So I'm thinking about this sniper...

[vinylgroover]

Sorry to burst your bubble on this one Vinyl but the countries with the highest murder rates have the TIGHTEST gun control laws. Take a look at the murder rates in Panama and many of the African countries.

America has a VERY low murder rate by comparison.

Sofa, point taken, but i'm talking about western democracies with a lawful society. You are citing examples of countries which are generally characterised by lawlessness, civil war etc.

 

[manny78]

Sofa, point taken, but i'm talking about western democracies with a lawful society. You are citing examples of countries which are generally characterised by lawlessness, civil war etc.

What about Mexico ?

 

[Silent Method]

Sorry to burst your bubble on this one Vinyl but the countries with the highest murder rates have the TIGHTEST gun control laws. Take a look at the murder rates in Panama and many of the African countries.

America has a VERY low murder rate by comparison.

In addition, the areas with the highest rate of firearm ownership among it's citizens have the lowest crime rates.

Take a gun away from a violent situation and what do you have? A violent situation without a gun. I will propose that the violent behavior is the ill.

BTW, sadly, violent crime rose in Australia following its strict gun control regulation.

 

[Temple]

I had a feeling the pro-gun lobby would react quickly

Manny, hate to disappoint you, but take away a gun from any violent situation and what do you have? Sure, if someone really wants to get themselves a gun they can, but on the whole, you take guns out of society and deaths drop. If you refute that you need head examined, plain and simple.

VG - the guns aren't the problem. Where I live EVERYONE has guns, they drive around with them on a rack in the back window of their pickups, or they are behind the seat and there is usually a pistol or three in the glove compartment. I don't even know for sure how many I own.. I know the is a 9mm out there and a shotgun or two and a black powder something or other and most likely a deer rifle and EVERY house in this county is armed at least as well as I am. I don't remember the last time someone here got shot. We don't have much crime of any sort because if you go sneaking around peoples houses they will shoot at you and everyone knows it...

 

[vinylgroover]

In addition, the areas with the highest rate of firearm ownership among it's citizens have the lowest crime rates.

Take a gun away from a violent situation and what do you have? A violent situation without a gun. I will propose that the violent behavior is the ill.

BTW, sadly, violent crime rose in Australia following its strict gun control regulation.

There is a difference between violent crime and death my friend.

Take a gun away from a violent situation=a reduced likelihood of death. If you can't acknowledge that, then we are poles apart.

The classic example is domestic violence. Are you telling me that during a heated domestic argument someone is just as likely to stab someone to death as they are to quickly grab for a gun and shoot that person? A gun takes away the one thing that could prevent many situations resulting in death, and that is the physical 'act' of killing. A gun distances a person from that physical act.

 

[vinylgroover]

VG - the guns aren't the problem. Where I live EVERYONE has guns, they drive around with them on a rack in the back window of their pickups, or they are behind the seat and there is usually a pistol or three in the glove compartment. I don't even know for sure how many I own.. I know the is a 9mm out there and a shotgun or two and a black powder something or other and most likely a deer rifle and EVERY house in this county is armed at least as well as I am. I don't remember the last time someone here got shot. We don't have much crime of any sort because if you go sneaking around peoples houses they will shoot at you and everyone knows it...

Temple, you will never prevent a pre-meditaed killer from doing the job. What gun control will prevent and reduce is the random or spontaneous killing which occurs as a result of a heated argument or misunderstanding or momentary loss of temper etc.

 

[Temple]

Temple, you will never prevent a pre-meditaed killer from doing the job. What gun control will prevent and reduce is the random or spontaneous killing which occurs as a result of a heated argument or misunderstanding or momentary loss of temper etc.

People here get pissed off just the same as anywhere...I almost think out domestic violence rates may be higher than many places and yet we don't have the gun related violence. The last violent death we had here was a guy caught his neighbor in bed with his wife and stabbed him to death...

 

[VicTusDeuS]

Temple, you will never prevent a pre-meditaed killer from doing the job. What gun control will prevent and reduce is the random or spontaneous killing which occurs as a result of a heated argument or misunderstanding or momentary loss of temper etc.

You just ended this topic. The sniper is not a random or spontaneous killing- gun control laws would not help in this situation...right?

 

[vinylgroover]

You just ended this topic. The sniper is not a random or spontaneous killing- gun control laws would not help in this situation...right?

Sorry, I got off topic. I wasn't necessarily referring to this act but gun control and murder in general. I guess having been brought up in a gunless society i am poles apart in thinking on this topic with the majority of Americans.

 

[Silent Method]

There is a difference between violent crime and death my friend.

Take a gun away from a violent situation=a reduced likelihood of death. If you can't acknowledge that, then we are poles apart.

The classic example is domestic violence. Are you telling me that during a heated domestic argument someone is just as likely to stab someone to death as they are to quickly grab for a gun and shoot that person? A gun takes away the one thing that could prevent many situations resulting in death, and that is the physical 'act' of killing. A gun distances a person from that physical act.

I understand your argument and their is some validity to it. In a killers mind, a gun may help them to disasociate their act of killing. In my view, and especially in a domestic situation, this is even greater testament to their disregard for human life.

You say removing a gun from a violent situation reduces the likelyhood of death. Indeed, in may situations that is the case. However, I will argue that in many situations, a gun in the hands of a potential victim reduced the likelyhood of death. In fact, FBI crime statistics have concluded that the rate of successful defense of attempted violent crimes by citizens with firearms exceeds the rate of firearm homicide.

I will restate an earlier point - in America, the areas with the highest rate of firearm ownership among it's citizens have the lowest crime rates. Evidence that, although a correlation exists between gun access and gun homicide, the gun is not the exacerbating factor - the person is.