Steroids and Heart problems

[Rossatron]

Hi all, new member here!

I'm curious as to your views on steroids effects on the heart, I have a mild mitral valve prolapse (with no regurgatation) I'm 25, 6'5" and 15st8oz at 7.8%BF

I've been lifting seriously for about 4 years and made steady gains in size and strength, I take creatine and glutamine with no ill affects.

My heart does not effect me day to day and I have routine EchoCardioGrams every other year, there has been no change in my heart in the 10 years since I've been having the scans.

Does anyone think it would be a problem for me to use steroids because of my heart? Or maybe certain types of steroid?

If I forgot to post any information that you need just let me know and I'll post it up.

Cheers
Rossatron

 

[DavidMills]

Is it really worth it to find out?

 

[Jenetic]

I'm curious as to your views on steroids effects on the heart

The human heart expresses the androgen receptor and is therefore a target organ for androgens. Cardiomegaly has been reported in the preclinical studies of AAS, and electron microscopy shows disintegration of intercalated discs, mitochondriolysis, myofibrillolysis, and intracellular edema when AAS is given in conjunction with physical training. A study of male athletes found significantly greater cardiovascular risk factors in AAS users than nonusers. Subjects using AAS had a high total cholesterol/HDL ratio, higher low density lipoprotein levels, and lower HDL levels compared with nonusers.

It should also be noted that no clinical study has yet demonstrated a conclusive link between AAS use and fatal cardiovascular events.

Jenetic

 

[SemperFidelis]

Excellent info Jenetic.

 

[DIVISION]

Steroids and Heart problems....no link

A study of male athletes found significantly greater cardiovascular risk factors in AAS users than nonusers. Subjects using AAS had a high total cholesterol/HDL ratio, higher low density lipoprotein levels, and lower HDL levels compared with nonusers. It should also be noted that no clinical study has yet demonstrated a conclusive link between AAS use and fatal cardiovascular events.

Jenetic: you rock my nutz......good to have you around for the clinical data.

Doctors have been trying to make inferences regarding the correlation between AAS use and fatal cardiac events for years......still hasn't been done.

Conjecture and theory are all they have at this point. So long as you keep your lipid profile in check, BP in range, etc.; you should have no long term complications from AAS use.

I said "use", not "abuse".......that pretty much leaves out most IFBB pros...

 

[IronMind-]

Great stuff Jenetics. Later

 

[georgie24]

good stuff jenetic...lately im wondering wtf my edema is coming from (long before gear use)

 

[geoboy]

The human heart expresses the androgen receptor and is therefore a target organ for androgens. Cardiomegaly has been reported in the preclinical studies of AAS, and electron microscopy shows disintegration of intercalated discs, mitochondriolysis, myofibrillolysis, and intracellular edema when AAS is given in conjunction with physical training. A study of male athletes found significantly greater cardiovascular risk factors in AAS users than nonusers. Subjects using AAS had a high total cholesterol/HDL ratio, higher low density lipoprotein levels, and lower HDL levels compared with nonusers.

It should also be noted that no clinical study has yet demonstrated a conclusive link between AAS use and fatal cardiovascular events.

Jenetic

if I recall, the studies you cite were considered design-flawed because they didn't include a training-but-no-AAS control group. neccessary for a complete understanding since it is known that weight training alone has some of the cardiomegaly effects observed in the AAS group.

as to the cholesterol related effects, unfortunately there's no getting around that. its gospel, and probably the long-term damage we do CV-wise far outweighs any transient concerns everyone obsesses on re liver values, MPB, gyno, etc.

 

[Jenetic]

good stuff jenetic...lately im wondering wtf my edema is coming from (long before gear use)

I wouldn't worry about it unless it is causing health complications.

The swelling is the result of the accumulation of excess fluid under the skin in the spaces within the tissues that are outside of the blood vessels. These spaces are known as interstitial spaces or compartments. Most of the body's fluids that are found outside of the cells are normally stored in two spaces which are the blood vessels and the interstitial spaces.

More than likely, your issue related to sodium intake unless you have some preehxisting systemic disease. The body's balance of salt is usually well regulated. A normal person can consume small or large quantities of salt in the diet without concern for developing salt depletion or retention. The intake of salt is determined by dietary patterns and the removal of salt from the body is accomplished by the kidneys. The kidneys have a great capacity to control the amount of salt in the body by changing the amount of salt excreted in the urine. The amount of salt excreted by the kidneys is regulated by hormonal and physical factors that signal whether retention or removal of salt by the kidneys is necessary.

Jenetic

 

[georgie24]

nice posts bro!

 

[KR177]

i wouldnt take the risk

 

[[email protected]]

I am curious about GH use since he has heart problems. I know heavy GH use can cause your internal organs to grow. Wouldn't this lead to a problem for him?

 

[Jenetic]

I am curious about GH use since he has heart problems. I know heavy GH use can cause your internal organs to grow. Wouldn't this lead to a problem for him?

Personally, I am not sure how accurately GH corresponds with cardiomegaly such as pathological ventricular hypertrophy.

In pathological ventricular hypertrophy the ventricular compliance is decreased (the ventricle is stiffer), therefore, ventricular end-diastolic pressure (EDP) is higher at any given end-diastolic volume (EDV). Alternatively, at a given EDP, a less compliant ventricle has a smaller EDV (filling will be impaired). Besides hypertrophy, if ventricular relaxation is impaired (as occurs in some forms of heart failure), the effective ventricular compliance is also reduced (because of residual active tension) and ventricular filling impaired.

if I recall, the studies you cite were considered design-flawed because they didn't include a training-but-no-AAS control group. neccessary for a complete understanding since it is known that weight training alone has some of the cardiomegaly effects observed in the AAS group.

The primary cause of ventricular hypertrophy in those studeis is due to exercise. Androgens alone do not cause that. For example, taking AAS by itself does not induce muscle growth without the stimulus provided by exercise. In addition, studies have also shown that AAS users displayed increased ventricular hypertrophy versus non users. Training volume and intenstiy would more than likely increase with AAS. Therefore, the ventricle would have to adapt to the increased stress.

Ventricular hypertrophy is a normal physiological adaptation to exercise training that enables the ventricle to enhance its pumping capacity due to increased stress. This type of physiologic hypertrophy is reversible and non pathological.

The only way I can see AAS being associated with cardiac problems is primarily due to chronic hypertension (high blood preassure) and it's negative impact on the lipid profile from extended periods of usage which cand lead to coronary artery disease.

Jenetic

 

[rodneyabs]

do not touch steroids with your condition. Bad bad move.

 

[Breeze]

Hi all, new member here!

I'm curious as to your views on steroids effects on the heart, I have a mild mitral valve prolapse (with no regurgatation) I'm 25, 6'5" and 15st8oz at 7.8%BF

I've been lifting seriously for about 4 years and made steady gains in size and strength, I take creatine and glutamine with no ill affects.

My heart does not effect me day to day and I have routine EchoCardioGrams every other year, there has been no change in my heart in the 10 years since I've been having the scans.

Does anyone think it would be a problem for me to use steroids because of my heart? Or maybe certain types of steroid?

If I forgot to post any information that you need just let me know and I'll post it up.

Cheers
Rossatron

Just be careful and see a doc regularly- a good friend of mine just had a massive heart attack and was lucky to live, now he's needing a transplant. He is only 33 and had no warning whatsoever. The docs said he had a bad valve that no one knew he had. He took AS for years and also partied a little too much, but he also ate good and did plenty of cardio. It's quite possible that he could have had the attack anyway, but the AS and the night life probably didn't help. Some guys think that they are invincible- at least you are aware of your problem.

 

[Ulter]

There are so many holes in those studies that they are worthless. Even the few studies that did use a non-AS control used users that took no anti-e's when they cycled so their blood pressure due to excess estrogen bloat was driven much higher than the people on this board. There are no studies done on people who cycle properly. The "athletes heart" effect can happen to any strength athlete with or without AS. Short term flucuations in Lipids have never been shown to have any effect on long term heart health so that's a moot point.

To address rossatron, there are no good and bad forms of AS for your situation. It's all about dosing and proper cycling ancillaries. Many men with your condition are using steroids successfully every day without incident. The few that I know, including a Mod on my board have not had any worsening of their condition from using steroids. But that's them, not you, so keep getting it checked if you decide to use steroids.

 

[Rossatron]

Thanks for the great advice people, lots of helpful information here!

I don't think I'm gonna try gear, I'll stick to eating and lifting.

Cheers again

Rossatron

 

[bigmusclehead]

Thanks for the great advice people, lots of helpful information here!

I don't think I'm gonna try gear, I'll stick to eating and lifting.

Cheers again

Rossatron

hey bro how did you find out you had a prolapse problem?what are the causes,is it genetic ?

 

[Rossatron]

hey bro how did you find out you had a prolapse problem?what are the causes,is it genetic ?

It's genetic yeah, I have a variant of Marfan Syndrome a very mild case though. My dad had a Heart attack in his 50's they examined him, found out he had it and sent me and my brother for scans, and found out we had it. None of us have any other symptoms though (besides the MVP) and you wouldn't know unless we told you.

 

[solidspine]

I have had mitral valve prolapse for over 15 years, and gear has never affect my heart.

 

[ripper2]

while on AAS i got a blood clot resulting in a heart attack that put me in the hospital for 3days. minimal scarring. doc's couldn't figure out what caused the clot and suggested it "must be" from the AAS... i was out of the gym for about 3 wks before i was cleared to go back to the gym for light workouts. my cholesterol was WAY outta wack when i went in from the cycle, so now my doc has me on cholesterol meds, betablockers, blood thinners. sucks b/c now my doc and insurance treat me like i have a debilitating condition when im probably in the top 0.5% of all of his patients of being in the best physical condition. i swear... some of hte other patients in the waiting room are at least 3x my age.

currently on a light cycle of test/var and will be adding tren while having a doc monitor my blood thickness, lipids and liver profiles for signs of any complications. all tests are showing up where they should be. (well within the normal ranges. alhtough HDL is a little low, cholesterol was not what caused my heart attack)

also, there was a study recently that suggested that even with all the drugs we have no adays to control cholesterol that the number of heart problems has not decreased and that cholesterol doesnt's eem to be a good indicator of heart problems

 

[nsashbl01]

My brother had an issue with a valve in his heart, I don't know if it was MVP. He was a recovering addict, but was still using gear. He was in really good shape, and died of a heart attack at 43. The coroner could not belive the shape he was in. The patology report didn't point to any specific cause. Take it for what it's worth. If your going to use, find a doctor you can be honest with and see him often.