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Tall Ectomorphs with a Big Chest....Please Read
- Thread starter buddy28
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mekannik
New member
Just bench for 2 years straight... did that in high school and it left me with a chest and little else.
Seriously - Flat Bench - cycle low rep and moderate rep periods of training.
Incline D.B. presses - but do a 2-3 second lowering, 1 sec pause at the bottom
Decline Close Grip Bench - hits yours pecs and builds your tri's like crazy to aid you in your other presses.
Also consider very low (10') incline D.B. presses.
I'm 6'2", #225 - incorporate(d) the latter and have one of the beter chests in my gym. Granted genetics play the larger role though.
Seriously - Flat Bench - cycle low rep and moderate rep periods of training.
Incline D.B. presses - but do a 2-3 second lowering, 1 sec pause at the bottom
Decline Close Grip Bench - hits yours pecs and builds your tri's like crazy to aid you in your other presses.
Also consider very low (10') incline D.B. presses.
I'm 6'2", #225 - incorporate(d) the latter and have one of the beter chests in my gym. Granted genetics play the larger role though.
I would say genetics play a big role as my chest is way out of proportion with my other body parts. I wish my shoulders would grow more. I just look at chest flyes and my pecs grow. But getting back to your question...I would say that if you superset'ed chest flyes with bench, your chest would undoubtedly get worked. You wouldn't be benching as much, but who cares. later bro
My chest is far from huge, but I thought I'd mention what is starting to work for me since my chest lags
If your chest lags pre-exhaust it, Ive been doing this for abit now and I can see it is starting to work for me
All bar work just used to give my delts a workout, now I do incline flyes followed by incline DB's, the key is to not rest very long between the flyes and incline db press, do 1min or 1.25 absolute max, you see your chest recuperates 75% of its strength after 1 minute or so, so KEEP IT LOW and intense, as you are trying to pre-exhaust it!!
The most important factor though, is to feel the muscle working, if you dont; it wont get trained, simple. Put all your concentration into squeezing the hell out of your chest, also tense it during your rest period, dont give it any chance to relax. Tense it every opportunity you get, you dont have to make it obvious.
Sometimes I will do drop sets on the dumbells and forced on the flat bar (following incline db's).
My chest is really pumped after this. The most important factor is keep your rest periods down and form has to be 100%.
Focus on your chest, not on the pain.
This is what is starting to work for me.
Good luck dude
Oh I forgot to say, you'll know the next day if youve hit your chest, I used to get really sore delts and a little soreness in my chest - no good, but I have worked hard on eliminating this and now my delts barely get sore at all whereas my chest feels like it has been worked hard. Its all about form and concentration.
If your chest lags pre-exhaust it, Ive been doing this for abit now and I can see it is starting to work for me
All bar work just used to give my delts a workout, now I do incline flyes followed by incline DB's, the key is to not rest very long between the flyes and incline db press, do 1min or 1.25 absolute max, you see your chest recuperates 75% of its strength after 1 minute or so, so KEEP IT LOW and intense, as you are trying to pre-exhaust it!!
The most important factor though, is to feel the muscle working, if you dont; it wont get trained, simple. Put all your concentration into squeezing the hell out of your chest, also tense it during your rest period, dont give it any chance to relax. Tense it every opportunity you get, you dont have to make it obvious.
Sometimes I will do drop sets on the dumbells and forced on the flat bar (following incline db's).
My chest is really pumped after this. The most important factor is keep your rest periods down and form has to be 100%.
Focus on your chest, not on the pain.
This is what is starting to work for me.
Good luck dude
Oh I forgot to say, you'll know the next day if youve hit your chest, I used to get really sore delts and a little soreness in my chest - no good, but I have worked hard on eliminating this and now my delts barely get sore at all whereas my chest feels like it has been worked hard. Its all about form and concentration.
Last edited:
Liberator -
thanks for the advice dude. Yesterdays chest workout was decent.
I pre-exhausted my chest with 2 sets of 20 reps cable flys followed by incline dumbells, and then decline dumbells.
Its going to take some work to isolate the "Feel" of my chest working during the exercises, but its a good start.
My lower chest is pretty sore from the declines. Ive read here that declines build the whole chest, not just the lower chest. I disagree, but we will see
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thanks for the advice dude. Yesterdays chest workout was decent.
I pre-exhausted my chest with 2 sets of 20 reps cable flys followed by incline dumbells, and then decline dumbells.
Its going to take some work to isolate the "Feel" of my chest working during the exercises, but its a good start.
My lower chest is pretty sore from the declines. Ive read here that declines build the whole chest, not just the lower chest. I disagree, but we will see
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mekannik
New member
Buddy28,
One thing to consider is your past training history. Have low reps or high reps built more muscle for you? If low reps seem to be working - do 5-6 sets of 2 excercises, resting 2-3 minutes between sets. If higher reps work, go for 3-4 sets, 1-2 minutes rest.
Harking back to a previous thread - a training log becomes invaluable - allowing you to see both progress and stagnation in your efforts.
As for all the D.B. work - which I prefer myself - include some barbell work. You're most likely fatiguing the support muscles before hitting the deep fibres of the chest.
********
Madhavoc,
I keep my middle finger on the knurling/smooth junction of the bar. Typically 12"-14" apart.
One thing to consider is your past training history. Have low reps or high reps built more muscle for you? If low reps seem to be working - do 5-6 sets of 2 excercises, resting 2-3 minutes between sets. If higher reps work, go for 3-4 sets, 1-2 minutes rest.
Harking back to a previous thread - a training log becomes invaluable - allowing you to see both progress and stagnation in your efforts.
As for all the D.B. work - which I prefer myself - include some barbell work. You're most likely fatiguing the support muscles before hitting the deep fibres of the chest.
********
Madhavoc,
I keep my middle finger on the knurling/smooth junction of the bar. Typically 12"-14" apart.
guys I have never done decline ever, you can laugh at that if you like but its true, there is no decline bench at my gym, i see guys putting plates under a bench to make it decline, but we have no dedicated decline bench, apparently we are getting one soon though. weve got everything but that one thing.
I used to think it wasent needed if you already incorporate flat bar work, but maybe thats just me being ignorant
is it really that good for overall mass?
i will include it in my routine and try it
I used to think it wasent needed if you already incorporate flat bar work, but maybe thats just me being ignorant
is it really that good for overall mass?
i will include it in my routine and try it
mekannik
New member
Liberator,
It's not so much the direct effect of building mass from doing declines. Consider the following:
* On decline presses, due to alignment of shoulder joints and distance of fully extended arms to chest, the distance is shorter
* Since the distance is shorter ( and I believe shoulder angle to your advantage) - the amount of wieght that can be used is considerably more
* The decline adds variation to your routine - a different angle to reduce injury due to chronic over use of the same training plane
* The stretch added to certain movement (try do skull crushers/nose breakers/whatever you want to call them) on a decline vs. a flat bench - you'll notice a subtle difference.
It's not so much the direct effect of building mass from doing declines. Consider the following:
* On decline presses, due to alignment of shoulder joints and distance of fully extended arms to chest, the distance is shorter
* Since the distance is shorter ( and I believe shoulder angle to your advantage) - the amount of wieght that can be used is considerably more
* The decline adds variation to your routine - a different angle to reduce injury due to chronic over use of the same training plane
* The stretch added to certain movement (try do skull crushers/nose breakers/whatever you want to call them) on a decline vs. a flat bench - you'll notice a subtle difference.
Japanese machine
New member
buddy28 said:
preexhaust your fast twitch, not slow twitch, your looking for growth right? preexausting slow twitch wont do much. so by that i mean stick to heavy weights to preexhaust, otherwise your just warming up
This is confusing, one guy says one thing, and another guy says the opposite..
I appreciate all the comments from you guys as Im just a novice body builder, so Im willing to give everything a try.
Japanese Machine - Ill give it a try preexhausting with heavier cable flys. Part of the problem is that I dont really *feel* my chest working when doing DB presses. The high rep preexhaust helps me concentrate on the contraction of my chest, helping me to mimick that contraction with presses. I understand thats not the point of preexhausting, but I think its one of the benefits (if not the main one)
Mekkanic - thanks dude. Im aiming at low reps with the presses, but never sacrificing form for weight. My shoulders, back, and arms are big so they take over immediately if I use heavier weights. Im going to stick with semi heavy weights and concentrate on the feel.
Ive been working out off-and-on for about 5 months and my chest has always been lacking. Its going to take some time, but itll improve hopefully
Liberator - thanks for your comments man. YOu and I sound like we have a similar problem. I found declines made my lower chest pretty sore for 2 days (todays the second day). Problem is, I think they only build ur lower chest, but Crackerrot will have my ass on a plater if he hears me saying that.
I think the best idea is to experiment, and keep the focus on the chest.
Thanks for all ur posts guys. I appreciate it.
I appreciate all the comments from you guys as Im just a novice body builder, so Im willing to give everything a try.
Japanese Machine - Ill give it a try preexhausting with heavier cable flys. Part of the problem is that I dont really *feel* my chest working when doing DB presses. The high rep preexhaust helps me concentrate on the contraction of my chest, helping me to mimick that contraction with presses. I understand thats not the point of preexhausting, but I think its one of the benefits (if not the main one)
Mekkanic - thanks dude. Im aiming at low reps with the presses, but never sacrificing form for weight. My shoulders, back, and arms are big so they take over immediately if I use heavier weights. Im going to stick with semi heavy weights and concentrate on the feel.
Ive been working out off-and-on for about 5 months and my chest has always been lacking. Its going to take some time, but itll improve hopefully
Liberator - thanks for your comments man. YOu and I sound like we have a similar problem. I found declines made my lower chest pretty sore for 2 days (todays the second day). Problem is, I think they only build ur lower chest, but Crackerrot will have my ass on a plater if he hears me saying that.
I think the best idea is to experiment, and keep the focus on the chest.
Thanks for all ur posts guys. I appreciate it.
This explains more about PRE-EXHAUST, I sometimes do low reps heavy weight to pre-exhaust (6-8) but the higher reps seem to work best personally, just go out and try everything dude. I am doing inclines because the upper area of my chest needs work, since I started this my chest is look more full, I wanted to see the effects of using incline as the primary mass builder.
From Anabolic Extreme
In the quest for maximum size, many bodybuilders lift as heavy as possible all the time. Pre-exhaustion training has fallen into disfavor as bodybuilders have embraced the heavier is better theory of training. In this months installment of Hardcore Training, we will examine the use of pre-exhaustion training as a way to further increase muscular hypertrophy, reduce training injuries, and make the most out of limited training time.
As a veteran bodybuilder, I have trained using just about every technique possible. Because no two individuals are alike, everyone responds to training in a different fashion. We have systems like Mentzer’s Heavy Duty, high rep routines, low rep routines, etc, etc. And while every guru claims his system of training to be superior, it’s really impossible to make broad generalizations towards training that will work equally well for everyone. What I can guarantee you is that by implementing pre-exhaustion as part of your training arsenal, you will grow. If you’ve reached a plateau and can’t find a way to get over it, pre-exhaustion can take your body to the next level.
Why pre-exhaustion? What’s wrong with lifting heavy all the time? Basically you are limiting your growth potential by constantly performing heavy compound movements workout after workout. Compound movements are exercises that require major involvement from secondary muscle groups to perform. An example of a compound movement would be the bench press. While this exercise is designed to work your chest, the triceps are heavily involved in this movement. Your triceps will always fail before your chest, thereby preventing your chest to be worked to the fullest extent. Now certainly we can see massive bodybuilders with unbelievable chest development that never utilize pre-exhaustion. However, our goal here is to reach the absolute pinnacle of development in the shortest time possible. If going to the gym is a way to stroke your ego, forget about pre-exhaustion training. If your goal is to grow as much as possible from each and every workout, read on.
Let’s take a look at a sample chest workout. In fact, this is my last chest workout, so I’ll give you the play by play. We start out with flyes, an isolation movement that primarily works the chest. Because there aren’t a lot of secondary muscle groups involved in this exercise, it’s perfect for pre-exhaustion. My partner and I bust out 80 reps apiece, two sets of 40. Both sets are fairly difficult towards the end, but don't involve forced reps. At the end of the last set, you’re going to feel like you’ve worked you’re chest quite a bit. Hang on.
We move to flat bench press. Now the real fun begins. We start with 245, trying for a rest pause drop set of 7, 5, 3. For those of you who aren't familiar with a rest pause drop set, please refer to the last issue of Anabolic Extreme. First set I get seven on my own, five with a spot, and 3 with a spot. My chest is on fire. I've benched as much as 500 lbs. and I can tell you my chest has never felt like this training with strict compound movements. My partner goes, getting all drop sets on his own. This is now war. Second and last set for flat bench is ugly. I get all three drop sets on my own (must be the thermadrene kicking in!) and roll off the bench in agony. He does the same. Damn, a stalemate.
Time for inclines. Two drop sets on the smith, at a very slight elevation. Sometimes we use the smith, sometimes we use dumbbells, sometimes straight barbell. Really it comes down to personal preference and a desire to keep things fresh. I get both sets of 275 with no spot, he requires a spot on the last set. Actually, the bar doesn't weigh 275 because it is counterbalanced. Whatever it weighs, it's heavy as hell. He and I are miserable at this point, having difficulty raising our arms. Almost done with chest.
Last set is heavy incline flyes. Flyes again? Yes, because by now your chest is simply shattered, you have pretty much exhausted your muscle fibers in your chest. But we want a chest that's thick and full where it attaches to the sternum so we finish with two sets that will target that area. Two straight sets of heavy flyes, with reps kept between 6-8, and we're done. I'm exhausted, and still have triceps left. Total time on chest is maybe 30-40 minutes.
Sounds like it's too easy right? Basically six sets, not counting our exhaustion sets, and that's it? Let's examine why pre-exhaustion is more effective than straight heavy compound sets. When you lift as heavy as possible, what happens is that you perform your sets, utilize a small portion of your muscle fibers, then rest. Because the primary muscle group you are working is never being fully taxed because of the failure of secondary muscle groups, the portion of muscle fibers that were utilized during the exercise will recover to a large degree before your next set. Ultimately what ends up happening is that your muscle fibers work and recover, work and recover. You are never able to work your chest, or whatever body part you are attempting to train, to full failure. However, what happens when you train using pre-exhaustion techniques? Let's take chest again. You've performed your flyes and your chest is now fatigued to the point where the strength you can exert using your pectoral muscles is not greater than that of the triceps. The triceps are no longer a limiting factor in the exercise. When you reach failure, you are at that point because your chest has failed, not the triceps.
Many trainers have a hard time adhering to the principals of pre-exhaustion because they can't go in to the gym and lift the same heavy weights as they did before. Again, let me state that there is no direct relationship between size and strength. I know I stated this in the last issue and caught a lot of criticism for it, but it's true. Certainly we will get stronger as our muscles increase in size. But that doesn't mean that lifting the maximum weight possible is the best way to cause an increase in muscular size. If this were true, powerlifters would be much larger than bodybuilders. I think we can all agree that on a per lb. basis, powerlifters are stronger than bodybuilders because their sport revolves around lifting the heaviest weight possible. If they're so damn strong, how come they're not so damn big? Lifting the heaviest weight possible involves training a small percentage of muscle fibers to hypertrophy and lift the maximum possible weight for a very brief period of time. Powerlifters don't train to failure!!! If you ever pick up a powerlifting mag you will see that their training cycles appear to be very strange to us bodybuilders. Maximum muscle size is created by completely training each muscle group to complete failure, utilizing as many muscle fibers as possible. This simply doesn't happen though conventional training methods. Now again, there are massive pros who never utilize pre-exhaustion techniques. It's my contention that these bodybuilders would have reached their current level of development faster and ultimately been better bodybuilders by training smarter.
In parting, let me say this. As I stated before, I've tried virtually every training method in existence. If you are under the impression that pre-exhaustion techniques is girly foo-foo training, think again. I can guarantee you that 45 minutes of training using pre-exhaustion techniques is vastly more effective than 2 hours of heavy lifting. You can become incredibly strong using pre-exhuastion but that is secondary to your goal of muscular hypertrophy. Try it for a week, you'll thank me you did.
From Anabolic Extreme
In the quest for maximum size, many bodybuilders lift as heavy as possible all the time. Pre-exhaustion training has fallen into disfavor as bodybuilders have embraced the heavier is better theory of training. In this months installment of Hardcore Training, we will examine the use of pre-exhaustion training as a way to further increase muscular hypertrophy, reduce training injuries, and make the most out of limited training time.
As a veteran bodybuilder, I have trained using just about every technique possible. Because no two individuals are alike, everyone responds to training in a different fashion. We have systems like Mentzer’s Heavy Duty, high rep routines, low rep routines, etc, etc. And while every guru claims his system of training to be superior, it’s really impossible to make broad generalizations towards training that will work equally well for everyone. What I can guarantee you is that by implementing pre-exhaustion as part of your training arsenal, you will grow. If you’ve reached a plateau and can’t find a way to get over it, pre-exhaustion can take your body to the next level.
Why pre-exhaustion? What’s wrong with lifting heavy all the time? Basically you are limiting your growth potential by constantly performing heavy compound movements workout after workout. Compound movements are exercises that require major involvement from secondary muscle groups to perform. An example of a compound movement would be the bench press. While this exercise is designed to work your chest, the triceps are heavily involved in this movement. Your triceps will always fail before your chest, thereby preventing your chest to be worked to the fullest extent. Now certainly we can see massive bodybuilders with unbelievable chest development that never utilize pre-exhaustion. However, our goal here is to reach the absolute pinnacle of development in the shortest time possible. If going to the gym is a way to stroke your ego, forget about pre-exhaustion training. If your goal is to grow as much as possible from each and every workout, read on.
Let’s take a look at a sample chest workout. In fact, this is my last chest workout, so I’ll give you the play by play. We start out with flyes, an isolation movement that primarily works the chest. Because there aren’t a lot of secondary muscle groups involved in this exercise, it’s perfect for pre-exhaustion. My partner and I bust out 80 reps apiece, two sets of 40. Both sets are fairly difficult towards the end, but don't involve forced reps. At the end of the last set, you’re going to feel like you’ve worked you’re chest quite a bit. Hang on.
We move to flat bench press. Now the real fun begins. We start with 245, trying for a rest pause drop set of 7, 5, 3. For those of you who aren't familiar with a rest pause drop set, please refer to the last issue of Anabolic Extreme. First set I get seven on my own, five with a spot, and 3 with a spot. My chest is on fire. I've benched as much as 500 lbs. and I can tell you my chest has never felt like this training with strict compound movements. My partner goes, getting all drop sets on his own. This is now war. Second and last set for flat bench is ugly. I get all three drop sets on my own (must be the thermadrene kicking in!) and roll off the bench in agony. He does the same. Damn, a stalemate.
Time for inclines. Two drop sets on the smith, at a very slight elevation. Sometimes we use the smith, sometimes we use dumbbells, sometimes straight barbell. Really it comes down to personal preference and a desire to keep things fresh. I get both sets of 275 with no spot, he requires a spot on the last set. Actually, the bar doesn't weigh 275 because it is counterbalanced. Whatever it weighs, it's heavy as hell. He and I are miserable at this point, having difficulty raising our arms. Almost done with chest.
Last set is heavy incline flyes. Flyes again? Yes, because by now your chest is simply shattered, you have pretty much exhausted your muscle fibers in your chest. But we want a chest that's thick and full where it attaches to the sternum so we finish with two sets that will target that area. Two straight sets of heavy flyes, with reps kept between 6-8, and we're done. I'm exhausted, and still have triceps left. Total time on chest is maybe 30-40 minutes.
Sounds like it's too easy right? Basically six sets, not counting our exhaustion sets, and that's it? Let's examine why pre-exhaustion is more effective than straight heavy compound sets. When you lift as heavy as possible, what happens is that you perform your sets, utilize a small portion of your muscle fibers, then rest. Because the primary muscle group you are working is never being fully taxed because of the failure of secondary muscle groups, the portion of muscle fibers that were utilized during the exercise will recover to a large degree before your next set. Ultimately what ends up happening is that your muscle fibers work and recover, work and recover. You are never able to work your chest, or whatever body part you are attempting to train, to full failure. However, what happens when you train using pre-exhaustion techniques? Let's take chest again. You've performed your flyes and your chest is now fatigued to the point where the strength you can exert using your pectoral muscles is not greater than that of the triceps. The triceps are no longer a limiting factor in the exercise. When you reach failure, you are at that point because your chest has failed, not the triceps.
Many trainers have a hard time adhering to the principals of pre-exhaustion because they can't go in to the gym and lift the same heavy weights as they did before. Again, let me state that there is no direct relationship between size and strength. I know I stated this in the last issue and caught a lot of criticism for it, but it's true. Certainly we will get stronger as our muscles increase in size. But that doesn't mean that lifting the maximum weight possible is the best way to cause an increase in muscular size. If this were true, powerlifters would be much larger than bodybuilders. I think we can all agree that on a per lb. basis, powerlifters are stronger than bodybuilders because their sport revolves around lifting the heaviest weight possible. If they're so damn strong, how come they're not so damn big? Lifting the heaviest weight possible involves training a small percentage of muscle fibers to hypertrophy and lift the maximum possible weight for a very brief period of time. Powerlifters don't train to failure!!! If you ever pick up a powerlifting mag you will see that their training cycles appear to be very strange to us bodybuilders. Maximum muscle size is created by completely training each muscle group to complete failure, utilizing as many muscle fibers as possible. This simply doesn't happen though conventional training methods. Now again, there are massive pros who never utilize pre-exhaustion techniques. It's my contention that these bodybuilders would have reached their current level of development faster and ultimately been better bodybuilders by training smarter.
In parting, let me say this. As I stated before, I've tried virtually every training method in existence. If you are under the impression that pre-exhaustion techniques is girly foo-foo training, think again. I can guarantee you that 45 minutes of training using pre-exhaustion techniques is vastly more effective than 2 hours of heavy lifting. You can become incredibly strong using pre-exhuastion but that is secondary to your goal of muscular hypertrophy. Try it for a week, you'll thank me you did.
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