Shotokan Karate

[ErikZ]

Hi, I live in Sao Paulo (Brazil) and I have recently started Shotokan Karate as a MARTIAL ART, and NOT as a sport. Thus, the focus of the lessons are self defense, and to improve fitness, agility, reflexes etc etc... and NOT to participate in championships.

My Sensei is an 8th dan Japanese guy... (There are 10 dans in the Karate Black Belt (also known as Shodan) and he is 8)...

I would like to know what you guys think of karate (taking in consideration that the karate I am talking about is the traditional martial art, Shotokan Karate, and not Karate as a sport)

Thank You guys in advance

Cheers

and Keep Training

 

[ErikZ]

Up?

 

[ErikZ]

Can someone help me?

 

[saint808]

it's best for short stalky type guys.... i have been taking private lessons andlet me tell you big shoulders really help.

 

[ErikZ]

it's best for short stalky type guys.... i have been taking private lessons andlet me tell you big shoulders really help.

I am that kind of guy... 1.75 with broad shoulders...

So, do you think some of the moves in Shotokan Karate can provide a good self defense?

Thank you for replying man

 

[saint808]

I am that kind of guy... 1.75 with broad shoulders...

So, do you think some of the moves in Shotokan Karate can provide a good self defense?

Thank you for replying man

definately... it's very power based... i think you will like it.

 

[ErikZ]

Yeah... thanx dude

 

[digger]

It's a classic style, of course; looks impressive as hell if done right and very satisfying. You'll be expected to put in a lot of hours (relative to some other schools) to get to advanced rank and techniques.

There's a book done by an MD who was also a karateka, "The Medical Implications of Karate Blows." I'm pretty sure he was a shotokan student. Perhaps he flatters himself, but for each technique, he gives the ultimate outcome as "death." Well, yeah, if the guy stands there like the heavy bag... but even then, a skull does not break the same way as a half-inch of dry pine. I remember being very disappointed the first time I did light-contact sparring at an ishin-ryu school; caught my opponent with a perfect sidekick, and he didn't fall down and die. Then again, neither did I when he caught me in return. It was a most educational experience.)

 

[LARGELI]

watch the early UFC's and if youre from Brazil then you should know that karate is not usefull for self defense.
you say several times that you are not in it for sport, well the first UFC's and Vale Tudo events were not for sport either......Helio Gracie challenged common street thugs, and local tough guys to fight him to prove that BJJ works in a real street fight self defense situation, not for sport. The UFC's and Vale Tudo were a place for people to test their style of martial art to see which was superior, and karate only proved that its worthless in a real fight.
you also mentioned the traditional aspect of karate.....tradition means that it does not change or evolve, and therefore can not become better.
Karate promotes you to different belt colors based on how long youve trained instead of how much youve improved. When you see a 10 year old kid walk out of a dojo with a black belt around his waist then you tend to think of that martial art as a joke!

I think you know all this already because youre from Brazil, and i honestly think you are just posting this for fun. Theres no way someone from Brazil could consider karate for self defense.

 

[ErikZ]

watch the early UFC's and if youre from Brazil then you should know that karate is not usefull for self defense.
you say several times that you are not in it for sport, well the first UFC's and Vale Tudo events were not for sport either......Helio Gracie challenged common street thugs, and local tough guys to fight him to prove that BJJ works in a real street fight self defense situation, not for sport. The UFC's and Vale Tudo were a place for people to test their style of martial art to see which was superior, and karate only proved that its worthless in a real fight.
you also mentioned the traditional aspect of karate.....tradition means that it does not change or evolve, and therefore can not become better.
Karate promotes you to different belt colors based on how long youve trained instead of how much youve improved. When you see a 10 year old kid walk out of a dojo with a black belt around his waist then you tend to think of that martial art as a joke!

I think you know all this already because youre from Brazil, and i honestly think you are just posting this for fun. Theres no way someone from Brazil could consider karate for self defense.

Dude, I am not doing this for fun...
If you watch the K9 Martial Arts Tournament, there was one edition that a BRAZILIAN KARATEKA (1.95m, 100kg) won...

Vale Tudo you can easily learn on the streets... for as the name implies "everything goes"...

 

[Spanky11]

Ok, I have a fair amount of experience in karate (meaning that I know nothing - the more you train the less you know)....anyways shotokan is good for the things you described, but as you are not training with contact when you spar, it can lead to a false sense of security.

I have done kyokushin for 12 years and have seen my share of shotokan guys spar and the look of shock on their face when they assume a deep kiba dachi and then throw a lightening fast reverse punch and when it didn't have the desired effect they panic.

that said, as a martial art its good for discipline and all that stuff - it unfortunately doesn't have a good cross effect to the street.

the guy you mentioned was Francisco Filho, and he also trains in kyokushin.

 

[RASRAS]

I dont know much about Shotokan Karate but I do Wada Ryu Karate and it does work on the street as know people who have used it and it worked really well for them. But as I said I don't know anything about Shotokan Karate so this may be totally different.

 

[LARGELI]

Dude, I am not doing this for fun...
If you watch the K9 Martial Arts Tournament, there was one edition that a BRAZILIAN KARATEKA (1.95m, 100kg) won...

Vale Tudo you can easily learn on the streets... for as the name implies "everything goes"...

K-1 is has rules.

Vale Tudo isnt a style of fighting so you cant "learn" it. Vale Tudo is "everything goes" as you said, which is what you will encounter on the street. you said you were in karate for self defense. well if karate is such a good system of self defense then why is it that all the Muay Thai guys, and BJJ guys, and wrestlers are the ones winning these Vale Tudo fights?

if some dude tries to mug you on the streets are you gonna tell him "ok i will fight you, but only with K1 rules"

Its been proven that 90% of all street fights end up on the ground.....what good will karate do you on the ground? Im not dissing karate completey....take karate but take a ground fighting art as well, you are kidding yourself if you think that karate alone is gonna save your life one day.

 

[ErikZ]

K-1 is has rules.

Vale Tudo isnt a style of fighting so you cant "learn" it. Vale Tudo is "everything goes" as you said, which is what you will encounter on the street. you said you were in karate for self defense. well if karate is such a good system of self defense then why is it that all the Muay Thai guys, and BJJ guys, and wrestlers are the ones winning these Vale Tudo fights?

if some dude tries to mug you on the streets are you gonna tell him "ok i will fight you, but only with K1 rules"

Its been proven that 90% of all street fights end up on the ground.....what good will karate do you on the ground? Im not dissing karate completey....take karate but take a ground fighting art as well, you are kidding yourself if you think that karate alone is gonna save your life one day.

Well, I liked the guy who trained kyokushin... Cool dude
So, my sparring is without CONTACT BECAUSE I AM A NEWBIE hehe
the Shodans (black belts) and browns etc spar with contact...

The philosphy of my Dojo (Butoku-Kan, 8th Dan Sensei Taketo Okuda) is "With karate, you define the fight with you move, you do not wait for it to start when you are on the ground"

Yeah, BJJ is pretty cool, maybe i'll try that later... however, it only works on a 1x1 kinda floor thing right?

Vale Tudo has many Muay Thai and BJJ because those huge guys are on the sports... it is trendy to be in BJJ and Muay Thai in Brazil... If we had more huge, violent, testosterone packed guys in Karate, they would probably be in the Vale Tudo things...

Keep up the talk guys, and thanx so far huh

Cheers

 

[ErikZ]

Also, a guitar teacher i know is black belt in shotokan, and a guy tried to mug him...
He kicked the aggressor's ass badly...

 

[LARGELI]

ericB you are right about BJJ not being usefull for more then 1 attacker, but i think that goes for every martial art. And yes if dudes were juiced up and did karate they could kick ass over the average person.
I would use karate to learn balance, coordination, and basic strikes but i wouldnt neglect a ground fighting art.

 

[RASRAS]

In some forms of Karate and if you have a good teacher they will teach you how to fight in all positions for example in the Karate I do (again its Wada Ryui so it may be different) the majority is based on stood up but we also do ground fighting (which is the best part if you ask me) but then again we also incorporate all styles of martial arts so we use taditional karate, modern karate, capoeira, TKD etc.

 

[ErikZ]

ericB you are right about BJJ not being usefull for more then 1 attacker, but i think that goes for every martial art. And yes if dudes were juiced up and did karate they could kick ass over the average person.
I would use karate to learn balance, coordination, and basic strikes but i wouldnt neglect a ground fighting art.

Sure, I agree...Maybe i can incorporate some BJJ into my karate...

Like, i am a relatively strong guy for 16 years old...

I work out and stuf...

So, my teacher is a very very comptente Sensei who always refers to stuff like "In a fight, you can't ask to go to the toilet. In a fight, you don't know what move your attacker will throw... Concetrate etc..." and stuff like that

He kind of gives us hints on self defense..
I like him...

However, BJJ sounds interesting too

 

[ErikZ]

Up

 

[Atomic Punk]

Some types of traditional Japanese hard-styles of Karate would work in a no-holds-barred street fight in my opinion.. I took Uechi-Ryu (an Okinawan style) for awhile before I hurt my Neck. It emphesizes alot of open-handed, knife-edged techniques to vital parts of the body like the eyes & throat. All of the kicks used in Uechi are basic as well. No high kicks, or spinning kicks. Mostly straight strikes to the groin and knees. Uechi-Ryu also emphesized body-conditioning, which I liked as well.

I would've, in retrospect, liked to have had some joint-locking techniques tought as well, but that isn't part of that style, so they won't teach it.

I always thought that Hapkido, a Korean Style which is a combo of upright fighting techniques, joint-locking, throws, as well as some ground techniques, seemed like one of the more COMPLETE styles I have seen.

 

[rodneyabs]

BRO

you live in sao paulo brasil? two words bro, CHUTE BOXE. in sao paulo. Vanderlei silva, Pele (formerly a member), anderson silva. These men are some of the top fighters in the world, and are absolutely incredible at muay thai and bjj.

Not to mention the brazilian jiu jitsu clubs all around you. I"m SHOCKED a brazilian would choose shotokan over bjj. i'm stunned.

 

[rahj12]

Machida
Might change some of those thoughts. The key imo is his ability in 3 different styles. BJJ, Karate, and Mui Thai.

 

[Nomadic Dreamer]

shotokan is a cool sport.....it's good to play around and challenge yourself, but I wouldn't use it to be a "badass"

I took shotokan for a while....fun and had some good stuff in it.

I cleaned up my spinning hook kick while training in that. I also took kenpo took.