Steroids, bodybuilding, and martial arts

[Cuts]

My first love is bodybuilding... hands down. However, I just recently started kickboxing and I really enjoy it... great cardio workout, good stretching, and of course hitting other people ! I've never tried any of the other martial arts out there (I know there are a lot of them). What do ya'll think is the best discipline to go along with the typical bodybuilder physique? Taw Kwon Doe? Kung-Fu? Thai? Ju-Jitsu? Judo? Any others? I want to continue my martial arts training but would like to do something that will compliment and be complimented by my bodybuilding lifestyle. Thanks.

 

[athlete03]

I've formally studied several kinds of martial arts since I was about nine and the one that's by far the best is freestyle/greco wrestling (check out the UFC's). Boxing is pretty hard core too. Tae Kwon Do, Kung Fu, and all the classics are generally a waste of time because in open, no holds barred competitions they fail miserably.

 

[Eightball-18]

me and my friend were having a conversation about this.....

unless your bruce lee, a normal martial arts person against a person who likes to get in fights, is going to lose.... there is no way martial arts is going to help you...

trust me ive seen lots of fights, and i have seen a few where GOOD martial arts guys try to use there "techniques" and get their ass kicked.


try the good UFC stuff

 

[Justtryingnot2getfat]

I have studied bando (burmese), Isshinryu and Escrima/Arnis/Kali (mostly filipino stick fighting) but by far the best was "modified accelerated wing chun gung fu", a name given because out of respect for Bruce, it was not called what it was "Jeet Kune Do".

For real fighting this is unquestionably the baddest of the bad. You will be very unlikely to get the real thing tho in these large dojo's. Our class was at our teacher's house and altho there were supposed to be a maximum of 12 students in the "school" i never saw more than 6 of us in one class. This guy was one of Bruce's last students and trained with Wong, kimura and herb (Bruce's main studernts) - looked like budda - no joke! - fastest MOFO ever tho. Very hard to get in or stay in his class tho - he was always testing us - go get water, sweep the floor, training till 2am, trying to make us mad, etc. to make sure he wasnt training any meatheads who would kill someone! serious - when u called, if he thought u were black he'd say he was kkk or black panther if the other way around!!!

but never have i been so good! - true Jeet Kune Do's basic philosophy the essence of fighting power which comes from speed and speed is based on relaxation. All forms are a waste of time - you must train your reflexes. We were so fast it was sad!!! we would go into other famous dojo's (wont mention names) to watch black belts spar. soooooo slooooow - it was if we wwere watching the matrix - I never really thought I was that fast till I saw others (was just average in our group)

anyway - my recomend since u probably wont get to get a guy like this - the less forms the better, focus on reflex - akido/hopkido/jiu jitsu/judo is ok and plain wing chun is good if you know to focus on feel not form. wath out most of the jeet kune do schools are not the fullness of the art but are still the best in my opinion for street and yes this includes grapling arts (i wrestled state level in high scool).

 

[freshr1]

Oh oh.. the ever dreaded "best martial art" thread! I did thai boxing (kickboxing with elbows and knees) and submission wrestling (aka pankration) for almost 2 years until I broke my pinkie recently (hurts like a beyotch). I'd recommend any kind of mixed fighting style. Know stand up fighting, but also know how to take someone down.

my $0.02

 

[BigWh1tey]

I'de say the ving tsun / wing chun . Its all the stuff you aren't allowed to use in UFC . Its easy to learn , you can practice by yourself, it works well for multiple attackers (like most barfights turn into).

 

[powerlifterjay]

Well just my 2 cents i trained in brazilian jujitsu even though i only practiced for a couple yrs in that time learned excellent submission holds. I wrestled at a state level, so i had a good base for grappling, and from day one could take any of them down. I thought shit there not all that, i found out and learned later they wanted to be on there back. The class had 5 days a week 2 were done in in the gee, and 3 were done Vale Tudo which is no holds barred. We had and still they have about 5 full time fighters. The best one has won the Florida Title a couple times but for the abuse and very little money he gets it doesnt seem worth it as a sport. Your winnings should at least be more than your Dr bill. And at that level , everyone is grappling, and punching lots. You will get hurt. I got out because i have always lifted weights and as i started to lift more weight in Compition the grappling left my joints to painful and stiff and since Lifting is my true love it was good buy grappling. But i would defintily say find a place that is for one hardcore. And even have a link on to th ewhole fight seen. You dont have to do all that but training with those guys will make you one bad mofo!

 

[Justtryingnot2getfat]

UFC is a fine sport but in a real fight you dont have ANY pads and all things are go. u also dont normaly duke it out, a fight aginst soemone really trained will be over in seconds. being aware is the best defense - the guys i trained with - u would never think anything but only one or two hits or kicks and its over (awsome power and blinding speed) - keep in mind ur not usually squaring off or shaking hands in a real fight - if you sense danger move FAST and use surprise and it should never end uop on the ground. the guys i was with would have killed any one trying to come in - the usaul thing is to take a hit but wrap up for grapplers - uhhh did you ever watch Bruce Lee kick??? only one person will end up on the ground!!!! I must say tho i enjoy grapping as well and Bruce's philiosophy was that each person has a unique style that works for them - find it, use it!!

 

[GNCMAN]

Wrestling/Submission/NHB style, I love it, no wussy tae-queer-do stuff.

 

[Pat Mycroch]

Wrestling, boxing, and track and field for the streets. If you want to fight in NHB you should know everything like bjj, muay thai, etc. Stay as far away from kungfu, karate, tae kwon do, wing chun and all that bs as you possibly can.

 

[bigpun]

my old karate teacher was telling me that wing chun (ving tun) was the most lethal martial art for the street. What kinds of things does it teach you that are banned in the UFC? And why is it good for multiple attackers?

 

[Kookyguy]

I have been studding and teaching martial arts for over 20 yrs and its the fighter NOT the style that will win or lose a fight.
Find a style that you enjoy and if self defense is your primary concern then train in stand fighting as well as grappling.
97% of all street fights go to the ground and the other 3% are over before the losing guy even had a clue he was in the fight.

 

[steveo]

I have studied Jiu Jitsu, Karate and Kick Boxing (with Elbows and Knees), the one you would use in a street fight would be the kickboxing. It trains you to be no holds barred and to attack. Karate is garbage, Jiu jitsu is only good when you are tied up with someone, then you can throw them into some form of joint lock of choke hold. But most fights start out by facing each other apart from one another. I have been doing it for 12 years and kick boxing has never failed me once. You learn not defense but offense.

 

[Hungry1]

the one that's by far the best is freestyle/greco wrestling (check out the UFC's). .

Wrong. Every wrestler in UFC, PRIDE, etc. is crosstrained with submissions. Wrestling alone won't get you anywhere in NHB. That's exactly why 260 pound Dan Severn was submitted by a 175 pound Royce Gracie.

 

[Cuts]

I'de say the ving tsun / wing chun . Its all the stuff you aren't allowed to use in UFC . Its easy to learn , you can practice by yourself, it works well for multiple attackers (like most barfights turn into).

You've got a PM bro.

 

[karson]

dude

brazillian ju jitsu, Im into it, it is great

 

[Cuts]

I have studied Jiu Jitsu, Karate and Kick Boxing (with Elbows and Knees), the one you would use in a street fight would be the kickboxing. It trains you to be no holds barred and to attack. Karate is garbage, Jiu jitsu is only good when you are tied up with someone, then you can throw them into some form of joint lock of choke hold. But most fights start out by facing each other apart from one another. I have been doing it for 12 years and kick boxing has never failed me once. You learn not defense but offense.

But can a bodybuilder be a kickboxer? What I mean is, I'm not even all that big yet, but I still have a hard time stretching and kicking high and doing stuff like that that requires flexibility. I'm trying to improve by stretching some everday, but it's going really SLOWLY... 6 months and I'd say I can stretch 2 inches further. What does Van-Damme do? He has a good physique, is damn flexible, and kicks ass to!

 

[dragonacious]

The best martial art

Basically, there is no "best" martial art. The only type of martial art that would be useful to a bodybuilder would be a freestyle type. That is when you use a vast variety of different techniques and moves from various styles and disceplines. For instance, kick-boxing kicks and kenpo in fighting with kung-fu punching techniques with kali-silat defense postures with copoeira offensive strategies. This is by no means a definite recipe but you get the idea. Do not think in a one dimensional arena, expand your abilities and the rest will follow. To be the best warrior, you must first defeat yourself.

 

[muaythaiguy]

thaibxr

I found, in my experience, that martial arts, or in my case, muay thai boxing and jui-jitsu training are a fun way to get the cardio training you need without hating it. for example i hate running but when your hitting pads and/or sparring, you take your mind of the drudgery of cardio and you focus on pushing yourself harder and making your opponent fall down or take a brief nap. I found that thai boxing/hitting the pads helped to further develop muscles like legs, shoulders, and also improve flexibility which has been proven to increase growth. my 2 cents

 

[Milo]

I'm 5' 10" 230lbs and a GJJ purple (all no Gi). To be honest it doesn't matter what you take. Martial arts are about as useful as juggling. Unless you're a total asshole the chances of you ever using them are very small. If you're really worried take a few lessons with a good wrestler and learn the basics of ground control, sprawling and resisting the take down. Otherwise just take the MA class that's the most fun or has the cutest chicks. I take BJJ because I enjoy it as a sport, I haven't gotten in a fight since I was 16 and I don't intend to. I honestly would advise against taking BJJ. Big guys seldom last for more then a month. You're basically walking into the academy with a big bulls eye on your chest. Every blue in the place will wipe the mat with you. For the first 6 months you'll be tapping to 140lb gloating pricks. Even once you get good enough to beat them they'll insist that it's just because your stronger (strength, size is heavily frowned upon in BJJ) No fun unless you truly love the submission game. I still do it and love it but I had to pay my dues for 3 years. Now they watch their mouths or I take a leg home with me

 

[BigWh1tey]

my old karate teacher was telling me that wing chun (ving tun) was the most lethal martial art for the street. What kinds of things does it teach you that are banned in the UFC? And why is it good for multiple attackers?

Its a straight forward linear attack system , all the hand strikes are practiced with fingers extended to the eyes , or punches to the thoat or chin , it is in western terms a "dirty fighters" art . Its the flowery Gung Fu whittled down to its basic effective elements .

 

[KA-BAR]

I agree with dragonacious. There is no Martial art that dominates over all the rest. (MMA) mixed martial arts is by far the best. Take what works and throw out what dont. I was an excellent wrestler in high school and in the marine corps. Wrestling alone wont do it. Lots of diff combos to play with. What ive seen alot though in (NHB) and in street fights is if you can out strike your opponent on his feet and he cannot take you to the ground he will be in trouble. And fatiuge makes cowards out of us all. be in shape. Just my 2 cent.

 

[Kodesh]

Interesting

Ok, just for a record i did a few years of Judo and i like grappling.

Anyway, i find it somewhat ironic that people tend to judge fighting styles based on NHB. I do agree that in one-on-one situation grappler might have better chances of winning. But since we are talking about "street fights", statements like "BJJ or Classical wrestling is da best" are very stange...to say at least. I don't know about your previous experience guys, but from my perspective most of the street fights involve 3+ people. You cant really go for take down and spend another 30sec looking for armbar or a choke , 'cuz you are very likely to get kicked in the head by somebody else. The end. Not to mention people bite scracth etc on ground.
I do agree that crosstraining is the key tho. But for pure street situation i would favor a good striker with a gun.

In my opinion Boxing is the best stype out there. Why? It is very simple and effective. Given limited number of strikes a good coach would set a good punch for you in 6 months. And its all you need to know. I don't know any other MA style wich will make a decent fighter out of you in such short period of time. Kickboxing is good too, lower kicks are fucking killers, but leg strikes take more time to learn.

Also i would not disrespect Traditional MA styles. Most of them are very commercialised in the united states nowadays and besides the name have nothing in common with real systems. You must also understand that TMA are basically a lifestyle, fighting applications just a small part of 'em.

PS: sorry for english...just study.
PSS: BJJ is very overrated...Sambo kicks ass.

 

[Milo]

There's a very good saying in mixed martial arts- "Everyone has a plan- until they get hit." If you think you're a badass go down to your local BJJ school or MMA Club and you'll find out for sure.

 

[b fold the truth]

There is no best martial art. There is only the best martial artist. A true martial artist will learn and be open to all styles of fighting. Learn from one, learn from another...and don't fight just one way...fight your way.

I am not for sure why everyone feels that they will be able to handle themselves in a real street-fight in a manner which will lead them to winning. When you get into a fight...you never know what is going to happen. All the training in the world is not going to guarantee you victory. Size means very little also...I hate it when I sparr with a 190lb guy who just whipps me to death.

Be happy with who you are, train with all you have, and most of all...there is something to be said for modesty.

B True

 

[Cuts]

I'm 5' 10" 230lbs and a GJJ purple (all no Gi). , I haven't gotten in a fight since I was 16 and I don't intend to.

Hell, at 5'10" 230, I'm not surprised you haven't been in any fights lately ! lol

 

[Justtryingnot2getfat]

i give a hearty second to Kookyguy, its definitely the fighter not the art. most street fights against truly good fighters are over before they begin - if youre good you simply aviod the situation if u can and if not mostly you disable the guy while he is still blustering in order to get on to his friends which are usually waiting.

 

[powerlifterjay]

I agree with Milo. You can easily walk in to a BJJ school and make a challenge. At our school we had others from the shootfighting school in another town come over and challange. Most were just grappling but others were NHB right there on the mats. I did it for a coupl eof yrs, and i dont mean half ass i was in it, and yes you will get tapped out by little guys with big egos, I too am 5'10 and 240 lbs i was smaller then but i had a bulls eye on me, and i will tell ya you will be humbled. So i will say this if your goal is to fight in NHB you Better know submission. Period. But as far as going out clubbin and fightin someone on the street or in a bar, we here where i am from have a name for that too. Its called "Hockey Style". That means your in close and you throw fast, hard , head shots one after the other of course trying to slip as many as you can don tgo bullistic. But just throw till they fall. In fact the last 3 or 4 i have been in was just that. But One time we gott in to it with a bunch of locals at a bar one night , and the place is realy rough. But as all the shit broke out there were 4 of us and 3 were double teamed, and i had 3 then 4 at the end. Its funny cause this guy that came at me first was going to kick me when i was down, i had already been hit with a mug, in th eback of th ehead. As he cam eclose i double legged him, to keep from being kicked. This little redneck knew some fuckin grappling. I was a active BJJ student at the time and his gaurd wasnt strong enough to keep me at bay by himself, but i was having trouble recovering fromothe shot with th emug. Anyway long story short while he was under me i punched on him while his boys were fuckin me up, hittin me in the head and elbowing my
back. Then as i was standing up i was leaned over the guy under me, and he said he'd had enough, but at that time there was a guy on my back just holding my arms, and shirt, so it was hard to throw fast and get iup. Then before i knew it i seen a pair of black cowboy boots coming straight at me , Bam , broke my fuckin nose. The police were rounding up at that point and i got in my truck and let me tell ya i was fuckied up bad. I don tgive a shit what you know or what you take you meet the right person, or a few people , and they get off first or what ever, the odds arent always in your favor, and you can get seriously hurt in a street fighting atmosphere. My wife seen that and it upset her bad. I used to get in a lot of fights back in my early 20's. But now even though i havent had a chance to try it, i would walk away. I don tpu tmy self in those situations any more. Or my wife.

 

[DTown Boxer]

Kickboxing is great, I used to train people in it, and so is boxing but anymore you have to be well rounded in MMA.

No matter what you train in, The key to being a good fighter is actually sparring, you can kick and punch a bag all day long but until you get in a ring and practice with some one throwing punches at you, you will not be that effective out on the street or in the ring,

 

[PhatPat]

Yeah I took some Wing Chun myself for a while, and some fighting Tai Chi. A friend of mine took jujitsu. He was a bad mother fucker. When I studied Wing Chun, my sifu was the first student of one of the first four students of Grandmaster Yip Mon of Wing Chun Kung Fu. Which means that the dude was one of the top four sifus of Wing Chun in the world. He told me that a master of Wing Chun would probably be the most lethal. It takes ten years before you can become a master under his instruction. And I can say and I will laugh at anyone that tells me otherwise, that Bruce Lee was a bad mother fucker but he wasnt that good. He only studied Wing Chun for a year and then started working and he developed his own style. My cousin has studied both and he says that Wing Chun is far superior than Jeet Kun Do. Wing Chun masters are so lethal because of their use of their Chi(internal energy). Although very few people have harnessed the energy, those that have know what I am talking about. Anyone that has developed their chi with a fighting style is unstoppable. It only takes on shot. My sifu knew all the accupressure points, as well as having developed his chi, and was a master at his style. The dude was unstoppable (couldnt be touched). I would recommend Wing Chun, but I would advise you to do some research before you get in, like about the instructor. Also, it is not a bodybuilders martial art. It is for quick light people, if you are too bulky, you will get your ass kicked.

 

[b fold the truth]

Hmmm....did you not see the flames comming? If you think someone is tough...and they dont' fight a lot, atleast in class, and compete against all other competitors...they are not tough...they are just tough in your eyes. Saying that one style is by far better is a farce. There is not one fighter better than another. If this was true...then the boxer would be the most handi-capped fighter in the world...because he only has 2 weapons and fights standing up.

Just gets under my skin to say that a style is better than another...only the fighter is better. There are terrible fighters in every style. Heck...I fought a 76 year old man in a class one time...I was afraid to touch him because he might fall over and die on me. He never touched me either...and I tried to let him often. Does that mean that his style sucked? No...doesn't mean that he sucked either...but he definatley isn't meant to fight a fighter that was my age...or anyone else for that matter.

Sorry for rambling...but this whole comparison of styles is a bunch of crap.

B True

 

[Justtryingnot2getfat]

PhatPat - on the chi thing, uhh.... in our club, one ecercise was hitting/kicking a board attached to a tall steel post, attached in such a way as to be loose 1/4 inch fom the pole. you hit it perfectly flat and left the energy with the board and it would have a nice satisfying smack sound and feel. now one time when Ted Wong came down from No Cal., he happened to (seemingly lightly) kick the board. I felt the ground quivering fro a few seconds AND I WAS 8-10 FEET AWAY! Most arts practice directing energy (at least at a higher level) but few are good at it. btw: JKD is NOT a direvation of wing chun altho there are some similar practice exersises. your cuz did not study with the nucleus group (bruce's actual students) or you would know that JKD practices directed energy (ever hear of a 1 inch punch?) anyway ANYONE from any style who is under thirty five and over 3rd Dan (degree) or a 5+ yr Master or someone over 35 who is 5dan or a 10+ yr master is a big bad MOFO, no matter what. Always keep in mind tho - a 235lb 6'2" master with 5 black belts dont mean much to a 150lb midget with 6 lead bullets (as long as he's at least 15' away and can shoot)

 

[Kiser56]

hey whats up?

hey whats up? back this last semester, i had a trainer and did some boxing. my trainer was telling me how he could get me some good amateur fights and maybe work up to the state golden gloves championship. i would really like to do that, and it also makes u feel like you could kick alot of people's asses lol...
neway, just thought i would throw in my words

 

[athlete03]

Hungry 1, there are counter examples, but in general, ground fighting is what wins NHB competitions. I forget what UFC it was, but check out when Vitor Belfort (who's previous fights had never gone over one minute, including KO'ing Tank Abbot) was KO'd by the pure wrestler Randy Coture for the title, who has 0 boxing experience. M'kay.

 

[randall_flagg]

The best martial artists I've met don't talk about it

 

[Pat Mycroch]

Actually Randy Couture boxed in the military. Belfort gassed in that fight, and that's why he lost.

 

[Hungry1]

Pat, that's exactly what I was going to say. Also, Couture still boxes today on Team Quest. On a side note, Couture was submitted by Enson Inoue(BJJ) who Couture outweighed a good deal. I think wrestling is a great background to have, but wrestling alone won't win fights in NHB.

 

[b fold the truth]

randall_flagg...Amen brother...Amen.

B True

 

[Cuts]

Hungry 1, there are counter examples, but in general, ground fighting is what wins NHB competitions. I forget what UFC it was, but check out when Vitor Belfort (who's previous fights had never gone over one minute, including KO'ing Tank Abbot) was KO'd by the pure wrestler Randy Coture for the title, who has 0 boxing experience. M'kay.

 

[Cuts]

Hungry 1, there are counter examples, but in general, ground fighting is what wins NHB competitions. I forget what UFC it was, but check out when Vitor Belfort (who's previous fights had never gone over one minute, including KO'ing Tank Abbot) was KO'd by the pure wrestler Randy Coture for the title, who has 0 boxing experience. M'kay.

Tank Abbot KO'd!? Anybody know which UFC this was? I gotta see this... Speaking of Tank Abbot, did he have any formal training, or was he just a barroom brawler?

 

[Pat Mycroch]

The UFC where tank lost to Belfort was UFC 13. He didn't get ko'd, it was a ref stoppage. If you really want to see tank getting ko'd, get Ultimate Brazil. He gets the shit knocked out of him by Pedro Rizzo.

 

[Training4life]

Fighting is for the weak. I would recommand all of you taking Tai Chi, and relaxing your souls. Martial Arts was not meant for fighting, it was meant for re-discoverying who you are and why you are here in this wierd world.