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Starting my first Sustanon cycle

stucazz

New member
I'll be starting my first Sustanon cycle in a couple weeks. This will be my firsttime injecting. Once I start I will post updates. I will be using a 2cc or 3cc syringe, 21 guage for draw and 23 guage for injection with a 1" needle.
I'd like to know if 250mgs for quad injections twice a week are ok or is the glute better? Also would adding 200mgs of Deca twice a week to the shot make it less painful? Anyone?
 
One year ago I was in the very same boat you are in. I was going to be starting my first sust 500 cylce, and it was also going to be my first inject. I chose to hit myself in the glutes, alternating cheeks, for the entire cycle which was 10 weeks, so 20 total shots. Be prepared for some major pain in your ass however this will get better over time and as you inject more and more. I'm currently doing a cycle where I chose to try my quads for the first time and I personally like them a lot better than the ass. Much easier, 2 hands to use, etc. Good luck bro with your cycle and your first injection! I know I was nervous the first time, but after its over you'll be like that was nothing at all!
 
Snarling Force said:
One year ago I was in the very same boat you are in. I was going to be starting my first sust 500 cylce, and it was also going to be my first inject. I chose to hit myself in the glutes, alternating cheeks, for the entire cycle which was 10 weeks, so 20 total shots. Be prepared for some major pain in your ass however this will get better over time and as you inject more and more. I'm currently doing a cycle where I chose to try my quads for the first time and I personally like them a lot better than the ass. Much easier, 2 hands to use, etc. Good luck bro with your cycle and your first injection! I know I was nervous the first time, but after its over you'll be like that was nothing at all!
Thanks bro, I think I'll go for the quads also even though it will be my first time. I rather have pain in my leg than my ass I suppose.
 
slyder190 said:
1.5' is better suited for quads n glutes.
Nope, there you're incorrect bro. 1.5 for glutes can also be used on quads but for quad and shoulder injection you only need go down 1", therefore 1" is safer for quads.
 
Alternate betwen quads and glutes. I found quads easier but glutes less painful. It was kind of tough to reach around and stab my glute without jerking the pin around a lot. Quads were easy since I cound just sit on the couch and relax while I held a steady hand.
 
I've done all my cycles Quad, Quad, Shoulder, Shoulder... I have yet to shoot my glutes... I've never seen it done, and the whole sciatic nerve deal kinda trips me out... :)
 
Alright I just received the goods, but now I need to order some syringes and needles for draw. Can anyone post a link on where to buy them please? I have a physical and blod work scheduled for this Tuesday, shortly after I will be ready to start my cycle as follows.

wk1 - 250mg Sust
wk2 - wk11 250mg Sust
At end of cycle 100mg Clomid for one week, and 50mg after that for 4 to 6 weeks???

I need advice on when to take the Nolva:

How long before the cycle?
Do I need keep taking it during the cycle?
How much Clomid and for how long after the cycle?
 
Take the nolva if you start getting gyno, or if you wanna keep the water down(10mg works fine for me). Also it seems like ya unsure about ya PCT, so have a look at the PCT forum mate.

Mick
 
PCT: HCG-1000 iu's 3 times a week with 20mg ED Nolvadex for 3 weeks. Stop HCG and continue with Nolva 20mg ED. Clomid can be done at 50mg ED for all of PCT if wanted.

Also, mid cycle, for 7-10 days, you should do HCG at 1500 iu's ED with Nolva 20mg ED. Continue with injections while you do this.
 
When you stop the HCG for post-cycle PCT, do the Nolvadex for 3 more weeks. PCT total time is 6 weeks. Start your PCT 3 weeks after last Sust shot.
 
Why do I need to inject another testosterone production enhancer??? I will be doing 500mgs of Test per week! The Nolva and Clomid should suffice no?
 
stucazz said:
Why do I need to inject another testosterone production enhancer??? I will be doing 500mgs of Test per week! The Nolva and Clomid should suffice no?

The HCG will restore your nuts back to size if they shrink(which they should). Also, it helps to restore your HPTA so you don't lose all of those gains you just spent 12 weeks getting.
 
So you're saying I gotta shoot another 500mg's of "Pregnyl" in addition to the Sustanon? That's going to be painful..... 4 shots a week?
 
I usually go for the quads, They are the last thing I work in the week. LEss pain, less pain while lifting with them. Plus I hate shots in the ass.
 
Well it's good you're doing research... check out the PCT forum...
 
if this is your 1st cycle i bet you keep most of your gains.....
but the safest way would be with the HCG..
most do it at the end of the cycle... or right after the cycle... Just to kick you back in
so if you are worried about takeing more shots... you can wait til your juice is gone..
....but some do the hcg during the cycle so there balls stay active...

but if you dont know what HCG is you should do some reading... it is just another plus..
 
Ok so what would be the best for HCG to use with a Sustanon cycle? I will be taking 250mg twice a week. Also, should i take Clomid or Nolva also? And if so how much? Thanks.
 
The usual protocol is to inject 1500-3000 I.U. every 4th or 5th day, for a duration usually no longer than 2 or 3 weeks... so say last shot was
mon..........Tues..........wed..........thurs..........fri..........sat..........sun week 1 .......
500mg...sustanonl last shot........

Week 2 no shots... no shots
mon .........Tues..........wed..........thurs..........fri..........sat..........sun week 2

3rd week 100mg clomid everyday
mon..........Tues..........wed .........thurs ........ fri ........ sat ........ sun week 3
HCG ...................................... HCG.......................................
5000 iu ............................................2500.................................. ..
now go to every third day.... clomid still 100mg a day HCG 2500 ius week 4
week 5 same finish off same week 5
then go 2 more weeks with 50mg day clomid...... This is an example i got out of Anabolics 2004 ... hope it helps
 
Bro, I'd say since this is your first time, I'd stick to the glutes. In my opinion, you should run 250/mg every 4-5 days to keep consistent blood levels. Sust leaves your body in about 5 days I believe so doing it once every 7 days isn't too wise. Sust is pretty inexpensive stuff man but honestly I'd only run 250/mg/wk. If you are committed and have a great routine and diet you'll be amazed at your results. Remember to keep in mind it's not about how much bigger you get. It's about the overall quality your muscles become. Good luck and keep us posted on what you decide. Don't hesitate to e-mail with any questions.
 
stucazz said:
So you're saying I gotta shoot another 500mg's of "Pregnyl" in addition to the Sustanon? That's going to be painful..... 4 shots a week?

You'll only do the Sust and HCG at the same time for one week; mid-cycle. Read my earlier post more carefully about the HCG injections. You will also use it for PCT along with Nolvadex - and Clomid if you desire.
 
Do you think that he really needs HCG if he is only taking 250 mg of sust a week? Thats what I am on and only plan on taking Nolvadex and tribulus.
Sust leaves your body in about 5 days I believe so doing it once every 7 days isn't too wise
Thats not true. Sust will stay in your system a lot longer then 5 days. More like two weeks or longer. I would also only take 250 mg every week for your first cycle. Eat right and train hard and you'll get good results.
 
Sustanon can be shot once a week... 250 a week should do fine for 8 weeks.... I did that as my first cycle and gained 22lbs... kept 15..
 
anthony518 said:
Do you think that he really needs HCG if he is only taking 250 mg of sust a week? Thats what I am on and only plan on taking Nolvadex and tribulus.
Thats not true. Sust will stay in your system a lot longer then 5 days. More like two weeks or longer. I would also only take 250 mg every week for your first cycle. Eat right and train hard and you'll get good results.

What the hell was I thinking...sorry guys. Sust stays in your system for 2 weeks. But I read that to have consistent blood levels you should take every 4-5 days. Sorry about the confussion.
 
as far as how long it stays in your system..
we do know that Sustanon 250 is
30m testosterone propionate
60mg testosterone phenylpropionate
60mg testosterone isocaproate
100mmg testosterone decanoate
correct........ and it remains active in the body for approximately three weeks,
.BUT.. if you were taking these seperatly would you take them one week apart???

well if was be i would probably not worry about the hgc... unless runny a really long cycle.... but thats me.... and for the sustan on your system...

testosterone propionate: alone is usually taken 50-100mgs every 2 or 3 days

testosterone phenylpropionate: is about the same as propionate at most can be stretched to every 4th day

and i am not really sure about the other two.... so you can look at it that way..
plus some say .. Sustanon is just an over priced testosterone.... I have had good luck with it myself... but... i would rather just go with (cypionate or enanthate)
 
HCG INFO....

Using HCG
It is our opinion that HCG is probably one of the most misunderstood and misused compounds in bodybuilding. Hopefully this information will go some way towards rectifying that for the members of MuscleTalk. HCG stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin and is not a steroid, but a natural peptide hormone which develops in the placenta of pregnant women during pregnancy to controls the mother's hormones. (Incidentally, this is the reason you may hear of people testing for growth hormone (HGH) with a pregnancy testing kit - If their HGH shows 'pregnant', they've been ripped-off with cheaper HCG - but we digress slightly).

Its action in the male body is like that of LH, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone even in the absence of endogenous LH. HCG is therefore used during longer or heavier steroid cycles to maintain testicular size and condition, or to bring atrophied (shrunken) testicles back up to their original condition in preparation for post-cycle Clomid therapy. This process is necessary because atrophied testicles produce reduced levels of natural testosterone, this situation should be rectified prior to post-cycle Clomid therapy.

HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production.

The typically observed dosing of 2000 to 5000IU every 4 to 5 days causes such an increase in oestrogen levels via aromatisation of the natural testosterone that this has been responsible for many cases of gynecomastia.

From the above discussion it is clear that HCG is best used during a cycle, either to:

1) Avoid testicular atrophy, or
2) Rectify the problem of an existing testicular atrophy.

Doses of HCG
Smaller doses, more frequently during a cycle will give best overall results with least unwanted side effects. Somewhere between 500iu and 1000iu per day would be best over about a two-week period. These doses are sufficient to avoid/rectify testicular atrophy without increasing oestrogen levels too dramatically and risking gynecomastia. This dosing schedule also avoids the risk of permanently down-regulating the LH receptors in the testes.

Presentation and Administration of HCG
Synthetic HCG is often known as Pregnyl (generic name) and is available in 2500iu and 5000iu (not ideal for the above doses!). Administration of the compound is either by intra-muscular or subcutaneous injection. It comes as a powder which needs to be mixed with the sterile water. The powder is temperature-sensitive prior to mixing and should not be exposed to direct heat. After mixing, it should be kept refrigerated and used within a few weeks - though there are sterility issues which need to be considered after mixing.
 
How about this for an explanation:

chorionic gonadotropin

Delivery : 1 vial (1ml- 5000 i.u.)



Click to enlarge
Substance: Chorionic gonadotropin

HCG is not an anabolic/androgenic steroid but a natural protein hormone which develops in the placenta of a pregnant woman. HCG is formed in the placenta immediately after nidation. It has luteinizing characteristics since it is quite similar to the luteinizing hormone LH in the anterior pituitary gland.During the first 6-8 weeks of a pregnancy the formed HCG allows for continued production of estrogens and gestagens in the yellow bodies (corpi luteum). Later on, the placenta itself produces these two hormones.

How it works

HCG is manufactured from the urine of pregnant women since it is exereted in unchanged form from the blood via the woman's urine, passing through the kidneys. The commercially available HCG is sold as a dry substance and can be used both in men and women. In women injectable HCG allows for owlation since it influences the last stages of the development of the ovum, thus stimulating ovulation. It also helps produce estrogens and yellow bodies. The fact that exogenous HCG has characteristics almost identical to those of the luteinizing hormone (LH) which, as mentioned, is produced in the hypophysis, makes HCG so very interesting for athletes. In a man the luteinizing hormone stimulates the Leydig's cells in the testes; this in turn stimulates production of androgenic hormones (testosterone). For this reason athletes use injectable HCG to increase the testosterone production.

HCG is often used in combination with anabolic/androgenic steroids during or after treatment. As mentioned, oral and injectable steroids cause a negative feedback after a certain level and duration of usage. A signal is sent to the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis since the steroids give the hypothalamus an incorrect signal. The hypothalamus, in turn, signals the hypophysis to reduce or stop the production of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and of LH. Thus, the testosterone production decreases since the testosterone-producing Leydig's cells in the testes, due to decreased LH, are no longer sufficiently stimulated. Since the body usually needs a certain amount of time to get its testosterone production going again, the athlete, after discontinuing steroid compounds, experiences a difficult transition phase which often goes hand in hand with a considerable loss in both strength and muscle mass.

Administering HCG directly after steroid treatment helps to reduce this condition because HCG increases the testosterone production in the testes very quickly and reliably. In the event of testicular atrophy caused by megadoses and very long periods of usage, HCG also helps to quickly bring the testes back to their original condition (size).

Since occasional injections of HCG during steroid intake can avoid a testicular atrophy, many athletes use HCG for two to three weeks in the middle of their steroid treatment. It is often observed that during this time the athlete makes his best progress with respect to gains in both strength and muscle mass. The reasons for this is clear. On the one hand, by taking HCG the athlete's own testosterone level immediately jumps up and, on the other hand, a large concentration of anabolic substances in the blood is induced by the steroids. Many bodybuilders, powerlifters, and weightlifters report a lower sex drive at the end of a difficult workout cycle, immediately before or after a competition, and especially toward the end of a steroid treatment. Athletes who have often taken steroids in the past usually accept this fact since they know that it is a temporary condition. Those, however who are on the juice all year round, who might suffer psychological consequences or who would perhaps risk the breakup of a relationship because of this should consider this drawback when taking HCG in regular intervals. A reduced libido and spermatogenesis due to steroids in most cases, can be successfully cured by treatment with HCG.

Most athletes, however, use HCG at the end of a treatment in order to avoid a "crash," that is, to achieve the best possible transition into "natural training." A precondition, however, is that the steroid intake or dosage be reduced slowly and evenly before taking HCG.

Although HCG causes a quick and significant increase of the endogenic plasmatestosterone level, unfortunately it is not a perfect remedy to prevent the loss of strength and mass at the end of a steroid treatment. The athlete will only experience a delayed re-adjustment, as has often been observed.

Although HCG does stimulate endogenous testosterone production, it does not help in reestablishing the normal hypothalamic/pituitary testicular axis. The hypothalamus and pituitary are still in a refractory state after prolonged steroid usage, and remain this way while HCG is being used, because the endogenous testosterone produced as a result of the exogenous HCG represses the endogenous LH production. Once the HCG is discontinued, the athlete must still go through a re-adjustment period. This is merely delayed by the HCG use. For this reason experienced athletes often take Clomid and Clenbuterol following HCG intake or they immediately begin another steroid treatment. Some take HCG merely to get off the "steroids" for at least two to three weeks.

Many bodybuilders, unfortunately, are still of the opinion that HCG helps them become harder while preparing for a competion by breaking down subcutaneous fat so that indentations and vascularity are better exposed. The HCG package insert states clearly that HCG has no known effect of fat mobilization, appetite or sense of hunger, or body fat distribution. HCG has not been demonstrated to be effective adjunctive therapy in the treatment of obesity, it does not increase fat losses beyond that resulting from caloric restriction.

Dosages

Athlete should iniect one HCG ampule (5000 I.U.) every 5 days. Since the testosterone level, as explained, remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The relative dose is at the discretion of the athlete and should be determined based on the duration of his previous steroid intake and on the strength of the various steroid compounds.

Athletes who take steroids for more than three months and athletes who use primarily the highly androgenic steroids such as Anadrol, Sustanon , Cypionate, Dianabol (D-bol), etc. should take a relatively high dosage. The effective dosage for athletes is usually 2000-5000 I.U. per injection and should-as already mentioned-be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a 4 weeks maximum. If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function.

Cycles on the HCG should be kept down to around 3 weeks at a time with an off cycle of at least a month in between. For example, one might use the HCG for 2 or 3 weeks in the middle of a cycle, and for 2 or 3 weeks at the end of a cycle. It has been speculated that the prolonged use of HCG could permanently, repress the body's own production of gonadotropins. This is why short cycles are the best way to go.

Side effects

HCG can in part cause side effects similar to those of injectable testosterone. A higher testosterone production also goes hand in hand with an elevated estrogen level which could result in gynecomastia. This could manifest itself in a temporary growth of breasts or reinforce already existing breast growth in men. Farsighted athletes thus combine HCG with an antiestrogen.

Male athletes also report more frequent erections and an inereased sexual desire. In high doses it can cause acne vulgaris and the storing of minerals and water. The last point must especially be observed since the water retention which is possible through the use of HCG could give the muscle system a puffy and watery appearance.

Athletes who have already increased their endogenous testosterone level by taking Clomid and intend subsequently to take HCG could experience considerable water retention and distinct feminization symptoms (gynecomastia, tendency toward fat deposits on the hips). This is due to the fact that high testosterone leads to a high conversion rate to estrogens. In very young athletes HCG, like anabolic steroids, can cause an early stunting of growth since it prematurely closes the epiphysial growth plates. Mood swings and high blood pressure can also be attributed to the intake of HCG. HCG is also suitable as "over bridge" doping before a competition with doping controls.

HCG's form of administration is also unusual. The substance choriongonadotropin is a white powdery freeze-dried substance which is usually used as a compress. Based on the low structural stability of this compress it can easily fall apart, thus giving the impression of a reduced volume. This is, however, insignificant since there is neither a loss in effect nor a loss of substance.

Each package, for each HCG ampule, includes another ampule with an injection solution containing isotonic sodium chloride. This liquid, after both ampules have been opened in a sterile manner, is injected into the HCG ampule and mixed with the dried substance. The solution is then ready for use and should be injected intramuscularly. If only part of the substance is injected the residual solution should be stored in the refrigerator. It is not necessary to store the unmixed HCG in the refrigerator; however, it should be kept out of light and below a temperature of 25° C. HCG is a relatively expensive compound. Pregnyl costs approx.$36 -45 for 3 ampules of 5000 I.U. each and the relative solution ampules. The other compounds have a similar price and are $12 -15 for 5000 I.U.
 
Stacemranger said:
PCT: HCG-1000 iu's 3 times a week with 20mg ED Nolvadex for 3 weeks. Stop HCG and continue with Nolva 20mg ED. Clomid can be done at 50mg ED for all of PCT if wanted.

Also, mid cycle, for 7-10 days, you should do HCG at 1500 iu's ED with Nolva 20mg ED. Continue with injections while you do this.
Ok so does everyone agree with this?
 
Two shot's a week of 250mg will give you very pleasing results, If this is your first time you inject sust you'll probably get more than you bargained for :king: :king: :king:

Mixing sust with deca is also a very good idea: 2cc of deca is just fine, but even 1cc will help to kill the pain completely. Otherwise, if you inject the sust pure, it WILL hurt, especially the 3-4 first injections,
Mind that the half life of deca is longer than sust, It would be benificial to take the last 6-8 shots pure (reason for this is that the low dose of deca will be quit suppresive and not (very much) anabolic: the pct-treatment has to be postponed also.

I always take my shot's in my tighs, with a one inch, 25gauge needle (in this case just warm the syringe up just before injection: the oil will get more liquid and this will easen the injection alot


good luck bro
 
quad shots are fine. I shot 1ml of sus250 in my quad last sunday, it was cake. I was nervous from what I've read about it, but it actually got less sore than my glute shots and the soreness was gone a day or two sooner. i used 25 guage to shoot---takes a while since it's so small and the oil is thick, but that's probably best for your muscle.
 
looks good longer version.. so what cha going to do .... just sustanon or add in HGC or .... some deca... or d-bol.... whats the plan now???
 
ruyu_hayabusa said:
Two shot's a week of 250mg will give you very pleasing results, If this is your first time you inject sust you'll probably get more than you bargained for :king: :king: :king:

Mixing sust with deca is also a very good idea: 2cc of deca is just fine, but even 1cc will help to kill the pain completely. Otherwise, if you inject the sust pure, it WILL hurt, especially the 3-4 first injections,
Mind that the half life of deca is longer than sust, It would be benificial to take the last 6-8 shots pure (reason for this is that the low dose of deca will be quit suppresive and not (very much) anabolic: the pct-treatment has to be postponed also.

I always take my shot's in my tighs, with a one inch, 25gauge needle (in this case just warm the syringe up just before injection: the oil will get more liquid and this will easen the injection alot


good luck bro
I really liked what you had to say about Sust, sounds like you know your stuff bro. Concerning the Deca; I hear that it will shrink the testicles even more, so would it be better to add HCG during and after the cycle? Have you used HCG before? Or would it be better to use Clomid. Also I ordered 23guage (21 for draw), so I hope it'll be alright... I know it's a larger tip.
 
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roidpuple said:
looks good longer version.. so what cha going to do .... just sustanon or add in HGC or .... some deca... or d-bol.... whats the plan now???

Well by now I figure adding deca would make thing easier and less painful, plus by adding deca I wouldn't need to use HCG?
 
PURE EXTRACT said:
Bro, I'd say since this is your first time, I'd stick to the glutes. In my opinion, you should run 250/mg every 4-5 days to keep consistent blood levels. Sust leaves your body in about 5 days I believe so doing it once every 7 days isn't too wise. Sust is pretty inexpensive stuff man but honestly I'd only run 250/mg/wk. If you are committed and have a great routine and diet you'll be amazed at your results. Remember to keep in mind it's not about how much bigger you get. It's about the overall quality your muscles become. Good luck and keep us posted on what you decide. Don't hesitate to e-mail with any questions.
Thanks for the advoice bro.
I will be doing 250mgs wk 1, and 500mgs thereafter, and drop to 250mgs on wk 12. I have 20 ampules might as well use them all ;)
And truthfully bro, my internet source is killing me. I paid $400 for 20 ampules of the stuff, you do the math. Looks like now I'll need to order Deca or HCG and Nolva... ouch! That's gonna hurt $$$. What I need is a better source... :qt:
 
Well if it's legit... sometimes it's better to pay a little more.. :D
 
stucazz said:
Well by now I figure adding deca would make thing easier and less painful, plus by adding deca I wouldn't need to use HCG?

did you say by adding in Deca... that you will not need HCG.??
well i would say you should do find 1st cycle and all even with out any HGC..
as long as you dont lose your balls ... that is they dont gett really small you should be fine.... but Deca wont help that... and if you are comparing clomid to HCG.... for recomvery... HGC stands alone...

I did a 6 week cycle with 250mg of sustanon every 5 days...
25mg dbol.... and 25 winny... a day.. it was my 3rd cycle....
i gained about 15lbs and i dident do legs because of a torn ACL...
so mostly all upper body... i dident use HGC and kept it all....
 
Snarling Force said:
One year ago I was in the very same boat you are in. I was going to be starting my first sust 500 cylce, and it was also going to be my first inject. I chose to hit myself in the glutes, alternating cheeks, for the entire cycle which was 10 weeks, so 20 total shots. Be prepared for some major pain in your ass however this will get better over time and as you inject more and more. I'm currently doing a cycle where I chose to try my quads for the first time and I personally like them a lot better than the ass. Much easier, 2 hands to use, etc. Good luck bro with your cycle and your first injection! I know I was nervous the first time, but after its over you'll be like that was nothing at all!
Just curious, what did you do for HCG on that sust cycle?
 
Stacemranger said:
You'll only do the Sust and HCG at the same time for one week; mid-cycle. Read my earlier post more carefully about the HCG injections. You will also use it for PCT along with Nolvadex - and Clomid if you desire.

On your previous posts you said to do the HCG for 6 weeks. Kinda confusing.
 
At the doses you're running, I think you'll be fine without hcg. You can use it if you want, but why not just save your money if you can get by without it.
 
Outtlaw said:
At the doses you're running, I think you'll be fine without hcg. You can use it if you want, but why not just save your money if you can get by without it.

Absolutely agree. I notice all the advice on hcg, which is great, but I think the person and thier individual cycle is a determining factor. Such a mild cycle of Sust alone doesn't require the same pct as so many other cycles. He may see no gyno or nut shrinkage.
 
stucazz said:
On your previous posts you said to do the HCG for 6 weeks. Kinda confusing.

I know all the guys are saying with a mild cycle of 500 sust/EW that you probably won't need HCG. They're probably right, but I would much rather be safe than sorry, put off my cycle a little longer and buy HCG. For me, it has taken longer to plan my PCT than it did to plan my cycle.

Ok, about the HCG shots.

Here's my post

stacemranger said:
PCT: HCG-1000 iu's 3 times a week with 20mg ED Nolvadex for 3 weeks. Stop HCG and continue with Nolva 20mg ED. Clomid can be done at 50mg ED for all of PCT if wanted.

Also, mid cycle, for 7-10 days, you should do HCG at 1500 iu's ED with Nolva 20mg ED. Continue with injections while you do this.

Ok, so to recap.
Mid cycle: HCG for one week.
PCT: HCG for three weeks.
 
Outtlaw said:
At the doses you're running, I think you'll be fine without hcg. You can use it if you want, but why not just save your money if you can get by without it.
So you consider 500mgs per week of Sust mild?
 
stucazz said:
So you consider 500mgs per week of Sust mild?

By itself, yes IMO. I went 12 weeks on Sust. alone once. I pyramided the dosage where 500mg a week was max for 4 weeks and never had nut shrinkage or gyno. Everyone is different though.
 
stucazz said:
So you consider 500mgs per week of Sust mild?
That depends on the person you're asking. Do I think hcg is a must on a 12wk cycle of sust at 500mg? No. The point is why take a bunch of stuff if you can get by without? Why take 20mg of nolva if you can get by with 10mg?
 
Stacemranger said:
PCT: HCG-1000 iu's 3 times a week with 20mg ED Nolvadex for 3 weeks. Stop HCG and continue with Nolva 20mg ED. Clomid can be done at 50mg ED for all of PCT if wanted.

Also, mid cycle, for 7-10 days, you should do HCG at 1500 iu's ED with Nolva 20mg ED. Continue with injections while you do this.
That's a lot of hcg. I run 3-4x the amount of gear this guy is running and even I dont need that much hcg.
 
Thanks guys for the continued support. I think just to be safe i will postpone my cycle a couple more weeks or until I have some HCG and Nolva on hand. I don't want to take any chances with the family jewels. The following is my proposed 12 wk cycle:

Week 1 - 250 mgs Sust (Sun) for a total of 250mgs.

Weeks 2 thru 11 - 250mgs Sust (Sun/Tue) for a total of 500mgs per wk, plus 35mgs Naposim(Dianabol) ED for the first 6 weeks of the cycle.

Week 12 - 250 mgs Sust (Sun) for a total of 250mgs.

For PCT:

Two days after the last shot: 500 IUs HCG 2x/wk (mon/wed) in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, I discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks. How does this look?

I will post updates once I start.
 
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stucazz said:
I really liked what you had to say about Sust, sounds like you know your stuff bro. Concerning the Deca; I hear that it will shrink the testicles even more, so would it be better to add HCG during and after the cycle? Have you used HCG before? Or would it be better to use Clomid. Also I ordered 23guage (21 for draw), so I hope it'll be alright... I know it's a larger tip.

thx, it's always nice when someone appreciates ones advice,

concerning deca:
once again you're right: my experience is that deca causes the most severe atrophy of all steroids(including test prop; dianabol; oxybolone).
I only use it at very low dosages and this mostly for making my sust injection bearable(to be honnest this is the only reason why I use it)
primobolan is a much, much beter choice to combine with sust: this makes you in no time looking like a fitness-model rather than cause bloat like deca
Unfortunately my primo's ran out of stock (planning a holiday to turkey VERY SOON :Manny:

  • Concerning hcg:
    hcg as pct
    I never use hcg as pct because it's very effective in the cosmetical aspect (a few hours after injection you'll notice an increase in size of your n*ts), but it doesn't kickstart the brains hpta-protocol. Clomid is a much better choice

    hcg during cycle: intresting for maintaining testicular size : but nothing more
    hcg after cycle: in my opinion useless and if used without clomid even contraproductive(due to high aromatisation)
    Again I prefer clomid above hcg during


    By the way: from where are you?

    Hoping to have cleared some things out,
    Sincerely,
    Ruyu




    I
 
ruyu_hayabusa said:
thx, it's always nice when someone appreciates ones advice,

concerning deca:
once again you're right: my experience is that deca causes the most severe atrophy of all steroids(including test prop; dianabol; oxybolone).
I only use it at very low dosages and this mostly for making my sust injection bearable(to be honnest this is the only reason why I use it)
primobolan is a much, much beter choice to combine with sust: this makes you in no time looking like a fitness-model rather than cause bloat like deca
Unfortunately my primo's ran out of stock (planning a holiday to turkey VERY SOON :Manny:

  • Concerning hcg:
    hcg as pct
    I never use hcg as pct because it's very effective in the cosmetical aspect (a few hours after injection you'll notice an increase in size of your n*ts), but it doesn't kickstart the brains hpta-protocol. Clomid is a much better choice

    hcg during cycle: intresting for maintaining testicular size : but nothing more
    hcg after cycle: in my opinion useless and if used without clomid even contraproductive(due to high aromatisation)
    Again I prefer clomid above hcg during


    By the way: from where are you?

    Hoping to have cleared some things out,
    Sincerely,
    Ruyu




    I
  • almost forgot: don't worry about needle thickness: 23 gauge will be ok, even easier to inject but a little more painfull
    Once you mastered your lateral thigh injection method, with a 25gauge you'll feel nothing (I mean realy nothing) but you have to heat the syringe a little bit right before injecting
 
stucazz said:
Thanks guys for the continued support. I think just to be safe i will postpone my cycle a couple more weeks or until I have some HCG and Nolva on hand. I don't want to take any chances with the family jewels. The following is my proposed 12 wk cycle:

Week 1 - 250 mgs Sust (Sun) for a total of 250mgs.

Weeks 2 thru 11 - 250mgs Sust (Sun/Tue) for a total of 500mgs per wk, plus 35mgs Naposim(Dianabol) ED for the first 6 weeks of the cycle.

Week 12 - 250 mgs Sust (Sun) for a total of 250mgs.

For PCT:

Two days after the last shot: 500 IUs HCG 2x/wk (mon/wed) in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, I discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks. How does this look?

I will post updates once I start.
Looks good to me.
 
Alright guys, no I am not dead and yes I'm still going to start my cycle. Since my last post I came down with the flu and I have finally come out of it. I have not even been able to work out for nearly 3 weeks but now I'm back in the gym. Turns out I have been able to get some Deca and HCG plus Nolva; I'll be incorporating these with my Test cycle. The following will be my new first cycle:

12wk cycle:

Week 1 (Sun) - 250 mgs(1ml) Sust, combined with 50mg(1/2ml) Deca for a total of 300mgs, plus 10mgs of Naposim(5mg in the morning and 5mg in the evening).

Weeks 2 thru 11 - 250mgs Sust and 50mgs Deca (Sun/Wed) for a total of 500mgs x wk and 100mgs Deca x wk, plus 10mgs Naposim(5mg in the morning and 5mg in the evening).

Week 12 (Sun) - 250 mgs(1ml) Sust, combined with 50mg(1/2ml) Deca for a total of 300mgs, plus 10mgs of Naposim(5mg in the morning and 5mg in the evening).

For PCT:

Mid cycle(wk 6): 500 IUs HCG (sun/wed) for a total of 1000 IUs.

Two days after the last shot: 1000 IUs HCG 2x/wk (sun/wed) in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED and 50mgs Clomid for the first week(7days). After, I discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolva ED for an additional 5 weeks.

How does this new cycle and PCT look to you guys?

I will be doing my first quad injection in a few minutes... wish me luck!

My current profile:

Sex: Male

Age: 42

Weight: 182lbs

Height: 5' 10"

Body fat: 19.5%
 
I personally thinbk 10mg of naposims is a complete waste of your money unless I missed some important reason in this thread as to why you are. I wouldnt go any lower than 20mg day... I believe the perfect does is 25mg/day
 
badslinky said:
I personally thinbk 10mg of naposims is a complete waste of your money unless I missed some important reason in this thread as to why you are. I wouldnt go any lower than 20mg day... I believe the perfect does is 25mg/day
I didnt notice that you were doing it for 12 weeks... so that being said you may get some good slow steady gains from that... I cant say for sure though... the longest i have done it is 6 weeks at 50mgs/day
 
I DID IT! :) I just did my first shot and here's what happened:

I was mixing Deca and Test, so first i took 1/2 ml of Deca and then drew the other 1ml of Test. Getting all of the bubbles out was a challange, but after going over this sequence 3 or 4 times I eventually figured out that the trick was in drawing the oil nice and slow. Inserting the needle in my quad was easy (just a pinch), I warmed up the syringe under warm water and let a couple of drops of oil run down the pin(it went in like butter), then I had some difficulty pulling back, I figured the vacuum was preventing me from doing so but I insisted and was able to pull back just a tad, no blood was present, just a bubble, so I went ahead and started injecting 1.5 ml of oil into my thigh, and I hardly felt it. Thruthfully after all I've been reading all the posts on here I was expecting worse. I massaged the area and it feels a little sore right now, but I know it's normal. I was wondering if any experienced user could tell me what happens if a couple of really small bubbles remain in the syringe? Is that dangerous? Just curious.
 
Just lightly flick the syringe (with the cover on it of course) and the air bubbles will all rise to the top and disappear.
 
Yeah that what I did.
stucazz said:
I DID IT! :) I just did my first shot and here's what happened:

I was mixing Deca and Test, so first i took 1/2 ml of Deca and then drew the other 1ml of Test. Getting all of the bubbles out was a challange, but after going over this sequence 3 or 4 times I eventually figured out that the trick was in drawing the oil nice and slow. Inserting the needle in my quad was easy (just a pinch), I warmed up the syringe under warm water and let a couple of drops of oil run down the pin(it went in like butter), then I had some difficulty pulling back, I figured the vacuum was preventing me from doing so but I insisted and was able to pull back just a tad, no blood was present, just a bubble, so I went ahead and started injecting 1.5 ml of oil into my thigh, and I hardly felt it. Thruthfully after all I've been reading all the posts on here I was expecting worse. I massaged the area and it feels a little sore right now, but I know it's normal. I was wondering if any experienced user could tell me what happens if a couple of really small bubbles remain in the syringe? Is that dangerous? Just curious.
 
Well i've gone past my third shot now, and i feel absolutely nothing. No strangth gain not weight and i do realize that this is only my second week, however my strength seems to be down and so my appetite, i try to force myself to eat but I just can't get past 2000 calories a day. As we all know, while on a cycle you get hungrier and stronger, but this is not my case so far. I just hope my shit is good. My sex drive is pretty crappy also by the way and can't hold my hard ons lately, but that may just be me...? Shouldn't test help? I wonder... Will post updates in a few days, we'll just wait and see what happens.
 
stucazz said:
Well i've gone past my third shot now, and i feel absolutely nothing. No strangth gain not weight and i do realize that this is only my second week, however my strength seems to be down and so my appetite, i try to force myself to eat but I just can't get past 2000 calories a day. As we all know, while on a cycle you get hungrier and stronger, but this is not my case so far. I just hope my shit is good. My sex drive is pretty crappy also by the way and can't hold my hard ons lately, but that may just be me...? Shouldn't test help? I wonder... Will post updates in a few days, we'll just wait and see what happens.

gotta eat more brother... my off day today, im tryin to eat/ consume protein every 1.5 hours- 2 hours... I have my 3rd meal comin up in a few.. then another at 12;30, then a shake at 2;30- another meal at 4;30, shake around 6:00 .. meal at 8:00.. and another meal/ shake before bed around 10ish. Its a lot of calories but u need it to grow... also its only your 2nd week.. you'll start to see good gains comin in a few weeks.
I got my 4th poke coming tonight, good luck
 
sweed said:
gotta eat more brother... my off day today, im tryin to eat/ consume protein every 1.5 hours- 2 hours... I have my 3rd meal comin up in a few.. then another at 12;30, then a shake at 2;30- another meal at 4;30, shake around 6:00 .. meal at 8:00.. and another meal/ shake before bed around 10ish. Its a lot of calories but u need it to grow... also its only your 2nd week.. you'll start to see good gains comin in a few weeks.
I got my 4th poke coming tonight, good luck
Yeah we started our cycle at the same time bro, I'm doing my fourth today as well. I try to eat but my appetite has been down. Have you tried egg whites with your shakes? I'll force myself to eat even more but I do eat quite a bit, I think I put on 3 or 4 lbs so far but at 42 I don't want to get fat either, so I have to watch what I eat.
 
stucazz said:
Well i've gone past my third shot now, and i feel absolutely nothing. No strangth gain not weight and i do realize that this is only my second week, however my strength seems to be down and so my appetite, i try to force myself to eat but I just can't get past 2000 calories a day. As we all know, while on a cycle you get hungrier and stronger, but this is not my case so far. I just hope my shit is good. My sex drive is pretty crappy also by the way and can't hold my hard ons lately, but that may just be me...? Shouldn't test help? I wonder... Will post updates in a few days, we'll just wait and see what happens.

so you had three shots,
with what time interval in between,

but anyway,
think you're scammed
Actually I am running a sust cycle to (two shots 500mg for frontloading and fom then on 250mg, and this with a time interval of 4-5 days) this in combination with 50 mg oxymetholone starting 3days after every shot this to keep roids in blood stable)
and I am growing like weed.
Also the fact that you're apetite is so low isn't normal. With sust I always notice an incredible hunger, starting a few hours after first injection.

But I do think that the deca you have is genuine, this explains your low sex drive, (first 2 shots of my cycle where also miixed with 1cc of deca, lost my sex drive for 4 weeks, and this was mixed with 500cc of test can you imagine?
Some people are very sensitive for this deca side effect.

Conclusion:
I don't want to freak you out but
If this is true (false sust and genuine deca)you are in a bad situation

100cc of deca is enough to shut down your own test production
but not enough to build muscle: this results in muscular los

You should immediate increase you'r deca to 300cc-400cc weekly and get you're hands on some orals dianabol or oxymetholone
(and kick your supplier between his legs)


But this is just my opinion,
hope I get some feedback


ruyu
 
Ummm, I think it's all good stuff. My Sust looks legit,(label,packaging and color of the oil), as far as the the loss of appetite as I had mentioned, is (I do believe) due to the flu I had last month. I started injecting just as I was coming out of it, and my appetite has been increasing since I started injecting, so has my strength, and my weight is going up as well. I was about 180lbs when I started, and now after 3 weeks I'm up to 193lbs, although I feel that some of it is water weight. I started week 4 today and took another shot and on Wednesday I'll have the next which will then complete week four. I'll post more updates in a couple of weeks with results.

ruyu_hayabusa said:
so you had three shots,
with what time interval in between,

but anyway,
think you're scammed
Actually I am running a sust cycle to (two shots 500mg for frontloading and fom then on 250mg, and this with a time interval of 4-5 days) this in combination with 50 mg oxymetholone starting 3days after every shot this to keep roids in blood stable)
and I am growing like weed.
Also the fact that you're apetite is so low isn't normal. With sust I always notice an incredible hunger, starting a few hours after first injection.

But I do think that the deca you have is genuine, this explains your low sex drive, (first 2 shots of my cycle where also miixed with 1cc of deca, lost my sex drive for 4 weeks, and this was mixed with 500cc of test can you imagine?
Some people are very sensitive for this deca side effect.

Conclusion:
I don't want to freak you out but
If this is true (false sust and genuine deca)you are in a bad situation

100cc of deca is enough to shut down your own test production
but not enough to build muscle: this results in muscular los

You should immediate increase you'r deca to 300cc-400cc weekly and get you're hands on some orals dianabol or oxymetholone
(and kick your supplier between his legs)


But this is just my opinion,
hope I get some feedback


ruyu
 
ruyu_hayabusa said:
so you had three shots,
with what time interval in between,

but anyway,
think you're scammed
Actually I am running a sust cycle to (two shots 500mg for frontloading and fom then on 250mg, and this with a time interval of 4-5 days) this in combination with 50 mg oxymetholone starting 3days after every shot this to keep roids in blood stable)
and I am growing like weed.
Also the fact that you're apetite is so low isn't normal. With sust I always notice an incredible hunger, starting a few hours after first injection.

But I do think that the deca you have is genuine, this explains your low sex drive, (first 2 shots of my cycle where also miixed with 1cc of deca, lost my sex drive for 4 weeks, and this was mixed with 500cc of test can you imagine?
Some people are very sensitive for this deca side effect.

Conclusion:
I don't want to freak you out but
If this is true (false sust and genuine deca)you are in a bad situation

100cc of deca is enough to shut down your own test production
but not enough to build muscle: this results in muscular los

You should immediate increase you'r deca to 300cc-400cc weekly and get you're hands on some orals dianabol or oxymetholone
(and kick your supplier between his legs)


But this is just my opinion,
hope I get some feedback


ruyu

doses are mg not cc's, no one can take 500cc of Test at once :rolleyes:
 
PROGRESS UPDATE:

Well I'm on wk 8 of this 12 wk cycle, and so far I've only gained 10lbs. People seem to notice a weight gain however I know most of that is muscle. I must admit, I was expecting more gains that this, so I'm a little upset about it. My appetite sucks, and my strength is down, but I'm allergic, and the loss of strength may also be due to that. My sex drive is way up now, so at least I'm happy about that, it all improved drastically the minute i got off the Dbol. I got no ball shrinkage and no gyno either. The bloatness has also decreased since I stopped the Dbol. I hit a vein last week for the first time but I pulled out and reinjected, so no problems there. My gains seem to have stopped for over 2 weeks now also(since I stopped the Dbol).
Your opinions/suggestions are welcome.
 
stucazz said:
PROGRESS UPDATE:

Well I'm on wk 8 of this 12 wk cycle, and so far I've only gained 10lbs. People seem to notice a weight gain however I know most of that is muscle. I must admit, I was expecting more gains that this, so I'm a little upset about it. My appetite sucks, and my strength is down, but I'm allergic, and the loss of strength may also be due to that. My sex drive is way up now, so at least I'm happy about that, it all improved drastically the minute i got off the Dbol. I got no ball shrinkage and no gyno either. The bloatness has also decreased since I stopped the Dbol. I hit a vein last week for the first time but I pulled out and reinjected, so no problems there. My gains seem to have stopped for over 2 weeks now also(since I stopped the Dbol).
Your opinions/suggestions are welcome.

Have you upped your calorie intake to compensate for the weight increase?

Mick
 
stucazz said:
I'll be starting my first Sustanon cycle in a couple weeks. This will be my firsttime injecting. Once I start I will post updates. I will be using a 2cc or 3cc syringe, 21 guage for draw and 23 guage for injection with a 1" needle.
I'd like to know if 250mgs for quad injections twice a week are ok or is the glute better? Also would adding 200mgs of Deca twice a week to the shot make it less painful? Anyone?[/QUOTE

Unless you're Gumby the quad is so easy, I don't know why anyone would shoot in the glute w/o a partner in crime. . .I've heard some uncomfortable stories about broken needles when attempting it alone. . .not my idea of a good time. Also, the quad is not all that painful. At the worst it feels like you took a good helmet shot to the thigh (if you've ever played football).

Have fun.
 
stucazz said:
PROGRESS UPDATE:

Well I'm on wk 8 of this 12 wk cycle, and so far I've only gained 10lbs. People seem to notice a weight gain however I know most of that is muscle. I must admit, I was expecting more gains that this, so I'm a little upset about it. My appetite sucks, and my strength is down, but I'm allergic, and the loss of strength may also be due to that. My sex drive is way up now, so at least I'm happy about that, it all improved drastically the minute i got off the Dbol. I got no ball shrinkage and no gyno either. The bloatness has also decreased since I stopped the Dbol. I hit a vein last week for the first time but I pulled out and reinjected, so no problems there. My gains seem to have stopped for over 2 weeks now also(since I stopped the Dbol).
Your opinions/suggestions are welcome.
8 weeks on sus and dbol and only 10lbs? Kind of makes yea mad huh? Considering how much you spent to get gains...I read people geting that much gain off 8 weeks at 250mg a week of sus by itself.As far as strength being down on test that doesnt seem right..Maybe the only thing that is real is the dbol,why your not seeing anything great when you stoped taking it.
I am a hard gainer but my body loves test..i gained 10lbs in 4 weeks just on M1T and that isnt event rated as worth taking...So its either your diet or your sus...Bet most of your gains was from the dbol...pound a week seems much to low....But hey 10 is better then nothing if you keep it....
 
Damm that chick in your avatar is sexy.




JoBu said:
Alternate betwen quads and glutes. I found quads easier but glutes less painful. It was kind of tough to reach around and stab my glute without jerking the pin around a lot. Quads were easy since I cound just sit on the couch and relax while I held a steady hand.
 
stucazz said:
Why do I need to inject another testosterone production enhancer??? I will be doing 500mgs of Test per week! The Nolva and Clomid should suffice no?
maybee so you can keep some gains and not have a hormone crash, maybee to get you natural test production up and going again. and you would get better results from the gear if inject in the glute right know because your glute are a bigger muscle.
 
I you shoot your self in the right part of your glute. delts or quads sustanon does not cause any pain at all from my past experience. The only thing that makes me sort is Propionte and after about a week of shooting that the pain is minimal.



stucazz said:
I'll be starting my first Sustanon cycle in a couple weeks. This will be my firsttime injecting. Once I start I will post updates. I will be using a 2cc or 3cc syringe, 21 guage for draw and 23 guage for injection with a 1" needle.
I'd like to know if 250mgs for quad injections twice a week are ok or is the glute better? Also would adding 200mgs of Deca twice a week to the shot make it less painful? Anyone?
 
prepare to grow like a weed (assuming your training and diet are in order)

Sustanon even by itself is good shit and 500mg/week is a moderate dose... wont shut you down and water retention shouldnt be too bad.
 
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