start or wait

[falcyou]

OK fellas, need my vet brother's solid advice.....

I am now 12 weeks off after a 18 week cycle of TEST E (600mg a week) and 8 weeks of Tren E 400mg a week). I feel WEAK as shit and tired all the time now and lost all my strength and have NNOOO sex drive.
My PCT wasn't solid as my HCG source fell through. I did 1 shot of 5,000 IU 8 days after last shot, then 2,500 4 days later and another 2,500 3 days after. (then I was fucking out!) I also ran Nolvadex for 12 days and showed no signs of gyno at all.

I am gonna post my blood lab results from July (right towards the middle of cycle) , then my last blood lab results (about 10 weeks off).
Should I wait till my natural TEST recovers to start again? What can I do to speed that process along? I'm just worried it could be WEEKS or MONTHS before it fully recovers, and I feel like complete shit in the mean time!!
than I'll also post what I can get my hands on and advice on how to start my next run. Thanks bros!! here we go:

7/6/2007 Blood Lab:
T4 Free (non-dialysis) = 1.6
Prolactin = 14.7
Estradiol = 76h
Ferritin = 159
Testosterone, total and free = 2,948h (yep, 2,948!)
% Free testosterone = 3.92h
Testosterone = 1,154.7h
T3 Free (non-dialysis) = 2.8
Cholesterol = 204
HDL Cholesterol = 16
LDL = 170

12/17 Blood Lab:
(Dr. did different testing for this follow-up)
Liver Profile = all normal ranges
Prolactin = 9.7
Testosterone, total and free = 187 L (huge difference!!)
% FREE testosterone = 1.60
Testosterone free = 29.8 L (another huge difference!!)

OK, now onto what I have access for on the next cycle. When should I start and what else do I need to add vets:
Tren Enanthate (3 vials of 10ml , 100mg p/ml)
Test Enanthate (3 vials of 10ml , 300mg p/ml)
Anavar (Oxandroloene) 200 5mg tabs
clenbuterol 100mcg/ml and ketotifen 1mg/ml = qty(3) 60ml vials
Letrozole 2.5mg/ml - (2) 30ml vials
Cabergoline qty(2) 30ml vials
Isotretinion (Accutane) - 20mg p/ml qty(2) 30ml vials

clearly I am gonna need a new route for some HCG to add for PCT, but am I missing anything else?

Thanks bro's!!!!

 

[chestrockwell420]

damn brotha,crazy results. the only thing i could suggest is you need to run clomid during pct.as far as when to run another cycle,ideally you want your own test production to get back to normal,but we all know how it is when it comes time to run. good luck to ya man. i did some blood work last week and im anxious to see what it says.,

 

[Varga]

If you want your own test production to come back I would stay off any potential cycles. If you decide to go on again is going to be tougher to come back to normal again....i'm sure you knew this

As far as I'm concerned with long cycles you need to do a longer and stronger P C T(I always do 2 P C T's-one right after and another 3-4 months later. And yea, you need lots of H C G. No H C G no long cycles!
After a long cycle if I were you I would do a short 6-8 weeks of fast acting stuff and mild, 2 compoiunds. Now, do this when you are recovered for 1-2 months.

I think right now you need to do another P C T for 4 weeks minimum, bro

 

[GUARDIAN]

stay off until you fully recover. otherwise your next pct might be even worse.

 

[needtogetaas]

stay off until you fully recover. otherwise your next PCT - post cycle therapy - might be even worse.

Yup. I would say the same. Maybe cycle with some dermacrine reg and sustain for a wile. http://www.primordialperformance.com/derm_sust_intro.cfm

 

[falcyou]

Thanks brothers....

Unfortunatley that was the advice I figured I'd get! LOL
Was dying to get back up to those 2,000+ test levels, but knew it probably wasn't the best idea to start cycling while my natural levels were below 200.

I have a wedding to go to in May at a resort that the entire old Highschool crew will be at, so i just need to be back to full form and ripped by then!! lol

OK, so assuming I get my hands on some HCG...you guys suggest I run HCG and clomid for 3 weeks and check the blood levels again? (that would put me on track of starting the new cycle in Feb then)

and when i start, what do you guys think for best cycle based on the goods that I got? I was thinking of trying ti get some Winny to add, but open to suggestions on stack (including doses and time frames based on my qty's i listed)....

Thanks my brothers

FALC

 

[needtogetarmy]

IMO you did a long cycle and I would run clomid at 100mg ED for 6-8 weeks. Also, HCG for the first two or three weeks would be prudent.

 

[GUARDIAN]

IMO you did a long cycle and I would run clomid at 100mg ED for 6-8 weeks. Also, HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - for the first two or three weeks would be prudent.

Solid advice.

 

[advanced-stealth]

Good reply.

IMO you did a long cycle and I would run clomid at 100mg ED for 6-8 weeks. Also, HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - for the first two or three weeks would be prudent.

 

[perryscoon]

IMO you did a long cycle and I would run clomid at 100mg ED for 6-8 weeks. Also, HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - for the first two or three weeks would be prudent.

That seems like a shitload of clomid! Is it safe to do that much?

 

[GUARDIAN]

That seems like a shitload of clomid! Is it safe to do that much?

he should be fine. he needs aggressive PCT to turn things around.

100mg ed is a typical dose for the 1st couple of weeks for pct.

 

[Varga]

Thanks brothers....

Unfortunatley that was the advice I figured I'd get! LOL
Was dying to get back up to those 2,000+ test levels, but knew it probably wasn't the best idea to start cycling while my natural levels were below 200.

I have a wedding to go to in May at a resort that the entire old Highschool crew will be at, so i just need to be back to full form and ripped by then!! lol

OK, so assuming I get my hands on some HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - ...you guys suggest I run HCG and clomid for 3 weeks and check the blood levels again? (that would put me on track of starting the new cycle in Feb then)

and when i start, what do you guys think for best cycle based on the goods that I got? I was thinking of trying ti get some Winstrol - stanozolol to add, but open to suggestions on stack (including doses and time frames based on my qty's i listed)....

Thanks my brothers

FALC

you can do H c g for 2weeks, 5000iu split at 1000iux5 OR 800iuX 6 EOD, clomid for 4-6 weeks-then wait 4 weeks and see if you recovered
In all honesty you might be able to do another cycle maybe April if all goes well

As for the cycle, how much experience you have with A A S?

 

[falcyou]

you can do H c g for 2weeks, 5000iu split at 1000iux5 OR 800iuX 6 EOD, clomid for 4-6 weeks-then wait 4 weeks and see if you recovered
In all honesty you might be able to do another cycle maybe April if all goes well
As for the cycle, how much experience you have with A A S?

Have done 5 cycles in all I would say.

first few were in my early 20's and were Test (500mg) and Decca (600mg)

My last 2 were Tren E and TEST E stacks around the ranges of 500mg-600mg of test and 400-500mg of Tren.
Stats:
31 YO
5'9"
168lbs current (was at 181 and LEAN in Oct at tail end of that last stack)
current BF% is 11.5% or so (was at 9.7% in Oct finishing tren/test stack)

I have a doc appointment tomorrow. I wonder if there is any chance in hell he will write me a script for Clomid. (he does know that i do cycles)

Guys, any advice for picking my energy and overall attitude up? this 187 test level makes me feel sooooo week and my workouts or horrible. Bench went from 305lb in Oct, to 195lb or so now. I have tried all the things like SUPERPUMP and NoEXPLODE, ect...still feel tired and weak.
I'll give DERMA a try, but curious what else you guys think to help bridge me until my next real run.

FALC

 

[needtogetaas]

Have done 5 cycles in all I would say.

first few were in my early 20's and were Test (500mg) and Decca (600mg)

My last 2 were trenbolone E and testosterone enanthate stacks around the ranges of 500mg-600mg of test and 400-500mg of Tren.
Stats:
31 YO
5'9"
168lbs current (was at 181 and LEAN in Oct at tail end of that last stack)
current BF% is 11.5% or so (was at 9.7% in Oct finishing trenbolone/test stack)

I have a doc appointment tomorrow. I wonder if there is any chance in hell he will write me a script for Clomid. (he does know that i do cycles)

Guys, any advice for picking my energy and overall attitude up? this 187 test level makes me feel sooooo week and my workouts or horrible. Bench went from 305lb in Oct, to 195lb or so now. I have tried all the things like SUPERPUMP and NoEXPLODE, ect...still feel tired and weak.
I'll give DERMA a try, but curious what else you guys think to help bridge me until my next real run.

FALC

fuck thats a drop bro. I would just look into hrt my man.

 

[littleb]

First off, in the second set of blood work what were your cholesterol levels?? because ldl was high and hdl low in first set, I would get that back into normal levels b4 starting up again 4 sure.....

I cant agree with 100mg of clomid for 6-8 weeks,, too much IMO..

I would try to run another shorter pct mixed in with some otc supps. tribulis, zma for sure.. and myself personally would try 50mg clomid 20 mg noladex for 30 days with the above mentioned otc supps..

But when you get a chance post up your cholesterol levels as of last test, because you DO NOT want to jump back on with levels already in the dumper...

 

[falcyou]

First off, in the second set of blood work what were your cholesterol levels?? because ldl was high and hdl low in first set, I would get that back into normal levels b4 starting up again 4 sure.....

I cant agree with 100mg of clomid for 6-8 weeks,, too much IMO..

I would try to run another shorter PCT - post cycle therapy - mixed in with some otc supps. tribulis, zma for sure.. and myself personally would try 50mg clomid 20 mg noladex for 30 days with the above mentioned otc supps..

But when you get a chance post up your cholesterol levels as of last test, because you DO NOT want to jump back on with levels already in the dumper...

for whatever reason, the doc didn't include the cholesterol on the last test. I see him again today to actually discuss the latest labs, so I'll ask him ti write ne another order for the cholesterol and let you all know the results in a few days.
I do know my doc doesn't do HRT or anything like that, so I assume I would need him to give me a referral somewhere based on my low test levels?

In the mean time, I think I'll bundle all the advice I got here and out my next cycle on hold until at least 30-45 days, while doing Clomid 100mg the first few weeks, then dropping to 50mg the remaining...along with low doses of Nolva and HCG.

thanks brothers!!! Hopefully I am good to startu by 2nd or 3rd week in Feb, as I need to be in tip top shape by May 15th!! lol

 

[bsdgeek]

dude, ever thought about HRT?? you qualify for it with those numbers, you could get the script, not take it, and you have legit pharma test. just an idea.

 

[bsdgeek]

IMO you did a long cycle and I would run clomid at 100mg ED for 6-8 weeks. Also, HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - for the first two or three weeks would be prudent.

yep

 

[falcyou]

dude, ever thought about HRT?? you qualify for it with those numbers, you could get the script, not take it, and you have legit pharma test. just an idea.

Yeah, I'm gonna ask my doc about it today. (appointment is in about an hour!!)
I don't think he does anything like that (although he is sports medicine) , but I'm sure he can refer me to a specialist or something with those shitty numbers.

wonder how much they'd prescribe for me.

forgive me for the ignorance, but how is HRT different from just going on my own TEST cycle again? Isn't HRT just percribed pharma TEST to raise my levels?

 

[thebadguy54]

Yeah, I'm gonna ask my doc about it today. (appointment is in about an hour!!)
I don't think he does anything like that (although he is sports medicine) , but I'm sure he can refer me to a specialist or something with those shitty numbers.

wonder how much they'd prescribe for me.

forgive me for the ignorance, but how is HRT different from just going on my own TEST cycle again? Isn't HRT just percribed pharma TEST to raise my levels?

It's paid for by your insurance!

I'm in the same boat as you bro and I made a thread just like this one last week.
Check it out if you like:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/steroids-discussion-forum/too-soon-start-again-577475-3.html

It's basically more people just saying we should wait. My plan for the whole year is now messed up... but I'm still waiting.

 

[littleb]

Ok bro get back with the cholesterol levels when you get em, thats important b4 you get back on.. My advice would still be the pct i said earlier, I really dont like high dose clomid for any length of time,, too many possible sides,, and I do not think its that much of a difference to warrent the higher dose,,,,, dont forget clomid normally only a 5-10 day dose for its intended use ---- now you start taking it at 100mgs for 6to 8 weeks the sides are going to be there....

I never have had side effects from clomid when probably half this board has, I feel its because i dont front load just 50mg for 20-30 days JMO...

good luck bro let us know you c levels when you get em

 

[falcyou]

Ok bro get back with the cholesterol levels when you get em, thats important b4 you get back on.. My advice would still be the PCT - post cycle therapy - i said earlier, I really dont like high dose clomid for any length of time,, too many possible sides,, and I do not think its that much of a difference to warrent the higher dose,,,,, dont forget clomid normally only a 5-10 day dose for its intended use ---- now you start taking it at 100mgs for 6to 8 weeks the sides are going to be there....

I never have had side effects from clomid when probably half this board has, I feel its because i dont front load just 50mg for 20-30 days JMO...

good luck bro let us know you c levels when you get em

OK bro's, back from the doc with an update....

he prescribed me Clomid 50MG x 12 pills with 2 refills.
(He was totally cool and will refill it if I need more)
he said to do something like 50mg for 5 days, then 2 days off...ect
or he said to so 25mg everyday (which according to most advice on this board is too low)
I am gonna do the 100mg that 8and20 (by the way, if that avatar is you...you are shredded bro) suggested for the 1st week, then drop to 50mg a day for 3 weeks.
He said he would write me a scriot for HCG, but that he was cautious because he is also the sports med doc for a professional sports team here...so he is regulated and watched over much more than most. That being said, he called in a referral to me to a anti-aging specialist who is certified to treat and write TEST perscriptions and HCG and all. I have an appointment with that doc next week. He said he would write me a script for an HCG pellet that can time release 800-1500IU every day for 8 days. I guess it's a 1 time injection pellet in your glute. fuck, i'll try it!

another update...

He reviewed my lab results from June as well. (I originally posted JUly and Dec)
In June, my total free test was 3,670

I'll let you boys know what my cholesterol comes back at and what this anti-age doc says.

 

[Varga]

H C G will def help along with clomid at 50mg ED. I would take clomid for another 3-4 weeks after the H C G.
As for the mood improvment, take B-complex, St John's Wort, Fish oil, flax oil, and even Dostinex if you can get a hold of it. increases your dopamine levels which is going to make you happier
Have you tried creatine?

Just as a side note.....avoid ending cycles on D e c a/ T R e N. If you use them take a maintenance dose of test or primo for a month or longer after that till the stuff is completely out of your system. Bringing hormons close to baseline improves recovery after a cycle

In the gym start lifting heavy and eat plenty of food, keep your workouts short and do 2-3 warm up sets and one heavy set that's it!.....even if you put on some fat it does not matter, do cardio. The more food you eat and lift heavy your body will try to respond. Don;t be hanged up on being trim and maintain low bf
Once you start on H C G if you do the above mentioned things you can recover some of the gains that you lost. H C G will boost your test levels take advantage of it and put on 5-10lb of BW.