Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

STOP taking so much protein!!!

S

sk*

New member
I always stressed protein intake but now I realize that too much isn't essential for proper growth. Recently I haven't been taking in nearly enough protein and my gains have followed just as regular. I used to shug down protein shakes and eat everything in sight and gain as much as I do now without the whole hussle.

Maybe you're different but I gain just fine with just 200mg protein and I am 250-255lbs.

-sk
 
I second that. I am 250, but anything over 200g per day seems like a waste. I don't know where people get the idea that you need 2g/lb--that's just insane.
 
cyp said:
I second that. I am 250, but anything over 200g per day seems like a waste. I don't know where people get the idea that you need 2g/lb--that's just insane.
Click to expand...

Funny thing is that's how much I always took and insane amounts of ginger root too, but I do just fine with half that and my regular 2ginger root pills before my meals. :)

-sk
 
1.7-1.9 gms of protein per KILO of bodyweight is optimal from what i have read. In the numerous studies i have seen any less is counter-productive... and in the super high protein diets some studies show better gains in LBM, while the majority of others show no better effect...
 
Lift Chief said:
1.7-1.9 gms of protein per KILO of bodyweight is optimal from what i have read. In the numerous studies i have seen any less is counter-productive... and in the super high protein diets some studies show better gains in LBM, while the majority of others show no better effect...
Click to expand...

That seems about right, I used to always take 2X bodyweight in LBS not kilos.

-sk
 
if you can get by with less protein and still make your gains it is probably a good idea - myself too much protein and forced feedings my gut gets all fucked up and it ruins me for a week or two until I get cleaned out and return to normal - this can fuck up a cycle
 
BigTimer said:
what do ginger root pills do
Click to expand...

I think it is a digestive aid. Also, back to the topic, ins't there a limit to the amount of protien you can absorb say per day?

Seems like this would be the max amount of protein you would want to ingest per day. Any amount over that would simply be excreted.
 
doublebicep said:


I think it is a digestive aid. Also, back to the topic, ins't there a limit to the amount of protien you can absorb say per day?

Seems like this would be the max amount of protein you would want to ingest per day. Any amount over that would simply be excreted.
Click to expand...

Yea but many believe that the limit that can be absorbed with ginger root is 2X bodyweight in LBS or so, but I made this thread to disagree with the norm. :D

-sk
 
I totaly

agree, I can maintain my size with only 150 grams a day, gain with around 200 a day. I feel carbs are more a factor for putting on muscle than protien, they spare it for straight muscle building.
 
Re: I totaly

me2dammit said:
agree, I can maintain my size with only 150 grams a day, gain with around 200 a day. I feel carbs are more a factor for putting on muscle than protien, they spare it for straight muscle building.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree with you more, but carbs also put on a lot of fat on me if I don't pay attention to them.

-sk
 
I will always bring the xample of jails/prisons. A good bunch of inmates have impressive bodies. They barely eat 80 g of protein ED. They dont have fancy PT or equipment. I know it's hard for some unfortunate people to understand that but genetics has a lot to say on your look....
 
i think i might try those ginger root pills,also did Lift Chief mean 1.7-1.9 per pound,cause if its per kilo that would only be like only .8 per pound
 
Well, I have always gained at 200 plus grams per day. Recently I seem to have stalled though so I am going to try 300 per day for one week to see what happens.
 
Well, I have always gained at 200 plus grams per day. Recently I seem to have stalled though so I am going to try 300 per day for one week to see what happens.
 
Well, I have always gained at 200 plus grams per day. Recently I seem to have stalled though so I am going to try 300 per day for one week to see what happens.
 
SK* has it rite on the money.. excess carbs will get turned into sugar its not just gonna hang around and wait to be stored as muscle...

its much more important to keep a steady intake of protien and a GOOD amount of LONG lasting protiens at nite.. but CARBS and FAT provide the body with energy to build muslce.. so if you are at a stall and you are already getting 1 - 1.5grams of protien per lb of lean muscle mass then you most likely need to increase your carb or fat (efa's are best) intake to keep the gains going...
 
BigTimer said:
i think i might try those ginger root pills,also did Lift Chief mean 1.7-1.9 per pound,cause if its per kilo that would only be like only .8 per pound
Click to expand...

That's right bro it's 1.7-1.9 per kilo.
 
I had a nutrition class a while ago and the RDA was 0.83g/kg body weight... for north americans..

For a 70kg person.. you will only need 58g/day.. which isn't much, but at 1.7-1.9/day.. that may work..
 
do you guys think protein is protein, as in shakes from food? i have read a few intelligent threads that say they get better results from just quality whole foods, while theres some guys that live off of shakes
 
You guys getting huge off 200 grams a day must be 150 sopping wet and workout 2 days a week. Sure, your body is going to make gains on that little.

Try being 255 and juiced, working out every day 20 sets per body part, you will need more protein than that. 2 grams per lb is what i eat. This is why you guys are never going to get huge. Maybe you just want to be run of the mill at your gym, i don't know. I'm trying not to flame you guys, but this is what i always see at my gym. Guys just getting into it come up and ask for advice on how to get fucking huge and want to half ass it at every given chance.

You have to train like an animal and eat like an animal.
 
horsePOWER said:
do you guys think protein is protein, as in shakes from food? i have read a few intelligent threads that say they get better results from just quality whole foods, while theres some guys that live off of shakes
Click to expand...

Food is best. Go with food as much as possible... but sometimes you just don't have the time or whatever so go with a shake. The only time a shake is better than food would be post-workout because WPI gets absorbed by your body more quickly than food that has to be digested.
 
naw

I'm over 270, but I agree food is important its just protein is overrated.

I gained with alot of carbs, moderate protein and moderate fat.

People forget big eaters gain mucle ,protein just happens to be part of food. The protein thing happened with all these magazines trying to sell their shit!!!!!

Also on a side note I see guy everywhere 180lbs eating 300+ grams a protein a day and dont gain shit, but if they drop that down and up carbs thats when they will put on the serious mass.

And peope are right about jail, some of the best physiques are built on carbs.
 
I agree.

People take in WAY to much protein. Even if you are on a cycle your body can only take in so much protein.

btw....what's up guys!!
 
Well I do about 450-500 grams a day. 350 or so from powders. I believe that if the Protein is high grade with a high amount of that being Hydrolasate you can consume and utilize this amount of protein.

Quad
 
Last edited:
I would like to hear some science on this but I tend to agree with Jimsbbc "You have to train like an animal and eat like an animal."
Think about If you want to be the size of two men you have to eat like two men.
 
i don't think that i've ever exceeded 200g of protein in one day... maybe once or twice, but certainly not regularly...

carbs, on the other hand... probably eaten a kilo of carbs in one day before...
 
http://inch-aweigh.com/foodtofat.html

This link has an article which talks about how the body processes food and it makes an interesting point that too much protein turns into sugars and fats.

The protein hype is out of hand from people selling the stuff. Sure it may help, but I don't recall Arnold ever taking in 600g/day of protein and he was in great shape. I believe no marketing hype unless I see the controlled scientific studies to back it up. Marketing of supplements in the US has no ethics, no science and very few facts. It is absolutely pathetic. At least Nike doesn't advertise that buying their running shoes will give you the ability of running 10 miles. If you believe everything the clown in GNC tells you, then you will end up buying the store. Come on you all are smarter than that.

The key to growing is busting your ass in the gym. I don't care what you eat or inject if you don't train like a freak and get adequate rest, then you will not grow. There are plenty of monkeys in every gym doing 2g of protein/lb. and they are not getting big.
 
In the three years i have been here this has got to be one of the best posts i have seen yet.

It's good to see people standing up against common perception and the magazine propaganda. You are the guys who think the world is round instead of flat!

I truely think the only time high protien ( above 1 gram per lbs of bodyweight ) is really useful or important is when your dieting. Lowering carbs and fats in your diet will cause muscle loss unless your protien intake can compensate for the cals loss to not only preserve muscle tissue but assist dieting by acting as a themogenic.

If your talking about strictly making gains in size and streangth well then a good carb intake with a sufficient protien intake will be enough. It always will depend on your genetics and metabolism on how much protien you should eat but ask any strongmen , powerlifter , even sumo wrestlers how they got to a size / bodyweight of over 300lbs in terms of nutrition and i can assure you it wasn't from a low carb / 600grams a day protein diet. Bodybuilders in precontest , ok , eat higher protien but you missing the boat if you think you need 400grams of protien a day to gain size and streangth.

You have to ask yourself WHO is promoting these huge protien intakes? Well in the past 8 years the only groups that really push that practice that i can remember is some paper known as FLEX magazine and that other one....um...well....what was the name...oh yeah...MUSCLEMAG!

Between every article that features a pro bodybuilder talking about how he got 400grams of protien a day from drinking NITRO-TECH is an ad for some protien powder or protien bar. After every article from some ghost writer on the Flex team talking about how you need over 300 grams of protien a day to gain a single lbs is an ad for a protien product by the guy who OWNS the magazine....what's his name..Joe Weider?

It never fails...if you don't beelive me see it for yourself. And i'm supposed to belive this biased drool which is a pathetic excuse for informative writing to be factual. I'm saying that the pro's are not eating high protien diets but if you eat a clean diet , train hard , and take a moderate amount of supplements the protien intake does not have to be ridiculous to gain all the size you want.

I will cite the famous line by the great Public Enemy: DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!!!
 
Jimsbbc said:
You guys getting huge off 200 grams a day must be 150 sopping wet and workout 2 days a week. Sure, your body is going to make gains on that little.

Try being 255 and juiced, working out every day 20 sets per body part, you will need more protein than that. 2 grams per lb is what i eat. This is why you guys are never going to get huge. Maybe you just want to be run of the mill at your gym, i don't know. I'm trying not to flame you guys, but this is what i always see at my gym. Guys just getting into it come up and ask for advice on how to get fucking huge and want to half ass it at every given chance.

You have to train like an animal and eat like an animal.
Click to expand...

Maybe your problem is the 20sets, that's just way too much.

-sk
 
sk* said:


Yea but many believe that the limit that can be absorbed with ginger root is 2X bodyweight in LBS or so, but I made this thread to disagree with the norm. :D

-sk
Click to expand...

Awesum post sk*. Good discussion that generated a lot of useful info!
 
Nice post. IMHO, timing and quality are more important than a number. Post workout and pre bedtime seem to be the most critical points for me. I eat a little bit of protien all day as the body really can't store it such as carbs.
 
why take chances? i'd rather over-consume that under-consume.
we work our asses off in the gym, and spend a bunch of money on gear, supplements and food. so to potentially hinder growth by shorting my body the protein that it may or may not require makes no sense.

i don't know about 300-400g a day, but 200-250 is what i take.
 
I agree with sk* 100%!! We've been forced-fed by the glossy Mags(ie.Flex, M&F, Muscle Media, etc..) and Supplement Companies(ie.EAS, Weider, Twinlab, etc...) that you need 1.5-2 grams of Protein per bodyweight while natural to gain which just isn't true!! Now if you are "enhanced", that's another story. But even then, there's only SO much your body can utilize. 500-600 grams of Protein a day is way TOO much. I gain well off of 200-240 grams of protein a day and I weigh 245-250lbs.
 
It all depends on how much carbs you take in. Low carb diets need a good amount of preotein, higher carb diets you can get by with .7-1g per pound of BW.
 
hey guys since we're talking about protien,i was wondering whats a good amount to take in if u just want to keep the muscle u gained after a cycle,cause i just wanna keep what i have and not take excessive amounts iif not necessary
 
A better thing to do while bulking would be to cycle a few days with high protein followed by a few days of low protein.

Any of you that venture over to the Women's board will know that MS is a big fan of this and has explained the benefits of doing such a regimine. Try doing a search under her name and filter it out to both the women's board and the diet board. OR, you could probably just post a thread over there, and I am sure she will see it and respond.

Protein cycling is great.

My response is targeted only toward "bulking" set-ups, as I always have high protein when cutting.

BMJ
 
Interview with Nasser el sonbaty:


Q: Do you belive in massive amounts of protein (ie, 1.5gr per lb. of body weight or more), why or why not?

Nasser: Everyone has different DNA and a different gene pool and different metabolism. I belong to the group-type who can maintain my size by not having protein for weeks. To put size on, I do not need more than 100gr of protein daily. High protein intake for me is only important during my pre contest diet.

Q: What kind of daily caloric intake do you have during off-season?
Nasser: I do have a middle-slow/middle-fast metabolism and I'm not a big eater at all. During the off -season I don't consume more than 3000 to 4000 calories per day. It doesn't necessarily mean the bigger you are the more you're eating.

Q: When preparing for a contest, how does your carb intake differ from the off-season intake?
Nasser: My carb intake during off-season is about 80% of my total daily caloric intake with 20% comprising of protein and fats. My pre-contest carb intake is around 80 - 250 grams per day with between 400 - 600 grams of protein per day.
http://www.hugenasserelsonbaty.com/personalprofile.html
 
I myself can't gain no matter what. I always try and 200grams+ just from shakes then have three meals and snacks throughout the day. I've kinda got used to my 700am,900am,200pm,postworkout and before bed shakes.
 
Okay, I bumped up a GREAT thread on the women's board titled "Bill Roberts on protein intake and steroids" by Realgains. If you cannot learn something from this thread, then I do not know what else to tell ya. There was some good insight from some well respected and VERY knowledgeable people such as MS, Wilson6, nandi12, Realgains, etc....

This is a really good post that some of you probably never got to read because you may not go there (probably the best board at times IMO).

Actually, it should probably be put in the "Best of Elite" board....IMO.

If you are too lazy to venture over there, then here is the link:
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158423&highlight=protein+cycling

Hopefully some of you can add to it and make it even greater!!!

BMJ
 
im a true endomorph and carbs kill me.bulking or cutting i keep carbs low except my binge days lol.
always hight protein, never the same so i guess its more liike protein cycling.
usua;;y three days high two moderate and one day eat mostly carbs then start over lol
i thinkits more individual then anything.would also like too see some pics of the 200 gram protein people weighin in at 250plus, unless you at a truely high bodyfat.
i think the pholisphy is protein times you lean mass.
why add more too fat only too what truely muscle
 
Here are my 2 cents worth from a thread at CEM:

I think this is a topic that could be argued indefinitely. Most of the experts say protein requirements are in this range for strength athletes:

"Present data indicate that strength athletes should consume approximately 12-15% of their daily total energy intake as protein, or about 1.5-2.0 g protein/kg.d-1 (approximately 188-250% of the U.S. recommended dietary allowance). Although routinely consumed by many strength athletes, higher protein intakes have not been shown to be consistently effective and may even be associated with some health risks." (1)

I get around 200 grams a day and do OK. The question always arises whether you need more on steroids. I don't know. One could make a case either way.

For instance, amino acid flux studies of people using steroids generally show lower rates of amino acids leaving cells, suggesting that the cells are recycling their proteins for muscle rebuilding more efficiently when a person is using steroids:

"We recently reported that 5 days of oxandrolone administration increased skeletal muscle anabolism by stimulation of protein synthesis, because protein breakdown was unchanged (15). Also, we reported a significant decrease in outward amino acid transport (FV,M), along with a calculated increase in protein synthetic efficiency, together indicating increased intracellular reutilization of amino acid"

This would argue for lower protein intake while juicing.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/278/2/E273

Torsten, an MD at our site has presented compelling studies showing that a high protein diet actually leads to a catabolic state by inducing low grade metabolic acidosis. (Amino acids are acidic, after all.) The acidosis elevates cortisol levels leading to muscle catabolism. The low pH degrades bones, and the calcium is deposited as kidney stones. Unless a person undertakes a serious buffering regimen (potassium citrate is best according to studies presented by Dr. Torsten) the acidosis will be a serious impediment to gains.



(1) Int J Sport Nutr 1991 Jun;1(2):127-45
Protein and amino acid needs of the strength athlete.
Lemon PW.
Applied Physiology Research Laboratory, Kent State University, OH 44242


www.cuttinedgemuscle.com
[email protected]
[email protected]
 
hard as rocks said:
im a true endomorph and carbs kill me.bulking or cutting i keep carbs low except my binge days lol.
always hight protein, never the same so i guess its more liike protein cycling.
usua;;y three days high two moderate and one day eat mostly carbs then start over lol
i thinkits more individual then anything.would also like too see some pics of the 200 gram protein people weighin in at 250plus, unless you at a truely high bodyfat.
i think the pholisphy is protein times you lean mass.
why add more too fat only too what truely muscle
Click to expand...

My picture isn't really the point, the point is that I keep getting stronger with a lesser protein intake.

-sk
 
Definately carbs play a huge factor in adding size. I dont think adding 40g of protein with no calories will help put on weight like adding 10g of protein and 750 calories will. Granted, only use this principle if juicing, so carbs will be utilized properly...........galaxy
 
How much Protein would you recommend for someone 6'4" 255-260lbs 18%bf trying to lose bodyfat while dieting NATURALLY? Would 1 gram per pound of bodyweight be sufficient in retaining muscle mass???
 
At least 2x BW in grams of protein a day. I'm eating about 400-500 g of protein a day, moderate carbs (cut off after 6PM or so)and fats, and I'm gaining 2-3 lbs a WEEK NATURAL! I'm following DC's training pretty much to a T, which by the way the post I made about it is now a sticky on the training board with over 300 posts, you guys should check it out and possibly reevaluate your training and eating.
 
even when i was making outrageous gains, i was never over 200g of protein a day and i'm only 170 lbs. body builder say take 1.5-2.0 g of protein per body pound, yet every study has shown that all you need is just under 1g protein per body pound.
 
Every study eh? nclifter said something like this and DC replied...

DOGGCRAPP said:
NCLIFTER::- the only fault i see with your thinking is your suggestion on protien consumption
you suggest 400+ grams a day in protien, correct? do you suggest this same amount for natural athletes aswell?
i dont see your logic in that. anything over .9-1.0 grams of protien per pound of lean bodymass just gets converted into glucose or a carbohydrate. that has been proven
id like to hear your thoughts on that.

Doggcrapp:: your generalizing that a 330lb offseason monster like Nasser El Sonbaty or Markus Ruhl assimilate protein at the same rate as a 105lb fitness model.
I posted about this subject on another board--Ill just copy what I wrote there. There is evidence (see papers by Peter Lemon) that intense activity may increase protein requirements in order to maintain a positive nitrogen balance and avoid the loss of lean muscle tissue. The most recent requirements for athletes in intensive training (a term which requires definition as it may be that some threshold may exist for when additional protein above the RDA of .8 g/kg bodyweight is required) are: Strength athletes: 1.8 g/kg bodyweight and I've seen up to 2g/kg suggested as possible more effective. Dr Peter Lemon has been at this for over a decade now and his g/kg bodyweight figure is constantly going upwards. Data from Tarnpolosky with European athletes shows that massive protein intakes of up to 3.5 g/kg further increase lean mass gains. In the early 1970’s, a study of weightlifters showed that these athletes needed at least 2.2 gr/kg. Two decades later Russian research demonstrated better muscle increases with 4.2 gr/kg.

Tarnpolosky trained with natural and sauced athletes and noted that every athlete was gaining at advanced rates from the higher figures than the lower 1.8 or so---Dehydration is the main culprit people must watch out for on high protein diets but anyone who is a bodybuilder who is drinking less than a gallon a day is cheating himself already
Click to expand...
 
I've been following a diet of 28% protein, 12% fat and 60% of carbs and Im feeling VERY pumped, ripped and a feeling of well being. I always switch to low carb diet once in a while and I can tell that low carb diet make me feel lazy, ok I get more cut but somedays I feel like shit! My diet has milk, bread, cottage cheese, fruits, pasta, rice, black beans, all kind of meats, oatmeal and whey. I feel great eating carbs from all the sources! Everytime I start a more balanced diet I wake up much fresher and my morning cardio session on an empty stomach are much better!
 
I agree. 1 gram of protein is all anyone ever needs. Maybe if one were cutting carbs and fats considerabley then I would consider upping it a little more but generally I agree with you sk*.
 
Weird, I was wondering the same thing a while ago.

My last cycle I was on ca. 300g protein (I was at 180lbs dry), low carbs except lifting days (around 30-40g), and moderate fat (60-ish g). Yes, I got cut. No, I didn't put on much muscle.

After Thanksgiving I let myself go with the carbs and would get pizza whenever it suited me. I always made sure to get 150g of protein per day, sometimes around 200, and carbs up the ass. Two months later I'm unhappy with my size because I'm tired of people calling me "big guy" and constantly grabbing my bi's and asking me how much I work out. (The majority of my gym is gay, I'm not - that's the part that bugs me about it :)). I was able to put on huge amounts of muscle as long as the carbs were there... and a minimum protein requirement. I used to think carbs are the devil and that I could gain lbm without but high enough protein, this thread and my past experience are making me think twice.
 
I didn't say "low carbs" I said moderate carbs. I try to get at least 50 grams of protein in at each meal, after I finish that then I eat carbs to satisfy my appetite. Like I said, I'm gaining 2-3 lbs a week (natural too) so how is it that carbs are responsible for my growth and not 2xBW protein?

Daman why were you eating so little on a cycle? I've never been juiced (don't think I ever will) but I eat more than that when i'm trying to diet down...

You said you didn't put on much muscle, but considering you were deficient in every macronutrient that wouldn't surprise me. Try eating like this for awhile and see what happens (kjigga posted a sample of his diet but i eat almost exactly the same way):

8- Bowl of Fiber1, procomplex shake, 2 cups milk and 3 tablespoons of olive oil

1030-1/4lb homeade burger on whole wheat bagel, procomplex shake, 2 cups milk, 1 tablespoon olive oil

1-Lunch...I usually take clients out for lunch so I order a salad, jumbo shrimp appetizer and fat ass t-bone steak, maybe a baked potato (I let the clients gawk aty me polish this off with ease)

330-1/3lb chicken, 1 cup wild rice, 2 cups milk, 1tablespoon olive oil (sometimes I just eat 2 doubleburgers)

6- Either my post workout shake (110gr carb/85 gr protien) OR 1/3lb london broil over salad

8-12oz Eye round steak, some sauteed onions and zuchinni

10- 12oz salmon filet

1130-Procomplex shake

-----

That's mega hi protein, a good amount of fat, and not really that many carbs. I'm making incredible gains, and so is everyone I've seen on DC's program. You guys should visit the thread in the training section.
 
So, how much Protein would you recommend for someone dieting to lose bodyfat and retain muscle? 1 gram per pound of bodyweight? Lower? Or higher? Remember, someone NATURAL...
 
Doggcrapp:: ok the jail analogy where people are saying look at the prisons and what the guys eat and alot of them are big. Who the heck are in the jails? Not trying to be racist here but there are alot of black guys in jail with outstanding genetics. Hell I know of five black guys who never lift and are bigger and more muscular than 4/5 of the people in my gym! I could go to Camp Pendleton here in San Diego and show you an absurb amount of huge black guys from the south who have 18 plus inch arms and weigh 225plus and alot of them dont lift also. Put anyone in jail and have them lift and then rest all day without the outside stresses that you reading this go thru and those prisoners will get as big as their genetics (and food limits) allow. Just imagine if they had access to proper food requirements! So unless your walking around with Dillett like genetics like alot of prison people are---this is a moot point.

As far as the Nassir El Sonbaty interview, Nasser lives here in San Diego where I reside also. Nasser eats like crap now-no doubt about it. Two to three meals a day. Do you see Nassir getting any bigger in the last 7 years or so? He is the same size he was in 96! Do you see his placings getting higher? Guess what Nassir used to eat like when he was gaining all his size? (high protein)

Ive rehashed this time and time again in multiple posts and articles (some of which debaser posted above)---If i wanted to build a 200lb bodybuilder and he wanted to go nowhere past that level I would use 250grams of protein. But i build monsters and 300lb superheavyweights and people with extreme muscle size (4.0 LBS of muscle per inch of height) dont get made quickly (if at all) on 200grams of protein a day.
 
DOGGCRAPP said:
Doggcrapp:: ok the jail analogy where people are saying look at the prisons and what the guys eat and alot of them are big. Who the heck are in the jails? Not trying to be racist here but there are alot of black guys in jail with outstanding genetics. Hell I know of five black guys who never lift and are bigger and more muscular than 4/5 of the people in my gym! I could go to Camp Pendleton here in San Diego and show you an absurb amount of huge black guys from the south who have 18 plus inch arms and weigh 225plus and alot of them dont lift also. Put anyone in jail and have them lift and then rest all day without the outside stresses that you reading this go thru and those prisoners will get as big as their genetics (and food limits) allow. Just imagine if they had access to proper food requirements! So unless your walking around with Dillett like genetics like alot of prison people are---this is a moot point.

As far as the Nassir El Sonbaty interview, Nasser lives here in San Diego where I reside also. Nasser eats like crap now-no doubt about it. Two to three meals a day. Do you see Nassir getting any bigger in the last 7 years or so? He is the same size he was in 96! Do you see his placings getting higher? Guess what Nassir used to eat like when he was gaining all his size? (high protein)

Ive rehashed this time and time again in multiple posts and articles (some of which debaser posted above)---If i wanted to build a 200lb bodybuilder and he wanted to go nowhere past that level I would use 250grams of protein. But i build monsters and 300lb superheavyweights and people with extreme muscle size (4.0 LBS of muscle per inch of height) dont get made quickly (if at all) on 200grams of protein a day.
Click to expand...

Much respect to you DC, and I am currently on your workout and love it so far, but I started this thread as my experience. I always took a good amount of protein and when I read your thread on animal's board I even increased it to 500g/day and the gains weren't any different. I've been gain same as usual, weather my protein was 500g or 200g. Hey, maybe I am different, maybe I am a genetic freak (lol I wish), but I know that an increase in protein didn't add anything spectacular to me.

-sk
 
sk* said:


Much respect to you DC, and I am currently on your workout and love it so far, but I started this thread as my experience. I always took a good amount of protein and when I read your thread on animal's board I even increased it to 500g/day and the gains weren't any different. I've been gain same as usual, weather my protein was 500g or 200g. Hey, maybe I am different, maybe I am a genetic freak (lol I wish), but I know that an increase in protein didn't add anything spectacular to me.

-sk
Click to expand...

I'm the same way, on my third cycle I bumped my protein intake considerably...didn't gain a pound. Seems like carbs is the key for me.
 
You guys may know lots of guys who take in tons of protein but i know very few. Most of the guys i know eat very little protein, and they dont eat often either. 3 or 4 times a day at most. I think consuming adequate protein i very, very important and i think 1 gram per pound of bodyweight is not enough. I think one should eat 1.5 grams at least, and maybe more while juicing. Dont take chances guys eat enough protein.-WULF
 
two eggs, 15g
tuna 15g
chicken 10g
tuna 15g
shake 40g
other meals maybe 20g...

thats my intake and im eating all the time.. what the hell do you guys eat to reach 200?? any suggestions??
 
I agree totally with Doggcrap, i was eating moderate protein about a year ago, and fairly high carbs(bulking). I was getting a little too high in the bf department and made a concious effort to up my protein to 1.5g per pound of bodyweight. My strength went up, i looked much harder, and i gained weight(lost some bf) and this was without juice. I am convinced of the importance of protein, its what muscles are made of!-WULF
 
ManOfArms said:
two eggs, 15g
tuna 15g
chicken 10g
tuna 15g
shake 40g
other meals maybe 20g...

thats my intake and im eating all the time.. what the hell do you guys eat to reach 200?? any suggestions??
Click to expand...

What kind of chickend and tuna you eating?
Most cans of tuna are around 25 grams of protein.
3. oz of chicken is 24 grams of protein, and 3 oz. isn't much at all.
 
A number of points to consider:
1. The research done into proetin consumption is usually done on either people with AIDS, or people who are middle aged, with a very sedentary lifestyle, NOT power lifters bodybuilders etc.

2. The main use for protein in the human body is to repair cells, no other food source can achieve this. This is why protein is important in our diets.

3. There are two reasons for a high protein diet: To reduce the chance of becoming fat, and to increase IGF-1 production, the most anabolic hormone in the body.

4. High protein diets should be relevant to weight, as you get bigger you need alot more protein to repair everyday.

5. Eating 3kilos of Tuna a day and saying Ive had 800g protein is absolute bullshit. Protein should be eaten in 'complete' sources. Its no good having half of the amino acids needed.


I'd say at 150lbs only 150-200 grams a day to grow easily, but anything over 250-300lbs you need serious amounts, 3,4,500g a day.
Bro
 
it gets converted to glucose people anything over one gram per pound

hell my dad has probably more experience then most on this board he is 60 and he used to take 400-500 grams of protien a day and he says its not any better than taking 150

ive tried it myself in the past...you cant just force your bodyto utilize more protien

all it is is excessive calories
 
Ok guys, answer PROTOTYPE 2000'S question about dieting and losing bodyfat while natural. Is 1 gram of Protein enough to hold on to muscle? I believe it's enough. What do you think??
 
NClifter I love how you ignore the studies that were presented over and over again even though DC specifically replied to your post. Here is the post again that you completely ignored:


nclifter6feet6 said:
it gets converted to glucose people anything over one gram per pound

hell my dad has probably more experience then most on this board he is 60 and he used to take 400-500 grams of protien a day and he says its not any better than taking 150

ive tried it myself in the past...you cant just force your bodyto utilize more protien

all it is is excessive calories
Click to expand...


NClifter::yes they may have better gains with 500 grams of protien as apposed to 200 for the fact it is JUST MORE CALORIES.

Doggcrapp:: more calories? thats it? well hell why dont I make everyone I train awesome bodybuilders by taking in 200 grams of protein and downing bacon lard and 4 cups of olive oil a day. According to you thats all they would need to be bigger and stronger.

Nclifter::the FACT remains protien converts to glucose at a range of .9 --1.0 or so of grams per pound of lean body mass.

Doggcrapp:: please show me this magical study that you came across ok and I want to see it under brutally heavy training conditions, with time vs assimilation, pre and post training assimilation and I sure as hell want to see it done on incredibly hard training, heavy weight training bodybuilders and not cyclists, power walkers or worse yet the regular layperson. I already gave you 3 studies involving hard training weight lifters and for some reason you look right over them. It seems you are arguing this point because YOU are comfortable in taking in 200 grams of protien and noone wants to think what they are doing--might not be the most productive.

NClifter::your clients have gotten stronger because that is more calories

Doggcrapp:: do you truly believe calories make a person stronger? the people I train eat the same amount of calories everyone else does, they just eat more protien and less carbs. Excess calories that aren't used makes a person fat not stronger! I cannot believe you truly believe that statement.

Nclifter:ro bodybuilders like nasser and others REQUIRE MORE protien because they are on DRUGS which increase there protien synthesis. so for someone on juice this is a great idea

Doggcrapp:: then you better tell all the natural guys I train and all the elite heavyweight Natural bodybuilders out there like Skip Lacour etc that all they have to do is take in 200 grams of protien a day to become great bodybuilders (Believe me they will walk away mid sentence)

Nclifter::i know no one will listen to me because im not anywhere your size. . i dont care. but im stating a fact.

Doggcrapp:: size has nothing to do with your opinion or my opinion. Your stating facts as it pertains to what you like to do only. I showed three studies that you can look up yourself if you want. Ive been around the block enough times to know that the greatest and only anabolic a natural bodybuilder can use is protein in twice bodyweight amounts.

nclifter::yes johnny bodybuilder taking in 500 grams of protien and 600 carbs will be bigger than mikey tuffguy that takes in 200 grams of protien and 600 carbs because its just more calories

Doggcrapp:: you have my ratios way off---try high protein and lower carbs which comes out to the exact same calories if not slightly more calories than most other bodybuilders out there that are eating alot of carbs. If you think you can take a natural 170lb guy and make him a natural 250lb guy with 200 grams of protein and 3200 calories a day your badly mistaken. You keep stating calories calories--yet alot of the guys I train i keep lean by haveing them do treadmill work 3-5 times a week (along with that 400 plus grams of protein a day). Do you think the human body wants to be 3.5lbs to 4.0lbs of muscle? Hell no!!! Its always trying to reach a point of homeostasis. The only way you can make yourself a person of extreme muscle mass is by going to extremes with heavy training (demand), extreme protein intake(supply) and other factors.

NCLIfter::you just cant write out a diet regimen that works for a pro bodybuilders and the like who juice up. and expect the same results for a natural lifter without drugs to eat the same way and be able to utilize tons and tons of protien like a juicer does

Doggcrapp:: and you cant tell everyone that you have facts when its really something "you feel like doing" eating 200 grams of protein a day.
---eating 400 plus grams of protien is a chore and not easy to do. Your "facts" are going against everything science is telling us about heavy training weight athletes and what our elite heavyweight natural bodybuilders and powerlifters have been doing for years. Im training a slew of successfull natural bodybuilders presently and I'll stick with whats working. All you have to do is look around every gym in America at people eating in that comfort zone (150-250grams of protein) and seeing that they look the exact same year after year after year after year.
 
baza

What kind of chickend and tuna you eating?
Most cans of tuna are around 25 grams of protein.
3. oz of chicken is 24 grams of protein, and 3 oz. isn't much at all.




Albacore white tuna, in spring water.. but must be a smaller can, its labeled at 15g protien. As for the chicken, I eat a lot more then 3oz per day. I take two chicken breast in the afternoon and two more for my last meal. Perhaps my calculations were incorrect.
thanks for the info.
 
a can of albacore has more than 15 g of protein, even the small cans. are you sure you're not reading amount per serving, as there are usually 2.5 servings in a can.
 
I have tried the high protein (400g or 2g/lb/day) diet and have not found my gains to be any greater than on half of that or about 200g/day. I have done this for periods of roughly 2 months which is about as long as I can stand it. For me, it’s a hassle and a waste of money. Since doubling my protein didn't provide any apparent benefit, I'm not going to do it. Besides, if an average person needs roughly 0.5g/lb/day then doubling that seems more than sufficient to me. When something is uncertain my approach is moderation and reasonableness. I'm glad to see in this thread that some others agree.

Some people may benefit from mega-protein but I don't. Perhaps it's because I don't try to get as big as possible but to maintain a lean 200lb body that is agile and can run, ski, backpack, etc. To me, bodybuilding is about my ideal of peak fitness and optimum muscularity not volume of muscularity.

Anyway, I’m definitely into efficiency and MS's idea of protein cycling sounds interesting. I’ll try something like Mon-Th of 200g/day and Fri-Sun of 100g/day, more or less. Thanks for the idea MS.
 
Many people claim they started gaining when they upped on the protein intake. I think this was with the fact that the protein increases total calorieintake that day = more weight gained.

I eat a lot of protein, not because I think I will gain more muscle, but I just love meat, chicken and fish. I love big steaks and can eat 3-4 chickenbreasts per meal just because I love them. I also feel I can eat more protein and still not gain fat.

I don't thik there is a "number" per lb that will make one grow more or less mass. It all depends on when you eat you protein, what kind of protein, and may other factors. If one eat every third hour I think people can eat 30-50g protein and the body will use it all. If you are awake and very active during the day, the protein per day number might go up to + 2g per lb.
 
Debaser said:
NClifter I love how you ignore the studies that were presented over and over again even though DC specifically replied to your post. Here is the post again that you completely ignored:





NClifter::yes they may have better gains with 500 grams of protien as apposed to 200 for the fact it is JUST MORE CALORIES.

Doggcrapp:: more calories? thats it? well hell why dont I make everyone I train awesome bodybuilders by taking in 200 grams of protein and downing bacon lard and 4 cups of olive oil a day. According to you thats all they would need to be bigger and stronger.

Nclifter::the FACT remains protien converts to glucose at a range of .9 --1.0 or so of grams per pound of lean body mass.

Doggcrapp:: please show me this magical study that you came across ok and I want to see it under brutally heavy training conditions, with time vs assimilation, pre and post training assimilation and I sure as hell want to see it done on incredibly hard training, heavy weight training bodybuilders and not cyclists, power walkers or worse yet the regular layperson. I already gave you 3 studies involving hard training weight lifters and for some reason you look right over them. It seems you are arguing this point because YOU are comfortable in taking in 200 grams of protien and noone wants to think what they are doing--might not be the most productive.

NClifter::your clients have gotten stronger because that is more calories

Doggcrapp:: do you truly believe calories make a person stronger? the people I train eat the same amount of calories everyone else does, they just eat more protien and less carbs. Excess calories that aren't used makes a person fat not stronger! I cannot believe you truly believe that statement.

Nclifter:ro bodybuilders like nasser and others REQUIRE MORE protien because they are on DRUGS which increase there protien synthesis. so for someone on juice this is a great idea

Doggcrapp:: then you better tell all the natural guys I train and all the elite heavyweight Natural bodybuilders out there like Skip Lacour etc that all they have to do is take in 200 grams of protien a day to become great bodybuilders (Believe me they will walk away mid sentence)

Nclifter::i know no one will listen to me because im not anywhere your size. . i dont care. but im stating a fact.

Doggcrapp:: size has nothing to do with your opinion or my opinion. Your stating facts as it pertains to what you like to do only. I showed three studies that you can look up yourself if you want. Ive been around the block enough times to know that the greatest and only anabolic a natural bodybuilder can use is protein in twice bodyweight amounts.

nclifter::yes johnny bodybuilder taking in 500 grams of protien and 600 carbs will be bigger than mikey tuffguy that takes in 200 grams of protien and 600 carbs because its just more calories

Doggcrapp:: you have my ratios way off---try high protein and lower carbs which comes out to the exact same calories if not slightly more calories than most other bodybuilders out there that are eating alot of carbs. If you think you can take a natural 170lb guy and make him a natural 250lb guy with 200 grams of protein and 3200 calories a day your badly mistaken. You keep stating calories calories--yet alot of the guys I train i keep lean by haveing them do treadmill work 3-5 times a week (along with that 400 plus grams of protein a day). Do you think the human body wants to be 3.5lbs to 4.0lbs of muscle? Hell no!!! Its always trying to reach a point of homeostasis. The only way you can make yourself a person of extreme muscle mass is by going to extremes with heavy training (demand), extreme protein intake(supply) and other factors.

NCLIfter::you just cant write out a diet regimen that works for a pro bodybuilders and the like who juice up. and expect the same results for a natural lifter without drugs to eat the same way and be able to utilize tons and tons of protien like a juicer does

Doggcrapp:: and you cant tell everyone that you have facts when its really something "you feel like doing" eating 200 grams of protein a day.
---eating 400 plus grams of protien is a chore and not easy to do. Your "facts" are going against everything science is telling us about heavy training weight athletes and what our elite heavyweight natural bodybuilders and powerlifters have been doing for years. Im training a slew of successfull natural bodybuilders presently and I'll stick with whats working. All you have to do is look around every gym in America at people eating in that comfort zone (150-250grams of protein) and seeing that they look the exact same year after year after year after year.
Click to expand...


yes but there are more studies that contradict his.......anyways i dont buy into alot of the studies, alot are biased and are not carried out well

why dont you try it for yourself sinse you think doggcrapp is some diet expert

go ahead eat 400 grams, you will find that it is just a waste
 
To be honest i feel both sides of the argument are being presented well. On one hand some people who have tried it says it did nothing others say it works wonders. I plan on trying 500 soon i do know is i spoken to someone on animals board who bumped up his protein from 300 to 500 and he gained 20 pounds in a month and he was natural . then over the course of 6 months he gained anopther 20 clean and he was on eca during this time. BUT for every guy who gains great some will gain none but thats not just for protein i mean there are people whp juice in the grams and still are 170 pounds.

One thing i do agree with is that in this case studys mean nothing as there are studies showing athletes who use super protein amoutns gaining great others showing minimal protein with good gains. Also studies in every fireld are easily manipulated i mean there are studies out there that say Steroids kill and will turn your children into transvestite cows so studies cant really apply in this case. One thiong i do know is DC is a big big boy who uses miniscule amounts of juice compared to allot of people on this board . he also got to 240 naturally which is allot bigge rthen allot of peiople juice or not . so this argument will never be truly solved as it is a case by cvase basis
 
nclifter6feet6 said:




why dont you try it for yourself sinse you think doggcrapp is some diet expert

go ahead eat 400 grams, you will find that it is just a waste
Click to expand...

You must be right, it's a waste. That's why I'm gaining 2-3 lbs a week naturally.

And, I'm not sure what qualifies someone as an "expert," but who do you think a trainee would trust:

a. nclifter's opinions (BTW he has yet to produce the study that dc asked for)

b. doggcrapp, who has put 50+ lbs on several people, many who thought they couldn't gain anymore.
 
Debaser said:


You must be right, it's a waste. That's why I'm gaining 2-3 lbs a week naturally.

And, I'm not sure what qualifies someone as an "expert," but who do you think a trainee would trust:

a. nclifter's opinions (BTW he has yet to produce the study that dc asked for)

b. doggcrapp, who has put 50+ lbs on several people, many who thought they couldn't gain anymore.
Click to expand...


Well i stated before i have read peopel who it has worked wonders on and people who dont respond to it. Nobody can stake a universal claim to this because its a case by case basis.If he did eat the 500 gramd and it did do nothing for him then thats what happened to him and his opinion is just as valid as yours or other peoples. this is a dumb thing to argue because its a person to person basis no 2 people are the same , hey debasher id be extatic if i were you.
 
My .02:


I train with 5 or 6 other powerlifters. None of them know jack shit about diet. Two bench over 500, one deadlifts just under 800, and 2 squat over 700. They all have 3 things in common:

1. They juice

2. They train HEAVY

3. They eat A LOT (I've seen them eat, it's unreal. But they only eat 3-4 times a day, and they don't count grams of anything. They just eat until they're full)

Draw your own conclusions.
 
notpuff said:
To be honest i feel both sides of the argument are being presented well. On one hand some people who have tried it says it did nothing others say it works wonders. I plan on trying 500 soon i do know is i spoken to someone on animals board who bumped up his protein from 300 to 500 and he gained 20 pounds in a month and he was natural . then over the course of 6 months he gained anopther 20 clean and he was on eca during this time. BUT for every guy who gains great some will gain none but thats not just for protein i mean there are people whp juice in the grams and still are 170 pounds.

One thing i do agree with is that in this case studys mean nothing as there are studies showing athletes who use super protein amoutns gaining great others showing minimal protein with good gains. Also studies in every fireld are easily manipulated i mean there are studies out there that say Steroids kill and will turn your children into transvestite cows so studies cant really apply in this case. One thiong i do know is DC is a big big boy who uses miniscule amounts of juice compared to allot of people on this board . he also got to 240 naturally which is allot bigge rthen allot of peiople juice or not . so this argument will never be truly solved as it is a case by cvase basis
Click to expand...


Well said Notpuff.....well said ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

RoidRage69
Approved Log RoidRage69 Training Log with Purity Source Labs (PSL)
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Replies
728
Views
55K
the_alcatraz
the_alcatraz
Macedog24
PSL Sale Metabolic enhancers now 50% off
Replies
37
Views
3K
Macedog24
Macedog24
Macedog24
PSL Sale Psl has the power, so can you now at 50% off
Replies
37
Views
3K
Macedog24
Macedog24
t4r4tr
Approved Log First 6 months TRT log
Replies
66
Views
7K
MUSTANG_18
MUSTANG_18
T-RexAlpha
  • Locked
T-RexAlpha Cycle/TRT Log
Replies
3
Views
918
the_alcatraz
the_alcatraz
Top Bottom