So What Do You Think About Romney's Taxes Being Stolen

[Headholio]

CEO, you had an interesting discussion with yourself on a flat tax.
I wonder why you righties are so obsessed with the fact that people who have basically nothing don't pay significant federal income tax. (But they do pay tax, lets be clear about that that).
If you tax the poor, you get no revenue, and you take away incentive to work. So, if its not for revenue, why do you want so badly to take money from poor people? Do you hate the poor? Do you view them as freeloading minorities who should be penalized for what they are, through the tax system?

Below is a good link with some good graphics on the distribution of wealth. A very few people have everything. 80% of the people only have 7% of the wealth.
The GOP feels it is very important to keep their hands off of those very few rich people, and talk frequently about getting money from those who have nothing. Not only is that immoral, it can't work. You can't balance the budget by collecting nickels and dimes while the rich light their cigars with hundred dollar bills. How do you explain your problem with poor people and your support of the very rich?

http://theunderstatement.com/post/3999331289/us-wealth-distribution-visualized

 

[digimon7068]

CEO, you had an interesting discussion with yourself on a flat tax.
I wonder why you righties are so obsessed with the fact that people who have basically nothing don't pay significant federal income tax. (But they do pay tax, lets be clear about that that).
If you tax the poor, you get no revenue, and you take away incentive to work. So, if its not for revenue, why do you want so badly to take money from poor people? Do you hate the poor? Do you view them as freeloading minorities who should be penalized for what they are, through the tax system?

Below is a good link with some good graphics on the distribution of wealth. A very few people have everything. 80% of the people only have 7% of the wealth.
The GOP feels it is very important to keep their hands off of those very few rich people, and talk frequently about getting money from those who have nothing. Not only is that immoral, it can't work. You can't balance the budget by collecting nickels and dimes while the rich light their cigars with hundred dollar bills. How do you explain your problem with poor people and your support of the very rich?

the understatement: US Wealth Distribution Visualized

under george bush's tax laws, people in the lower middle class and below pay little or no federal tax...in fact, a vast majority not only get back all the federal tax that was withheld from their waqes, but they actually get back other people's money too, in the form of refundable credits for earned income, children and education...this is one thing that i actually do know a lot about.

and, a national sales tax to supplement the federal income tax would probably be more equitable...not only would those who consume the most (i.e. the well to do) pay more than others but, it would also capture money that otherwise may not be taxed (e.g., illegal drug moeny...drug dealers buy lots of shit).

 

[Headholio]

under george bush's tax laws, people in the lower middle class and below pay little or no federal tax...in fact, a vast majority not only get back all the federal tax that was withheld from their waqes, but they actually get back other people's money too, in the form of refundable credits for earned income, children and education...this is one thing that i actually do know a lot about.

Since you know a lot about that I'll ask you to quantify how many people actually got paid, and actually ended up positive in total fed tax burden. I'd guess it is a pretty small number.
PS. You said a vast majority

and, a national sales tax to supplement the federal income tax would probably be more equitable...not only would those who consume the most (i.e. the well to do) pay more than others but, it would also capture money that otherwise may not be taxed (e.g., illegal drug moeny...drug dealers buy lots of shit).

Sounds reasonable, maybe. Exempt food and some other items to not overly burden essentials for the poor....

 

[digimon7068]

Since you know a lot about that I'll ask you to quantify how many people actually got paid, and actually ended up positive in total fed tax burden. I'd guess it is a pretty small number.
PS. You said a vast majority



Sounds reasonable, maybe. Exempt food and some other items to not overly burden essentials for the poor....

the vast majority that i was speaking of was only that lower group...here's some stats on the earned income credit from 2010...

Eligibility Criteria for Tax Year 2010:

Earned Income and adjusted gross income must each be less than:

$43,352 ($48,362 married filing jointly) with three or more qualifying children

$40,363 ($45,373 married filing jointly) with two qualifying children

$35,535 ($40,545 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child

$13,460 ($18,470 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children



Tax Year 2010 Maximum Credit:

$5,666 with three or more qualifying children

$5,036 with two qualifying children

$3,050 with one qualifying child

$457 with no qualifying children

...and, anyone that receives an earned income credit also receives a refund of all federal tax that was withheld from their wages...plus, $1,000 per child (under 17 years of age) in their household...and, for any child over 17 who was attending college, a refundable education credit of up to $2,500 was also available...in 2010, in excess of $59 billion was paid out from just the earned income tax credit.

i can dig up more shit if you want

 

[digimon7068]

the vast majority that i was speaking of was only that lower group...here's some stats on the earned income credit from 2010...

Eligibility Criteria for Tax Year 2010:

Earned Income and adjusted gross income must each be less than:

$43,352 ($48,362 married filing jointly) with three or more qualifying children

$40,363 ($45,373 married filing jointly) with two qualifying children

$35,535 ($40,545 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child

$13,460 ($18,470 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children



Tax Year 2010 Maximum Credit:

$5,666 with three or more qualifying children

$5,036 with two qualifying children

$3,050 with one qualifying child

$457 with no qualifying children

...and, anyone that receives an earned income credit also receives a refund of all federal tax that was withheld from their wages...plus, $1,000 per child (under 17 years of age) in their household...and, for any child over 17 who was attending college, a refundable education credit of up to $2,500 was also available...in 2010, in excess of $59 billion was paid out from just the earned income tax credit.

i can dig up more shit if you want

somewhere around 20% of the population falls into this category ^^^^

 

[digimon7068]

somewhere around 20% of the population falls into this category ^^^^

in 2011, approximately 45% of american households paid no federal income tax.

 

[digimon7068]

in 2011, approximately 45% of american households paid no federal income tax.

According to statistics released on July 11, 2012 by the Department of Treasury, during 2008 and 2009 (the Department is a little behind the times...it's the goverment ), the upper one-fifth of US households paid 67.9% percent of the total federal taxes, the lower one-fifth paid 0.3% of the total federal taxes and the one-fifth in the middle paid 9.4% of the total federal taxes.

Further, during the economic downturn, the top 1% of households suffered the greatest losses in income (a 36% decrease), over the period from 2007 through 2009.

Finally, the overall average effective federal tax rates of 18% in 2008 and 17.4% in 2009 were the lowest during the 30-year period from 1979 through 2009.

(i posted this ^^^ in a thread that i started on july 12)

 

[digimon7068]

and people wonder why we have a deficit...no one's paying any fucking tax!!!

 

[Headholio]

the vast majority that i was speaking of was only that lower group...here's some stats on the earned income credit from 2010...

Eligibility Criteria for Tax Year 2010:

Earned Income and adjusted gross income must each be less than:

$43,352 ($48,362 married filing jointly) with three or more qualifying children

$40,363 ($45,373 married filing jointly) with two qualifying children

$35,535 ($40,545 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child

$13,460 ($18,470 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children



Tax Year 2010 Maximum Credit:

$5,666 with three or more qualifying children

$5,036 with two qualifying children

$3,050 with one qualifying child

$457 with no qualifying children

...and, anyone that receives an earned income credit also receives a refund of all federal tax that was withheld from their wages...plus, $1,000 per child (under 17 years of age) in their household...and, for any child over 17 who was attending college, a refundable education credit of up to $2,500 was also available...in 2010, in excess of $59 billion was paid out from just the earned income tax credit.

i can dig up more shit if you want

ok digi but a refundable credit is no different than any other tax deduction of you awe more than your deductions IIRC.
There is no sense in talking about tax deductions, because we all get them, (the rich get the most of course).
So when republicans talk about those damn poor people who not only avoid taxes but get paid (!) they are talking about people who have refundable credits that exceed their total tax burden, so that they get money back. What percentage of people pay no money and get a check from Uncle Sam for refundable credits exceeding total tax due?

 

[digimon7068]

ok digi but a refundable credit is no different than any other tax deduction of you awe more than your deductions IIRC.
There is no sense in talking about tax deductions, because we all get them, (the rich get the most of course).
So when republicans talk about those damn poor people who not only avoid taxes but get paid (!) they are talking about people who have refundable credits that exceed their total tax burden, so that they get money back. What percentage of people pay no money and get a check from Uncle Sam for refundable credits exceeding total tax due?

oh no...a deduction is taken against income...a tax credit is taken against tax that is calculated on income...thus, a tax credit is significantly more valuable than a deduction...for a typical american household, a deduction is worth around 20 cents on the dollar, while a tax credit is 1-to-1 (i.e., 100 cents on the dollar)...and, we don't all get tax credits...and refundable tax credits are even more valuable because they are in excess of the tax itself...what i'm saying is that those people who qualify, not only get back all the federal tax that was withheld from their wages, they get back money that they didn't even pay in...capiche??? it's quite crazy actually.