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Strength But No Mass Gains

ExtraMile

High End Bro
Platinum
I know there has been a couple similar thread like this lately but the answer they got was diet, I feel my diet is pretty good right now though so I wanted to know what people thought of this.

I have started doing a routine similar to the wendlay 5/3/1 but with some alterations. I do a squat day, bench day, deadlift day and shoulder rpess day. I start with those lifts and then go onto assistance stuff in the 10-15 rep range for hypertrophy.

Squats i hit a single, then a set of 20
Deads i hit a single then a set of 5 at a deficit
Bench I hit a double then a set of 15
Shoulder Press I hit a couple sets of 6-9

after squats I do walkin db lunge, leg curls and calves
after deads I do leg press, barbell curl, seated calves and reverse curl
after bench I do incline DB, one arm rows, facepulls and tri extensions
after shoulder press I do wide chins, deep dips, laterals and machine curls

I have been doing this for about 2 weeks now and each workout I set PR's on most lifts, last workout I set 9 pr's. before this routine I did a split BBer type & had decent strength gains on that but not as good as what Im getting now.

My diet looks like this:

Breakfast:
50-75g oats + 200ml whole milk + either blueberries, dired apricots or raisens made into porridge - aprox 45-60g carbs, 10g Protein
3 whole eggs, 200-250g or organic cottage cheese Protein is either 20g or 28g from this, almost no carbs and 15g fat if I have the eggs.

11.15:
100g chicken w/ wholemeal pitter bread + salad - 20g Protein, 30g carbs

12.35:
100g chicken w/ wholemeal pitter bread + salad - 20g Protein, 30g carbs

4.00-5.00pm:
either 200g chicken breast, 4 whole eggs or 190-225g lean steak with either brown rice, wholemeal bread or cous cous. Protien and carbs vary here but usually 30-45g Protein, 30-60g carbs

8.00pm: (post workout)
usually 200-300g lean steak w/ 200g potatoes & broccoli

11.00pm: pre bed
250g organic cottage cheese or more eggs if I havnt had them earlier with veggies. Or if I went to the gym later than my post workout meal is eaten at like 9.30 so I skip this meal and go to bed at 10.30-11.00...

yet I dont gain much mass at all, I get good DOMS and great strength gains but barely any size gains...

what is the problem?
 
breakfast ~30g
11.15+12.35 40g
4.00-5.00pm ~55g
pwo ~50-60g
pre bead 30g

im eating aprox 1.3xbw in protein about 200-225 on a perfect day. How much should I up it by? 1.5xbw would be 255g how about that?

easily breakfast i can up protein w/ more eggs if I drop the carbs a little to like 45g. 300ml beaten eggs is 36g protein makin that meal more like 40g. where else can I add stuff? before bed i dont wanna add more eggs...
 
breakfast ~30g
11.15+12.35 40g
4.00-5.00pm ~55g
pwo ~50-60g
pre bead 30g

im eating aprox 1.3xbw in protein about 200-225 on a perfect day. How much should I up it by? 1.5xbw would be 255g how about that?

easily breakfast i can up protein w/ more eggs if I drop the carbs a little to like 45g. 300ml beaten eggs is 36g protein makin that meal more like 40g. where else can I add stuff? before bed i dont wanna add more eggs...

Take a shake to the gym and drink it immediately pwo. 50g of protein and 50g of carbs in that shake would be great. That would give you some extra kcal when your body really needs it.
 
i would start with an extra 10g to every meal and see what that does for you.
 

no way bro if im havin pwo carbs its gotta be wine gums man im addicted to them and they have no fat in them. if i was an ecto i would eat a bag a day or more, 850 cals in a bag and around 150g carbs lolol

wine gums are a type of brit candy if you dont have them in usa...

10g of pro to every meal or 50g pro after workout both would add 50g to my diet but the shake would only do it on workout days...

im thinkin of gettin some creatine too so whey+creatine would go in a shake well but cost ÂŁÂŁÂŁ :worried:
 
no way bro if im havin pwo carbs its gotta be wine gums man im addicted to them and they have no fat in them. if i was an ecto i would eat a bag a day or more, 850 cals in a bag and around 150g carbs lolol

wine gums are a type of brit candy if you dont have them in usa...

10g of pro to every meal or 50g pro after workout both would add 50g to my diet but the shake would only do it on workout days...

im thinkin of gettin some creatine too so whey+creatine would go in a shake well but cost ÂŁÂŁÂŁ :worried:

Candy is not good for pwo imo.

You need to decide whether you want to gain mass or cut body fat. Doing both at the same time is very hard to do.
 
Candy is not good for pwo imo.

You need to decide whether you want to gain mass or cut body fat. Doing both at the same time is very hard to do.

+1. It is very simple man. You are cutting. I've seen your body weight go from 183 to 170 in the past few months. You can't expect to grow like that. You are getting stronger because you are relatively new to lifting weights and cause you are 15! You are going to respond to everything.

If you want to get big you have to eat. Don't restrict your cals in the height of your growth spurt/puberty. Your body will come into its own around 18. Focus on form and strength and good lifting habits like water, sleep, vitamins, 5-6 meals a day etc.

I recommend you read "burn the fat, feed the muscle" by tom venuto. It will help you understand how important diet is and how you can manipulate your metabolism and fat stores by what you eat. AND you can do this without being in caloric defecit.
 
+1. It is very simple man. You are cutting. I've seen your body weight go from 183 to 170 in the past few months. You can't expect to grow like that. You are getting stronger because you are relatively new to lifting weights and cause you are 15! You are going to respond to everything.

If you want to get big you have to eat. Don't restrict your cals in the height of your growth spurt/puberty. Your body will come into its own around 18. Focus on form and strength and good lifting habits like water, sleep, vitamins, 5-6 meals a day etc.

I recommend you read "burn the fat, feed the muscle" by tom venuto. It will help you understand how important diet is and how you can manipulate your metabolism and fat stores by what you eat. AND you can do this without being in caloric defecit.

yep iv gone from 183 to 171 in 6 months. thats half a pound a week or so.

i would say i would rather loose fat than get bigger atm but the thing is, fat loss is so slow with me its not even rewarding anymore i barely see a differance. If I could loose fat faster then that would be differant, i would do it now and get it over with and ideally get to about 12% bf then concentrate on size

burn the fat feed the muscle - is that a book? if so were can i get it?
 
itsa online e-book. google it. it is worth the money. I need to re-read it.

After you read it don't drop cals below maintanence. use exercise and tom's eating methods to burn the fat, not restricting cals.
 
itsa online e-book. google it. it is worth the money. I need to re-read it.

After you read it don't drop cals below maintanence. use exercise and tom's eating methods to burn the fat, not restricting cals.

would you say my cals are restricted now? i didnt think they were Im just trying to eat relatively clean...
 
I know there has been a couple similar thread like this lately but the answer they got was diet, I feel my diet is pretty good right now though so I wanted to know what people thought of this.

I have started doing a routine similar to the wendlay 5/3/1 but with some alterations. I do a squat day, bench day, deadlift day and shoulder rpess day. I start with those lifts and then go onto assistance stuff in the 10-15 rep range for hypertrophy.

Squats i hit a single, then a set of 20
Deads i hit a single then a set of 5 at a deficit
Bench I hit a double then a set of 15
Shoulder Press I hit a couple sets of 6-9

after squats I do walkin db lunge, leg curls and calves
after deads I do leg press, barbell curl, seated calves and reverse curl
after bench I do incline DB, one arm rows, facepulls and tri extensions
after shoulder press I do wide chins, deep dips, laterals and machine curls

I have been doing this for about 2 weeks now and each workout I set PR's on most lifts, last workout I set 9 pr's. before this routine I did a split BBer type & had decent strength gains on that but not as good as what Im getting now.

My diet looks like this:

Breakfast:
50-75g oats + 200ml whole milk + either blueberries, dired apricots or raisens made into porridge - aprox 45-60g carbs, 10g Protein
3 whole eggs, 200-250g or organic cottage cheese Protein is either 20g or 28g from this, almost no carbs and 15g fat if I have the eggs.

11.15:
100g chicken w/ wholemeal pitter bread + salad - 20g Protein, 30g carbs

12.35:
100g chicken w/ wholemeal pitter bread + salad - 20g Protein, 30g carbs

4.00-5.00pm:
either 200g chicken breast, 4 whole eggs or 190-225g lean steak with either brown rice, wholemeal bread or cous cous. Protien and carbs vary here but usually 30-45g Protein, 30-60g carbs

8.00pm: (post workout)
usually 200-300g lean steak w/ 200g potatoes & broccoli

11.00pm: pre bed
250g organic cottage cheese or more eggs if I havnt had them earlier with veggies. Or if I went to the gym later than my post workout meal is eaten at like 9.30 so I skip this meal and go to bed at 10.30-11.00...

yet I dont gain much mass at all, I get good DOMS and great strength gains but barely any size gains...

what is the problem?

Lack of patience.

I think you have done a good job putting together both your training AND diet. Be patient. Also 5/3/1 is a strength program...not a muscle builing program. You may switch to German Volume training for 6-8 weeks...then go back to your 5/3/1 routine.
 
Lack of patience.

I think you have done a good job putting together both your training AND diet. Be patient. Also 5/3/1 is a strength program...not a muscle builing program. You may switch to German Volume training for 6-8 weeks...then go back to your 5/3/1 routine.

well its not the 5/3/1 just based on that, so you dont think even with hitting some assistance compounds after in the hypertrophy range would work? liek i said that what im doing atm...
 
would you say my cals are restricted now? i didnt think they were Im just trying to eat relatively clean...

if you've lost 13 lbs yes. you have to eat more clean food to equal the cals in a dirty diet. It is worth it and will become a lifestyle. Your friends will think you're weird carrying a cooler of hardboiled eggs, roast beef, and fresh veges but in your and my case it is worth it. I didn't realize the power of diet until I came here. I wasted 13 years of training.

I always tried to be lean and that limited my growth. read the book, use the book. Turn your body into an oven. You can actually FEEL the increase in metabolism.

I gain weight easily but always add lots of fat (which sounds like your case). You need to keep yourself fed for maintanence, strength, energy, growth and injury prevention. Diet will always be an issue for everyone but mesos.

As future said you need patience. You are comparing yourself to full grown adults, many of which have used steroids for years. Of course they will be bigger and stronger. Keep staying the course. You are strong and getting leaner by the day. Everyone on this board has been where you are at some point in our training and many of us wish we could go back to start and do things over.

Training like you are before you are even through puberty will tell your body that it needs to grow and adpat to handle the heavy loads and intense training in adulthood. Wait till you turn 18-19-20...then weightlifting gets real fun as your body fills out, shoulders broaden, growth accelerates, and strength goes through the roof.
You will be money ahead. Keep your flexibility too. Muscles lose their flexibility as you get older.

You will be a machine...promise.
 
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well its not the 5/3/1 just based on that, so you dont think even with hitting some assistance compounds after in the hypertrophy range would work? liek i said that what im doing atm...

Just be consistent and patient. Switch it up if you need to but I think you are doing very well. PATIENCE! I promise you will be very pleased at the end result.
 
if you've lost 13 lbs yes. you have to eat more clean food to equal the cals in a dirty diet. It is worth it and will become a lifestyle. Your friends will think you're weird carrying a cooler of hardboiled eggs, roast beef, and fresh veges but in your and my case it is worth it. I didn't realize the power of diet until I came here. I wasted 13 years of training.

I always tried to be lean and that limited my growth. read the book, use the book. Turn your body into an oven. You can actually FEEL the increase in metabolism.

I gain weight easily but always add lots of fat (which sounds like your case). You need to keep yourself fed for maintanence, strength, energy, growth and injury prevention. Diet will always be an issue for everyone but mesos.

As future said you need patience. You are comparing yourself to full grown adults, many of which have used steroids for years. Of course they will be bigger and stronger. Keep staying the course. You are strong and getting leaner by the day. Everyone on this board has been where you are at some point in our training and many of us wish we could go back to start and do things over.

Training like you are before you are even through puberty will tell your body that it needs to grow and adpat to handle the heavy loads and intense training in adulthood. Wait till you turn 18-19-20...then weightlifting gets real fun as your body fills out, shoulders broaden, growth accelerates, and strength goes through the roof.
You will be money ahead. Keep your flexibility too. Muscles lose their flexibility as you get older.

You will be a machine...promise.
-yes i really need to get used to eating clean, sugar cravings are the worst atm, if I can make it a habit I think I will do much better with diet. Im just reading the part of the e-book abotu setting goals and Im gonna put them into my journal, some will sound stupid but whatever

-well yes I always gained weight easily as a kid, I was always heavier than all my friends and a little chubby, when i started training my diet was never spot on but i ate alot of eggs and drank alot of milk. I gained 35lbs in 5 and a half months. However I dont seem to visibly gain muscle size very easily. I got alot thicker looking in that period of time but addnig 35lbs only added 1 inch to my biceps for example, my measurements didnt exactly go through the roof. Since then I have changed very little not just got alot stronger and a little leaner...

-I know Im very impatient and I know this isnt an overnight thing but i really think my progress has slowed and i havnt really dropped calories all that much, like i said lately iv concentrated on my diet more and im not on that much of a reduced calorie diet if it had taken 6 months to loose 13lbs, thats half a pound a week...
 
Not being rude to you .....
You are working hard and smart. Getting strong but not huge.
Been there.

Consider reducing the overall daily and weekly load on your body and adding
some additioanl recovery time.

bro i just have i was doing a 4 day a week split and now iv gone back down to a 3 day, i've always prefered 3 day splits.

i think the answer is more overall calories and use cardio to control them instead of cutting them back... damn i hate cardio

Fuck I thought I had my diet pretty nailed...

and lol how would i take that as being rude
 
I've been talking to joe d, AA and SL through pm's and Iv decided what Im gonna do is scrap the idea of trying to gain strength and size AND cut bf at the same time because its just resulting in extreme slow fat loss and extreme slow size gain. What Im gonna do is for a while try and maintain the bf % I have and up my clean cals. Im gonna add in a litre of milk a day which wont effect my appetite because its not really that much. Thats 620 kcals easily. Also Im gonna buy some whey and get a shake pwo of 40-50g protein and 40-50g fast carbs, thats another 320-400kcals which is up 900-1000kcals on workout days easily. Finally Ill increase my portions slightly and see what happens.

Ill be keeping the cardio though to try and stop any fat gains.
 
Well so much for given encouragement to you. ;) I guess being PATIENT isn't a simple enough answer.
 
Well so much for given encouragement to you. ;) I guess being PATIENT isn't a simple enough answer.

sorry bro didnt mean it as an offence, and i know im not patient enough, but Im not changing routine or anything, not doing anything drastic, just adding milk back into my diet, stopping the fasted morning cardio and adding in a pwo shake.

not to over the top is it?
 
this is a pretty obvious situation. youre 15 and your body is not preferentially putting the calories youre eating into muscle growth like it would someone has matured and stopped growing bones, organs, skin, and all that other shit like a 15 year old is. whats the rush?
 
I've been talking to joe d, AA and SL through pm's and Iv decided what Im gonna do is scrap the idea of trying to gain strength and size AND cut bf at the same time because its just resulting in extreme slow fat loss and extreme slow size gain. What Im gonna do is for a while try and maintain the bf % I have and up my clean cals. Im gonna add in a litre of milk a day which wont effect my appetite because its not really that much. Thats 620 kcals easily. Also Im gonna buy some whey and get a shake pwo of 40-50g protein and 40-50g fast carbs, thats another 320-400kcals which is up 900-1000kcals on workout days easily. Finally Ill increase my portions slightly and see what happens.

Ill be keeping the cardio though to try and stop any fat gains.

good descicion...
 
i was wrong. its definately mary palm.
 
sorry bro didnt mean it as an offence, and i know im not patient enough, but Im not changing routine or anything, not doing anything drastic, just adding milk back into my diet, stopping the fasted morning cardio and adding in a pwo shake.

not to over the top is it?

You are just more intelligent and well spoken than you give yourself credit for. And strength wise you are doing VERY well.

No those little tweaks wont hurt you.
 
You are just more intelligent and well spoken than you give yourself credit for. And strength wise you are doing VERY well.

No those little tweaks wont hurt you.

:) thanks bro, Ill let you know how it goes

what happened to your operation offseason??
 
A few more comments:
- thanks for the k.
- I had no idea how young you are (15). My complements on the way you express yourself and depth of knowledge.
- Recovery is so dam important. In the 1970's there was a course called Getting Huge. It stressed 2 sets, 2 exercises, 10-6 reps, once a week through the entire body. We all tried it and started to grow. But we were addicted to 20 sets. LOL
- My first trip to LA ... I show my routine to 2 guys at Gold's who are built like monsters and they laugh. "Even Arnold doesn't workout like this!" They simply cut me back to no more than 6 reps and twice a week through the body rather than 3 times.
I gained 10 pounds almost overnight. From 175 to 185. LOL No aas.
 
No offense bro, but you're 14....how much more mass do you expect to gain at this age? Your bones and muscles aren't even complete yet...I think you've done a good job for a 14 year old, but you can't expect to build the pyramids overnight.
 
A few more comments:
- thanks for the k.
- I had no idea how young you are (15). My complements on the way you express yourself and depth of knowledge.
- Recovery is so dam important. In the 1970's there was a course called Getting Huge. It stressed 2 sets, 2 exercises, 10-6 reps, once a week through the entire body. We all tried it and started to grow. But we were addicted to 20 sets. LOL
- My first trip to LA ... I show my routine to 2 guys at Gold's who are built like monsters and they laugh. "Even Arnold doesn't workout like this!" They simply cut me back to no more than 6 reps and twice a week through the body rather than 3 times.
I gained 10 pounds almost overnight. From 175 to 185. LOL No aas.

sweet bro you'll have to remind me of that when Im lookin for a somethin new to do...
 
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