Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Synovex conversion
- Thread starter NMuir
- Start date
A
ALIN
Guest
Why bother witht the hassle when TEST PROP is readily available and affordable.
Jdub,
That's interesting I've researched the so called "magic" solution for over a year. I personally use the frozen distiller water drip myself because I found it yields considerable more T. I may give the quick 60 minute method a try. Thanks for the input, nice to see other BOP chiming in!!
Curious though.. What made you conclude 60 minutes was enough? BTW I use a t-shirt as well, lol. Coffee filters will have you rinsing all damn night!!!
That's interesting I've researched the so called "magic" solution for over a year. I personally use the frozen distiller water drip myself because I found it yields considerable more T. I may give the quick 60 minute method a try. Thanks for the input, nice to see other BOP chiming in!!
Curious though.. What made you conclude 60 minutes was enough? BTW I use a t-shirt as well, lol. Coffee filters will have you rinsing all damn night!!!
Ox-Sandra-Loan
New member
Extract with diethyl ether, and then recrystallize from methanol-water or ethanol-water. Maybe re-crystallize 2 times.
If you don't mind TnE, its even easier - hydrolyze the ester with base, collect the filtrate, wash, and re-crystallize.
Method I would personally use: extract and concentrate, and seperate on a preparatory chromatography columnn, or preparatory HPLC, and re-crystallize. I can't be responsible for your results though, I have worked in laboratories for around 10 years. If you aren't familiar with laboratory work and confident of your laboratory technique, I would advise against doing it at all without a kit.
(also this might be a better question for the bodybuilding chemistry forum, though I do understand that many more people read this section)
If you don't mind TnE, its even easier - hydrolyze the ester with base, collect the filtrate, wash, and re-crystallize.
Method I would personally use: extract and concentrate, and seperate on a preparatory chromatography columnn, or preparatory HPLC, and re-crystallize. I can't be responsible for your results though, I have worked in laboratories for around 10 years. If you aren't familiar with laboratory work and confident of your laboratory technique, I would advise against doing it at all without a kit.
(also this might be a better question for the bodybuilding chemistry forum, though I do understand that many more people read this section)
Ox,
Don't take this personal but people here aren't lab pro's. So in-depth or even the usage of buzz words scares most off from what is a really simplistic "experiment". If you want to be more helpful write out a step by step process in layman's terms. I'm sure all would appreciate it especially from someone experienced working in a lab!! ;-)
Regardless, thank you for your input!
E
Don't take this personal but people here aren't lab pro's. So in-depth or even the usage of buzz words scares most off from what is a really simplistic "experiment". If you want to be more helpful write out a step by step process in layman's terms. I'm sure all would appreciate it especially from someone experienced working in a lab!! ;-)
Regardless, thank you for your input!
E
Blissfam10
New member
When I wanted to do an experiment like this I just got a dazed syno kit from XXXXXX not to hard comes with a step by step DVD and walks you through the whole process.
Last edited by a moderator:
chembeaker
New member
what is important before attempting anything like this is to understand what it is you are doing, you don't want to just blindly follow instructions from someone who may not have any idea of what they are doing either. chemistry can be dangerous if you don't understand purification, sodium hydroxide in your syringe will make you forget about steroids damn fast, it will also destroy your product if not careful.
the significance of the sodium hydroxide tis that it is able to react with phenolic hydroxyl groups to form a salt which is water soluble, usually calcium hydroxide would be used as it is far more effective and the alkali component is less harmful than sodium so whoever made the kits was not up to an acceptable standard in second year organic chemistry for supplying such items to consumers. the Na+ -O-estro forms immediately, similarily with morphine production the soluble calcium salt is immediately formed and no reaction time required, reaction time will only serve to cleave the propionate ester (not salt) from testosterone, especially in the presence of methanol which can aid somewhat in the hydrolysis.
once you have added your "majic liquid" (what a fucking insult to your intelligence) you can begin a drip of ice water or better yet add ice cubes directly to the methanol and they will slowly melt. the slow addition is so that you more crystallize the testosterone prop than precipitate it. by flooding with water you crash it out to a muck which you can't filter (a problem it took us many months to overcome with the synth of test from dhea), by slowly and cold addition of water the test forms more xtalline and filerable as you give the product the time it needs to do so. Now you have a salt of estrogen dissolved in water and tp floating in it which you filter out, rinse with distilled water to remove estro and dry (sixty celcius in the oven is fine).
when recrystallizing test prop you must have complete dryness, any water fucks it up by not allowing the tp to dissolve. methanol is your best bet as it is the dryest alcohol you can buy otc. go outside and get some methanol boiling on an electric hot plate, use a condensor if you can but a glass beaker with very high sides and a fan blowing on it will be fine too. now add the tp slowly until its all in and boil for up to a half hour, add more methanol at that point if not all is dissolved. now turn off the heat and leave the beaker on it to cool even more slowly, you get better xtals. in a few hours you'll begin to get huge crackly hard xtals of test prop that you can filter out when its done, give it overnight, and rinse with methanol then dry in the air.
my experience has been with self prepared esters like acetate and hydrocinnamate, prop should behave just like acetate although acetate is notoriously insoluble in the vegetable oils and 50mgml is about peak even with ethyl oleate or isopropylpalmitate/castor so its best avoided. acetate did make nice xtals from methanol so prop will too.
the significance of the sodium hydroxide tis that it is able to react with phenolic hydroxyl groups to form a salt which is water soluble, usually calcium hydroxide would be used as it is far more effective and the alkali component is less harmful than sodium so whoever made the kits was not up to an acceptable standard in second year organic chemistry for supplying such items to consumers. the Na+ -O-estro forms immediately, similarily with morphine production the soluble calcium salt is immediately formed and no reaction time required, reaction time will only serve to cleave the propionate ester (not salt) from testosterone, especially in the presence of methanol which can aid somewhat in the hydrolysis.
once you have added your "majic liquid" (what a fucking insult to your intelligence) you can begin a drip of ice water or better yet add ice cubes directly to the methanol and they will slowly melt. the slow addition is so that you more crystallize the testosterone prop than precipitate it. by flooding with water you crash it out to a muck which you can't filter (a problem it took us many months to overcome with the synth of test from dhea), by slowly and cold addition of water the test forms more xtalline and filerable as you give the product the time it needs to do so. Now you have a salt of estrogen dissolved in water and tp floating in it which you filter out, rinse with distilled water to remove estro and dry (sixty celcius in the oven is fine).
when recrystallizing test prop you must have complete dryness, any water fucks it up by not allowing the tp to dissolve. methanol is your best bet as it is the dryest alcohol you can buy otc. go outside and get some methanol boiling on an electric hot plate, use a condensor if you can but a glass beaker with very high sides and a fan blowing on it will be fine too. now add the tp slowly until its all in and boil for up to a half hour, add more methanol at that point if not all is dissolved. now turn off the heat and leave the beaker on it to cool even more slowly, you get better xtals. in a few hours you'll begin to get huge crackly hard xtals of test prop that you can filter out when its done, give it overnight, and rinse with methanol then dry in the air.
my experience has been with self prepared esters like acetate and hydrocinnamate, prop should behave just like acetate although acetate is notoriously insoluble in the vegetable oils and 50mgml is about peak even with ethyl oleate or isopropylpalmitate/castor so its best avoided. acetate did make nice xtals from methanol so prop will too.
chembeaker
New member
just what are you suggesting here? extract with diethylether? good thing you've got strong arms cuz youre gonna be shaking for hours to dissolve it out of a methanol solution, and its never gonna separate. the whole purpose of the water drip is the precipitate the tp so it can be filtered, you'd need literally litres if not gallons of ether at that temperature to dissolve the ppt'd tp.
hydrolyze the base, ok, that forms propanoic acid which then reacts to use up your carefully measured sodium hydroxide thus not allowing it to react with the phenolic hydroxyl leaving estrogen in the final product.
alcohol-water is not a recrystallization with respect to tp it is a precipitation, to get xtals you must dissolve and use cooling to bring out the clear needles.
prepatory columns are generally used in synthesis, you already have pure tp you are just simply partitioning it based on solubility from the testp, its already pure, you don't even need to recrystallize it , fun to use big words and terms though. just kidding around lol
kits are unneccessary, this is just too easy and you can make a better kit on your own thats less likely to cleave the propionate ester by utilizing calcium hydroxide instead of sodium hydroxide, it just may take a little longer to dissolve the calcium hdyroxide prior to use. buy the following:
-distilled water
-methyl hydrate, methanol, same shit different name
-calcium hydroxide, plant store, remember it has twice the ability to form the salt with phenolics as lye so only half the relative amount is needed
-coffe filters or a manual centrifuge
-a one litre pyrex beaker
-a hot plate
to figure out how much of each thing you need go to google and type in molecular weight of test prop, then calcium hydroxide, then estrogen or estradiol etc.. and finally sodium hydroxide. molecular weight makes everything relative, like a handicapping. so to find out the calcium hydroxide you need:
grams of estrogen in sample to get rid of * 1/molecular weight of estrogen = number moles you have X
X moles estrogen * molecular weight of calcium hydroxide in grams/mole = grams needed of calcium hydroxide BUT remember you only need half that as calcium hdyroxide has two hydroxides in every molecule so it does twice the work per mol so cut that number in half and thats the grams of calcium hydroxide needed. if you use exact amounts there is no reason to fear the cleavage of tp as the reactioin with the phenolic estro is thermodynamically favorable and happens first leaving no calhydrox for cleaving the tp.
for methanol you use whatever it takes to dissolve your material.
everyone here can do this without needing to buy a magic dissolving solution (i'm sorry i find that so offensive), if you can negotiate the internet you can make your own kit and effectively utilize it
Last edited:
C0LUMB0
Moderator
He is posting here for 10 years.
With 14 posts under your belt - you are in no position to tell anybody to refrain from posting.
We respect everybody's opinion here i strongly suggest you do the same.
Ox-Sandra-Loan
New member
just what are you suggesting here? extract with diethylether? good thing you've got strong arms cuz youre gonna be shaking for hours to dissolve it out of a methanol solution, and its never gonna separate. the whole purpose of the water drip is the precipitate the tp so it can be filtered, you'd need literally litres if not gallons of ether at that temperature to dissolve the ppt'd tp.
TP is very soluble in Et2O. I am saying to extract is from the synovex pellets with ether, not from any methanol solution.
hydrolyze the base, ok, that forms propanoic acid which then reacts to use up your carefully measured sodium hydroxide thus not allowing it to react with the phenolic hydroxyl leaving estrogen in the final product.
alcohol-water is not a recrystallization with respect to tp it is a precipitation, to get xtals you must dissolve and use cooling to bring out the clear needles.
Methanol-water works just fine if you do it properly. I am talking about re-crystallization, NOT precipitation. Use the correct amount of each.
prepatory columns are generally used in synthesis, you already have pure tp you are just simply partitioning it based on solubility from the testp, its already pure, you don't even need to recrystallize it , fun to use big words and terms though. just kidding around lol
It's obviously NOT already pure if it is in implants with fillers and binders and also contains estradiol benzoate. If a person is going to be injecting this, I think they would want it pure. Preparatory columns are used to separate components in a mixture, and that is quite obviously NOT just used in synthesis. Fun for you to pretend you know what you are talking about though...j/k
kits are unneccessary, this is just too easy and you can make a better kit on your own thats less likely to cleave the propionate ester by utilizing calcium hydroxide instead of sodium hydroxide, it just may take a little longer to dissolve the calcium hdyroxide prior to use. buy the following:
-distilled water
-methyl hydrate, methanol, same shit different name
-calcium hydroxide, plant store, remember it has twice the ability to form the salt with phenolics as lye so only half the relative amount is needed
-coffe filters or a manual centrifuge
-a one litre pyrex beaker
-a hot plate
to figure out how much of each thing you need go to google and type in molecular weight of test prop, then calcium hydroxide, then estrogen or estradiol etc.. and finally sodium hydroxide. molecular weight makes everything relative, like a handicapping. so to find out the calcium hydroxide you need:
grams of estrogen in sample to get rid of * 1/molecular weight of estrogen = number moles you have X
X moles estrogen * molecular weight of calcium hydroxide in grams/mole = grams needed of calcium hydroxide BUT remember you only need half that as calcium hdyroxide has two hydroxides in every molecule so it does twice the work per mol so cut that number in half and thats the grams of calcium hydroxide needed.
That will form the calcium phenol half-salt, which is not sufficiently basic enough to react with another phenol group to form the diphenolate salt. Remember, the salt is formed from the cation, the hydroxide just serves to deprotonate the phenol to allow it to form the salt. This would work if you had another base (triethylamine maybe?) to deprotonate the -OH to allow it to form the diphenolate salt.
if you use exact amounts there is no reason to fear the cleavage of tp as the reactioin with the phenolic estro is thermodynamically favorable and happens first leaving no calhydrox for cleaving the tp.
This method won't leave any calcium hydroxide, right...but it will leave some estradiol.
for methanol you use whatever it takes to dissolve your material.
everyone here can do this without needing to buy a magic dissolving solution (i'm sorry i find that so offensive), if you can negotiate the internet you can make your own kit and effectively utilize it
replies in bold
by the way, people use technical terms because they serve a purpose and have a particular meaning, not to try to make themselves sound smart. A big part of education is learning the language in that field. Why people at gyms say "10 reps" instead of "pick it up and put it down 10 times" is no different.
Last edited:
chembeaker
New member
I need clarification on your meaning of methanol-water. Are you saying you are heating in a mixture of methanol and water and fractionally crystallizing or dissolving in rt methanol and going through dropwise addition of water? I apologize if I misunderstood, yes you can crystallize that way but still nothing compares to dissolving in rt methanol and giving it a week to evaporate, obtaining glass like crystals with steroids is difficult and can't be done in the presence of water, thats all i am saying, a crystalline powder is very possible if done right.
in literature such as merck it states that tp is soluble in ether, in practise it isn't quite so soluble outside perfect world conditions, after all this is the book that says a gram of lithium dissolves in ten ml of ammonia gas condensed, in a oxymethalone synth i counted on that solubility and was very sadly let down when it required over five times that volume. anyway again i misunderstood and yes what you describe will work, i just don't think its that simple. chloroform when hot is a nice solvent, i always formed my esters by dissolving the base in chloroform and pyridine and refluxing with acetic anhydride, phenylacetic anhydride, phenylpropanoyl chloride etc.. and as soon as the temperature decreased to a certain temp it was like wham and nice solid lump that you could decant off of and dump in methanol to crystallize. You might be able to appreciate, or will be able to i guess, the significance of one ester we prepared, the 3,4 methylenedioxyphenylacetate ester of nandrolone lol.
if calcium hydroxide is not strong enough to form the diphenolate with estradiol i can only take your word as a fellow chemical scholar that it is so. in methanol I have never had issues with stoiciometric use of caoh2 with morphine derivs. i have never seen the need to go through this procedure when dhea is everywhere, all you ever need can be synth'd from dhea, of particular ease is test, methyltest, methandro, boldenone, even drostanolone, the syntheses are easier than the conversion from implants.
the purity of the product, again we agree to disagree, the excipients of synovex are either water soluble or alcohol soluble or other, that which is soluble in methanol is usually also soluble in water (many exceptions ) usually pill matter is not alc soluble so when you dissolve in methanol filter through a good tight whatman and there that goes, remaining dissolved in methanol will likely be soluble in water to a greater extent and will stay dissolved when the tp is ppt'd, besides a recryst from methanol will keep any solubles dissolved and xtallize only tp which is filtered and crystallized from methanol again. the purity i refer to is that there is no left over synthesis chemicals or androstenedione=ol or dht, its pure tp. besides there is nothing toxic in synovex, thats why its for internal use.
i really appreciate this intelligent argument, its nice to run into other hot headed chemists out there, we are very opinionated. I'm an SFU BSc biochem MSc org synth and VanisleU DPPC gone rogue illicit retard, don't use this shite, its for the birds, i have great interest in their synthesis and dist. though. Yourself?
If you are interested in any of the notes from synthesis attempts that were deamed successful I'd happily pm them to you, most are totally otc and kitchen friendly. Lots of them are here on ef, i used to post under a different name.
Wow, there are so many different ideas about how to do this out there. I have converted fina with great results and am just trying syno for the first time. I purchased a 10G kit from MonsteXXXXXa with 5CCs if an "estro-solubilizer". Dissolved my pellets in HEET, added the estro-solubilizer, waited the prescribed hour (with some precipitate, but I read that was okay and expected), then "slowly" added about 500cc of sterile water. I filtered out the powder using 2 HEPA masks. After drying for 3 days, i weighed the chalky white powder and it weighed 28g. I should have, at best, ended up with 20g of test prop powder. I am going to use more methanol (HEET) and repeat the process, more slowly with ice water now. I assume my extra weight may have been a little water still in the powder, although it was pretty dry. This is component e-h Im talking about here, just to be clear. At no point did i end up with clear crystals. When i added water to my solution before filtering, there were what appeared to be long (3mm-ish) thin crystals but they weren't in tact when i filtered out the test. I am thinking that repeating the process with chilled water will give me the crystals that i expected. Any suggestions? No need to point out that i really dont know what im doing, this is clearly a science experiment and i realize i may have to try a couple of times before getting it right. thanks all
there is a forum specifically for homebrew--may find more answers there--lots of knowledgeable bros there.
Thanks, i went ahead and repeated the process, a lot slower with chilled water and with the methanol sitting in an ice bath in a beaker. The crystals looked great, but since the methanol was in an ice bath they all formed on the bottom. I took it out and just added chilled distilled water (to the methanol and test solution) and saw the crystals growing throughout. Ill post with my final product weight. Thanks for the responses and not blasting me on my first post.
