Starting TRT now

[hannes joubert]

Hi All. First off, thanks to every one who has participated in helping to get me this far...Way to pay it forward.

As per my other posts, I have rcvd my meds and have front loaded with hCG@250iu for the past two days. Tomorrow (Monday morning) I will pin my first 150mg's of Test E in my quad...(1st time pinning myself, so I would like to see what I am doing ) Next 150 mg's pin will be Thursday afternoon (following the 3.5 day plan) with a single 250iu hCG on Wednesday.

Concerning the diet and training, this is placed on the almanac for the New Year, being the silly season, I would like to firstly rest after a hectic year, and perhaps give my body time to acclimatise to the T that will be floating around...

Diet is worked out already, basic summary is high protein, good fats, moderate carb, with carb tapering and timing, especially around workouts.

Training is summarised as heavy compound movements on Monday and Friday, isolation exercises on Wednesday, with low intensity cardio on these days for warm up, the "odd" days will hopefully see HIIT cardio, if recovery allows.

My goal is to drop body fat to between 10% and 13%, (weight is not my issue, the fat is), improve cardio vascular fitness, get vitality back and perhaps have a good body to boot. At the moment cosmetics is of less importance. I just want to start living again is all.

So, I will continue posting progress from now, through until I start exercising, and will log everything that happens.

Thanks again to all who helped so unselfishly, for your patience and guidance.

God Bless, take care.

Cheers, H

 

[Zyglamail]

My goal is to drop body fat to between 10% and 13%, (weight is not my issue, the fat is), improve cardio vascular fitness, get vitality back and perhaps have a good body to boot. At the moment cosmetics is of less importance. I just want to start living again is all.

It sounds to me like you should alter your training approach to suit your goals. It seems like you are more concerned with cardio fitness and fat loss that appearance. There is nothing wrong with that at all and is actually very common as we get older, carrying around a lot of mass is just too much work and doesnt really do anything for you.

Right now you seem focused on a hypertrophy style workout with HIIT cardio as able based on recovery. These kind of workouts generally put mass as the primary goal with weight loss and even strength coming in after that.

So if you goal is cardio or more specifically VO2max output increases and fat loss I would really suggest switching to something like a crossfit program with a strength bias, yea I know its not well liked around here but in all my years I have not seen anything peel the fat of like crossfit. While not known for building big muscles the standard workouts can build some decent strength and if weighted with a strength bias can actually build very good strength.

 

[caribeman]

Best of luck my friend, keep us updated.

 

[XMAN.]

good luck bro

 

[hannes joubert]

Eish, 1st pin went off without a hitch, did not even need to aspirate more than once... Painless before and after, although did have a bit of a muscle twitch when the needle was going in to the hilt.

@ Zyglamail, thanks for the advice Bro. I guess I am going to have to make a decision, to drop the fat first, and then "bulk" Will definately look in to the crossfit program.

I have not yet felt any difference, but I assume that it is still a bit early to expect results

Cheers, H

 

[XMAN.]

about ur training bro even if u wanna focus on cardio and fat loss exercises and whatever u do never stop lifting weights and do it at least twice a week 60%-80% rep max, u want to preserve ur muscles as much as u can to keep burning the fat u have to keep the growth stimulus in ur muscles and watch out for ur diet that's a real fat loss program it starts from the inside. remember every 1 lbs of muscles burns 35-50 cals a day the more u grow in muscle the more u'll burn fat in the long run.
as for cardio if u don't have any heart issues and ur healthy stick to HIIT for at least 3 times a week for 20-25 min max per session.
your training program could look like that :
3 days per week M - W - F

full body workout , mostly compounds ,1-2 min rest between sets 60-80% rep max ascending it'll take 30 min max, u can occasionally reach the 90% of ur rep max.

then 25 min HIIT on a bike 8 sec sprint 12 sec rest on slow pace, keep the ratio 1:1.5, of course warm up for 2-3 min and cool down for another 2-3 min at the end so the real timing for it will be the 20 min in the middle no need for more.

good luck

 

[hannes joubert]

about ur training bro even if u wanna focus on cardio and fat loss exercises and whatever u do never stop lifting weights and do it at least twice a week 60%-80% rep max, u want to preserve ur muscles as much as u can to keep burning the fat u have to keep the growth stimulus in ur muscles and watch out for ur diet that's a real fat loss program it starts from the inside. remember every 1 lbs of muscles burns 35-50 cals a day the more u grow in muscle the more u'll burn fat in the long run.
as for cardio if u don't have any heart issues and ur healthy stick to HIIT for at least 3 times a week for 20-25 min max per session.
your training program could look like that :
3 days per week M - W - F

full body workout , mostly compounds ,1-2 min rest between sets 60-80% rep max ascending it'll take 30 min max, u can occasionally reach the 90% of ur rep max.

then 25 min HIIT on a bike 8 sec sprint 12 sec rest on slow pace, keep the ratio 1:1.5, of course warm up for 2-3 min and cool down for another 2-3 min at the end so the real timing for it will be the 20 min in the middle no need for more.

good luck

I agree...I want to stick to compounds because they work the whole body. I think I will adjust the method to reps to failure for three sets, reducing weight every time (there is a name for this method I think) This is a great way to get and keep intensity way up there. But, having said that I want to keep the isolations on Wednesday to give the body time to recover.

Trial and error to see what suits me I suppose. Some exercise is better than none as well...

H

 

[XMAN.]

I agree...I want to stick to compounds because they work the whole body. I think I will adjust the method to reps to failure for three sets, reducing weight every time (there is a name for this method I think) This is a great way to get and keep intensity way up there. But, having said that I want to keep the isolations on Wednesday to give the body time to recover.

Trial and error to see what suits me I suppose. Some exercise is better than none as well...

H

it's called strip sets or drop sets , i suggest changing methods rep range rest between sets and even the whole program like one muscle group per day from time to time, don't stick to the same program more than 12 weeks and always take a week or two rest between programs , it's called periodizing , u wanna change the way u hit ur system or u will hit a plateau and the periodic rest between programs is good for cns and joint recovery and it also makes u kind of loose a little bit of ur adaptation to exercising so when u come back is like feeling the old weights like something new and u can benefit from them again cuz eventually u will reach a certain weight u can never pass or add to it this is when u want to regain the benefits of the same old weights. 2 weeks gap won't do u a thing u won't loose any muscles if taking care of diet specially protein intake, u can keep a little cardio meanwhile.

 

[hannes joubert]

Schweet, thanks Xman. Don't get me to excited, I said I wanted to start next year...

 

[Zyglamail]

@ Zyglamail, thanks for the advice Bro. I guess I am going to have to make a decision, to drop the fat first, and then "bulk" Will definately look in to the crossfit program.

Losing fat and gaining mass dont have to be two separate issues. Ive been consistently replacing a lb of fat with a lb of muscle weekly for some time while maintaining a fairly steady bodyweigh. Thats where strength biasing crossfit comes in. Do CF wods prefaced by a couple compound heavy lifts. Give it 6 weeks with a super clean diet and you will be amazed at the results.

 

[hannes joubert]

OK, I have a bit of soreness in the muscle this morning (tenderness started last night) why is this again, should I be concerned??

I know that it is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAyyy to early to expect changes, but there are none yet

@Zyglamail. Thanks again for the advice. Seeing as you have done it before, would it be possible for you to provide an example of a crossfit program that works?

Cheers okes.

H

 

[XMAN.]

OK, I have a bit of soreness in the muscle this morning (tenderness started last night) why is this again, should I be concerned??

I know that it is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAyyy to early to expect changes, but there are none yet

@Zyglamail. Thanks again for the advice. Seeing as you have done it before, would it be possible for you to provide an example of a crossfit program that works?

Cheers okes.

H

nothing to worry about

 

[hannes joubert]

Getting ready to make 2nd pin....

Don't know if it is related, but I had a bit of a dip yesterday afternoon (hCG pin was in the morning)....

 

[XMAN.]

u mean u felt a bit down , maybe because of the estro rise from HCG u know it needs only 2 hours to hit ur system and it raises both test and estro (and that's obvious) anyway everything new to ur life needs time to adapt to it u'll eventually reach stability in few weeks, but remember sometimes external factors affect ur mood and that's can be confusing

 

[hannes joubert]

u mean u felt a bit down , maybe because of the estro rise from HCG u know it needs only 2 hours to hit ur system and it raises both test and estro (and that's obvious) anyway everything new to ur life needs time to adapt to it u'll eventually reach stability in few weeks, but remember sometimes external factors affect ur mood and that's can be confusing

Hi All.

Jip, I think the hCG may be the culprit, pinned the hCG this morning, had a dip again this afternoon. Will pin Test E for the 3rd time tomorrow morning. Have been fluish, am assuming that it is the Test? Will these symptoms go away at all? I assume that I should be patient and wait for hormone levels to stabilise?

One other thing, it's as if my appetite has also decreased, fallen off a cliff actually, is this par for the course as well in your experiences?

Cheers

H

 

[XMAN.]

Hi All.

Jip, I think the hCG may be the culprit, pinned the hCG this morning, had a dip again this afternoon. Will pin Test E for the 3rd time tomorrow morning. Have been fluish, am assuming that it is the Test? Will these symptoms go away at all? I assume that I should be patient and wait for hormone levels to stabilise?

One other thing, it's as if my appetite has also decreased, fallen off a cliff actually, is this par for the course as well in your experiences?

Cheers

H

just be patient and give it more time

 

[hannes joubert]

Hi All. Trust everyone is resting up for the new year ahead? All the best to you and yours for the coming year...

As promised, here are some updates and the inevitable questions that follow.

Started week 3 this morning, continuing with 150mg Test E every 3.5 days with 250iu hCG before every T pin.

To be honest, no changes yet (yes I know, the changes usually become apparent at or after week 3) No increase in libido (damn) have picked up about 5 lb's and feel pretty bloated, but still tired. Not despondent yet, will give the chemical enhancement time to kick in properly.

What I have noticed is what I would like your feedback/advice on pls.

I still seem to have mood swings on day three, before next injection. I delayed the hCG pin to the evening to see if this makes a difference, and it does not so now I am wondering if the mood swings are as a result of the half life of the T, and the tapering off effect, is that even plausible? If so, what would the remedy be? Higher dosage, more regular pins, different esther? Perhaps the problem is with the tapering off of the T levels, but due to a relative higher Est concentration? I think that it might be a good idea to add an AI in any event, given the water retention and bloating mentioned above, what do you all think about that? Any suggestions on an AI protocol?
What are the odds that I burn through my T quicker than the average andropause patient, this requiring higher doses?

I have also started getting piles (heammorhoids), is this normal after starting TRT?

Then another question not related to TRT, but one that will definately have an effect on TRT...In 2010 I noticed that after eating 1) potatoes (not fries) 2) 4 slices bread That I get a really rapid, and hard/loud heartbeat with extreme fatigue which takes about 3 to 4 hours to subside. I thought that the problem would be the carbs, but I can drink alcahol with a cola mixer all night (not a regular occurence, don't flame me ) Crisps with cola etc and not experience the same. So type and amount of carbs do not seem to matter. My question is, is this a type of insulin problem? What can I do to get rid of it?

Thanks in advance for your replies and advice. Monday 3rd Jan is the official starting date of the body recomp. Can't wait....

Talk soon.

H

 

[hannes joubert]

Hi there, checking in as promised...

Hmmmm, so week 4 has ended and well, a bit disappointed I s'pose. This past week has seen me cleaning up my diet by chucking out caffeine and simple carbs and changing macro nutrient ratio's to 50:20:30 (as per "re-ascending Mount Olympus" I can feel that I have dropped a lot of water due to the simple sugars being excluded and the ratio changing, BUT, I feel pretty much the same, down and out...In fact, I think that the initial boost rcvd from starting TRT has now started a tapering off and is rapidly declining. I put this down to other hormone levels picking up in relation to the extra T (notably E I think) Good thing that I can get some anti E support in the form of Nolva next week (I know this is not ideal, will finish this Nolva (30 days) and then go on to Arim/Letro).

Has anyone else experienced the same?

Will update with new figures tomorrow as Monday is my control day for weight and bf%

H

 

[hannes joubert]

Feedback time...

Starting indicators

weight [] BF%
03/01/11 118Kg's 36.12%
10/01/11 115.4Kg's 34.69% (-1.43% - +.24Kglm - 2.53kgbf)

Got a fright regarding the bf% numbers, but at least it is going in the right direction now....

 

[XMAN.]

lot of things will happen when u start hrt , it's a bit individual with some common sides like estro peaks (mood swings) and it's what happened to me too, first weeks were like hell to me it's like an adventure each day discovering something new, mental and physical (specially acne) but after a while ur body adapts to this new hormonal changes and creates a new balance and homeostasis, and eventually ur symptoms will disappear day by day (even then acne). what i suggest right now is to start an AI right away not nolva cuz it'll only blocks estro on the receptor but stay in ur system and affect alot ur mood, start adex letro or aromasin now u won't regret it u'll feel alot better but remember always start with the lowest recommended dose and go up gradually if needed.
i personally take 12.5mg aromasin e3d or eod with 250mg test e not more and i'm fine.
it's nice to c ur drop in BF% ur numbers r great for just a week improvement.

 

[hannes joubert]

"it's nice to c ur drop in BF% ur numbers r great for just a week improvement."

Thanks Xman, I know that week 2 is usually the slowest, let's just hope that the BF% continues in the right direction

 

[Avaric3]

ive just recently started trt too (last thursday actually) and i noticed a rise in libido and harder erections in just 4 days after my first 200mg shot. has that hit you yet?

and pretty much just stoppin in to say good luck wit your trt journey!

 

[hannes joubert]

Thanks avaric3

I have not really noticed much of a difference in any way shape or form, except the acne...So the hormones must be going wild.

Good luck on your journey too.

H

 

[hannes joubert]

Hi All, just checking in, tomorrow is control day 2, however I am not expecting anything to wrtie home about, being the second week (traditionally the slowest for me ito weight loss) plus the fact that I was ill the whole of last week, sinusitis that moved into the chest, so all clogged up, feverish for 5 out of the 7 days of the week and generally feeling blech.... Did manage to fit in two cardio sessions before I was totally floored... Catch up with you tomorrow..

H

 

[XMAN.]

sorry to hear about ur sickness bro hope ur fully recovered now, u know i'm always tired these days i work 12 hours a day and barely can find time to work out usually only in my day off which is one day a week and rarely in mid week after work, i'm hoping to manage to work out at least 2 days per week.

 

[hannes joubert]

Hey Xman, thanks for the well wishes, nope, no better yet, still coughing up a lung every now and then. My whole family, wife, daughter and son are also sick. Other people we know that had the same were under the kosh for 4 weeks

So, along with the cough syrup and NSAID's I was not confident in this weeks numbers and I was right to be fearful, here they are:

Weight: 115.8 Kg's (slight increase 400g increase)
BF: 34.93% (.24% increase)

Not a happy camper at the moment....

 

[hannes joubert]

Hi All, checking in before next control day. Could not train last week because of illness, so not expecting much by way of results this week...

As per another post, I am waiting for the results of my glucose panel, should get them this week. Dr suspects pre-diabetic/insulin resistance. She said she would put me on Glucophage for a time to try and sort it out, does this sound right? If so, treating with glucophage should make losing weight a little easier not so?....

H

 

[hannes joubert]

So, no insulin resistance, just a fat lazy bastard Suppose I should be thankful that I don't have that problem to work against as well.

On to this weeks results:

I am officially confused now. Did not train, diet was not as clean as it should have been, was deathly sick (still am) and figures actually improved, WHAT??

Weight: 117kg's (increase of 1.2 Kg's from previous week, starting weight 118Kg's)
BF%: 33.70% (decrease of 1.02% from previous week, starting 36.12%
Current split Lean Bm/ Fatm 77.57/39.43 Starting Lean Bm/Fatm 75.37/42.63

Talk about zig zag...and not even had a real killer workout yet....

Whatya think?
Peace
H

PS, the only thing that has changed is that I started taking Nolva last week...

 

[XMAN.]

u know the first pounds of muscles are easy to obtain once starting hrt u just reversed ur catabolic state from low test to anabolic once test starts to build up , some ppl can easily put on 5-6 lbs (or 2-3 kg) just by increasing test and eating more proteins without even working out.
i think ur test is peaking and will reach a plateau soon ur body will establish a new homeostasis (anabolism = catabolism) and new numbers lean mass/fat mass, and when u start noticing the stall then u'll have to focus a lot more on training and diet to break the plateau like u use to do in ur early ages when started working out.
u built new muscles that need calories to maintain , so even with ur current diet ur body feels a bit of a shortage and it's using ur fat storage.
btw happy to know ur not insulin resistant.
get well soon bro

 

[hannes joubert]

Thanks Xman, appreciate your replies.

Yip, good to know that insulin is not a problem. See my other thread, am thinking about stacking SARM's on top of TRT...Waiting for either a blessing or a flame from the senior guys lol

Peace
H

 

[hannes joubert]

Hey there...

Changing control days to Fridays, so hopefully will post tomorrow, keep fingers crossed.

 

[hannes joubert]

Okay, didn't post on Friday, forgot to measure and weigh, sorry bro's.

Anyway, the frustration of this illness and general feeling bad took it's toll this weekend. I finally did my nut and said stuff it, I am going to throw the weights around because I cannot wait any more, if the body breaks down, then it breaks, at least then I might find out why I am not returning to good health.

On the face of it, it may have been a foolish decision to give in to the frustration, however, at the end of the day it was the right one...I FEEL SO MUCH BETTER!!! Still a bit fluish, it's all in the mind I 'spose, but I really do feel much better. To summarise, yesterday included upper body compounds and upper body isolations and today was lower body compounds only, both days using drop sets and going for a full 45 mins each day. I left everything in the weight room and was totally spent by the end of the workout, but had a silly grin on my face after both workouts...It felt great. A bit stiff today, a bit sore (okay, a lot on both counts) but I am glad to be back...

Tomorrow is a rest day then I will continue during the week with Tabatha style workouts. Don't know what this exercise shock will do to my numbers on coming Friday will wait and see. In the meantime I am enjoying being back in the battle with the iron...

H

"Shut up and squat princess"

 

[bluflame]

Glad you are on your way back. Best of luck on your training and TRT.

 

[hannes joubert]

Thanks BlueFlame, long road, but looking forward to getting my life back....

H

"Shut up and squat princess"

 

[hannes joubert]

Boys, these d.o.m.s. are no joke, damn, my body is really sore today. Couldn't even brush my teeth this morning, and I can feel the rest of the body tightening up....Eish, ouch

You should see the looks I am getting from my wife and my kids (they have no idea what I am going through, and probably think I am bullshi!!ing)

Keep you guys up to date

 

[XMAN.]

nice to know ur back on track bro , i love doms cuz i know i'll improve and not on a plateau

 

[hannes joubert]

Never thought of it that way Xman...Funny how it works though, yesterday upper body was stuffed, and today legs, same order and spacing as the exercises...

 

[XMAN.]

just remember not to train the body part that still sore even if it's on schedule , push it a day or two till u don't feel the soreness anymore, and always take a week break every 6-8 weeks of training at least, u can keep doing light cardio in this weeks.

 

[hannes joubert]

Thanks for the advice my friend.

That is exactly what I am doing right now. The soreness has subsided somewhat, but the muscles feel tired, as though they will not have the same capacity for workouts as they did over the weekend...Anyway around that? I did apply the proper nutrition rules so I am at a bit of loss about it all...

H