and hug e losses at the end is any of this true and if so how can it be avoided?

 

[40butpumpin]

I am on the same boat. I am starting my first cycle of test. Cyp in fact. 200mg.
This is how I have planned my cycle.
1 cc shot every 3 days for 10 weeks. Does that sound right to anyone?
I as well do not want my wife to know so is there anything I can expect for my first cycle other than good gains. And what are your thoughts on my post cycle recovery. Iam hearing about some serious depression and hug e losses at the end is any of this true and if so how can it be avoided?

IMO you will not be able to hide 200mg cyp e3d. No way. Why do double the shots when it isn't necessary, just do 400 1x/wk. I've aleady stated my opinion of proper recovery in this thread.

 

[Whatmatters]

IMO you will not be able to hide 200mg cyp e3d. No way

why not?

and no one answered my last question.... i want to start with low doses as i was thinkin going with the enanth at 250mg/wk...would the HCG and/or armidex doses change at all with the smaller amounts?? or are you not recommending the 250mg/wk?
WM

 

[Tricepratus]

Of course, if you step down your test dosage you can down your HCG and anti-e dosages. Your endogenous test is less affect. However you would be use HCG and anti-e post cycle. to up your endogenous level as fast as possible and avoid the crash. If recomendable that you use both because each one have a different pathway to do that.
But I think that you woul be use 500 mg / week is a low-moderate dose so it is not to up much side effects.