smartest man in the world only takes in 100-150 grams of protien :)

[nclifter6feet6]

nclifter you only eat 100gm/day ??
do you space it out evenly or post workout or what?

actually somedays about 60 grams of protein for the day. but i replace those cals with more carbs.

ever heard of bill pearl, he eats about the same way



by the way. high protien back in the day around 60's was considerd 200. now high protien is considerd 400-500 this is when supplment companies came along

 

[DanielBishop]

I don't BLINDLY follow anything.

But I don't selectively post science which only gels with my own opinion either. Yes, we should hear both sides.... I agree with you on that. It was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Vageta]

There is a good article over at T-mag from the last week or two that discusses protein. I generally regard most of what T-mag publishes as fodder, however I do like to read what the Berardi brothers have to say.

They claim what most of us already know, that protein recommendations for muscle gain are generally overrated and that we can gain muscle on far less than what you read in the mags. Nitrogen balance has a greater impact on protein synthesis than some magic protein x bodyweight formula.

However there are many other advantages to eating high protein than just "muscle gain". Since the thermal effect of protein is significantly higher than than protein or carbs, you can actually eat more of it since the body burns a greater % of it during digestion. Which means those who are eating a diet with a higher % of protein can eat more food than someone who eats a very low % since the net calories will be different. You can read the article to read what else they have to say.

I also have to side with DanielBishop on this one. Closed-minded is when you disregard 15 studies that lead to the same conclusion and instead find that one lone study that challenges the rest and then take it as gospel. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing your own research and experiments, but bucking the trend simply because YOU think it's wrong doesn't make YOU anymore right.

Nclifter, I like you have always experimented with diet and researched numerous theories that go against the grain. I however have never posted on this message board and claimed I was correct beyond a shadow of a doubt and that everyone else was wrong. Besides I've been on these boards for years and I've seen you post over a dozen of your "ultimate" diet plans. In each one you have a different rationalization as why your way works and in a lot of cases you have hypocritized your own previous posts. If you can look back and say you were mistaken before, what's to make you so confident that you are right now?

You have to also remember each of us are different. Bill Pearl may have been able to build a lot of muscle eating like a vegetarian and consuming 60g of protein per day, but he probably had incredible genetics to help him out. Try that method of low protein and vegetarian diet with an ectomorph, or even a genetically "average" person, and you'd be hard pressed to see any significant weight gain.

Bottom line is no one has it right yet. If they did then there would be no question to the "best" method and everyone would follow it. While I personally don't eat insane amount of protein I would never go so low as you recommend in your diet, in fact I think 1g per kilogram of bodyweight as an absolute bare minumum and for most of us I don't think going up to 1.5x that amount is anywhere near overkill.

Please continue your experiments, I'm sure alot of people enjoy seeing your results. Hell I'm always interested. Just promote them as experiments and theories and let the results speak for themselves. Just don't come off as so above everyone else because your way is the best, I think it turns a lot of people off to your theories.

 

[nclifter6feet6]

There is a good article over at T-mag from the last week or two that discusses protein. I generally regard most of what T-mag publishes as fodder, however I do like to read what the Berardi brothers have to say.

They claim what most of us already know, that protein recommendations for muscle gain are generally overrated and that we can gain muscle on far less than what you read in the mags. Nitrogen balance has a greater impact on protein synthesis than some magic protein x bodyweight formula.

However there are many other advantages to eating high protein than just "muscle gain". Since the thermal effect of protein is significantly higher than than protein or carbs, you can actually eat more of it since the body burns a greater % of it during digestion. Which means those who are eating a diet with a higher % of protein can eat more food than someone who eats a very low % since the net calories will be different. You can read the article to read what else they have to say.

I also have to side with DanielBishop on this one. Closed-minded is when you disregard 15 studies that lead to the same conclusion and instead find that one lone study that challenges the rest and then take it as gospel. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing your own research and experiments, but bucking the trend simply because YOU think it's wrong doesn't make YOU anymore right.

Nclifter, I like you have always experimented with diet and researched numerous theories that go against the grain. I however have never posted on this message board and claimed I was correct beyond a shadow of a doubt and that everyone else was wrong. Besides I've been on these boards for years and I've seen you post over a dozen of your "ultimate" diet plans. In each one you have a different rationalization as why your way works and in a lot of cases you have hypocritized your own previous posts. If you can look back and say you were mistaken before, what's to make you so confident that you are right now?

You have to also remember each of us are different. Bill Pearl may have been able to build a lot of muscle eating like a vegetarian and consuming 60g of protein per day, but he probably had incredible genetics to help him out. Try that method of low protein and vegetarian diet with an ectomorph, or even a genetically "average" person, and you'd be hard pressed to see any significant weight gain.

Bottom line is no one has it right yet. If they did then there would be no question to the "best" method and everyone would follow it. While I personally don't eat insane amount of protein I would never go so low as you recommend in your diet, in fact I think 1g per kilogram of bodyweight as an absolute bare minumum and for most of us I don't think going up to 1.5x that amount is anywhere near overkill.

Please continue your experiments, I'm sure alot of people enjoy seeing your results. Hell I'm always interested. Just promote them as experiments and theories and let the results speak for themselves. Just don't come off as so above everyone else because your way is the best, I think it turns a lot of people off to your theories.

you seem to have forgotten leptin. and carbs are what keep leptin levels optimal. when your liver glycogen is empty(absense of carbs) your metabolism drops and you feel shitty.

you mentioned about more of a thermal effect with protien. this may be true. but replacing these calories with carbs could make for higher leptin. carbs have more of an effect on leptin than protien. fat has little to no effect on leptin.

there are pro's and cons to carbs and protien. but tell me this. you will feel a hell of alot better on just a plain high carb diet as apposed to a plain high protien diet with equal amount of calories.why? because your brain needs at least 100 grams of carbs a day to function. if your brain isnt functioning optimally what do you think happens to the rest of your body? because low carb diets as we all know are a bitch to stick too especially if its low fat aswell. a high carb diet is a breeze and u get better results even at least from my trials. you dont feel sluggish on a higher carb diet


why do you think so many people whine when they go on low carbs and are so hungry? or ckds and binge out?your body was meant to run on carbs.

you and guys like vageta daniel bishop, Him1and these asshole juiceheads always diss my posts i dare you to post your pics sinse you obviously know what your doing. correct? just like you said, lemme quote you 'let the results speak for themselves"-vageta.im just tryin to save some one a few bucks

yes ive tried many diets and the next best things or whatever. and the high carb low protien is best for ME. and you can be the judge if my results speak for themselves. to bad i cannot use my friends webcam anymore for about a month or so because he will be out of town, but i certainly look foward to posting pics and making you guys wonder "how the fuck he do that on 100 grams of protien a day?" by the way progress with current diet ( 200 carbs 100 protien 10 fats) is going especially well. the abs are even more tight than in my last pic. i look foward to showing off my cheesegrader abs while u guys shuvel that protien on your ckds and other bs diets and feeling sluggish from 0 carbs ......anyhow good luck fellow dieters

 

[mranderson]

1290 cals per day and you have energy? you do have a good point about what works for one might not work for another that point is clear, because your diet would turn me into a fat slob, i do not process carbs efficiantly there for a high carb diet is out of the question, on the other hand i do not do well on a CKD style diet so where dose that leave me? well some where right in the middle im cutting on a 2400 cal diet and my carbs are right around 220, protein around 200 and the rest are EFA and general fats, fact of the matter is i do not gain with much less protein and i dont burn fat with much more carbs, what works for me is simple timeing 90% of my carb intake is in 2 PWO meals aside from a couple servings of fruit threw out the day, my other meals are a few small protein/fat meals. I guess what im getting at is different folks different strokes

 

[Vageta]

Not sure why you turned your response into a low carb argument. I never mentioned anything of that nature in my post and I know you've never seen any of my posts boasting about a low carb diet. I don't see why you can't have a high protein and carb diet. I tend to like 40/40/20 or other near iso-caloric ratios myself. Get the benefits of higher protein intake, don't miss out on carbs and still get some fats. I've even had great results on 40/30/30 with the 40 being carbs. Fact is 30% of the calories from protein on a 2000 calorie diet is still 150g, which is a nice moderate intake without "trying" to force down protein. I'd find it damn hard to get 100g or less protein per day without making a hard effort at it. Protein is naturally in a lot of whole carb sources, once you add in some meat or dairy you're at 20-30g at each meal. Eat 5-6x a day and you're well over 100g.

At any rate I've seen your pics and I think you're in great shape. I've also seen your pics from quite awhile ago and you were in great shape then as well. This leads me to believe that you tend to be able to keep in shape with just about any diet/exercise method you've tried, and there's been a lot, so genetically speaking you seem to respond well to just about anything. I don't however think the average joe will respond so well to what your latest recommendations are. That is my opinion and that's all I've ever claimed it to be. It is not written in stone, nor is the fact that your diet works good simply because you yourself respond to it.

As far as my pics, I've posted them before. I wasn't at the time, nor am I now in as good as shape as you. Since my last posted pics I've had a busy year with a new baby and working out of town for 3 months. Unfortunately that meant living on a lot of restaurant food and restricted gym time. And those with kids can tell you of the cortisol boosting effects a newborn baby can cause . But that's no excuse, my priorities changed and my physique suffered a bit. I'm back to dieting this spring and will hopefully be down to 8%. However judging someone's knowledge of diet and exercise by how they look isn't always the wisest thing to do. If it were true then Ronnie Coleman would be gods gift to the dieting world. However the majority of us, minus the poor muscle magazine readers, know this isn't the truth.

If you wanted to learn about fat loss and dieting who would you ask? A naturally lean ectomorph or someone how used to be a tub of lard who has gotten themselves into shape with hard work? Sure the ectomorph may still be leaner than the other guy but does that mean he knows more about fat loss, or is it simply because it happens so easily for him than he doesn't have to know? I've never seen you even remotely chubby in any of your pics so it's hard for me to believe you find it hard to get lean. I personally was pretty damn fat a few years ago and through diet and exercise managed to lose 45 pounds in 14 weeks. Some of it was muscle due to me being over zealous in my weight loss plan, but in the years that have passed I have become a much smarter dieter and am always giving out advice to people at work and family members that want to know how I did it.

I am in as good as shape as you right now? Nope. Does that mean you know more about diet and nutrition than me simply because you are? Nope. On the other hand even with that in mind perhaps you do know more than me. Personally I'm not out to prove otherwise, just trying to open minds a bit.

I'm on your side my friend, but being a realist I would just like to see you post your experiments and theories as just that and not come off like you've discovered the golden egg of dieting. I'm glad what you're doing works for you, and hell maybe it could work for me. I'd just love to see you track your progress as you are doing so we can draw our own conclusions on your methods.

By the way I'll post a link to my before/after pics from last year. I don't have any recent pics right now but nonetheless I'm proud of my accomplishments. By the time summer hits I will have new pics that will hopefully be as dramatic as the old ones.


My pics

 

[nclifter6feet6]

its kinda hard coming off as "nice" when everyone acts like a dickface when i bascially post new ideas. but its all good gives me somthing to do in the afternoons besides studying or looking at porn or talking on the phone with women that like to play head games with me!grrrrrr

but you shouldnt even go there with saying im in decent shape no matter what i do. I dont let my self blimp much over 15 percent. the training i do if i posted up my routine on the training board, everyone would bitch and cry "oooooooohhhh your overtraining, i would die on that routine, your going to loose muscle". some times i run 8 miles at a time or do sprints over and over for 1 hour and a half while listening to Alice n Chains. my cardio sessions are all out efforts just like my weight training is. People seem so afraid of overtraining on these boards and so afraid of doing too many sprints or cardio.


sometimes i eat really bad or have the craving for a box of krispy kremes. but i know what i gotta do to burn that shit off man. and that means some intense cardio. but that makes me that much stronger when i over eat and then blast the cardio the next day on some sprints. i condition myself more and more. my legs feel like they get faster and quicker as well, my heart and lung endurance has never been better. i remember a few months back in winter when i was around 265-270 i could STILL run 5 miles fairly easy and at a decent pace.

my weight blimps up and down. because ive tried unsuccessfully to try and bulk and gain mass fast. but the mass doesnt come fast enough for me and i dont like being fat. thats why i got up so heavy at 270 this winter because i was trying my damnest to bulk but didnt gain that much muscle. but i was gaining muscle. bulking is fun though but it is also unhealthy. and my thighs were rubbing together when i did cardio because they were so fat and big. they still somewhat rub even now because ive developed them alot from sprints.

i regret i shouldve pulled a "B-Fold the truth" and just bulked for the first few years so i wouldnt have to worry about putting on mass.

i progress best with cardio 7 days a week alternating 5 mile runs on one day and 1 hour sprints on the next. every now and then i get crazy and run 8or9 miles or do sprints for an hour and a half but i gotta have some kinda heavy metal playing like my favorite band Alice n Chains. To bad the lead singer is dead RIP. i just try to find something thats motivational, i recommend getting the album "dirt" byt Alice n Chains they fuckin rock

nice change by the way man!

 

[nclifter6feet6]

1290 cals per day and you have energy? you do have a good point about what works for one might not work for another that point is clear, because your diet would turn me into a fat slob, i do not process carbs efficiantly there for a high carb diet is out of the question, on the other hand i do not do well on a CKD style diet so where dose that leave me? well some where right in the middle im cutting on a 2400 cal diet and my carbs are right around 220, protein around 200 and the rest are EFA and general fats, fact of the matter is i do not gain with much less protein and i dont burn fat with much more carbs, what works for me is simple timeing 90% of my carb intake is in 2 PWO meals aside from a couple servings of fruit threw out the day, my other meals are a few small protein/fat meals. I guess what im getting at is different folks different strokes

its all about what kind of calories they are.

my first choice is skim milk -for carbs

but ive dabbled before with mainly all whole fruits and this works just as well and has more of a filling effect than skim milk.-for carbs

oatmeal and grains do not agree with me they only make me more hungry, same with sweet potatoes and beans and br0wn rice. the so called good complex carbohydrates only make me want to eat more of them

whole fruits(apples oranges bananas) are the best and milk. they will give you that energy through the day

think about it you can eat 4 apples and 4 oranges and STILL only be at 160 carbs for the day. thats 8 whole peices of fruit. thats alot it will definitly fill you up. eat one peice of fruit per hour. but i would recommend eating more carbs though

 

[Vageta]

Ahh, I'm glad I finally got a nice thought out response from you I can certainly understand the defensiveness from some of the responses. I've seen your training methods, and while I think you're a phsyco(in a good way), I'd never be able to train like that. Not because I'm in fear of overtraining, I simply couldn't push myself that hard. Not to mention I personally get really good results with 3x a week training, working legs only once, and honestly don't think more would be better for me. My legs only require one brief workout a week and they'll grow so I really don't see the need for more as it may actually be too much.

Even when I was back in high school and in really good physical and cardiovascular shape I just never enjoyed that much activity. Sure I played sports and even boxed with friends on the weekends which is a huge workout in itself, but I've always just been lazy when it comes to exercise. Even though I could run a quick 400m I hated doing it. Sprinting was fun though and it's usually the type of cardio I end up doing when I finally break down and do it. Right now I'm doing some rope jumping intervals to get in the cardio groove and I tend to feel like puking at the end so it must be working.

At any rate as I said before if it works then keep going. I've done the low calorie diet before and while I lost fat I also lost muscle and had a hard time coming off the diet without going nuts on food. The only way I could do it successfully would be to refeed every couple days, or do like Par Deus was doing and refeed every other day for about 6 hours.

As far as you always being in shape, it's only because I've seen you posting for over a year now and your stats always seem to suggest it. I've never seen you post an off season weight or bf% but by your pics you just look like someone who is in shape year round. Judging by your workouts you definately are doing plenty to stay in shape so I apologize if my assumption lessened your hard work.

I haven't seen any updates about your condition lately so please keep us informed. You say your have a hard time getting your six pack to really show up so I'd like to see you accomplish it. That is my goal this year as I haven't really seen my abs since high school I got some hints of them last year but fell short of my goal due to the baby and all. It will happen this year!

 

[My End Over Mad her]

I don't understand why everyone always jumps to argue with NC lifter. It may appear that he trys to say his way is the way, but I fail to see that for some reason. All i see is a guy who likes to try new things and if what he does works for him then that is fine. Basically I think that everyone takes his words as personal stabs at individuals. I myself disgregard anything that may seem as an attack on "the norm" that comes out of NC lifters mouth. All everone does is reply to him and says that he is a jackass, but that doesn't enlighten us. I enjoy nc lifters posts as they are different and he trys new things im not saying people here dont try new things, but putting aside his cockyness or overly defensive nature which i really dont think exists because it doesnt in my world, he posts some strange or different posts which will generate argument, thats great. keep up the futile arguments