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I cut and pasted this from Anabolic Extreme because it is such a great read. Of course, some will disagree, and there are a few items I question, but overall it is very informative.
Blade Stack Guide V1.1
I thought I would give you a revised edition of my original post - since there appears certain questions
continually that were left unanswered in the first one. I expect that further revision will also be posted, if
and when time allows.
For those of you who write me on cycle advice (which is now an increasing daily amount), realize that I
am somewhat short on time and even though I try to answer as many as possible it might take a while
anyway. I would also rather that you post questions on this board, since there are lots of other
knowledgeable guys here - and so that others may benefit from the advice. But if there are any specifics
(troubleshooting, training, diet etc.) you'd rather that I answer personally - I will of course help you as
much as time allows.
Let's roughly classify steroids in two ways - Androgen Receptor (AR) mediated, and non-AR mediated.
AR-mediated action occurs on the cellular level, affecting DNA transcript thus stimulating growth.
Non-AR mediated mechanisms are various (and some are not understood yet), but one would be
inhibiting the effects that glucocorticoids have upon muscle tissue. In other words, they prevent
glucocorticoids from increasing glutamine synthetase and causing muscle tissue breakdown. This would
be an anti-catabolic activity.
So first of all you want a steroidal compound that binds to the AR, such as Testosterone, Deca,
Trenbolone etc. Their affinity or binding to the AR is different, making Deca and Tren more effective at
the AR on a mg per mg basis than Testosterone. My view is that 500mg/week alone of Testosterone will
not even be close to saturation of the receptor, so let's consider this for a second…
The number of receptors is related to genetics and muscle mass, so someone 300lbs would need more
than a 200lbs guy to saturate the receptors, right? There is also evidence that high levels of androgens
in the body, upregulates or sensitizes the receptor, as will some steroids (which make some stacks
more efficient than others), and of course heavy weight training - IMPORTANT! This last issue is the
reason why you should probably train for a few years to get closer to what you can achieve naturally,
since this will make more AR available for growth potential.
You can not argue with 1000mg of Testosterone being more effective than 500mg, even in beginners.
And the fact is that your 1st, or virginal cycle will be your best one since you are further away from your
genetic potential than someone with a few cycles under his belt. Saying that you should limit dosage on
your first cycle for allowing higher dosage in later cycles just doesn't sound right to me - after all, a
gram a week would get you faster to your genetic potential if you're not already there.
Going beyond this level, however - say someone who is 40lbs over what he could achieve naturally -
would need this much just to sustain what he already has. But his receptors will also be more sensitized
and upregulated both due to more muscle mass, more training, and higher levels of androgens in his
body on previous cycles. This will make it both more effective - as well as possible - to go with higher
dosages. I find that in the long term, after ending drug use, he'll end up splitting the difference between
his drug-assisted peak and what he could have achieved naturally. He'll be able to maintain at least 1/3
and probably 1/2 of his gains.
This is probably due to increased nucleation of muscle cells and to differentiation of satellite cells into
mature muscle cells. Both these changes are permanent and, in my opinion, give a lasting advantage to
the athlete.
The KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) is hard to contradict, since a gram a week of T will probably
give the greatest gains via AR-mechanism, and some additional non-AR mediated effects. Of course,
adding in another AR-agonist like Deca at 400mg/week (which I consider close to maximum considering
progesteronic activity), with somewhat higher affinity for the AR - you reduce the dosage of T. Deca, of
course, doesn't aromatize much - but you still get water-retention due to it's progestronic activity. You
can reduce this by using Winstrol, which appears to block this effect almost entirely. Deca is also known
for being good for the joints.
That being said - I personally stay away from Deca for various reasons:
1. Although being a more potent AR-agonist than Testosterone, it is only considered half as effective on
a mg per mg basis. This is most likely due to its lack of non-AR mediated mechanisms which
Testosterone have. Stacking with D-bol and/or Winstrol is a good idea.
2. An important non-AR mediated mechanism is Central Nervous System (CNS) stimulation, which Deca
lacks - something that is most noticeable in erection problems commonly known with it. This would also
make it a poor 'strength' drug (although I don't like that term too much). Most definitely stack it with
Winstrol, Test or D-bol for this reason alone.
3. It is notorious for its detectability on drug tests up to a year after use.
I would rather prefer stacking Testosterone (if at 500mg/week) with Trenbolone at 75-100mg/EOD.
Maybe adding some Dianabol here (which works primarily via non-AR action) gives a great stack - at
40-50mg/day in divided dosages. D-bol also works synergistically with both Testosterone and Deca, but
limit its use to 4 weeks since it is 17 alpha alkylated and will be toxic to the liver. As for other orals, on a
mg for mg basis I use the following for comparing effectiveness:
Dianabol (methandrostenolone)… 20-35 mg, Winstrol (stanozolol)… 30-65 mg, Anavar (oxandrolone)…
20-35 mg, Primobolan (methenolone acetate)… 100-200 mg, Halotestin (fluoxymesterone)… 15-25 mg,
Methyltestosterone… 75 mg, Anadrol (Oxymetholone) 50mg.
Using a constant dosage of a long-acting esters such as Sustanon, Enanthate or Cypionate will cause
levels in the body to accumulate slowly to a peak at the 2 week point. Doing a double or triple injection
on Day 1 - or using propionate during this time period will get levels high initially, thus imitating levels at
the 2 week point. Levels will steadily decrease for about 2 weeks after the last injection too, depending
on your dosage - so you could use propionate for making the transition from high levels/gaining to low
levels/recovery as fast as possible. Another choice would be to use Primobolan for coming off, since it
has low inhibition of the HPTA axis and subsequently might solidify gains post-cycle.
Using Testosterone and D-bol will cause various problems such as water-retention, inhibition of natural
T production, and gyno. Clomid is an agonist to the estrogen-receptor, as well as stimulating LH release
and improving blood lipid profile, but does not produce an estrogenic response. So when you're using
steroidal compounds that aromatize, Clomid will reduce the side effects associated with this
(water-retention, gyno etc. ), as well as reducing testicular atrophy. This happens from day 1 of using
such steroids, so why anyone thinks using Clomid AFTER 8-12 weeks of the estrogen floating around in
your body will help - is beyond me...
Let me clarify the HCG issue - I personally don't recommend or even use HCG, but this is the way to do
it. The higher levels of estrogen is not an issue at only 500IU - they appear in research at 10 times this
dose...
HCG stimulates LH release and raises estrogen and testosterone levels to the point where it inhibits
recovery. It is obviously a bad idea to use it post-cycle then, isn't it?
The point of using HCG is to avoid testicular atrophy (ball-shrinkage), so low levels DURING the cycle is
better (why wait until it has already happened instead of preventing it from ever happening?) The high
levels of estrogen (and negative feedback) associated with HCG will also be reduced with lower
dosages, but should in any circumstance stop prior to transitioning into the recovery period.
That being said, I would still recommend Clomid use instead of or combined with HCG, as Clomid
certainly stimulates LH release by inhibiting negative feedback to the hypothalamus and pituitary. Clomid
DURING a cycle decreases water-retention and gyno due to its estrogen blocking mechanism while
stimulating some LH release (reducing testicular atrophy), and after a cycle it will promote faster
recovery of the HPTA axis.
I prefer to use it during a cycle of heavy aromatizing compounds (Testosterone and D-bol f.ex.) for the
reasons above, but if cost is an issue (which I doubt since Clomid is so cheap anyway) you can save it
for after the cycle.
The chemical structure and action of Nolvadex and Clomid are very similar, but Clomid is more effective
while also having LH stimulating properties that Nolvadex is lacking. I see no use for Nolvadex if you are
already using Clomid.
But none of these measures prevent the downregulation of the hypothalamus and pituitary, so limiting a
cycle to 8-10 weeks is still necessary to insure proper recovery of the HPTA axis.
Water-retention in the first weeks of the cycle is not necessarily evil, since it will add to your strength -
but towards the end it has been my experience that hardening up will solidify gains more, being more
healthy, and giving you a better appearance. Note that some bodybuilders think certain steroids work
better based solely on the weight they gain. In actuality, they could be just retaining a lot of water along
with the muscle gains. These are the same guys who think they "lose" a lot of muscle after their cycle is
completed, when they actually just lost much of the water they'd been holding.
So a good choice for this phase of the cycle would be a transition to drugs like Winstrol at 50mg/day
(and I will probably never inject Winny again since it has the same effect if you drink it in divided doses
throughout the day), Primo (at least 400mg, and as much as 1000mg/week although expensive),
Trenbolone is an excellent steroid at 75-100mg/day, and is as mentioned also considered 3 times as
potent at the AR compared to equal dosages of Test.
With Testosterone as the base, I say 1000mg/week being optimal even for a beginner at 200lbs and
maybe a 2-3 years of consistent training. Adding in other steroids that binds equally or better to the AR
(Deca, Tren) - try to achieve the same total dosage while considering mg per mg effectiveness. Adding
in non-AR mediated drugs would not necessarily mean that you need to lower T dosage, and consider
synergistic benefits by using two compounds that complement each other to add to the effectiveness of
the cycle.
Some of you might think "hey, a gram a week - I used 250mg/week on my first cycle and GOT HUGE" or
"my first cycle was 5 D-bol a day, and I BLEW UP".
Yes - that might be true, but what if you had used 4 times as much in the first case, or stacked with
400mg/week of Deca in the second case?
250mg/week of Testosterone is barely above the replacement dose used in male hormone therapy.
Double that to 500mg and things start to happen...go to 1000mg, and while side effects won't noticably
increase - the extra growth you will experience tells you that what I say has some truth to it. Not that
the dose/response curve is linear, because you can saturate the AR - but there is an optimal dose where
you may experience further gains due to AR-upregulation and sensitization.
250mg/week will make you grow - hell, they can cure cancer with sugar pills too (can you say
PLA-CE-BO?), but think about this for a second - when you're on a cycle, what is your mindset? You
KNOW you have steroids in your body, so now you have to bust your ass in the gym while eating
everything in sight, agree? Would you consider then that the gains you had was because you for once
gave the body what it needed to grow: TRAINING and FOOD in the proper amounts!!
Going beyond your genetic potential, more training and steroid experience, higher (lean) body mass, and
experiencing lower response to steroids (genetically fewer AR) = higher total dosage.
Cycle length: 2 week cycles takes advantage of the fact that while the hypothalamus is inhibited, the
pituitary is actually sensitized to the LHRH released by the hypothalamus up to the two week point.
Recovery will be a lot faster if steroid levels are low at this point, so short-acting compounds can be
used that will clear the system - or injection of long-acting compounds on Day 1 only.
From 3-7 weeks is where a lot of interesting things happen in the body that primes it for further growth,
so I really think 8 weeks is the minimal here. Beyond 12 weeks, however, the hypothalamus and
pituitary have been shutdown for such a long time that recovery might be a problem. I usually
recommend 10 weeks as optimal.
So let's look at a specific 8-week cycle which I've seen amazing results with (3 other guys, not myself -
allow for dosage variations related to steroid experience and LBM)
Week 1-6: Sustanon 1000mg/week (1000mg Day 1 and after that divided doses OR up to 100mg/day of
Propionate week 1-2 to get levels up initially)
Week 1-4: D-bol 40-50mg/day
Week 5-8: Tren 75mg/day OR Primo 400mg/week
OR Propionate 100mg/day in week 7-8.
Week 7-8: Winstrol 50mg/day
Remember that these individuals are above 200lbs with none or just a couple of cycles before, along
with at least 3 years of consistent training. Adjust dosages accordingly. Gains from 30-40lbs retained!
This is basically what I consider when designing cycles for athletes, and I know many of you will have
conflicting views - but I have both research and practical experience to back this up.
I don't take everything I read for granted - real world experience beat the books any day IMO. This is
something being an engineer has taught me as well.
I will in the future write something on my views of training and diet - suffice it to say that anabolics is a
poor excuse for not training and eating correctly!
Blade
Blade Stack Guide V1.1
I thought I would give you a revised edition of my original post - since there appears certain questions
continually that were left unanswered in the first one. I expect that further revision will also be posted, if
and when time allows.
For those of you who write me on cycle advice (which is now an increasing daily amount), realize that I
am somewhat short on time and even though I try to answer as many as possible it might take a while
anyway. I would also rather that you post questions on this board, since there are lots of other
knowledgeable guys here - and so that others may benefit from the advice. But if there are any specifics
(troubleshooting, training, diet etc.) you'd rather that I answer personally - I will of course help you as
much as time allows.
Let's roughly classify steroids in two ways - Androgen Receptor (AR) mediated, and non-AR mediated.
AR-mediated action occurs on the cellular level, affecting DNA transcript thus stimulating growth.
Non-AR mediated mechanisms are various (and some are not understood yet), but one would be
inhibiting the effects that glucocorticoids have upon muscle tissue. In other words, they prevent
glucocorticoids from increasing glutamine synthetase and causing muscle tissue breakdown. This would
be an anti-catabolic activity.
So first of all you want a steroidal compound that binds to the AR, such as Testosterone, Deca,
Trenbolone etc. Their affinity or binding to the AR is different, making Deca and Tren more effective at
the AR on a mg per mg basis than Testosterone. My view is that 500mg/week alone of Testosterone will
not even be close to saturation of the receptor, so let's consider this for a second…
The number of receptors is related to genetics and muscle mass, so someone 300lbs would need more
than a 200lbs guy to saturate the receptors, right? There is also evidence that high levels of androgens
in the body, upregulates or sensitizes the receptor, as will some steroids (which make some stacks
more efficient than others), and of course heavy weight training - IMPORTANT! This last issue is the
reason why you should probably train for a few years to get closer to what you can achieve naturally,
since this will make more AR available for growth potential.
You can not argue with 1000mg of Testosterone being more effective than 500mg, even in beginners.
And the fact is that your 1st, or virginal cycle will be your best one since you are further away from your
genetic potential than someone with a few cycles under his belt. Saying that you should limit dosage on
your first cycle for allowing higher dosage in later cycles just doesn't sound right to me - after all, a
gram a week would get you faster to your genetic potential if you're not already there.
Going beyond this level, however - say someone who is 40lbs over what he could achieve naturally -
would need this much just to sustain what he already has. But his receptors will also be more sensitized
and upregulated both due to more muscle mass, more training, and higher levels of androgens in his
body on previous cycles. This will make it both more effective - as well as possible - to go with higher
dosages. I find that in the long term, after ending drug use, he'll end up splitting the difference between
his drug-assisted peak and what he could have achieved naturally. He'll be able to maintain at least 1/3
and probably 1/2 of his gains.
This is probably due to increased nucleation of muscle cells and to differentiation of satellite cells into
mature muscle cells. Both these changes are permanent and, in my opinion, give a lasting advantage to
the athlete.
The KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) is hard to contradict, since a gram a week of T will probably
give the greatest gains via AR-mechanism, and some additional non-AR mediated effects. Of course,
adding in another AR-agonist like Deca at 400mg/week (which I consider close to maximum considering
progesteronic activity), with somewhat higher affinity for the AR - you reduce the dosage of T. Deca, of
course, doesn't aromatize much - but you still get water-retention due to it's progestronic activity. You
can reduce this by using Winstrol, which appears to block this effect almost entirely. Deca is also known
for being good for the joints.
That being said - I personally stay away from Deca for various reasons:
1. Although being a more potent AR-agonist than Testosterone, it is only considered half as effective on
a mg per mg basis. This is most likely due to its lack of non-AR mediated mechanisms which
Testosterone have. Stacking with D-bol and/or Winstrol is a good idea.
2. An important non-AR mediated mechanism is Central Nervous System (CNS) stimulation, which Deca
lacks - something that is most noticeable in erection problems commonly known with it. This would also
make it a poor 'strength' drug (although I don't like that term too much). Most definitely stack it with
Winstrol, Test or D-bol for this reason alone.
3. It is notorious for its detectability on drug tests up to a year after use.
I would rather prefer stacking Testosterone (if at 500mg/week) with Trenbolone at 75-100mg/EOD.
Maybe adding some Dianabol here (which works primarily via non-AR action) gives a great stack - at
40-50mg/day in divided dosages. D-bol also works synergistically with both Testosterone and Deca, but
limit its use to 4 weeks since it is 17 alpha alkylated and will be toxic to the liver. As for other orals, on a
mg for mg basis I use the following for comparing effectiveness:
Dianabol (methandrostenolone)… 20-35 mg, Winstrol (stanozolol)… 30-65 mg, Anavar (oxandrolone)…
20-35 mg, Primobolan (methenolone acetate)… 100-200 mg, Halotestin (fluoxymesterone)… 15-25 mg,
Methyltestosterone… 75 mg, Anadrol (Oxymetholone) 50mg.
Using a constant dosage of a long-acting esters such as Sustanon, Enanthate or Cypionate will cause
levels in the body to accumulate slowly to a peak at the 2 week point. Doing a double or triple injection
on Day 1 - or using propionate during this time period will get levels high initially, thus imitating levels at
the 2 week point. Levels will steadily decrease for about 2 weeks after the last injection too, depending
on your dosage - so you could use propionate for making the transition from high levels/gaining to low
levels/recovery as fast as possible. Another choice would be to use Primobolan for coming off, since it
has low inhibition of the HPTA axis and subsequently might solidify gains post-cycle.
Using Testosterone and D-bol will cause various problems such as water-retention, inhibition of natural
T production, and gyno. Clomid is an agonist to the estrogen-receptor, as well as stimulating LH release
and improving blood lipid profile, but does not produce an estrogenic response. So when you're using
steroidal compounds that aromatize, Clomid will reduce the side effects associated with this
(water-retention, gyno etc. ), as well as reducing testicular atrophy. This happens from day 1 of using
such steroids, so why anyone thinks using Clomid AFTER 8-12 weeks of the estrogen floating around in
your body will help - is beyond me...
Let me clarify the HCG issue - I personally don't recommend or even use HCG, but this is the way to do
it. The higher levels of estrogen is not an issue at only 500IU - they appear in research at 10 times this
dose...
HCG stimulates LH release and raises estrogen and testosterone levels to the point where it inhibits
recovery. It is obviously a bad idea to use it post-cycle then, isn't it?
The point of using HCG is to avoid testicular atrophy (ball-shrinkage), so low levels DURING the cycle is
better (why wait until it has already happened instead of preventing it from ever happening?) The high
levels of estrogen (and negative feedback) associated with HCG will also be reduced with lower
dosages, but should in any circumstance stop prior to transitioning into the recovery period.
That being said, I would still recommend Clomid use instead of or combined with HCG, as Clomid
certainly stimulates LH release by inhibiting negative feedback to the hypothalamus and pituitary. Clomid
DURING a cycle decreases water-retention and gyno due to its estrogen blocking mechanism while
stimulating some LH release (reducing testicular atrophy), and after a cycle it will promote faster
recovery of the HPTA axis.
I prefer to use it during a cycle of heavy aromatizing compounds (Testosterone and D-bol f.ex.) for the
reasons above, but if cost is an issue (which I doubt since Clomid is so cheap anyway) you can save it
for after the cycle.
The chemical structure and action of Nolvadex and Clomid are very similar, but Clomid is more effective
while also having LH stimulating properties that Nolvadex is lacking. I see no use for Nolvadex if you are
already using Clomid.
But none of these measures prevent the downregulation of the hypothalamus and pituitary, so limiting a
cycle to 8-10 weeks is still necessary to insure proper recovery of the HPTA axis.
Water-retention in the first weeks of the cycle is not necessarily evil, since it will add to your strength -
but towards the end it has been my experience that hardening up will solidify gains more, being more
healthy, and giving you a better appearance. Note that some bodybuilders think certain steroids work
better based solely on the weight they gain. In actuality, they could be just retaining a lot of water along
with the muscle gains. These are the same guys who think they "lose" a lot of muscle after their cycle is
completed, when they actually just lost much of the water they'd been holding.
So a good choice for this phase of the cycle would be a transition to drugs like Winstrol at 50mg/day
(and I will probably never inject Winny again since it has the same effect if you drink it in divided doses
throughout the day), Primo (at least 400mg, and as much as 1000mg/week although expensive),
Trenbolone is an excellent steroid at 75-100mg/day, and is as mentioned also considered 3 times as
potent at the AR compared to equal dosages of Test.
With Testosterone as the base, I say 1000mg/week being optimal even for a beginner at 200lbs and
maybe a 2-3 years of consistent training. Adding in other steroids that binds equally or better to the AR
(Deca, Tren) - try to achieve the same total dosage while considering mg per mg effectiveness. Adding
in non-AR mediated drugs would not necessarily mean that you need to lower T dosage, and consider
synergistic benefits by using two compounds that complement each other to add to the effectiveness of
the cycle.
Some of you might think "hey, a gram a week - I used 250mg/week on my first cycle and GOT HUGE" or
"my first cycle was 5 D-bol a day, and I BLEW UP".
Yes - that might be true, but what if you had used 4 times as much in the first case, or stacked with
400mg/week of Deca in the second case?
250mg/week of Testosterone is barely above the replacement dose used in male hormone therapy.
Double that to 500mg and things start to happen...go to 1000mg, and while side effects won't noticably
increase - the extra growth you will experience tells you that what I say has some truth to it. Not that
the dose/response curve is linear, because you can saturate the AR - but there is an optimal dose where
you may experience further gains due to AR-upregulation and sensitization.
250mg/week will make you grow - hell, they can cure cancer with sugar pills too (can you say
PLA-CE-BO?), but think about this for a second - when you're on a cycle, what is your mindset? You
KNOW you have steroids in your body, so now you have to bust your ass in the gym while eating
everything in sight, agree? Would you consider then that the gains you had was because you for once
gave the body what it needed to grow: TRAINING and FOOD in the proper amounts!!
Going beyond your genetic potential, more training and steroid experience, higher (lean) body mass, and
experiencing lower response to steroids (genetically fewer AR) = higher total dosage.
Cycle length: 2 week cycles takes advantage of the fact that while the hypothalamus is inhibited, the
pituitary is actually sensitized to the LHRH released by the hypothalamus up to the two week point.
Recovery will be a lot faster if steroid levels are low at this point, so short-acting compounds can be
used that will clear the system - or injection of long-acting compounds on Day 1 only.
From 3-7 weeks is where a lot of interesting things happen in the body that primes it for further growth,
so I really think 8 weeks is the minimal here. Beyond 12 weeks, however, the hypothalamus and
pituitary have been shutdown for such a long time that recovery might be a problem. I usually
recommend 10 weeks as optimal.
So let's look at a specific 8-week cycle which I've seen amazing results with (3 other guys, not myself -
allow for dosage variations related to steroid experience and LBM)
Week 1-6: Sustanon 1000mg/week (1000mg Day 1 and after that divided doses OR up to 100mg/day of
Propionate week 1-2 to get levels up initially)
Week 1-4: D-bol 40-50mg/day
Week 5-8: Tren 75mg/day OR Primo 400mg/week
OR Propionate 100mg/day in week 7-8.
Week 7-8: Winstrol 50mg/day
Remember that these individuals are above 200lbs with none or just a couple of cycles before, along
with at least 3 years of consistent training. Adjust dosages accordingly. Gains from 30-40lbs retained!
This is basically what I consider when designing cycles for athletes, and I know many of you will have
conflicting views - but I have both research and practical experience to back this up.
I don't take everything I read for granted - real world experience beat the books any day IMO. This is
something being an engineer has taught me as well.
I will in the future write something on my views of training and diet - suffice it to say that anabolics is a
poor excuse for not training and eating correctly!
Blade
