Some Questions Regarding Madcow 5x5!

[Vanchatron]

Madcow - http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Periodized_5x5.htm

I've heard a lot of good things about Madcow 5x5 & have a few questions.


- Can I gain strength AND size on this routine or is it mainly a strength routine?

- Will the body grow in proportion with this routine? E.g. I see no direct rear delt exercises (apart from indirect work from rows), no lateral delt exercises, no traps work, no direct bicep/tricep work etc. I take it I don't need to bother with direct isolation work in this program because my biceps/triceps/shoulders etc will get enough stimulation from the other exercises (squat, bench, row deadlift, mil press etc) so that hypertrophy is present? If that's the case, why is isolation work even incorporated into bodybuilding routines anymore? You'll probably say "because some bodyparts lag behind & need extra work" which is what I'm worried about with this routine. Basically, I'm concerned that the body won't grow in proportion with no Direct muscle work incorporated in somewhere.

- Does this routine have to be cycled so that plateau'ing doesn't occur? For example, I'm used to changing my current routine every 6-8 weeks. I change rep ranges from 6-8 to 10-12, and also change each & every exercise (e.g. Barbell Bench for Dumbbell Bench or Full Squats for Front Squats etc). Will I need to do the same for this routine?

- Is this routine just for beginners or can people with more than 6 years training experience still benefit from this routine?

- I've never tried anything like this, and I'm just a little skeptical because of the little amount of volume present in the workouts. Obviously it works, and it's been proven to work, but I'd just like to know WHY it works. Because let's say this program had NEVER been proven to work, I would probably take one look at it and think "nah not for me, ain't gonna work", but clearly it does.



Anyway, many thanks in advance for anybody willing to share their advice/thoughts on this program with me!

 

[enigma4dub]

read all of this, bet you have no more questions.


http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/Topics/Training_Primer.htm

 

[DaveTSI]

Madcow - http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Periodized_5x5.htm

I've heard a lot of good things about Madcow 5x5 & have a few questions.


- Can I gain strength AND size on this routine or is it mainly a strength routine?

- Will the body grow in proportion with this routine? E.g. I see no direct rear delt exercises (apart from indirect work from rows), no lateral delt exercises, no traps work, no direct bicep/tricep work etc. I take it I don't need to bother with direct isolation work in this program because my biceps/triceps/shoulders etc will get enough stimulation from the other exercises (squat, bench, row deadlift, mil press etc) so that hypertrophy is present? If that's the case, why is isolation work even incorporated into bodybuilding routines anymore? You'll probably say "because some bodyparts lag behind & need extra work" which is what I'm worried about with this routine. Basically, I'm concerned that the body won't grow in proportion with no Direct muscle work incorporated in somewhere.

- Does this routine have to be cycled so that plateau'ing doesn't occur? For example, I'm used to changing my current routine every 6-8 weeks. I change rep ranges from 6-8 to 10-12, and also change each & every exercise (e.g. Barbell Bench for Dumbbell Bench or Full Squats for Front Squats etc). Will I need to do the same for this routine?

- Is this routine just for beginners or can people with more than 6 years training experience still benefit from this routine?

- I've never tried anything like this, and I'm just a little skeptical because of the little amount of volume present in the workouts. Obviously it works, and it's been proven to work, but I'd just like to know WHY it works. Because let's say this program had NEVER been proven to work, I would probably take one look at it and think "nah not for me, ain't gonna work", but clearly it does.



Anyway, many thanks in advance for anybody willing to share their advice/thoughts on this program with me!

just run it once and all your questions will be answered

rear delt exercises? lateral delt exercises? cmon man your not stepping on stage this crap is not practical. isolation is a waste for most and you will realize that when you blow up on the 5x5

 

[Vanchatron]

Thanks a lot!

 

[ScMc]

Doing squats 3 times a week does great things for your body.

I still train biceps once a week at the end of the 5x5 workout. I also do weighted pull-ups once a week. Keep it simple and you should see good gains.

 

[Vanchatron]

OK just spent around 2 hours reading through everything on that site & I have a couple more questions (hopefully my last):


- I know the 1x5 sets are still 5x5, but instead of staying at the same weight throughout, you increase the weights each set. What is the purpose of this? Why not just do 5x5 as normal (e.g. keeping weight the same each set)?

- Regarding the above (1x5) should it be that my LAST set is equal to the weight I use when doing 5x5? For example, if I was lifting 200lbs for all 5 sets when doing 5x5, should the 1x5 look something like this - 5x160lbs/5x170lbs/5x180lbs/5x190lbs/5x200lbs?


Also, on the actual Bill Starr 5x5 website, I didn't see any mention of whether or not the routine needs to be cycled in order to prevent plateau'ing (e.g. changing exercises). I could see plateau's occuring from doing the same thing so often.

 

[enigma4dub]

OK just spent around 2 hours reading through everything on that site & I have a couple more questions (hopefully my last):


- I know the 1x5 sets are still 5x5, but instead of staying at the same weight throughout, you increase the weights each set. What is the purpose of this? Why not just do 5x5 as normal (e.g. keeping weight the same each set)?

- Regarding the above (1x5) should it be that my LAST set is equal to the weight I use when doing 5x5? For example, if I was lifting 200lbs for all 5 sets when doing 5x5, should the 1x5 look something like this - 5x160lbs/5x170lbs/5x180lbs/5x190lbs/5x200lbs?


Also, on the actual Bill Starr 5x5 website, I didn't see any mention of whether or not the routine needs to be cycled in order to prevent plateau'ing (e.g. changing exercises). I could see plateau's occuring from doing the same thing so often.

5x5 is for more volume. 1x5 is for ramping. your best set at 1x5 is significantly more weight than 5 straight sets. elite athletes can push for more volume and intensity but for the benefit of the masses you ramp the exercises you really want to push. and do more volume with the exercises that you want to put on the back burner.

your example for ramping that you posted above is fine

changing exercises for the sake of changing is not the right way of thinking. run a program until you stall out. remember this is a template to teach you about training. run it as is is and listen to your body you can play with exercises and rep set schemes later. if the weights are continually going up and you are growing there is no need for change. just deload when fatigued

btw i know for a fact these questions could be answered either directly on the site or on the original thread. i know because i have had them to. but its cool keep asking away

 

[Vanchatron]

Thank you very much enigma, that's a brilliant help!

 

[Vanchatron]

5x5 is for more volume. 1x5 is for ramping. your best set at 1x5 is significantly more weight than 5 straight sets. elite athletes can push for more volume and intensity but for the benefit of the masses you ramp the exercises you really want to push. and do more volume with the exercises that you want to put on the back burner.

your example for ramping that you posted above is fine

changing exercises for the sake of changing is not the right way of thinking. run a program until you stall out. remember this is a template to teach you about training. run it as is is and listen to your body you can play with exercises and rep set schemes later. if the weights are continually going up and you are growing there is no need for change. just deload when fatigued

btw i know for a fact these questions could be answered either directly on the site or on the original thread. i know because i have had them to. but its cool keep asking away

After re-reading what you said about "your best set at 1x5 is significantly more weight than 5 straight sets" I'm a bit confused because you then went on to say that my example of ramping that I made above is fine.

Are you saying the last set of the 1x5 should be MORE than the weight I use on the 5x5 sets? If so, by how much approximately?

Although, on the example shown in the picture, it seems to be that the LAST set of the 1x5 is equal to the weight I'm using when doing 5x5, it's not MORE which is why I'm a little confused at the moment. Does it need to be MORE or EQUAL?

If EQUAL, this brings me back to my original question as to WHY? What is the point of doing 1x5 ramped sets if the last set is just the same as the weight I'm using when doing 5x5? I see no point in that... I may aswell be doing 5x5 & NOT ramping

btw i know for a fact these questions could be answered either directly on the site or on the original thread. i know because i have had them to. but its cool keep asking away

Sorry man, I didn't even know such a thread existed

 

[enigma4dub]

i f i was ramping an exercise it would look like this, for say behind the neck push press: warmups, 135x5 155x5 175x5 195x5 225x5 these are all working sets, because i cant do 225 5x5 but i can do a single set

and if i had a day when i was doing straight sets it would look like this: warmups
185 5x5 the only work sets are the 185 lb sets


this is just an example.

 

[Vanchatron]

I think I get you now, so basically the LAST set of the 1x5 is MORE than what you use for each set in the 5x5?

For example:

I'd do 200lbs for 5 straight sets when doing 5x5.

But when doing 1x5 it would look something like this - 170lbs/180lbs/190lbs/200lbs/210lbs.

This means that I'm able to lift 210lbs whereas if I were to do 210lbs for 5 straight sets on 5x5, it wouldn't be possible.


So... How am I meant to know when to increase my weights on the 5x5? If I manage 210lbs on the last set of 1x5, do I then increase my 5x5 sets to 210lbs?

You did say Keep Asking haha. But seriously, I do appreciate it all

 

[enigma4dub]

these are seperate maxes. you have a current 5x5 max and a current 1x5 max

you need to find out what they are and progress each one independently. for the beginning of the program they should be relatively easy. and your 5x5 should be a LOT less than your 1x5

 

[Vanchatron]

these are seperate maxes. you have a current 5x5 max and a current 1x5 max

you need to find out what they are and progress each one independently. for the beginning of the program they should be relatively easy. and your 5x5 should be a LOT less than your 1x5

Wow thanks, didn't know that ^^

 

[ScMc]

Just download the sample template on the site you linked to in your first post. Type in your 5RM's and it will do all the work for you for a 9 week program. Its that simple.

 

[keasbey]

davetsi your icon is amazing if thats your woman u should totally give her a high five for be awesome.. amongst other things

 

[highlander555]

Okay, I think it's a given that you can do more weight for a single set of 5 that you can do for 5 sets of 5.

It was my understanding that the 1x5 was for you to try to set a new 5 rep max. Of course you're going to have to warm up (ramp up) to this weight, so when you to the 1x5, it's not going to be your only set, but it will technically be your only "working set".

When I do the 5x5 for squats on Monday, I usually put my working sets about 10-15 lbs. lower than whatever I set for my five rep max at on Friday the week before. That's just how I like to do it, and as long as both my 5 rep max, and my 5x5 weights keep going up like they have been, then it suits me just fine.

 

[enigma4dub]

Okay, I think it's a given that you can do more weight for a single set of 5 that you can do for 5 sets of 5.

It was my understanding that the 1x5 was for you to try to set a new 5 rep max. Of course you're going to have to warm up (ramp up) to this weight, so when you to the 1x5, it's not going to be your only set, but it will technically be your only "working set".

When I do the 5x5 for squats on Monday, I usually put my working sets about 10-15 lbs. lower than whatever I set for my five rep max at on Friday the week before. That's just how I like to do it, and as long as both my 5 rep max, and my 5x5 weights keep going up like they have been, then it suits me just fine.

you are correct in that, the last set is the most important set. however after the warm ups they are considered work sets and are progressed weekly as well.