Short Cycles

[alphatest]

What are peoples thoughts on running short cycles (2 weeks in length with 4 weeks off)? I like the idea of minimal suppression yet still allowing for some keep able gains. I realize that this sort of cycle will in no way return the results of longer cycles, but I'm hoping that over a slightly longer period of time the effects will still be there without the dramatic increase in body size.

I'm mostly looking to supplement my mma training. I've been training using compound lifts (3x5 and then 5x5 programs) for about 2 years.

The cycle I was thinking of running looks like

1-2
75mg prop ed
30mg dbol ed
.5mg arimidex ed

2-4
25mg clomid (boost natural test) ed

4-6
Off

Then repeat

 

[daveyboy2345]

I personally wouldn't go any shorter than 4 weeks on 6 weeks off, imho.

 

[GUARDIAN]

i think it would be a waste of time. i have seen something like this proposed in a book. did u come up with this on your own?

 

[therugger]

I saw something old before about study done on 4 week short cycles, and it showed results. I have no urge to even try that, but I understand it can be effective. As far as 2 weeks seems useless to me, but who knows. I think the short cycle thing I read was about a german national team way back or something like that

 

[Nelson Montana]

Having been the first to write about this in the 90's I think I'm qualified to give an opinion on it. I used to advocate one month cycles to avoid suppression. It was first met with a lot of derision, then it caught on. That concept was then copied and rearranged in many ways by the herd of gurus that were popular at the time.

I've always said that 2 week 2 week off cycles were stupid. That was Bill Roberts idiotic rip-off of my concept.

10 years after the fact, I believe 6 weeks on, 12 weeks off is the optimum length if you want to maintain a non supressed HPTA. If not, there's really no debate. people will say they like this or that but it still comes down to the same answer. Excessive dosage and duration will permanently effect future gains and hormone levels.

 

[enacer420nj]

Having been the first to write about this in the 90's I think I'm qualified to give an opinion on it. I used to advocate one month cycles to avoid suppression. It was first met with a lot of derision, then it caught on. That concept was then copied and rearranged in many ways by the herd of gurus that were popular at the time.

I've always said that 2 week 2 week off cycles were stupid. That was Bill Roberts idiotic rip-off of my concept.

10 years after the fact, I believe 6 weeks on, 12 weeks off is the optimum length if you want to maintain a non supressed HPTA. If not, there's really no debate. people will say they like this or that but it still comes down to the same answer. Excessive dosage and duration will permanently effect future gains and hormone levels.

Im assuming you recommend HCG as well as unleashed for PCT on short cycles....When you say excessices dosage and duration would you consider my currect cycle which is 16 weeks test cyp 400 and 14 eq 400 with hcg throughout to be excessive?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Im assuming you recommend HCG as well as unleashed for PCT on short cycles....When you say excessices dosage and duration would you consider my currect cycle which is 16 weeks test cyp 400 and 14 eq 400 with hcg throughout to be excessive?

After 6 weeks, suppression increases exponentially. You do the math.

I do recommend HCG and UNLEASHED after a short cycle. It just helps getting the body normalized, which is what PCT is all about. People think PCT is a cure. It is not. You can't just do MORE pct or LONGER pct and fix everything. Do too many cycles and no PCT in the world will ever bring you back to normal.

 

[enacer420nj]

After 6 weeks, suppression increases exponentially. You do the math.

I do recommend HCG and UNLEASHED after a short cycle. It just helps getting the body normalized, which is what PCT is all about. People think PCT is a cure. It is not. You can't just do MORE pct or LONGER pct and fix everything. Do too many cycles and no PCT in the world will ever bring you back to normal.

I would think you would only way fast acting esters in this short of a cycle then right? If you ran primo and test e you might just start to feel it and then the cycles over

 

[alphatest]

i think it would be a waste of time. i have seen something like this proposed in a book. did u come up with this on your own?

No I have heard of people on other boards having success with it. I first read about the protocol on MESO as described by Bill Roberts. His case study, complete with pictures, and blood work seemed very interesting, which is why I'm asking about it here.

Nelson
I read a decent amount of Roberts writing and I don't think he ever advocated 2 on 2 off as it would be insufficient for full recovery. I could be wrong on this point though.

At what point does the hpta become fully suppressed? I was under the impression that at around 4 weeks significant testicular atrophy sets in. At that point why not run for a full 8 or 10 weeks if the suppression is almost the same?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Short acting esters have nothing to do with it. All steroids are bioavailable within a few hours.

alpha test: Bill Roberts did indeed copy my premise and suggest 2 weeks on/2 weeks off. He may have changed his opinion and copied someone else's ideas by now.

Just because you've experienced testicuar atrophy it makes no sense to believe that it doesn't matter how long you stay that way. That's like saying; I'm already suffering from malnutrition, why bother eating?