Steroids and SCUBA

[bblazer]

I know this seems like an odd question but bear with me.

I am an avid SCUBA diver. I probably do 20 dives/month.

From the research I have done, it appears that one of the things we want to happen when on a cycle is nitrogen retention. Many of the drugs seem to really exaggerate this retention (like primo).

The short version is that in SCUBA nitrogen=bad. If it comes out of solution in your blood too fast, you get the bends. At depths > even 80' it can act like a narcotic and make you prone to doing bad things.

So, am I wrong to be concerned about this? Unfortunately, the guys who do a lot of medical research for SCUBA (DAN) don't have articles on the subject, and I know of no one in the sport I can ask.

Thanks,
B-

 

[ALIN]

I know this seems like an odd question but bear with me.

I am an avid SCUBA diver. I probably do 20 dives/month.

From the research I have done, it appears that one of the things we want to happen when on a cycle is nitrogen retention. Many of the drugs seem to really exaggerate this retention (like primo).

The short version is that in SCUBA nitrogen=bad. If it comes out of solution in your blood too fast, you get the bends. At depths > even 80' it can act like a narcotic and make you prone to doing bad things.

So, am I wrong to be concerned about this? Unfortunately, the guys who do a lot of medical research for SCUBA (DAN) don't have articles on the subject, and I know of no one in the sport I can ask.

Thanks,
B-

I see your reason for concern but unfortunately dont have a clear asnwer for you. I would be interested in hearing opinions about this as well.

 

[rudy76]

I know this seems like an odd question but bear with me.

I am an avid SCUBA diver. I probably do 20 dives/month.

From the research I have done, it appears that one of the things we want to happen when on a cycle is nitrogen retention. Many of the drugs seem to really exaggerate this retention (like primo).

The short version is that in SCUBA nitrogen=bad. If it comes out of solution in your blood too fast, you get the bends. At depths > even 80' it can act like a narcotic and make you prone to doing bad things.

So, am I wrong to be concerned about this? Unfortunately, the guys who do a lot of medical research for SCUBA (DAN) don't have articles on the subject, and I know of no one in the sport I can ask.

Thanks,
B-

I think you're OK. Nitrogen in the blood (the bends) is nitrogen gas. The extra nitrogen that is retained by using aas is a solid form. I thnk it's N2 vs N-

 

[bblazer]

I think you're OK. Nitrogen in the blood (the bends) is nitrogen gas. The extra nitrogen that is retained by using aas is a solid form. I thnk it's N2 vs N-

Do you think the same would apply to nitrogen narcosis?

Do you know of any outside materials that talk about the nitrogen from AAS specifically (google didn't show much that was helpful)?

Thanks,
B-

 

[Para_Shoot]

I think you're OK. Nitrogen in the blood (the bends) is nitrogen gas. The extra nitrogen that is retained by using aas is a solid form. I thnk it's N2 vs N-

Wrong. Nitrogen is Nitrogen, an element. Nitrogen in it's normal state is a gas. It is liquified at -195.8 deg celsius and it is frozen at -210 Celsius. So if you have some Nitrogen in your muscles that is solid, then you have super cold Nitrogen ice chunks in your body.


Actually, I find this original question very interesting, as I am a Scuba diver also. I don't have the answer though.

 

[rudy76]

Wrong. Nitrogen is Nitrogen, an element. Nitrogen in it's normal state is a gas. It is liquified at -195.8 deg celsius and it is frozen at -210 Celsius. So if you have some Nitrogen in your muscles that is solid, then you have super cold Nitrogen ice chunks in your body.


Actually, I find this original question very interesting, as I am a Scuba diver also. I don't have the answer though.

3 years of university chem told me otherwise. N2 is not the same as N- or NO2 (vasodialator). The oxidation / reduction reaction changes the way it acts with other matter. What do you think Nitrogen that you put on your lawn for fertilizer is??? It's solid N2 not frozen solid N- gas, come on man.

 

[GUARDIAN]

play nice guys

 

[perryscoon]

hmmm now this is a new one; a very valid question at that.

 

[bblazer]

Holly chit! I stumped the group!

B-

 

[rudy76]

play nice guys

I'll play nice boss - please don't beat me.

 

[rudy76]

Bblazer - here is some actual proof:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lpt/nitrogen.htm

An exerpt from this file: "Since animals cannot break the N=N triple bond, nitrogen gas cannot, even under pressures associated with recreational diving, be incorporated into normal metabolism."

If you combine the above link with this Nitrogen Metabolism link
http://www.whatislife.com/reader2/Metabolism/pathway/nitrogen.html
it looks like all of us are wrong but your answer is in those two links or to make a long story short -- aas will in no way add to the possibility of getting nitrogen narcosis or the bends.

 

[eddymerckx]

Wrong. Nitrogen is Nitrogen, an element. Nitrogen in it's normal state is a gas. It is liquified at -195.8 deg celsius and it is frozen at -210 Celsius. So if you have some Nitrogen in your muscles that is solid, then you have super cold Nitrogen ice chunks in your body.


Actually, I find this original question very interesting, as I am a Scuba diver also. I don't have the answer though.

i respectfully disagree and agree w/rudy

gear increase the nitrogen levels by increasing the amount of protien in our body. Its not related to the gaseous nitrogen levels. The retention of nitrogen gas is related to the pressure outside our body. Its not related to the use of gear
remember:
p ATA=pO2 + pN2 + p other gases
thus: pN2= fN2 x ATA

 

[rudy76]

i respectfully disagree and agree w/rudy

gear increase the nitrogen levels by increasing the amount of protien in our body. Its not related to the gaseous nitrogen levels. The retention of nitrogen gas is related to the pressure outside our body. Its not related to the use of gear
remember:
p ATA=pO2 + pN2 + p other gases
thus: pN2= fN2 x ATA

Exactly - that's in those link's. Nitrogen gas and metabolic nitrogen are 2 diff things. I should have stated "Nitrogen gas in our bodies will not increase with aas use."

Thanks eddy

 

[eastcoastplayer]

i started a post like this almost two years ago on this forum and received many of the same responses you did. I dove up to 100 feet just coming off cycle, and felt no sides. I admit I cannot reply as informed as Eddy or Rudy, but, I can tell you that if you ascend at the proper rate and stay out of the water between dives as you should, you should have no problems.

 

[eddymerckx]

i started a post like this almost two years ago on this forum and received many of the same responses you did. I dove up to 100 feet just coming off cycle, and felt no sides. I admit I cannot reply as informed as Eddy or Rudy, but, I can tell you that if you ascend at the proper rate and stay out of the water between dives as you should, you should have no problems.

and avoid back-to-back deep dives, dehydration, and spends the few buck for the computer ascent thingy

 

[bblazer]

Bblazer - here is some actual proof:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lpt/nitrogen.htm

An exerpt from this file: "Since animals cannot break the N=N triple bond, nitrogen gas cannot, even under pressures associated with recreational diving, be incorporated into normal metabolism."

If you combine the above link with this Nitrogen Metabolism link
http://www.whatislife.com/reader2/M...y/nitrogen.html
it looks like all of us are wrong but your answer is in those two links or to make a long story short -- aas will in no way add to the possibility of getting nitrogen narcosis or the bends.

That is a really great response!

Thanks!
B-

 

[pappad]

Not really up on all the science but I do have experience. I am a certified dive master and juicer. I have done deep dives on juice and was fine. All I have is my personal experience and in no way am giving medical advice.

Be safe!!

 

[eddymerckx]

Not really up on all the science but I do have experience. I am a certified dive master and juicer. I have done deep dives on juice and was fine. All I have is my personal experience and in no way am giving medical advice.

Be safe!!

i understand the science--but in the real world who knows, so your experience is very valuable and noteworthy k to you

 

[pappad]

Glad to help!!!

 

[GUARDIAN]

I'll play nice boss - please don't beat me.

just trying to make sure nothing got ugly

 

[GUARDIAN]

great info you guys came up with!