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nvrbuffenuff_girl
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I don't believe in spanking. At least not children.
Spank
- Thread starter nvrbuffenuff_girl
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nvrbuffenuff_girl
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biteme said:
No you do not ever HAVE to spank a child for their own good.
I strongly disbelieve in spanking. I will never spank my child. Now that doesn't go to say that my husband can't spank our child. But as far as me doing it, NEVER.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
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distanced said:
NO!
nvrbuffenuff_girl
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distanced said:
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Oh...
I see.
Sorry, I guess.
I see.
Sorry, I guess.
Mandinka2
New member
Thats fucked up , i wouldnt let any adult raise a finger to my child , much less someone who is supposed to love and care for the child like a parent. Do u know how much that confuses the kid? Hitting a child is only an abdication of responsibility. As a parent im also the childs' guard ian.nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
MrMuscle
New member
Spanking might be necessary. But im not talking about throwing them a beating. But if you start when they are real young, and just give them a ligh slap on the wrist, i dunno. I just see alot of spoiled rotten kids around. Which never do as their parents tell them.
We have a day care thing at my gym. And some of the parents has done a suck ass job. I dont think its right when everytime they bring their kids everybody else in the gym has to listen to their yelling and screaming for as long as the parents are there.
We have a day care thing at my gym. And some of the parents has done a suck ass job. I dont think its right when everytime they bring their kids everybody else in the gym has to listen to their yelling and screaming for as long as the parents are there.
the nature boy
New member
slickdadd said:
slickdadd, asking the tough questions.
Mandinka2
New member
Sorry Bro , but in this instance I dont believe in any exceptions , Ive seen examples of kids raised without any violence at all in their lives , just patient loving parents. They are so much more settled emotionally. I tell you this as a kid who is from a family where the males were beaten extensively by both parents for generations. If you "have" to beat ur kids , ur doin a VERY lousy job as a parent.MrMuscle said:
If u tell people that a slap here and there is ok , ur just gonna allow some folks an excuse for wider "interpretation" of best practice. People need to be more honest with themselves these days , when a little guy/girl's whole emotional life is determined to a large extent by their first 5 years of life (Freud) then its too much responsibility to fuck with.
MrMuscle
New member
i dunno man.
i know im not ready for parenthood myself.
and i dont doubt its tough.
but then what are people doing wrong when theire kids dont listen to their parents at all?
i've been thrown down stairs and shit myself. and i was a good kid. and i never want that to happend to any other kids.
i know im not ready for parenthood myself.
and i dont doubt its tough.
but then what are people doing wrong when theire kids dont listen to their parents at all?
i've been thrown down stairs and shit myself. and i was a good kid. and i never want that to happend to any other kids.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
biteme said:
I find myself agreeing with you on this one. Kids have to learn that there is right and wrong........unfortunately it is hard to explain the situation to somebody who is so young that they still have an ego-centric view of the world. However, a physical punishment that is short and to the point gets the idea across.
Of course, there are limits to what you should do........and as the child gets older and more cognitively adept then reasoning should take over where possible.
Why do I think this? A school where kids have all sorts of parents. The kids that are little bastards who think they are untouchable almost always turn out to come from families no physical punishment does not happen EVER. The kids who are hit day in, day out are sad cases........they are fearless and cause problems left right and centre.....and are usually little thugs. The parents who operate between the boundaries and punish kids when necessary but still let the kids know that they are loved and the reason behind the punishment produce great kids........very well balanced.
Mandinka2
New member
I think uve got it backwards there my friend , I think that the younger the kid , the less physical the punishment should be. I have some personal friends here in Germany and it never fails to amaze me how confident and well-adjusted their kids are. Whenever the kids flip out , the parents just take it in their stride and resist any temptation to hit. Thats just such an easy cop-out , "if u dont shut up , ur gonna get beat". Kids aren't born bad , they develop shit habits from what they see around 'em , often they are just lookin for attention , when they get that kind of love and attention from their parents , the results are amazing.Imnotdutch said:
Well i'll give u this , you've got the rough end of the stick , but I disagree with your empirical evidence , my own mother , who has taught for 43 years is now a firm advocate of the principle that beating a child is always wrong. My father beat and humiliated me to such an extent that we will never have any relationship , not that I think he is capable of such a thing. His sister did the same thing to her sons and is even a worse state as one of the boys' is involved in crime. simply put , little kids<5 DO NOT KNOW that they are loved and are always questioning that. As i matured past say 14 I was rarely hit (I was 2 big for one thing) and some people were forced to reason with me whether they liked it or not , not surprisingly my grades exploded and eventually I topped both my school and my town in my years' A-Level exams. My parents have tried to make amends for what they did earlier in life (after I left home) but we all know its too late , they fucked up , some things you can never get back , even if I love em now.Imnotdutch said:
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
Mandinka2 said:
Mandinka2
New member
Bro (and u are my Bro), no such thing as too young to reason with , a young mind is like a sponge ,u see that face full of wonder and u know thats just an empty vessel waitin for input. Kid do mostly everything for their approval (re: attention/love) of their folks , u just gotta send em the right signals (that they get ur attention much more by doin good things by doin the other) and they're right there in the palm of ur hand.Imnotdutch said:
We do have pretty similar backgrounds , I even taught for a summer in a disadvantaged high-school , I was iron hard , just like my old teachers had been with me , in fact I was even warned about it. Didnt matter to me , most fucked up kids were my best friends by the time I left , poor guy was takin care of his drunk alcoholic Mom , no chance in life , no love - fucked before he had a chance. Ur problem is never the kids , they are the symptoms of unworthy parents.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Mandinka2 said:
I'm not saying that I could condone that my future husband spank our child. I'm saying if such action is ever called for and we both as parents felt it was necessary in such instance I would NEVER be the parent to spank. Yes that may sound contradictory and hypocritical as I am against spanking. However, my future husband may or may not have different views on parenting. We would have to communicate effectively, work together and compromise to reach decisions such as this one. I would still be opossed to spanking. I would use other methods of disclipine before ever even thinking about spanking my child.
At this time, I am not a parent. My views may change somewhat when I do become a parent. That doesn't go to say that I will feel spanking is appropiate. I feel that many parents teach their children not to hit others, to keep their hands t o themselves, etc. but yet they themselves spank their children. I don't really get that.
Why would you teach your child not to use physical violence to get someone to do something you want them to, to stop doing something you don't want them to do or for any other reason but yet you yourself are showing your child that using with physical "violence" you are getting them to act the way you want them to?
That's how I see spanking. I feel spanking does not teach anything at all.
As a child I was spanked. I guess if anything I learned whatever I did that caused my parents to spank me was inappropiate. I knew not to do it again. But what I did not learn was that what I did was inappropiate and why it was inappropiate. That is the important thing which you must teach children when you want them to learn right from wrong.
Spanking also has more cons. This is just one of the many.
Mandinka2
New member
C'mon Buff , ur better than that and u know it. How could it be "neccessary"? Im sorry if u feel im nailing u here on this point , but I wouldnt get hitched with someone who was gonna beat my kids , no way no how. Everyone gets frustrated no and again , but if u hit a woman u go to jail no matter how nuts she was, why should it be any different for the smaller members of our society? This is somethin I've spent a little thought on , cos I know that if I left my wife cos she was hittin my kids , there is a more than 95% chance that she'd get them and she'd continue to beat them.nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
There u go , its BS and u know it ...nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
Exactly , but did it ever lead u to question that ur parents truly loved u?nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
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nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
slickdadd said:
I would never agree to spanking our child just for any reason.
It would have to be after every other method was used. Only then would I agree to my husband doing it. If such was the case, I wouldn't spank my child. My husband would have to do it.
Stangfriik
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I need to start growing that bamboo plant 
nvrbuffenuff_girl
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Imnotdutch said:
Too young to reason with? If you feel that a child is too young to reason with you are obviously not talking to the child at their intellectual level. After all you are the parent. You are the one who makes safe and responsible decisions for your young child. You DON'T have to reason. You are the parent. Do you want your child to run the show or are you running it?
If spanking is EVER to be used it should be after much thought and as a last resort when you have tried everything else without sucess. That doesn't go to say that after trying two things you should resort to spanking.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
MrMuscle said:
Do you want your child to walk around slapping others' wrists when your child feels others are misbehaving or not doing as they wish they were?
Those parents, like the ones at your gym, have not been effective parents.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Imnotdutch said:
We as a society are raising egocentric kids.
I posted this article before. I wrote this. This is why, I feel we have so many egocentric,spoiled, rude, out of control children. Also explains my views on parenting. If you set forth this kind of foundation I feel that spankings would not be necessary. I don;t mention spanking in it though.
How to Raise Happy Children
Once upon a time people got married, had children and reared them. It wasn't something they spent a lot of time fretting over. Then came the baby boom and a slew of child-rearing experts with fancy degrees. Soon rhetoric replaced reality. Nonsense replaces common sense. Raising kids became "parenting", an abstract difficult science. Parents became permissive and democratic, and, not surprisingly, children became spoiled and out of control.
Well, I am not an expert on raising children, because I do not have children. I have been an aunt for nearly 16 years and have learned a lot through trial and error. My experience has shown me that a number of fashionable ideas many of today's parents believe are actually damaging myths. Here are six of these myths--- and the straight facts that can make raising your children much easier and more rewarding.
Myth 1: Children should come first. For the first seven years of life, my mother and father went to college and worked part-time. When Mom and Dad were home, they often ushered me outdoors, where I'd find myself sharing the sidewalk with other kids-- who's also been kicked out of their houses. If I truly needed Mom or Dad, they were always there. On the other hand, if I wanted to do something for me that I could do for myself, they were quick to instruct me accordingly. I never felt rejected or uncared for. Quite the contrary-- I felt loved and independent at the same time.
Since World War II, we have become obsessed with elevating kids to a position of prominence they have not earned and do not benefit from. The more child-centered the family has become, the more self-centered the children have become.
Except for the first few years of life, children do not require constant attention---any more than they require unlimited food. Kids need to eat, but if you give them too much they become food addicts. Too much attention is every bit damaging, making it difficult for the child to outgrow his infantile self-centeredness.
But parents can help cure children of an addiction to attention by putting their marriage first. For if the marriage is healthy, the family and each individual within it will be healthy as well. The children will have a secure foundation upon which to build self-esteem. Several years ago, some friends created an unusual rule: for 30 minutes after everyone gets home, the children must play in their rooms or go outside. The parents take this time to unwind and talk as they prepare the evening meal. Until this rule, my friends have devoted themselves entirely to the kids. But the more attention they gave them, the more demanding and disobedient the children became. The kids have taken over! Now the children find things to do by themselves until dinner, when they all enjoy talking together. These children have become independent, secure, outgoing, happy and polite. What it took was the parents' moving their marriage back to center stage.
Myth 2: A family is a democracy. Parents often ask me, "How can we get our children to obey?" My answer is simple and direct: "If you expect your children to obey, they will." I’m sure many American parents would say they do expect their children to obey. I’m equally sure that many American children are not obedient. This sorry state of affairs is the fault of parents who forever beat around the bush of obedience, lest they damage their child's supposedly fragile psyche. When parents please, bargain, bribe, threaten, give second chances or "reason" with children, they are wishing for--- not expecting--- obedience.
The most common form of wishing takes place when parents argue with young children. A parent will make a decision that the child doesn’t like, and the child screeches, "Why?" But this isn’t a question. It's an invitation to do battle. By accepting the invitation, you step squarely into quicksand. And you cannot win.
No matter how eloquent or correct your explanation, children can see only one point of view-- their own. It is far better, without hint or threat or apology, to say simply, "Because I said so."
As a child, I couldn’t stand to hear those four words. If those words absolutely stick in your throat, try, "Because I’m the parent, and making decisions is my responsibility."
The fact is, a family is not a democracy. Eventually someone has to be the final say, and that someone better be an adult, or everyone is in trouble.
Myth 3: Housework id for parents only. When I help run workshops, I ask, "How many of you expect your children to perform household chores for which they are not paid?" In a group of 500, no more than 50 hands will go up.
Then: "How many of your parents would have raised their hands to the same question?" Hands go up everywhere, and people laugh. But it's no laughing matter. In just one generation, we have managed to misplace an important tenant of child-rearing: children should be contributing members of their families.
The ultimate purpose of raising children is to help them out of our lives and into successful lives of their own. Chores provide a sense of accomplishment, enlarging a child's feelings of worth.
You should begin assigning chores (real chores) when your child is three. At this age, kids are eager to please and want to get involved in whatever their parents are doing. A three yr. old can help make his bed and set the table. A four or five yr. old can keep his room orderly. A six yr. old can vacuum. A ten yr. old should contribute 45 minutes of "chore time" each day plus two hours on Saturday. By age 18, kids should know how to run a home. He should be able to wash and iron clothes, prepare basic meals, clean bathrooms, mow grass. All this training not only helps prepare children for adulthood but also develops an appreciation for the effort parents pit into maintaining a household.
Myth 4: Frustration is bad for children. Believing the fairy tale that frustration causes stress and poor self-esteem, parents work hard to "protect" their children from this terrible scourge. But the truth is, life involves many frustrations, and it’s only through experience with frustration that we develop a tolerance for it. This enables us to turn adversity into challenge and persevere in the face of it. Perseverance, that all-important "if at first you don't succeed" attitude, is the primary quality in every success story.
So give your children regular doses of vitamin N. This vital nutrient is the most character-building two-letter word in the English language---NO.
To find out if you've given your children enough of this word, list on a sheet of paper everything you've ever dreamed of having. A sports car? A new house? Jewelry? Now circle the things on your list you'll actually acquire within the next five years. Most of us content ourselves with 20 percent of what we desire.
On a second sheet of paper, list everything your kids will ask for in the next 12 months--- toys, electronic equipment, the latest clothes, movie tickets, etc. Then circle the things they're probably going to get. If you're a typical American, you circled 75 percent of your children's wish list.
We accustom our children to material standard completely out of kilter with what they can expect as adults. Consider also that most of them attain this level of affluence not by working or sacrificing, but by whining, demanding and manipulating. We teach them that something can be had for nothing---one of the most destructive attitudes a person can acquire.
So administer vitamin N. Give your children all they truly need, but only some---say 25 percent---of what they simply want.
Myth 5: The more toys kids have, the better. A typical child's home has toys strewn all over the place, yet children still complain, "I'm bored!" They are bored precisely because parents provide them with so many things. A child can't decide what to do next because the clutter presents too many options.
The child's boredom also has a lot to do with the kinds of toys parents buy. In most cases, they are mass-produced toys that stimulate little creative thought. Worse, they are so one-dimensional---especially the popular electronic games---they they limit a child's ability to express imagination.
Truly creative toys encourage a child to use something to represent something else. When a child takes a pine cone, sets it upright and calls it a tree, that’s the essence of fantasy, which is in turn the essence of play. Clay, finger paints and crayons are all examples of creative toys. In the hands of imaginative child, so are everyday things like spoons, boxes and paper bags---not to mention sticks, rocks and mud, glorious mud.
Some parents worry that if their child doesn't own the latest "in" toys his friends have, his self-esteem will suffer. But self-esteem is not a function of how many things we have. It's a function of nurturing the gifts that lie within.
Myth 6: "My kids don't watch too much TV." Between ages two and five, the average American preschool child watches 28 hours of TV a week, or 1456 hrs. a year. You may say, "My child only watches 15 hours a week." Well, according to my own informal studies in the families I work with, parents generally underestimate their children's television viewing time by 50 percent.
Your child's preschool years are formative ones during which he develops the skills needed to become creative and competent. Next time he is watching television, ask yourself, What is he doing?
Television-watching inhibits initiative, curiosity, motivation, imagination, reasoning and attention span. Because the action shifts constantly in time, it also fails to promote logical, sequential thinking, thereby causing problems in following directions and anticipating consequences. And there is ample evidence that television-generation children, deprived of opportunities for discovery and developing natural gifts, are less competent than previous generations. Just take a look at our kids' lower scholastic-achievement test scores and literacy levels.
I think it makes sense to keep a child away from television as much as possible until at least the third grade, when he or she has learned to read well. After that, there's no problem letting a child watch educational or sports programs, but I recommend that parents allow no more than five hours of television a week.
I feel that if others implements my ideas and ignore trendy ideas about "parenting" and rely instead of on your common sense, you'll have the best possible chance of rearing happy, healthy children.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
You are aware that it takes time for a kid to learn to talk and to understand?
So if you dont have to reason why would the kid want to stop doing something inappropriate? You hope the kid respects you enough to take a straight order? I would hope that you see one of the responsibilities of a parent to be helping your kids to understand why something that they are doing is wrong.........how it affects others etc.
So if you dont have to reason why would the kid want to stop doing something inappropriate? You hope the kid respects you enough to take a straight order? I would hope that you see one of the responsibilities of a parent to be helping your kids to understand why something that they are doing is wrong.........how it affects others etc.
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Mandinka2 said:
Yes its not necessary. I didn't get my thoughts across correctly. Maybe Im still sleepy.
What I meant was, that my future husband MAY or may not have different views about parenting and child-rearing that I do. If that was the case and he felt spankings were necessary obviously I would try to conviince him that they weren't by showing him. If he felt that my child-rearing ideas were not effective I would be willing to try his ideas, even if they included spanking. I would NOT be okay with trying spanking as a first resort. However, I do feel that him and I are a team as a team we must compromise, try different things, etc. So if my ideas did not work with our children I would be willing to give some of his ideas a try, as a last resort. This is saying that he is for spankings when I am not.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Imnotdutch said:
I am fully aware of the fact that a child has to learn to talk and understand. Do you realize that as young as 4 months old children understand? Yes they do not understand things that we as adults understand or even things that five years understand but they do have their own level of understanding. To say that young children do not understand is like making an excuse for their inappropiate behavior. Obviously you wouldn't disclipine a child 0-12 months old.
You don't have to reason to get your child to stop doing something inappropiate. You are the parent. You can talk to your child, explain to your child that what they are doing is inappropiate for such and such reason. You shouldn't order your child. You shouldn't order anyone. You simply talk to your child at a level they are able to understand and explain why the inappropiate behavior is inappropiate.
I do feel that one of my responsibilities as a parent would be to rear my child, teach my child right from wrong, teach my child an understanding for inappropiate behavior. Also to love and nurture my child.
My question is: How many of you that say you should never spank a child, have children? I honestly use to say the same thing, until I had one. When they are very young sometimes it's a necessity. I'm not talking about beating them, but a hard spat on the butt or hand to keep then under control, from running out into the street after they've been told repeatedly not to. Things like that. Some childeren will hit their parents when angry, they have to be taught that when you physically violate a person, the same will be done to you. WORDS AND EXPLAINING do not always work. Some children are far easier to handle than others. Some will puch the limits as far as they can as part of their nature.
Mandinka2
New member
Dude , Buff makes the point above that U are the FUCKING ADULT , cos the kid kicks u , u kick em back? Fuck man, the kid is totally dependent on u for everything , there are so many forms of punishment that u can think of , and personally I have seen that by rewarding positive action rather than by punishing negative is so much more effective. Sure u live in America , but it is possible, Germans are really great at it I gotta say.biteme said:
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
biteme said:
I do not have children. I have nieces and nephews that I have cared for many times. As their aunt I was given the OK to spank them by their parents. Even once when I babysat when I was 13 I was given the OK to spank the neighbor's 3 kids. Never have I done it.
If your child is running out into the street at a young age you aren't doing your job as a parent to make sure your child is not near that street. I certainly hope your child wasn't one of those kids that was left to play outside on the street with other kids as a toddler. I saw this little boy in my old neighborhood doing that. He was three years old running around outside playing ALONE. Where were his parents? Inside their house busy with something that SEEMED more important. At that age your child shouldn't be outside alone, in my opinion.
So if someone took a gun and pointed it to your head it would be okay for you to do the same??? I think not. You can teach that hitting others is inappropiate in other ways. Obviously you don't want your child hitting you so why would you hit them? Child imitate their parents behavior. If you do it they will want to as well. The words that you use when you speak to your child, the tone of voice used and many other things play a huge part into the way your child will respond. Also, the way a child's brain works from 0-5 years old they only remember the last thing you said when giving a command. For example, if a two year old is running. You, the parent, yell, "STOP RUNNING!" They don't remember STOP. They remember running or run. A simple, "Stop!" would be more effective.
I do agree children are all different. Some may be harder to deal with than others. Still doesn't go to say that spanking should be the means of discipline. Besides reasonsing and explaining there are other forms of discipline which do not involve using [arts of your body to hit another person. In this case, the child.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
So you are prepared to reap the benefits if it does come to spanking..........but not do it yourself. It seems that here you are saying that spanking is correct in some situations.......
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Mandinka2 said:
Exactly!
Rewarding postive behavior will eliminate negative behavior. Children want to please their parents. If they see that their negative behavior is not getting them rewards they will eventually stop. They will want to continue the positive behavior in order to get those rewards.
Don't get all bent out of shape. I'm not saying you should by your child a new toy everytime they behave appropiately. Rewards can be as simple as praise words, stickers, a hug, etc.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
biteme said:
That is the story that I hear a lot too.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
biteme said:
They were brought up in a totally different society. The things we know now about pareting and child-rearing where not the same things they knew back in their day.
I was spanked. Do I hate my parents because of it? No. Do I feel my parents were not effectve parents? No. I do feel that they could of been effective parents without using spankings.
Also you have to realize that spanking back in their day was A LOT different from what it is now. What you see as appropiate spanking for your child may not be the same thing John Doe parent of three in Boise, ID sees as spanking.
Either way, if you are teaching your child that hitting is inappropiate why are you doing it??
strangebrew
New member
I was spanked as a youngin...i turned out fine...I think it really helps kids learn at a young age..as a teenager i wasnt very rebellious at all. On the other hand I know parents who dont spank their kids...and the last time they were over at my house, their kids flushed toys down my toilet and overflowed it. They were completely out of control.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
Let me tell you a story..........
I started working at a school this year where the approach of rewarding positive behaviour was tried rather than dealing with negative behaviour. For awkward kids this was done in conjunction with home. It failed miserably. It was tried because research suggests that it works.........the school is now in deep shit. If you go this route kids do things because they expect a reward for doing what they should do as a matter of course. We now have a new principal (the last one got kicked out) who does reward EXCEPTIONAL behaviour but punishes negative behaviour.
I started working at a school this year where the approach of rewarding positive behaviour was tried rather than dealing with negative behaviour. For awkward kids this was done in conjunction with home. It failed miserably. It was tried because research suggests that it works.........the school is now in deep shit. If you go this route kids do things because they expect a reward for doing what they should do as a matter of course. We now have a new principal (the last one got kicked out) who does reward EXCEPTIONAL behaviour but punishes negative behaviour.
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Imnotdutch said:
If you talk to a child at a level they are able to understand, yes they will be able to grasp right from wrong.
You also mentioned that the children at your school are rebels. You aren't their parent. You do not rear them. Their parents rear them. You can't really compare those kids at your school with the children you are able to rear your way since they are your children. I would hope you aren't spanking children, especially if they aren't yours.
I've worked with problematic children in a school setting. Yes its hard. Yes they do struggle with right or wrong. However you can teach them how to behave appropiately while they are with you. Its possible. What they do when they aren't under your care you aren't really in control over. If they behave while they are with you, then you are doing your job. If they go back home and their parents rearing skills stink, obviously you can't control how they will behave.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
strangebrew said:
You shoulda rewarded them for learning how to use the John
Sorry.........that was a cheap shot.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Imnotdutch said:
Benefits from spanking??? Are you kidding me. I said I would be willing to resort to spanking ONLY as a LAST resort. Even then I would try to convince or better yet show my husband why spanking is NOT beneficial.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Imnotdutch said:
These children at your school are 11-16. They do not need rewards to behave. At that age other methods should be used.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Imnotdutch said:
You shoulda rewarded them for learning how to use the John
Sorry.........that was a cheap shot.
In that case, that is not positive reinforcement or rewarding postive behavior.
If you rewarded these children they would not be able to differentiate between being rewarded for knowing how to flush and flushing toys. They would think that BOTH actions earned the reward. Or even worse, flushing the toys earned it.
In this case, I would tell the child that the toilet is used for a person to urinate or deficate. Of course not in those words. Toys are for playing with. I would also tell them what happens when you flush toys down the toilet.
Besides why is the toilet made available for children to play with??
strangebrew
New member
lmao i would love to see you explain it to those kids...trust me it wouldnt do shit.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
At the end of a term I make a point of talking to the kids about lots of things including which teachers are good and why. Bottom line is they like teachers who punish poor behaviour and reward exceptional behaviour........they behave for those teachers........when I got into it at the end of this term this seemed to carry over to anybody, including parents, who are in positions of responsibility.
BTW those kids see more of their teachers on the average day than their parents.........there is some responsibility for rearing them appropriately on the teacher (this is recognised in Law over here). If you do your job well it reflects in their whole life no matter who they are with.........who they are with should not matter.
BTW those kids see more of their teachers on the average day than their parents.........there is some responsibility for rearing them appropriately on the teacher (this is recognised in Law over here). If you do your job well it reflects in their whole life no matter who they are with.........who they are with should not matter.
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
strangebrew said:
How old are these kids?
Why can't the parents simply close the bathroom doors so that the children can not enter the bathroom and play with the toilet?
They may still be able to turn the door knob to go in. If that's the case they can install lock way up high that children can not reach.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
strangebrew said:
In practice it does not do shit.........
I know of several parents who took this route and are nowwondering where they went wrong.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Imnotdutch said:
Maybe I am not understanding. Are you saying that in UK caregivers are allowed by law the right to spank children or rear them as they see fit??
strangebrew
New member
these kids are ages 5-8, the perfect spanking age 
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Imnotdutch said:
So because it didn't work for them it doesn't work for anyone? Is that what you are saying?
I think not.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
That does not get the point across that it would be wwrong to go in there in the first place. You have not got the point across that it is wrong.........in doing the things that you suggest you are letting the lunatics control the asylum.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
strangebrew said:these kids are ages 5-8, the perfect spanking age
Five to eight years old and flushing toilets.
Obviously these parents aren't effective.
There is a perfect spanking age?
HA!
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
That is not what I said.........
In the UK anybody who is in charge of children are legally obliged to treat the kids as their own. They stopped the physical punishment some time ago.........
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Imnotdutch said:
I don't think so.
If you explain the appropiate usage of certain things you are in a way getting the point across that its wrong to use it in any other way. Which would then put two and two together and the child at ages 5-8 would be able to KNOW that going in there for any other reason than for using the toilet is wrong.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Imnotdutch said:
If you are treating them like your own and you believe in spanking wouldn't that mean you could spank them? Because if they were your own you would be spanking them. Right?
strangebrew
New member
nvrbuff..sorry to say but your full of it...good luck when you do have children
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
Hang on a secod you are gettign it back to front here........
You are saying reward the positive and the negatives go away. I am saying when I have seen people try this in practice it does not work. So surely the original idea was flawed.
It might work for some.........but you presented it like it was the ultimate answer and hence woudl work for everyone.
You are saying reward the positive and the negatives go away. I am saying when I have seen people try this in practice it does not work. So surely the original idea was flawed.
It might work for some.........but you presented it like it was the ultimate answer and hence woudl work for everyone.
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
strangebrew said:nvrbuff..sorry to say but your full of it...good luck when you do have children
That is simply your opinion.
Everyone has them. Thanks for expressing yours.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Imnotdutch said:
No I did not present it that way.
I also said that every child is different so what may work for one may not work for another.
You would have to try different things with your own child to find something that works.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
You have obviously misunderstood what I said about spanking. I said quite clearly that when kids get old enough to reason intelligently with then it would be wrong. I actually mentioned kids of school age quite specifically........
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
I realize you spoke specifically about school age children. However, if the law in UK states that children under your care are to be treated as your own does that mean that children in day cares are to be treated as their child care provider would treat her own kids? So these children up to 4 or 5 years old should be spanked if that's the way their child care provider would treat his or her children??Imnotdutch said:
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
Well I would have thought that if you explained it to them effectively on their level they would have understood and not done it again.
I am sorry but in moving the locks etc you are letting the kids govern what happens.........the lunatics are running the asylum. On the other hand if they had been punished appropriately when they did something wrong they would be unlikely to do it again.........
I am sorry but in moving the locks etc you are letting the kids govern what happens.........the lunatics are running the asylum. On the other hand if they had been punished appropriately when they did something wrong they would be unlikely to do it again.........
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
biteme said:
This thread is really going nowhere.........however, I feel Biteme says it best.
It strikes me that the two people with the most to say on this thread are not parents........only aunts and uncles. I feel that it is wrong for us to try to tell parents what to do. As with most things.........you learn the most when you have to put the theory into practice over extended periods of time. Neither of us have had the opportunity to do this........
Good post Biteme.
Generic MALE
New member
I have 4 children. I had always been of the opinion to never spank, especially for fighting with their siblings - I mean what sort of message is that? - You hit them for hitting their sister to teach them its bad to hit?
We never spanked - and our kids get commendations all the time from friends and the school for their behavior. All of them have been student of the quarter, semester etc and excell in school and sports. Never any behavior problems and they really are good at home.
I have only spanked once. It was last year and my then 11 year old son was tormenting his sister - including sort of flicking her and just being a typical older brother. I finally got frustrated and said "If you touch her again I am going to spank you with a belt". Wounldn't you know it - not 5 minutes goes by and she is crying again.
I felt I had no way out. I tried to think of a way, but felt I had to be consistent and show them I meant what I said. I finally gave him 10 swats with a belt on his bare leg. It really was a bad feeling.
I don't ever plan on spanking them again. All brothers and sisters squabble, which is all they were doing. Our kids have been very well behaved without it, and I doubt it would add anything.
My dad was often quite physical on us as children and it certainly did not make my 2 older brothers well behaved (both were arrested in their teens for various things and did some juvey time) nor create good feelings in us. It created a fair amount of resentment.
We never spanked - and our kids get commendations all the time from friends and the school for their behavior. All of them have been student of the quarter, semester etc and excell in school and sports. Never any behavior problems and they really are good at home.
I have only spanked once. It was last year and my then 11 year old son was tormenting his sister - including sort of flicking her and just being a typical older brother. I finally got frustrated and said "If you touch her again I am going to spank you with a belt". Wounldn't you know it - not 5 minutes goes by and she is crying again.
I felt I had no way out. I tried to think of a way, but felt I had to be consistent and show them I meant what I said. I finally gave him 10 swats with a belt on his bare leg. It really was a bad feeling.
I don't ever plan on spanking them again. All brothers and sisters squabble, which is all they were doing. Our kids have been very well behaved without it, and I doubt it would add anything.
My dad was often quite physical on us as children and it certainly did not make my 2 older brothers well behaved (both were arrested in their teens for various things and did some juvey time) nor create good feelings in us. It created a fair amount of resentment.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Generic MALE said:
Oh look an example from someone who is a parent.
more kids need to get beaten these days
i used to get my ass KICKED
come to think of it, more people just need to be parents these days....but, I'm not opposed to anyone spanking their kids within reason.
come to think of it, some people just shouldn't be allowed to have kids period.
i used to get my ass KICKED
come to think of it, more people just need to be parents these days....but, I'm not opposed to anyone spanking their kids within reason.
come to think of it, some people just shouldn't be allowed to have kids period.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
nvrbuffenuff_girl said:
Oh look an example from someone who is a parent.
When you eventually get around to having kids make sure you post a lot. I am looking forward to hearing how you deal with the trials and tribulatons.........
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
Imnotdutch said:
You'll have to wait many years for that. I'm not n a point in life were I will be having them anytime soon.
Mandinka2
New member
Glad u asked Argent , no I dont currently , I did for one summer when I was asked by a friend. I worked with some of the most troublesome kids in Ireland as it happens , and EVERY kid WITHOUT exception had issues stemming from lousy parents. My Mum is a remedial school teacher for the last 43 years , most of the kids , although they are supposed to have real learning difficulties have those issues purely as a result of their poor backgrounds.argent said:
She used to have a little blue VW golf when I was young , it used to piss me off rightly that we'd often be carrying in 4 or five other kids (7 kids in a golf is a tight squeeze) , often the kids would be unwashed and unfed , no-one gave a shit about them. Thats reality pal , while poink and all the rednecks on this board may like to say fuck em into the slammer they will only treat the symptoms and not the cause. PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY neccesitates a diminishment of personal freedoms ( e.g. u cant be out drinkin urself silly if uve got to get up in the morning and get that kid to school) but ur society doesnt have the balls to enforce it.
Like I was sayin before I went off on that little rant (he he) I was pissed at my Mum for doin that to us , but when I look back on it , Im so proud of her , she had balls God damn it , id she didnt take care of those kids , then who the fuck would? Mostly her kids relapsed into lives of mediocrity but they were ok and at least someone took care of them , even if only for a short while.
Mandinka2
New member
There is a fuck of a lot wrong with spanking kids , spanking is a tool of a bully , society rightly forbids men to bully women because of their larger size so why should it be any different for little kids? Spanking is humiliating to kids , I should know. If I came to your house and pur u over my knee and paddled ur ass in front of ur friends then would u not be humiliated? Yeh , u really thought about this I can telllucidBlue said:
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
Your mother deserves a medal for that.........we need more people like that......and more people that are prepared to give up some time to work with these kids over the summer.
Interesting comment about 'learning difficulties'. Our school has 63% of the kids on the Special Educational Needs register (relax, thats only 3 times the national average!!)........a lot of them are there because of problems that can be traced back to home rather than a true educational need.
Interesting comment about 'learning difficulties'. Our school has 63% of the kids on the Special Educational Needs register (relax, thats only 3 times the national average!!)........a lot of them are there because of problems that can be traced back to home rather than a true educational need.
Mandinka2 said:
strangebrew
New member
I was spanked as a kid, I wasnt humiliated by it. It kept me in line, taught me to respect my parents and not do stupid shit. It has had no negative effects on my life. Now if I hadnt been spanked...I would no doubt have been lot more rebellious.
Mandinka2
New member
biteme said:
Listen pal , Im not sayin that Spankin means u go to hell , those guys lived in different times when attitudes such as Curling's were prevalent on lots of issues. Violence begets violence , end of story , the evidence is incontrovertible. As I have posted before to Dutch , I went to a school where discipline was literally hard as nails. I have been hit with a closed fist and seen guys laid out by teachers and not had the slightest problem , they werent little kids , it was a high school ,our teachers were gentlemen and expected us to behave in that manner. But they NEVER NEVER resorted to spanking because that is the act of a bully and is humiliating.
i think bernie mack said it right in kings of comedy, watch the movie and u will understand. i was spanked kept me in line and my brother too and also my parents. a little spanking says alot to a kid. my aunt tries words and words dont seem to work she has the worst kid i have ever met he runs the house. a little spanking goes a long way
Mandinka2
New member
Dude , she is sayin that she can compromise , that she and her husband would tease it out between themselves , I suspect that if we get right down to it , she'd have a major problem with it. She certainly doesnt seem to see any benefit in it above the disadvantages.Imnotdutch said:
Mandinka2
New member
To all the folks here that really believe in Spanking , I'd like to take u over to Germany for a week or so , what do u have , nothin but remarkably placid kids devoid of violence. Its because ur society tolerates such behaviour towards kids that u get away with it. Worst thing is , if u could only see the benefits of the alternative then we wouldnt even be havin this discussion.OreoPL said:i think bernie mack said it right in kings of comedy, watch the movie and u will understand. i was spanked kept me in line and my brother too and also my parents. a little spanking says alot to a kid. my aunt tries words and words dont seem to work she has the worst kid i have ever met he runs the house. a little spanking goes a long way
Let me put it like this to ya: If Im the biggest guy amongst all the big guys then I can beat ur ass anytime I like if ur pissin me off , but ull resent me and grow to hate me , why? Cos I didnt have the fuckin respect to talk or explain things and didnt have the flexibility to say I mighta been wrong. That kind of attitude would quickly result in ZERO fuckin respect on this board (at least from my corner). Why is it that u people can not understand that kids deserve every bit as much respect as other folks?
A parent walks a fine line when spanking. It really depends on how well they can control their anger IMO. If they can do it swiftly to get the point across it probably can be a very effective tool when other options have been exhausted. However they have to be careful not to start hitting the kid every little time he/she does something wrong. That is when it can be damaging.
My granddad used to beat the shit out of my pops. Unfortunately my dad decided to follow suit. I can remember many instances of him knocking the shit out of me for relatively minor things I had done. Things like not being home on time or simply giving him a look he didn't approve of would usually result in getting shoved against the wall and a nice slap across the face. What bothered me the most was that my father could be a great guy 90% of the time. He was very successful and we lived very well until he left my mother. He was highly educated and a pretty compassionate individual but he could not control his anger. Because of this I too became a very angry person. For a long time violence was my way of solving conflicts. I became heavily involved in drugs and alcohol and hurt myself and a lot of those that cared for me. I honestly believe a lot of this was due to the fact that my pops dealt violently with myself. You have to be careful use it only as a last resort option. I think too many people with poor parenting skills end up treating their kids more like pets than human beings.
My granddad used to beat the shit out of my pops. Unfortunately my dad decided to follow suit. I can remember many instances of him knocking the shit out of me for relatively minor things I had done. Things like not being home on time or simply giving him a look he didn't approve of would usually result in getting shoved against the wall and a nice slap across the face. What bothered me the most was that my father could be a great guy 90% of the time. He was very successful and we lived very well until he left my mother. He was highly educated and a pretty compassionate individual but he could not control his anger. Because of this I too became a very angry person. For a long time violence was my way of solving conflicts. I became heavily involved in drugs and alcohol and hurt myself and a lot of those that cared for me. I honestly believe a lot of this was due to the fact that my pops dealt violently with myself. You have to be careful use it only as a last resort option. I think too many people with poor parenting skills end up treating their kids more like pets than human beings.
strangebrew
New member
wow mand you must be fuckin stupid, dont u realize theres a difference between beating someone and spanking a child?
Mandinka2
New member
Yeh , one is where I kick ur ass cos ur bein a prick , the other one is where u beat up some kid cos he pissed u off. Clearly there are two massive differences here:strangebrew said:
1. You are an adult and should know better than to talk out of ur ass.
2. The kid is vastly smarter than u are.
Fast Twitch Fiber
New member
When I was in high school our principal paddled us. I thought it was the most ridiculous thing in the world to be 16-18 years old and getting hit on the butt with a piece of wood. Damn, it did hurt but it never changed anyone's behavior.
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
That is why it is not effective. Didn't change a damn thing but surely left you emotionally scared. You will remember that paddle wacking your butt till you are an old shriveled up prune.Fast Twitch Fiber said:
strangebrew
New member
that made no sense...whatever u just said mandicka
strangebrew
New member
lol obviously its not gonna have an effect on someone whos in highschool
nvrbuffenuff_girl
New member
strangebrew said:
lol obviously its not gonna have an effect on someone whos in highschool
Whether it happened in highschool or not. Its still not effective. You don't learn something from it. You just remember the pain it caused you.
strangebrew
New member
less talk, more spanking
strangebrew
New member
not enough spanking
Stangfriik
New member
I'm curious why kids act the way they do today compared to back in the 60's then? You're not gonna blame it all on MTV are you?
Fast Twitch Fiber
New member
Stangfriik said:
I thought kids in the 60's were all about rebellion and drug abuse? Just remember, the good old days weren't really so good.
argent
New member
Paddling a highschooler is vastly different from a quick slap to the buttocks, a very resiliant body part nonetheless, of a 2-3 year old who lacks certain cognitive reasoning skills. I don't anybody on the thread who said the would "spank" their child mean anything close to how your making it sound. Your making it sound like b/c he is pro-spank he is going to beat the shit out of the kid with a belt, shoe, etc.( which is wrong/ not effective).
Mandinka2
New member
Exactly WHICH cognitive resoning skills are u referring to? I very much doubt you'll find a study to show there are any discrepancies between a child and an adult. Im specifically not referring to a belt or a shoe either , you will find no reference to those objects in my posts. So where , pray tell did u come up with that ? The long and the short of this is that spanking by whatever definition cannot be justified , on the grounds of humiliation and resentment that it causes within the child alone.argent said:
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