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stop spreading this crap about gyno!

G

Güclü_oglan

New member
Hello folks,

During the last time around here i keep seing this more and more, it's just a stupid myth that's just growing bigger and bigger. I see people all the time who has never even had gyno telling other bros to quit the nolva and then names different exotic shit that won't make a difference at all.

one thing many bros should learn is:

ARIMIDEX DOES NOT CLEAN YOUR SYSTEM FROM ESTROGEN AND MAKE IT DISAPPEAR, IT JUST REDUCES THE CONVERSION FROM TESTOSTERONE INTO ESTROGEN A LITTLE BIT!

Yuhumburn and other fatburning stuff won't solve the problem either, because you would have to get your bodyfat% down to fatal levels just to get rid of the fat in the tissue around your nipples.

also remember that: GYNOCOMASTIA WILL NEVER OCCUR WITHOUT ESTROGEN PRESENT. So telling someone to quit nolva and start using different expensive useless crap is plainly stupid

take care, nolva for gynocomastia (gland-enlargement) could be at 100mg first day and 60mg ed until it subsides, using bigger doses of arimidex during a cycle is like begging for problems with estrogen post-cycle
 
Wow. Obviously nothing shuts down estrogen suppression completely and estrogen must be present to get gyno (both of these statements are extremely obvious). What is wrong with using something more effective? Why are you saying it's more expensive, heard of research grade liquids? I personally will use l-dex in the place of nolva everytime because I don't like the bloat. It's not like we all have agendas by pushing a certain anti-e over another, it's called preference. I will receive no financial gain by recommending one over the other, but I will reccomend what I think is more effective.
 
silverbackn said:
Wow. Obviously nothing shuts down estrogen suppression completely and estrogen must be present to get gyno (both of these statements are extremely obvious). What is wrong with using something more effective? Why are you saying it's more expensive, heard of research grade liquids? I personally will use l-dex in the place of nolva everytime because I don't like the bloat. It's not like we all have agendas by pushing a certain anti-e over another, it's called preference. I will receive no financial gain by recommending one over the other, but I will reccomend what I think is more effective.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think that nolva + an anti-aromatase is the best way to combat gyno.
 
ryan04 said:
Good post, I didn't know arimadex doesn't fight gyno as much as nolva.
Click to expand...
You didn't know it because it isn't true, nolva doesn't fight gyno more than a-dex. They work differently. Using both is obviously very effective, that said, in my experiences a-dex is stronger.
 
ryan04 said:
Good post, I didn't know arimadex doesn't fight gyno as much as nolva.
Click to expand...


arimidex, letro are aromitise-inhibitors. they lower estrogen and estrogen related bloat.

nolva does very little if anything to bloat. nolva block estrogen from forming is speciafic site, inpaticular breast

two different animals here
 
Güclü_oglan said:
Hello folks,


one thing many bros should learn is:

ARIMIDEX DOES NOT CLEAN YOUR SYSTEM FROM ESTROGEN AND MAKE IT DISAPPEAR, IT JUST REDUCES THE CONVERSION FROM TESTOSTERONE INTO ESTROGEN A LITTLE BIT!
Click to expand...


Actually this isnt completley accurate info :o

Arimidex WILL stop a LARGE percentage of estrogen from EVER being converted (via excessive testosterone aromatizing...)

But once large amounts of estrogen are ALREADY present then Arimidex is NOT very effective for fighting ALREADY EXISTING high levels of E, while at that point Nolvadex IS GOOD to use for already high circulating estrogen levels...


Point is: Arimidex is better to use BEFORE you get any Gyno symptoms (prevention), while Nolva is better to use once the syptoms start to appear (from the lack of controlling them...:o)
 
Güclü_oglan said:
Hello folks,

During the last time around here i keep seing this more and more, it's just a stupid myth that's just growing bigger and bigger. I see people all the time who has never even had gyno telling other bros to quit the nolva and then names different exotic shit that won't make a difference at all.

one thing many bros should learn is:

ARIMIDEX DOES NOT CLEAN YOUR SYSTEM FROM ESTROGEN AND MAKE IT DISAPPEAR, IT JUST REDUCES THE CONVERSION FROM TESTOSTERONE INTO ESTROGEN A LITTLE BIT!

Yuhumburn and other fatburning stuff won't solve the problem either, because you would have to get your bodyfat% down to fatal levels just to get rid of the fat in the tissue around your nipples.

also remember that: GYNOCOMASTIA WILL NEVER OCCUR WITHOUT ESTROGEN PRESENT. So telling someone to quit nolva and start using different expensive useless crap is plainly stupid

take care, nolva for gynocomastia (gland-enlargement) could be at 100mg first day and 60mg ed until it subsides, using bigger doses of arimidex during a cycle is like begging for problems with estrogen post-cycle
Click to expand...

what about prolactin huh?
 
The Terminator said:
Actually this isnt completley accurate info :o

Arimidex WILL stop a LARGE percentage of estrogen from EVER being converted (via excessive testosterone aromatizing...)

But once large amounts of estrogen are ALREADY present then Arimidex is NOT very effective for fighting ALREADY EXISTING high levels of E, while at that point Nolvadex IS GOOD to use for already high circulating estrogen levels...


Point is: Arimidex is better to use BEFORE you get any Gyno symptoms (prevention), while Nolva is better to use once the syptoms start to appear (from the lack of controlling them...:o)
Click to expand...
Term is on the money here.
 
Yea, they both have their place in the AAS world otherwise they wouldn't see such widespread use. As posters in this thread have noted before, you need to do the research. What are you cycling, what conditions are you trying to combat, what is your own personal experience, etc.
 
On my first cycle I started to get gyno, used nolva at 40mg/ed until the end of the cycle. All the gyno went away and was never to return until semi-high dose test was introduced!
 
The Terminator said:
Actually this isnt completley accurate info :o

Arimidex WILL stop a LARGE percentage of estrogen from EVER being converted (via excessive testosterone aromatizing...)

But once large amounts of estrogen are ALREADY present then Arimidex is NOT very effective for fighting ALREADY EXISTING high levels of E, while at that point Nolvadex IS GOOD to use for already high circulating estrogen levels...


Point is: Arimidex is better to use BEFORE you get any Gyno symptoms (prevention), while Nolva is better to use once the syptoms start to appear (from the lack of controlling them...:o)
Click to expand...

I was gonna chime in here, but looks like Termie has this one in the bag.......amen brother!
 
and arimidex stops more than just a small percentage of estrogen production, its designed for breast cancer patients, who need their estrogen levels as low as possible as to need feed the cancer.
That being said, I still prefer nolva
 
LOL Mr. X is always there to plug AG (NOT knockin you). I've got nothing wrong with it (never used them tho) and theres PLENTY PLENTY PLENTY of hype about how good their products are; I'm anxious about trying a few of their goodies myself. I got my nolv from PNP and it was actually good stuff, cheap too. Either way you want nolva for gyno, period.

Chris

(edit: damnit elite is never gonna let me give needsize karma again, apparently I gave too much?)
 
The Terminator said:
Point is: Arimidex is better to use BEFORE you get any Gyno symptoms (prevention), while Nolva is better to use once the syptoms start to appear (from the lack of controlling them...:o)
Click to expand...


Good Point Term.

I don't know why there is so much confusion over this?

Go look in your box of Tamoxifen, get the consumer insert, read it !

:)
 
The Terminator said:
Actually this isnt completley accurate info :o

Arimidex WILL stop a LARGE percentage of estrogen from EVER being converted (via excessive testosterone aromatizing...)

But once large amounts of estrogen are ALREADY present then Arimidex is NOT very effective for fighting ALREADY EXISTING high levels of E, while at that point Nolvadex IS GOOD to use for already high circulating estrogen levels...


Point is: Arimidex is better to use BEFORE you get any Gyno symptoms (prevention), while Nolva is better to use once the syptoms start to appear (from the lack of controlling them...:o)
Click to expand...
Yep.
 
Nolva is all i've ever needed. I love it.
 
The Terminator said:
Actually this isnt completley accurate info :o

Arimidex WILL stop a LARGE percentage of estrogen from EVER being converted (via excessive testosterone aromatizing...)

But once large amounts of estrogen are ALREADY present then Arimidex is NOT very effective for fighting ALREADY EXISTING high levels of E, while at that point Nolvadex IS GOOD to use for already high circulating estrogen levels...


Point is: Arimidex is better to use BEFORE you get any Gyno symptoms (prevention), while Nolva is better to use once the syptoms start to appear (from the lack of controlling them...:o)
Click to expand...
Perfect reply as always Termi
 
UA_Iron said:
what about prolactin huh?
Click to expand...



It cant for without estrogen present. So , on that account, he is right.


Basically, in a person seriously prone to gyno from deca, but has zero estrogen in their body (which is impossible) will NOT get gyno.
 
Guvna said:
It cant for without estrogen present. So , on that account, he is right.


Basically, in a person seriously prone to gyno from deca, but has zero estrogen in their body (which is impossible) will NOT get gyno.
Click to expand...

which implies an aromatase inhibitor is sufficient for combating deca gyno?

btw deca does aromatize, very slightly though.
 
What terminator said...to the T.

SO ACTUALLY ARIMIDEX IS WAY MORE EFFECTIVE AT SHUTTING DOWN ESTROGEN.
Arminidex PREVENTTS ESTROGEN CONVERSION even 100% of it. VERY VERY POTENT..TOO POTENT IN FACT. Nolva simply blocks estro from attaching....so it is WISE to use Arimidex at the begining if you are sensetive to prevent GYNO.
 
PolfaJelfa said:
What terminator said...to the T.

SO ACTUALLY ARIMIDEX IS WAY MORE EFFECTIVE AT SHUTTING DOWN ESTROGEN.
Arminidex PREVENTTS ESTROGEN CONVERSION even 100% of it. VERY VERY POTENT..TOO POTENT IN FACT. Nolva simply blocks estro from attaching....so it is WISE to use Arimidex at the begining if you are sensetive to prevent GYNO.
Click to expand...


Nolvadex does NOT shut down Estrogen AT ALL...

Think of it this way...
It is like a lock and key combo...

Nolvadex AND Estrogen are both "keys" and the Estrogen Receptor Sites are the "locks"...:)
What happens is when you take Nolva that "key" goes into the "lock" and thus when Estrogen comes along it tries to go into the "lock" but since Nolva is already in there it CANT occupy the same "lock" so it just keeps floating through your system searching for another "lock" to occupy...
But if Nolva has all the locks bound up then Estorgen can NOT open any doors and thus NOT exert any of its nasty side effects :)
 
The Terminator said:
Nolvadex does NOT shut down Estrogen AT ALL...

Think of it this way...
It is like a lock and key combo...

Nolvadex AND Estrogen are both "keys" and the Estrogen Receptor Sites are the "locks"...:)
What happens is when you take Nolva that "key" goes into the "lock" and thus when Estrogen comes along it tries to go into the "lock" but since Nolva is already in there it CANT occupy the same "lock" so it just keeps floating through your system searching for another "lock" to occupy...
But if Nolva has all the locks bound up then Estorgen can NOT open any doors and thus NOT exert any of its nasty side effects :)
Click to expand...

Reminds me of my Biology class with hormones and neurotransmitters. Another good post! This should help the people who haven't quite understood it yet to grasp the concept. Where arimidex comes into play is by not allowing any "keys" to form in the first place. If there are no keys to put in the locks, then there will be no side effects from it.
 
Güclü_oglan said:
one thing many bros should learn is:

ARIMIDEX DOES NOT CLEAN YOUR SYSTEM FROM ESTROGEN AND MAKE IT DISAPPEAR, IT JUST REDUCES THE CONVERSION FROM TESTOSTERONE INTO ESTROGEN A LITTLE BIT!

also remember that: GYNOCOMASTIA WILL NEVER OCCUR WITHOUT ESTROGEN PRESENT. So telling someone to quit nolva and start using different expensive useless crap is plainly stupid
Click to expand...

With all due respect, your statements are misleading and inaccurate in regards to the physiology and factors that that influence gynecomastia.

The hormones that affect growth and differentiation of breast tissue are estrogen, progesterone, prolactin, GH and IGF-1. It is through their respective receptors where estrogen promotes duct growth and progesterone supports aveolar development. Neither estrogen nor progesterone by themselves can sustain breast development without anterior pituitary hormones, GH and IGF-1. Prolactin has a similar relationship like estrogen/progesterone to GH/IGF-1 where it stimulates epithelial cell proliferation and enhances lobulo alveolar differentiation only in the presence of estrogen and progesterone, respectively. Therefore, the most common scenarios for the development of gynecomastia in men may be a result of supraphsyiological levels of estrogen/progesterone, physiological levels of estrogen/progesterone in the presence of decreased androgens or physiological levels of estrogen, progesterone and androgens in the presence of elevated GH/IGF-1.

In addition, Arimidex suppresses estrogen more than just a little bit and is a preventive measure against the development of gynecomastia.

Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.

Mauras N, O'Brien KO, Klein KO, Hayes V.

Nemours Research Programs at the Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, Florida 32207, USA.

We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin-like growth factor I production. It is not clear,,however, whether estrogens have a major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex (Anastrozole). First, a dose-response study of 12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at baseline and after 10 days of oral Arimidex given as two different doses (either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2 concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected for other studies. Subsequently, eight males (aged 15-22 yr; four adults and four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [(13)C]leucine and (42)Ca/(44)Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of Arimidex. Contrary to the effects of T withdrawal, there were no significant changes in body composition (body mass index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) after estrogen suppression or in rates of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors concentrations. However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a 58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both). Serum bone markers, osteocalcin and bone alkaline phosphatase concentrations, and rates of bone calcium deposition and resorption did not change. In conclusion, these data suggest that in the male 1) estrogens do not contribute significantly to the changes in body composition and protein synthesis observed with changing androgen levels; 2) estrogen is a main regulator of the gonadal-pituitary feedback for the gonadotropin axis; and 3) this level of aromatase inhibition does not negatively impact either kinetically measured rates of bone calcium turnover or indirect markers of bone calcium turnover, at least in the short term. Further studies will provide valuable information on whether timed aromatase inhibition can be useful in increasing the height potential of pubertal boys with profound growth retardation without the confounding negative effects of gonadal androgen suppression.

Jenetic
 
Jenetic said:
With all due respect, your statements are misleading and inaccurate in regards to the physiology and factors that that influence gynecomastia.

The hormones that affect growth and differentiation of breast tissue are estrogen, progesterone, prolactin, GH and IGF-1. It is through their respective receptors where estrogen promotes duct growth and progesterone supports aveolar development. Neither estrogen nor progesterone by themselves can sustain breast development without anterior pituitary hormones, GH and IGF-1. Prolactin has a similar relationship like estrogen/progesterone to GH/IGF-1 where it stimulates epithelial cell proliferation and enhances lobulo alveolar differentiation only in the presence of estrogen and progesterone, respectively. Therefore, the most common scenarios for the development of gynecomastia in men may be a result of supraphsyiological levels of estrogen/progesterone, physiological levels of estrogen/progesterone in the presence of decreased androgens or physiological levels of estrogen, progesterone and androgens in the presence of elevated GH/IGF-1.

In addition, Arimidex suppresses estrogen more than just a little bit and is a preventive measure against the development of gynecomastia.

Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.

Mauras N, O'Brien KO, Klein KO, Hayes V.

Nemours Research Programs at the Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, Florida 32207, USA.

We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin-like growth factor I production. It is not clear,,however, whether estrogens have a major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex (Anastrozole). First, a dose-response study of 12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at baseline and after 10 days of oral Arimidex given as two different doses (either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2 concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected for other studies. Subsequently, eight males (aged 15-22 yr; four adults and four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [(13)C]leucine and (42)Ca/(44)Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of Arimidex. Contrary to the effects of T withdrawal, there were no significant changes in body composition (body mass index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) after estrogen suppression or in rates of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors concentrations. However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a 58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both). Serum bone markers, osteocalcin and bone alkaline phosphatase concentrations, and rates of bone calcium deposition and resorption did not change. In conclusion, these data suggest that in the male 1) estrogens do not contribute significantly to the changes in body composition and protein synthesis observed with changing androgen levels; 2) estrogen is a main regulator of the gonadal-pituitary feedback for the gonadotropin axis; and 3) this level of aromatase inhibition does not negatively impact either kinetically measured rates of bone calcium turnover or indirect markers of bone calcium turnover, at least in the short term. Further studies will provide valuable information on whether timed aromatase inhibition can be useful in increasing the height potential of pubertal boys with profound growth retardation without the confounding negative effects of gonadal androgen suppression.

Jenetic
Click to expand...


Awesome post....my head is still spinning trying to process this information in an ordered fashion in my brain. Will this be on the test boss?
 
Jenetic said:
With all due respect, your statements are misleading and inaccurate in regards to the physiology and factors that that influence gynecomastia.

The hormones that affect growth and differentiation of breast tissue are estrogen, progesterone, prolactin, GH and IGF-1. It is through their respective receptors where estrogen promotes duct growth and progesterone supports aveolar development. Neither estrogen nor progesterone by themselves can sustain breast development without anterior pituitary hormones, GH and IGF-1. Prolactin has a similar relationship like estrogen/progesterone to GH/IGF-1 where it stimulates epithelial cell proliferation and enhances lobulo alveolar differentiation only in the presence of estrogen and progesterone, respectively. Therefore, the most common scenarios for the development of gynecomastia in men may be a result of supraphsyiological levels of estrogen/progesterone, physiological levels of estrogen/progesterone in the presence of decreased androgens or physiological levels of estrogen, progesterone and androgens in the presence of elevated GH/IGF-1.

In addition, Arimidex suppresses estrogen more than just a little bit and is a preventive measure against the development of gynecomastia.

Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.

Mauras N, O'Brien KO, Klein KO, Hayes V.

Nemours Research Programs at the Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, Florida 32207, USA.

We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin-like growth factor I production. It is not clear,,however, whether estrogens have a major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex (Anastrozole). First, a dose-response study of 12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at baseline and after 10 days of oral Arimidex given as two different doses (either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2 concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected for other studies. Subsequently, eight males (aged 15-22 yr; four adults and four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [(13)C]leucine and (42)Ca/(44)Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of Arimidex. Contrary to the effects of T withdrawal, there were no significant changes in body composition (body mass index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) after estrogen suppression or in rates of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors concentrations. However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a 58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both). Serum bone markers, osteocalcin and bone alkaline phosphatase concentrations, and rates of bone calcium deposition and resorption did not change. In conclusion, these data suggest that in the male 1) estrogens do not contribute significantly to the changes in body composition and protein synthesis observed with changing androgen levels; 2) estrogen is a main regulator of the gonadal-pituitary feedback for the gonadotropin axis; and 3) this level of aromatase inhibition does not negatively impact either kinetically measured rates of bone calcium turnover or indirect markers of bone calcium turnover, at least in the short term. Further studies will provide valuable information on whether timed aromatase inhibition can be useful in increasing the height potential of pubertal boys with profound growth retardation without the confounding negative effects of gonadal androgen suppression.

Jenetic
Click to expand...

uhh, I agree with Jenetic, AGAIN!
 
PolfaJelfa said:
What terminator said...to the T.

SO ACTUALLY ARIMIDEX IS WAY MORE EFFECTIVE AT SHUTTING DOWN ESTROGEN.
Arminidex PREVENTTS ESTROGEN CONVERSION even 100% of it. VERY VERY POTENT..TOO POTENT IN FACT. Nolva simply blocks estro from attaching....so it is WISE to use Arimidex at the begining if you are sensetive to prevent GYNO.
Click to expand...

It's virtually impossible to hit undectable levels of estrogen.

The majority of estrogen in males is derived from the extraglandular aromatization of testosterone and androstenedione to estradiol and estrone, respectively. The testes secrete 6-10 mg of estradiol and 2.5 mg of estrone per day (15% of estradiol and 5% of estrone). This means that there are still approximately 20% Estrogens detectable, even if armoatase activity was completely stopped.

The CYP19 gene resposible for production of the P450 aromatase is unaffected by aromatase inhibitors, therefore it would not affect the production of the aromatase enzyme. A direct mutation of the CYP19 gene would be necessary for a permanent loss in production to occur.

Jenetic
 
Your genius scares me. If I may ask, how is it that you know all this in-depth information?! I was actually hoping you'd chime in on this thread and shine some light on the situation.

Chris
 
The Terminator said:
Actually this isnt completley accurate info :o

Arimidex WILL stop a LARGE percentage of estrogen from EVER being converted (via excessive testosterone aromatizing...)

But once large amounts of estrogen are ALREADY present then Arimidex is NOT very effective for fighting ALREADY EXISTING high levels of E, while at that point Nolvadex IS GOOD to use for already high circulating estrogen levels...


Point is: Arimidex is better to use BEFORE you get any Gyno symptoms (prevention), while Nolva is better to use once the syptoms start to appear (from the lack of controlling them...:o)
Click to expand...
yep but what happends to your estrogenlevels once you discontinue the arimidex after a heavy test-cycle?
 
Güclü_oglan said:
yep but what happends to your estrogenlevels once you discontinue the arimidex after a heavy test-cycle?
Click to expand...


With the cycle having been discontinued and the corresponding high levels of Testosterone now GONE, then the accompanying high levels of aromatized Estrogen shouldnt be a problem either at that point :).
(if the estrogen problem was from an overabundance of Testosterone aromatizing into Estrogen as the body tries to maintain homeostasis...)
 
yeah right Jenetic... big words do not necessarily equal science


haha, j/k good read
 
all i have to say is this, had puffy itchy nips and a lumps, jenetic told me to use adex cause the nolva wasn't doin it. i love nolva. it cleared it in 10 days. so adex is great sorry don't buy it
 
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