T3 catabolic during PCT?

[Vascular Freak]

I was reading some info on t3 for PCT at low doses after Wulfgar brought it up in a recent post. I am interested in using this for PCT but would think that it would be catabolic with no aas in the sytem and low natty test levels.....

Can some experienced bro explain how to effectively use this PC and post up results from past experiences.

 

[Ulter]

Can some experienced bro explain how to effectively use this PC and post up results from past experiences.

It's simple. You don't.
Using T3 without AS means you lose mass. It will eat mass ON AS though it's minimal. But there is no way you want to use it during PCT to burn off your gains.

 

[njmuscleguy]

It's simple. You don't.
Using T3 without AS means you lose mass. It will eat mass ON AS though it's minimal. But there is no way you want to use it during PCT to burn off your gains.

But Clen (as long as it's cycled) is ok during PCT, because it's anti-catabolic?

 

[Ulter]

Supposedly. But it's not enough to offset the T3 as some would have you believe.
Clen/Trex/ephedrine hcl are all good.

 

[Vascular Freak]

It's simple. You don't.
Using T3 without AS means you lose mass. It will eat mass ON AS though it's minimal. But there is no way you want to use it during PCT to burn off your gains.

That is what I was thinking but was confused since some experiences bros on here say that t3 is good post cycle for cortisol suppression etc??

 

[Ulter]

There are a lot better ways to suppress cortisol than using T3. This is not something I even need to pull research on. Just use T3 for 3 weeks and tell me if your lifts don't go down. I don't care who tells you to use it without AS, you shouldn't.

 

[liquidmuscle]

t3 will eat your newly aquired muscle bro dont do it.

 

[Vascular Freak]

I won't touch it then. T3 post cycle seemed irrational to me but I read it and wanted to throw it out there. thanks bro's

 

[Wulfgar]

low dose T3 is effective post cycle. Ive used it successfully and I know many other bros who have too.
@ a dose of 25-50 mcg daily and adhereing to a protien intake of 2G per lb of LBM your muscle tissue will be fine.
Think about it this way. Muscle cannot gow unless nutrient are available @ the site when the message is sent. The rate @ which nutrients become available depends on diet, and metabolism. Even if an athlete injests enough protein, carbs and fat, it is possible, due to digestive capabiliteis and metabolic rate, that not enough nutrients will be available @ the cell for significant increases in growth. This is especially true when the body is attempting to become catabolic to maintain homeostasis after an AAS cycle.
Thyroid hormones control most of the metabolic rate and therefore the assimilation of macronutrients(which greatly influence protein synthesis). Thus PTOR(protein turn over rate) is influenced as well. To grow or even maintain newly acquired muscle mass one must EAT AND ABSORB massive amounts of nutrients so it would be at the cell and able to get in when the anabolci mesage arrived.
so now we know thyroid hormones are quite anabolic. however, the difference between anabolicand catabolic was adequate supplies of nutrients and training stimuli.
Thyroid hormone levels decide metabolic rate to a great extent and therefore dicated post workout recovery time. the higher the metabolic rate, the quicker recovery....the more calories are neccessary.
with this knowledge we know that to support several lbs of newly aqurired muscle mass we must there eat more macronutrients(mainly protein) than previously required to keep the new tissue.
utilizing T3 post workout will assist greatly in the absorbtion of this extra food and hence the additional muscle gained during PCT...

 

[Vascular Freak]

low dose T3 is effective post cycle. Ive used it successfully and I know many other bros who have too.
@ a dose of 25-50 mcg daily and adhereing to a protien intake of 2G per lb of LBM your muscle tissue will be fine.
Think about it this way. Muscle cannot gow unless nutrient are available @ the site when the message is sent. The rate @ which nutrients become available depends on diet, and metabolism. Even if an athlete injests enough protein, carbs and fat, it is possible, due to digestive capabiliteis and metabolic rate, that not enough nutrients will be available @ the cell for significant increases in growth. This is especially true when the body is attempting to become catabolic to maintain homeostasis after an AAS cycle.
Thyroid hormones control most of the metabolic rate and therefore the assimilation of macronutrients(which greatly influence protein synthesis). Thus PTOR(protein turn over rate) is influenced as well. To grow or even maintain newly acquired muscle mass one must EAT AND ABSORB massive amounts of nutrients so it would be at the cell and able to get in when the anabolci mesage arrived.
so now we know thyroid hormones are quite anabolic. however, the difference between anabolicand catabolic was adequate supplies of nutrients and training stimuli.
Thyroid hormone levels decide metabolic rate to a great extent and therefore dicated post workout recovery time. the higher the metabolic rate, the quicker recovery....the more calories are neccessary.
with this knowledge we know that to support several lbs of newly aqurired muscle mass we must there eat more macronutrients(mainly protein) than previously required to keep the new tissue.
utilizing T3 post workout will assist greatly in the absorbtion of this extra food and hence the additional muscle gained during PCT...

Damn Wulf, you spit the thoughts right out of my head. I wouldn't mind trying it since I would rather lose a little muscle during PCT than still losing muscle and gaining a little fat. I would use it at 25mcg since I am only 185 lbs, and am currently eating 2-3 g or protein per ed anyhow.

When would you start the t3 in relation to HCG clomid nolva etc?

 

[Wulfgar]

Damn Wulf, you spit the thoughts right out of my head. I wouldn't mind trying it since I would rather lose a little muscle during PCT than still losing muscle and gaining a little fat. I would use it at 25mcg since I am only 185 lbs, and am currently eating 2-3 g or protein per ed anyhow.

When would you start the t3 in relation to HCG clomid nolva etc?

just start the T-3 about 7 days before your scheduled stop AAS day and continue it throughout your PCT. If you adhere to the 2 day on 2 day off routine with 25 mcg per day u will not have any suppression problems.

 

[TraxZBT]

Based on my past experience.. I would NEVER use t3 w/o AS... Especially not for PCT. Looks all nice and dandy on paper.. but honestly, do you guys REALLY want to risk 12+ weeks of hard earned muscle because a "possible" way of cortisol suppression...
Brings me back to the days when Nelson Montana proposed Herbal PCT and everyone started to jump on the bandwagon.. Why fix something if it ain't broken?

 

[Wulfgar]

Based on my past experience.. I would NEVER use t3 w/o AS... Especially not for PCT. Looks all nice and dandy on paper.. but honestly, do you guys REALLY want to risk 12+ weeks of hard earned muscle because a "possible" way of cortisol suppression...
Brings me back to the days when Nelson Montana proposed Herbal PCT and everyone started to jump on the bandwagon.. Why fix something if it ain't broken?

bro its not a bandwagon and its really not that revolutionary. It is mearly a way to get the body to absorb the additional nutrients that need to be supplied to the newly aquired muscle tissue. IMHO this is a very important part of the pCT...actually teaching the body to hold onto the new mass by upregulating metabolic function.

 

[Vascular Freak]

Based on my past experience.. I would NEVER use t3 w/o AS... Especially not for PCT. Looks all nice and dandy on paper.. but honestly, do you guys REALLY want to risk 12+ weeks of hard earned muscle because a "possible" way of cortisol suppression...
Brings me back to the days when Nelson Montana proposed Herbal PCT and everyone started to jump on the bandwagon.. Why fix something if it ain't broken?

I'm not "hate'n" bro but how could t3 waste that much muscle if you only use it at low dose, and are getting a solid stream of nutrients every 1h30m to 2 hours.

If one took t3 and didn't eat/supplement enough I can see a catabolic disaster but if you keep protein atleast 2g/lb and supplement with bcaa's etc it seems it would help assimilate all the protein/fats/carbs and help restore hormone levels by "speeding" up the system in a way.

 

[Ulter]

Okay let's start over again. Since Wulfgar has decided to start a let's lose our mass campaign on Elite, I will post on all of these threads.

DO NOT USE T3 DURING PCT.

Wulfgar
T3 is catabolic by way of what it does to your metabolism. Once you jack up your thyroid with T3 you are going to burn off muscle along with fat. The only thing that will stem that is increased protein synthesis. That's what you get from steroids, increase protein synthesis. When you don't have the steroids present, like during PCT, you will lose that mass you just put on during your cycle. So your advice is for people to use T3 and burn off the muscle they just spent a cycle gaining.

Eating more protein won't stop it. The proteins syntheis needs to be accerated to match what the T3 is doing. Otherwise you'll just waste the protein into your toilet.

As most people have found out, and are posting on this thread, you will be sorry if you follow Wulfgar's advice. The only saving grace for those who try using T3 without AS is that you'll see within a few weeks that your lifts are all going down quickly and you can taper off and save what's left. The loss is very rapid and easily determined.

 

[c gheller]

Ulter, Would 250mg Test /week be enough to avoid comprimising muscle tissue?

 

[Ulter]

Yes. You can do it with 20-30mg of var depending on your T3 dosing.

 

[immortalis]

Not to hi-jack the thread, but I had a T3 related question. Ive been contemplating scooping some up and giving it a run since I have never tried it before, however right now I can get a couple bottles of T4 for free...

Whats the pro's and con's of using T4 instead of straight T3? Isnt T4 just converted to T3 in the body?

Or would it be better for me to go ahead and just scoop up some straight T3?

Thanks in advance for the thoughts

 

[c gheller]

Yes. You can do it with 20-30mg of var depending on your T3 dosing.

Never used it before. Plan on running for 5 weeks up to 50mcg.

 

[Wulfgar]

Okay let's start over again. Since Wulfgar has decided to start a let's lose our mass campaign on Elite, I will post on all of these threads.

DO NOT USE T3 DURING PCT.

Wulfgar
T3 is catabolic by way of what it does to your metabolism. Once you jack up your thyroid with T3 you are going to burn off muscle along with fat. The only thing that will stem that is increased protein synthesis. That's what you get from steroids, increase protein synthesis. When you don't have the steroids present, like during PCT, you will lose that mass you just put on during your cycle. So your advice is for people to use T3 and burn off the muscle they just spent a cycle gaining.

Eating more protein won't stop it. The proteins syntheis needs to be accerated to match what the T3 is doing. Otherwise you'll just waste the protein into your toilet.

As most people have found out, and are posting on this thread, you will be sorry if you follow Wulfgar's advice. The only saving grace for those who try using T3 without AS is that you'll see within a few weeks that your lifts are all going down quickly and you can taper off and save what's left. The loss is very rapid and easily determined.

Ulter
I beleive you are jumping the gun here.
I am not recommending high dose T3 use PCT. The bodies normal T3 output averages 25-30 mcg daily. 50 mcg is hardly enough T3 to notice some type of massive catabolic occurance. Especially when done in a 2 day on 2 day off protocol. this mearly keeps the metabolism accelerated to a point just higher than the user would have been without the T3 use.
Rememeber action/reaction factors?
during cycle most guys eat tremendous amounts of macronutrients in an attempt to gain lean body mass. The body is being barraged by anabolic growth factors. When the cycle is completed and the body then attempts homeostasis estrogen AND cortisol levels are immediately jacked up to try to burn off the newly aquired mass.
this explains why most gys feel lethargic and not all that hungry post cycle.
simple rule. if one does not absorb enough amino acids during this time to support the newly aquired muscle he will lose it. Hopefully most bros are using some form of cortisol control along with thier anti-E's and HPTA restimulating stuff.
the Low dose T3 is VERY effective @ keeping the metabolic rate to a point where consuming AND absorbing enough food during this critical time is possible.
on another note, during PCT when cortisol and estogen are suppressed it takes very little anabolism to keep growth stimulated. alot of the proported "loss" people assume that would happen when using T3 post cycle in a low dose manner is actually adipose tissue being burned off. Since as long as proper nutrition(primarily protein, i can name countless articles proporting the muscle sparing effects of a high protien intake) and training protocol are followed. the body would never preferentially burn muscle tissue. It coulnt..catabolism is being SUPRESSED in favor of anabolism.

 

[Wulfgar]

And please understand Im not talking from an uneducated standpoint. Ive reasearched this thouroughly and used it on myself and others. I hold about 275 lbs @ 10% in my offseason phase and compete @ 250. When Im offseason I do very very little AAS. I always include T3 in my PCT and I always notice an increase in muscle quality, definition and improved appetitie.

 

[Vascular Freak]

I am willing to take a risk I may try it at very low dose and see how I feel with it. I am not that worried about losing alittle mass or strength since the intent of this cycle was to peel of some fat and fine tune some weak areas.

I normally feel like my test levels are actually pretty high when using clomid, nolva, trib, avena etc. I feel a little lag when I stop the clomid/nolva etc. I may run the t3 for 2-3 weeks and stop it when I stop the nolva/clomid.

Ulter.... I am not doubting what you say, but I am always loooking to experiment with possibly effective methods for "my" body to hold onto the good look that is acheived throughout the course of a cycle.

I would think that igf and t3 would be effective when combined as well but from what I have been reading I will save for a spring cycle next year.

 

[Ulter]

Took the weekend off. Sorry I didn't post on this.

The bodies normal T3 output averages 25-30 mcg daily. 50 mcg is hardly enough T3 to notice some type of massive catabolic occurance. Especially when done in a 2 day on 2 day off protocol. this mearly keeps the metabolism accelerated to a point just higher than the user would have been without the T3 use.

WRONG You only make 3-7mcg/day. Nowhere near 25mcg. So yes 8 times the normal bloodlevel will cause a catabolic occurance, as you call it.

And please understand Im not talking from an uneducated standpoint. Ive reasearched this thouroughly

No you didn't research it or you wouldn't be posting that your body produces 25-30mcg/day.

 

[pitbullrocco]

so ulter.....what do you think of 80mcg /day during my last 6 weeks of cycle.....of course, my scheduled max is 100mcg as i am ramping.....however, i'm reconsidered lowering to a constant 40mcg max.....i've done, oh, about 4 days at 80 and haven't noticed decline in strength yet, but i have noticed fat loss.....(been ramping for just under 2 weeks now)
(also, just finished a 2 weeker of clen....now on ECA for 2)

and just so you don't have to turn on sig's....

current cycle started 7/13:
week 1-10 deca 500/week
week 1-6 test e 500/week
week 7-12 sustanon 500/week
week 6-10 dbol 20ml/day

and much thanks for the educated information!

 

[pitbullrocco]

^^

 

[Ulter]

If you're mid-cycle you should be okay. That's a heavy dose. You can cut with 40mcg just fine and run it straight through. Ramping up is not necessary but coming down easy is very important so ramp down over a couple weeks.

 

[pitbullrocco]

If you're mid-cycle you should be okay. That's a heavy dose. You can cut with 40mcg just fine and run it straight through. Ramping up is not necessary but coming down easy is very important so ramp down over a couple weeks.

i hear ya about ramping down.....i trust your every word.....you be da man!

grazie molto!