Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below bignascarfans
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I'm interested in finding out what are the pros and cons are of using the Smith machine for Squats and Bench press?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Smith machines
- Thread starter bignascarfans
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thePros.TV
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sorry, but I have to ask,( and I'm not being a smart ass) have you ever used a Smith Machine?
bignascarfans
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bignascarfans said:
Yes. Just trying to understand the pros/cons. Why do you asked?
Jim Ouini
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thePros.TV
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bignascarfans said:
by having used one, I would think you would be able to understand... but anyway... IMHO a Smith machine is just that, a machine. buy using free weights, barbells, squat bar, your body (and mind) has to really work to lift the weight. You have to have balance, good form and strength. Same case as with bench pressing... added you will be able to see where you have a weakness. With a smith it's eaiser for one leg to take over, or one arm, etc.
You will find that you will be able to lift more lbs on a smith machine because you can be sloppy. With guide rails (a track to follow), you dont have to have good form, you follow the track of the machine, you get it?
With a smith you can go to failure with out a spotter... but your still compromising form and real strength...
They both have their place and the smith is great for rehab and like I said going to failure, but free weights reign supreme.
I'm sure some one else here can explain it better!
cubuff27
New member
Just to give you an idea of how much a smith machine takes out all the stress of an exercise to your self a test. Go do a seated military press on the Smith. Load it up so you can do the most you can for say 5 reps. Now cut that weight in half and go see if you can do 5 reps with a seated shoulder press free weight bar. You won't be able to...that is how much weight the stabilizer muscles AREN'T working on the Smith Machine. So why wast the time....Use as many muscles as possible for every exercise. Just like why poeple do one armed dumbell rows compared to bent over rows....I don't understand the concept. Half the weight...double the workout time.
I think a really fun experiment tends to be using carryover.
For instance - take your best set of 5 in the smith squat. Drop it and work on the freeweight squat over 6-8 weeks improving capacity. Now - if the free weight squat was effective, you should be able to get in the smith and within some weeks of reacclimation set a new personal record. I'd say, this would be very common, repeatable, and would be a valid expectation.
Now do the reverse, take your best free squat set, work exclusively in the smith getting a solid increase over time, and transition back. What generally happens is that even after some reacclimation there is no new PR, sometimes performance just drops to the crapper in the regular squat.
Obviously, this isn't as valid for a novice where anything can work and give progression (free squat will still outperform smith though), but that's kind of a good way to look at these things. If something really worked to make you fundementally bigger and stronger, you'd see those increases in the core lifts in fairly short order.
For instance - take your best set of 5 in the smith squat. Drop it and work on the freeweight squat over 6-8 weeks improving capacity. Now - if the free weight squat was effective, you should be able to get in the smith and within some weeks of reacclimation set a new personal record. I'd say, this would be very common, repeatable, and would be a valid expectation.
Now do the reverse, take your best free squat set, work exclusively in the smith getting a solid increase over time, and transition back. What generally happens is that even after some reacclimation there is no new PR, sometimes performance just drops to the crapper in the regular squat.
Obviously, this isn't as valid for a novice where anything can work and give progression (free squat will still outperform smith though), but that's kind of a good way to look at these things. If something really worked to make you fundementally bigger and stronger, you'd see those increases in the core lifts in fairly short order.
musketeer
New member
The problem with the Smith Machine is not immediately obvious, especially to a beginner. When I first saw the smith machine back in 1993 or so after a couple years of training, I thought that it must have been the best invention in BBing! I've now realised that it actually increases the potential for injury instead of making exercises 'safer':
The straight line 'groove' that the smith machine forces the barbell to travel is unlike anything that your body would press with a 'free' bar. This means that when you bench press a barbell, the actual movement follows a very subtle arc or even S-shaped path in it's acent/decent. In fact, it's probably safe to say that the lowering of the bar is also slightly different from the raising of the weight. This is the same for ALL compound movements that can or cannot be 'replicated' on the Smith: squats, deads, OHP, bent/upright rows...
The problem occurs when the complex network of synergistic muscles (such as rotator cuff, rhomboids, etc) that support the bench press are forced to adjust their lengthening/shortening and joint manipulation (such as the scapula and collar bone that make up the AC joint) to the straight line imposed by the smith machine.
The smith machine will cause imbalances in functional strength which increase with the more strength you gain on smith exercises. Try applying strength gained on the smith to real world situations, and you will find that you are laking the core and balance and are likely to strain youself when performing maximally.
The straight line 'groove' that the smith machine forces the barbell to travel is unlike anything that your body would press with a 'free' bar. This means that when you bench press a barbell, the actual movement follows a very subtle arc or even S-shaped path in it's acent/decent. In fact, it's probably safe to say that the lowering of the bar is also slightly different from the raising of the weight. This is the same for ALL compound movements that can or cannot be 'replicated' on the Smith: squats, deads, OHP, bent/upright rows...
The problem occurs when the complex network of synergistic muscles (such as rotator cuff, rhomboids, etc) that support the bench press are forced to adjust their lengthening/shortening and joint manipulation (such as the scapula and collar bone that make up the AC joint) to the straight line imposed by the smith machine.
The smith machine will cause imbalances in functional strength which increase with the more strength you gain on smith exercises. Try applying strength gained on the smith to real world situations, and you will find that you are laking the core and balance and are likely to strain youself when performing maximally.
bignascarfans said:
I have used both the model that is 90 degrees and the one set back 7 degrees.
Liked them both a lot; liked the set back the most.
musketeer
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NorgePrecision
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BiggT said:
Ha, I do that too. I only use it otherwise every other shoulder workout and I never just use that.
bignascarfans
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Thanks for all the feedback. I appreciate it.
Free weights it is from now on!
Free weights it is from now on!
blut wump
New member
I do one single shoulder press on the Smith machine two or three times a week, pretty much regardless of what weight was left sitting on it. The Smith machine is right next to the squat rack so, rather than ducking under and around the bar, I lift the Smith bar up out of irritation's way.
It doesn't seem to have done any harm at all to my delts. Great machine.
Interesting experiment, madcow. I'm occasionally tempted to return to the gym I used to work out at and see what difference to my Smith bench free weights have made. When I left that gym in March, my Smith bench was at 135Kg for a triple. I never quite managed to press three plates but I quit the gym the week I got the triple. I've since pressed 3 plates on free weights after about 6 months work. There's a chance I'll be doing some work near there again in which case, since they have a great cardio selection, I'll probably join that gym for a convenient lunch-time workout. If I do, I'll report back.
It doesn't seem to have done any harm at all to my delts. Great machine.
Interesting experiment, madcow. I'm occasionally tempted to return to the gym I used to work out at and see what difference to my Smith bench free weights have made. When I left that gym in March, my Smith bench was at 135Kg for a triple. I never quite managed to press three plates but I quit the gym the week I got the triple. I've since pressed 3 plates on free weights after about 6 months work. There's a chance I'll be doing some work near there again in which case, since they have a great cardio selection, I'll probably join that gym for a convenient lunch-time workout. If I do, I'll report back.
The gym I'm using at the moment has a king of '3D' Smith machine - instead of a strict up-down motion, the bar is free to travel up/down and forwards/backwards (i.e. the side bars are mounted on rollers at the top and bottom). Anyone ever seen/used these? The bar is still constrained so that it can't move side-to-side, or tilt in any direction.
The crap thing is that it's the only way I can safely do heavy squats - there's no squat rack, not even anywhere to mount the bar at the right level. When I train legs there I notice the fact that the bar can't move sideways or tilt, and also the friction issues (going down with the squat motion is deceptively easy, and then it's a struggle to get it moving again from the hole!).
I got pissed off with this after a few weeks so now I pay through the nose to get to a gym with a proper squat rack once a week. I can then call my shitty machine-squat day a 'power' or 'active recovery' training session safe in the knowledge that there will be REAL squats in 3-4 days time!
Mark
The crap thing is that it's the only way I can safely do heavy squats - there's no squat rack, not even anywhere to mount the bar at the right level. When I train legs there I notice the fact that the bar can't move sideways or tilt, and also the friction issues (going down with the squat motion is deceptively easy, and then it's a struggle to get it moving again from the hole!).
I got pissed off with this after a few weeks so now I pay through the nose to get to a gym with a proper squat rack once a week. I can then call my shitty machine-squat day a 'power' or 'active recovery' training session safe in the knowledge that there will be REAL squats in 3-4 days time!
Mark
