Soy protein...

[esteveze]

ugffff
I bought a Soy protein poweder.. it has 25g per serving 10oz
Ohh my..this is nasty....
I drank half and almost vomit....
Is this normal....
I rather eat meat(Tuna, chicken)..anything but this...
Uffff
The reason I decided to go for a protein drink is, I am not much of an eater...And I could use it as a snack in the afternoon..
But..is this an adquired taste..or something like that???
Any suggestion are welcome..

 

[ann]

I am with you on this one.....UGH!!!!!

Spatterson drinks it....she probably can tell you more on diff. brands.

 

[JLo]

You just have to keep trying until you find one out there that tastes ok to you. Some people mix fruits and things to make them taste better - I, personally, don't have time to do that, but you may wanna try it. Also, click on this thread to read about protein shakes that some of the women on the board prefer.....

If you don't like soy, just drink whey...not that big of a difference.....

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=72026

 

[NubianBeauty]

That is so true esteveze, you will have to find one that you like. It took me some time too. I like the Swiss choc Pro Blend by Human Development Technologies. If you are trying to get some soy you can use the whey protein powder and 1/2 soy milk 1/2 water.

 

[BigEasy]

Think salt, not sweet.

Try it with things like oatmeal, beef broth for a thick gravey, or even in a cheese sauce for steamed broccoli. It does have a strong, almost bitter taste of cellulose.

Another favorite is mixed with peanut butter in a shake, but the soy flavor still comes through a little.

Basically, if the crap wasn't so healthy, I would toss it too!

 

[supergirl]

soy sucks.. stick to whey... here's why...

"Soy also contains phytoestrogens (plant hormones) that mimic estrogen. This encourages promoters to tout the benefits of soy for relief of the symptoms of menopause. Studies show that eating 20 g of soy daily for six weeks will help reduce hot flashes and other symptoms" -The Gale Encyclopedia of Alternative Medicine

why would you want a protein that mimics estrogen when whey, is the highest yield of protein available.

"Whey is a derivative of milk protein. Its short chains and peptides make it available for absorption within ten minutes of ingestion. Whey is the best investment because of its capacity as a post-workout recovery supplement. That critical time after severe physical stress when the cells will act like a sponge and take in almost anything. The extreme hunger of the cells and the fast-acting properties of whey will make sure you use the best window for recovery to the fullest. If not, the body will hunt the stored reserves of nutrients and when on a diet for example that will cause them to rob other muscle-tissue of glutamine. So whey is the best protein, especially on a diet. It also supplies the most aminos bodybuilders use. Whey protein is the only choice when on a diet. When on low-carb diets whey can function as an alternate source of energy, sparing hard-earned muscle protein and glutamine stores within the body" -bodybuilding.com

 

[MS]

I like my soy protein in my oats. I've got to the stage where I don't like the taste of oats WITHOUT soy. It's also great in a rice pudding if you add some sweetener. Soy is a great food for bodybuilders, and I wouldn't worry at all about the 'phytoestrogen hype'. The best protein (if you don't have a dairy allergy) is a mix of whey and soy proteins. You could always hold your nose and gulp it down!!

 

[esteveze]

Rice Pudding????
I was under the impression that rice is not good for u..
How do u make the rice pudding?? or do u buy it prepare??
Any recepies??? I love rice pudding..umm

 

[buksoon]

Supergirl, I gotta disagree on the "Whey is the best" thing. Or at least qualify it.

I think that whey IS the best post-workout. For the fast digestibility. But for the rest of the day, I've gotta give it to calcium caseineate or milk protein isolate. Those are the slower-digesters.

With them, you get a steady infusion of protein all day, almost like a time-release.

Soy might not be ideal, but lately I am a fiend for soy nuts!! I wish I could stop, but my boss keeps 'em around and they're so addictive and cheap! Like, $2 will get you a vat. And the other food we eat tends to be so expensive, so....

I have this paranoia that my body is producing is mass estrogen on account of all these damn nuts!!!! Do ya think it's possible?

 

[MS]

I agree with consuming slower digesting proteins except post workout, when whey is good. You should take heart buksoon. Many/most phytoestrogens prolly act as ANTI-estrogens much more than estrogens. Not only can they bind estrogen receptors and displace your body's natural estrogen binding (kinda like Nolvadex does at specific estrogen receptors) but many of them also inhibit aromatase so your body actually produces less of it's own estrogen. This is thought to be the main way that phytoestrogens prevent estrogen dependant cancers. Other than that, I hope the soy nuts aren't TOO salty!

 

[supergirl]

Supergirl, I gotta disagree on the "Whey is the best" thing. Or at least qualify it.

I think that whey IS the best post-workout. For the fast digestibility. But for the rest of the day, I've gotta give it to calcium caseineate or milk protein isolate. Those are the slower-digesters.

With them, you get a steady infusion of protein all day, almost like a time-release.

add some skim milk to the whey to slow down the digestion and make it relatively "time-released".

 

[NY Muscle]

add some skim milk to the whey to slow down the digestion and make it relatively "time-released".

.


that wont do much at all, add some flax oil or whole milk to "slow it down."

 

[buksoon]

Good idea, Supergirl!

MS, thanks so much for the reply (very scientific and impressive!) but I have resolved to toss out those dang nuts first thing tomorrow. Just throw 'em out!

I am outta control.

 

[NY Muscle]

soy sucks.. stick to whey... here's why...

"Soy also contains phytoestrogens (plant hormones) that mimic estrogen. This encourages promoters to tout the benefits of soy for relief of the symptoms of menopause. Studies show that eating 20 g of soy daily for six weeks will help reduce hot flashes and other symptoms" -The Gale Encyclopedia of Alternative Medicine

why would you want a protein that mimics estrogen when whey, is the highest yield of protein available.

"

your intent is good but the thought basis is off....soy protien acts like estrogen but so does NOLVADEX...but many women and men take nolvadex....nolvadex has a higher affinity for the estrogen receptor, and competes with and can beat most of the free floating * bad estrogen in the blood stream... so soy is actually ANTI-ESTROGENIC, and theres many stuudies to back it up.

 

[supergirl]

your intent is good but the thought basis is off....soy protien acts like estrogen but so does NOLVADEX...but many women and men take nolvadex....nolvadex has a higher affinity for the estrogen receptor, and competes with and can beat most of the free floating * bad estrogen in the blood stream... so soy is actually ANTI-ESTROGENIC, and theres many stuudies to back it up.

well you are always the one to argue with every damn thing i say.. and it is not my words.. it is from a medical encyclopedia.. and we were talking about shakes.. soy vs whey.. not nolvadex

 

[MS]

LOL buksoon. I've heard of folks outta control with pizza/beer/ice cream/oreos, but you're the first I've 'met' that had a soy nut eating disorder!!! Congrats on recognizing the problem and having the fortitude to tackle it head on.

BTW, not all soy products are "good" for you. Highly refined food is highly refined food, no matter what it started out as. For instance, I think one of the all time highest GI foods on the planet is low fat soy ice cream! That stuff is simply evil. Likewise I think whey isolate is good post workout, but it's better to get whole proteins as much as possible at other times rather than be too reliant on protein powders.

I say that somewhat hypocritically since I have dieted for competitions on virtually nothing but soy for my protein. But I don't convince myself that this is a good long term lifestyle approach, merely a temporary means to an end.

 

[NY Muscle]

well you are always the one to argue with every damn thing i say.. and it is not my words.. it is from a medical encyclopedia.. and we were talking about shakes.. soy vs whey.. not nolvadex

you are talking about soy as being estrogenic and nolvadex is the perfect example to show you the fault..the encyclopedia was correct but you interpreted it wrong...if estrgen was BAD BAD BAD then no one would take nolvadex cause it to is a estrogen, albiet a weaker one with a stronger affinity for the estrogen receptor, thus blocking the BAD estrogen much like what has been claimed or studied with SOY protein and its estrognic properties.

75% whey and 25% soy in a shake is a good mix.

 

[supergirl]

you are talking about soy as being estrogenic and nolvadex is the perfect example to show you the fault..the encyclopedia was correct but you interpreted it wrong...if estrgen was BAD BAD BAD then no one would take nolvadex cause it to is a estrogen, albiet a weaker one with a stronger affinity for the estrogen receptor, thus blocking the BAD estrogen much like what has been claimed or studied with SOY protein and its estrognic properties.

75% whey and 25% soy in a shake is a good mix.

whey is better than soy protein.. the point i made and the opinion i stick to.. period!!!

 

[MS]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. They are, after all, like assholes. It would be preferable to state it as an opinion rather than fact. So instead of saying "Whey is better than soy protein" which is not a fact, you coulda said "I prefer to use whey over soy because I believe it is a superior protein for me".

The first statement causes all this unnecessary extra posting and almost flaming by NY. The second statement is above reproach.

I'm not nitpicking here, just want you to realize that what you read in an alternative medical book (which was prolly researched several years ago or more), as well as media hype you may listen too, may, or may not have any basis in reality.

I still think a blend of whey/soy is an excellent choice for bodybuilders. You get the benefits of both.

 

[supergirl]

MS.. just for the record.. ny muscle does this to me all the time, regardless what i post or say or on what board.. can you say post stalker!!!
obviously it is my opinion based on my own experiences and also from RECENT research in an alternative medical book.. not to mention that most bodybuilders that i know or work with and trainers all prefer whey to any other protein. It is just a better protein source than soy and the point was it doesn't have the estrogen effects...
I also agree with bucksoon on the milk protein isolate; again over soy.. i think soy would be the last protein i would use, like in a pinch if need be.. but my first choice is always whey post workout and through-out the day, i use 1/2 milk and 1/2 water.

 

[MS]

A post stalker...coooooollll (NOT)

I know what your saying about popular public opinion regarding soy. I remember when it was "common knowledge" that high protein/low carb diets were inconceivably bad for you. All I'm saying is that there is often a difference (and in the case of soy there IS a difference) between "common knowledge" and what turns out to be reality. Even if he is a stalker, NYs point about 'estrogenic' = BAD is a good one. There are a zillion different types of phytoestrogens and xenoestrogens some very good, some very bad, and some neutral.Testosterone is the most estrogenic chemical in males, but that does not mean that Test is BAD. Many flavones and isoflavones (including those found in soy) are overall more ANTI-estrogenic than they are estrogenic. If you're a bodybuilder, and especially a female bodybuilder, it is a real shame that you would exclude these compounds from your diet. Controlling estrogen is prolly the biggest hurdle for most female BBs I know. Now I know I'm not gonna change your mindset on soy and it's no sweat off my back what you eat or
don't. I just don't want you to put people off researching it and trying it for themselves based entirely on your opinion.

For the record, I consider RECENT research to be research articles (not books) published in 2001.

 

[NY Muscle]

MS.. just for the record.. ny muscle does this to me all the time, regardless what i post or say or on what board.. can you say post stalker!!!
obviously it is my opinion based on my own experiences and also from RECENT research in an alternative medical book.. not to mention that most bodybuilders that i know or work with and trainers all prefer whey to any other protein. It is just a better protein source than soy and the point was it doesn't have the estrogen effects...
I also agree with bucksoon on the milk protein isolate; again over soy.. i think soy would be the last protein i would use, like in a pinch if need be.. but my first choice is always whey post workout and through-out the day, i use 1/2 milk and 1/2 water.

lol i see u Kristy

back to your post...whey is better than soy or any other combo is your opinion or is that fact? just becuase you prefer it and so do all these * trainers* doesnt mean its better, so I am just trying to understand what you mean there.

personally I use whey and sometimes add soy but i do prefer WHEY over SOY alone( whey tastes better), but that doesnt mean i feel whey is better..maybe it tastes better....also different proteins can be used for different needs...you take my posts as an attack on you, you are wrong, just trying make you understand what is FACT and what is PRERFERANCE based on the mere fact that you use one protein over the other based on tastes or *cause your friends use it.*


supergirl you said this in your orignal post ****why would you want a protein that mimics estrogen when whey, is the highest yield of protein available. ****.. and i answered you on that comment and you took it offensively. thats where I used nolvadex as an example and it is a very good example.

you also quoted this from some *internet* site...... ********Whey is the best investment because of its capacity as a post-workout recovery supplement. ***********
.............ok once again SPECIFIC applications....for post workout shake WHEY may indeed be the best, but I could go on and tell you why WHEY alone isnt, but lets say i agree with you..... what abuot the other times of the day when a male or female wants to take a shake.....why is whey better again at that time of day (morning/noon/night) over soy or any other protein for that matter? It isnt.. you told me when we chatted last night that you dont like soy for some estrogen related reasons maybe something you experienced from taking SOY or something I do not recall...but for most woman and at different stages in thier life soy is great for them and it is also good for men too...a nice mixture of both for a male or female is ideal like i stated above as well as MS did in his post.

i didnt flame anyone, supergirl took my reply with facts as a flame...and its not....just fyi... everytime someone responds to this thread,,,i get an email from elite notifying me...lol so Im not stalking anyone....just was making my original comments to let the ORIGINAL poster of this thread base his or her choices of protein use based on FACT not opinion..nothing more...so I apologize if you think I attacked you in anyway...I assure you I didnt nor did I want it to seem that WHEY errrr i mean WAY... lol

i like whey beacause it goes down smooth and tastes great..soy added to whey its better than whey or soy alone as a *best(protein powder source*.. but like i said i USE whey more often...
also 90% of the WHEY that peopke buy is actually inferior in comparison to the SOY ISOLATE that are what most people are buying...the soy isolate is hands down a better protein in terms of certain amino acids and GRAMS of protein per actualy servinge...thus yielding a much higher % of protein per givin amount.....WHEY ISOLATE...which many people rarely actually buy..could be argued to be even better that the SOY i mentioned, but can be argued as well......a combo of both is ideal like MS and I said before.

 

[supergirl]

A post stalker...coooooollll (NOT)

I know what your saying about popular public opinion regarding soy. I remember when it was "common knowledge" that high protein/low carb diets were inconceivably bad for you. All I'm saying is that there is often a difference (and in the case of soy there IS a difference) between "common knowledge" and what turns out to be reality. Even if he is a stalker, NYs point about 'estrogenic' = BAD is a good one. There are a zillion different types of phytoestrogens and xenoestrogens some very good, some very bad, and some neutral.Testosterone is the most estrogenic chemical in males, but that does not mean that Test is BAD. Many flavones and isoflavones (including those found in soy) are overall more ANTI-estrogenic than they are estrogenic. If you're a bodybuilder, and especially a female bodybuilder, it is a real shame that you would exclude these compounds from your diet. Controlling estrogen is prolly the biggest hurdle for most female BBs I know. Now I know I'm not gonna change your mindset on soy and it's no sweat off my back what you eat or
don't. I just don't want you to put people off researching it and trying it for themselves based entirely on your opinion.

For the record, I consider RECENT research to be research articles (not books) published in 2001.

cool.. i am not dictating, just stating my opinion and as per conversations i have has with others in the industry, we feel whey is superior, but like you said, yes that is my opinion based on personal experience.. i am not gonna try to manipulate my estrogen by using soy.. I do know the benefits of soy because my mother who is post menapausal takes soy protein religiously and soy suppliments and it totally stopped her hot flashes and balanced everything out...
BUT in my opinion for a younger woman looking for a richer more potent protein i still have to go with whey or milk protein..

hey.. does soy sauce on my sushi count ?? lol

 

[NY Muscle]

one more thing since we are on the topic, most of the whey people buy (including myself) and ESPECIALLY those 5 lbs jugs are WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE with maybe a damn 1/2 cup of ISOLATE lol... this whey is like 77% protein at best maybe 80% as opposed to soy ISOLATE which is like 90% maybe 95%+, not sure and whey ISOLATE which is like 90-95% but once again im not exactly sure on amount. next time look at the protein gms per serving and scoop size and divide the 2 you will see how poor the protein % is expecially when theres like 2gms or more carbs per serving.

good WHEY ISOLATE is pricy and most people like myself are getting the whey CONCENTRATE..personally id rather save $20 on protein because i eat and drink so much protein that the 10-12% better protein both soy and whey ISOLATE have is not personally worth the extra $20 per 5lb or what ever it is.

i do drink isopure MEAL REPLACEMENTS which is supposed to be the ISOLATE but i aslo add additional whey concentrate.

 

[supergirl]

one more thing since we are on the topic, most of the whey people buy (including myself) and ESPECIALLY those 5 lbs jugs are WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE with maybe a damn 1/2 cup of ISOLATE lol... this whey is like 77% protein at best maybe 80% as opposed to soy ISOLATE which is like 90% maybe 95%+, not sure and whey ISOLATE which is like 90-95% but once again im not exactly sure on amount. next time look at the protein gms per serving and scoop size and divide the 2 you will see how poor the protein % is expecially when theres like 2gms or more carbs per serving.

good WHEY ISOLATE is pricy and most people like myself are getting the whey CONCENTRATE..personally id rather save $20 on protein because i eat and drink so much protein that the 10-12% better protein both soy and whey ISOLATE have is not personally worth the extra $20 per 5lb or what ever it is.

i do drink isopure MEAL REPLACEMENTS which is supposed to be the ISOLATE but i aslo add additional whey concentrate.

wow.. one thing we finally agree on.. isopure kicks ass!! and their pure protein drink is sick as well!

also, i found a good protein source from a friend for 95% pure whey, no fillers or flavoring.. almost dissolves on my tongue