Serious question about natural limits

[Techbaseball]

I'm pretty sure there isn't an exact chart relating age, height, etc... to give a natural limit of a male... but I've been struggling with this for the past year. What is my natural limit? Meaning... with perfect diet... training.. rest... what is the point that no matter what i do.. .my body will not grow. Is there a general chart out there?... where I can type in my stats... age 34... height 5' 11 3/4".. and it will give me a general weight and size i can potentionally reach.

Currently the highest I've been was 211.. but that was during a serious bulk in the winter... after sheding the fat.. i was able to get 198 without losing strength. I've been making consistant progress over the past 5 years.. each year learning more about nutrition and training. The past year.. i've seem to stagnant. Not in motivation... no signs of burn out. Strength gains increase slower.... but no more size. Have i reached my limit? I guess im intereseted to hear from others with the same type of body composition and see if I could possible reach 225 with around 10-12 BF naturally. I don't compete.. i do this for the pure craziness that comes with the satisfaction of accomplishment and of course the ladies.

thanks in advance for any guidance, personal experience, comments.

--Techbaseball

 

[eddymerckx]

you raise a great question of which i have done a bit of reading about--the gist of what i read is there is a natural limit for some things that are just genetics--and the closer you get that limit the harder you have to work (sort of e=mc2 applied to the body).

on the good side, again, just from general reading, most of us do not even get close to our real natural limits it is just we have reached a limit that requires a higher degree of planning and thought to break through--usually by a professional (e.g. --you are from colorado, so the sports performance clinic at CU Boulder is unmatched).

great question, though i would like to hear what Nelson and Tatyana have to say on this subject.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I address this is THE BODYBUILDING TRUTH. The short answer is, nobody knows. The key is to do everything possible to reach one's individual peak.

People think it's all a matter of persistence, but it is not. Michael Jordan wasn't the best basketball player because he practiced more than anyone else, and Arnold wasn't the best bodybuilder because he trained more than anyone else. I know musicians who've been playing for decades who are mediocre and guys who are in their early 20's who are motherfuckers. It's innate ability coupled with proper training.

Having said that, it's amazing what can be overcome and obtained with persistence. For bodybuilders, that means knowing as many techniques as possible to continue breaking through that genetic cap. THEN, gear can give you that extra 5%. Most guys don't get close to their potential, use gear for that extra 5%, and then are disappointed that they don't look better than they do.

So it's a combination of working hard and accepting that none of us are likely to be pro competitors. Then again, when it comes to professional bodybuilding, that's no great loss. But looking better than mortal men is priceless.

 

[the_alcatraz]

I think each person's natural limit is different. I'd say you are there when you've been bodybuilding for more than 6-7 years and you're over 25, and you've already reached a plateau several times, and went beyond it by varying your training, diet, supplements, sleeping habits, workout time, etc...

 

[52_21_30]

I'm pretty sure there isn't an exact chart relating age, height, etc... to give a natural limit of a male... but I've been struggling with this for the past year. What is my natural limit? Meaning... with perfect diet... training.. rest... what is the point that no matter what i do.. .my body will not grow. Is there a general chart out there?... where I can type in my stats... age 34... height 5' 11 3/4".. and it will give me a general weight and size i can potentionally reach.

Currently the highest I've been was 211.. but that was during a serious bulk in the winter... after sheding the fat.. i was able to get 198 without losing strength. I've been making consistant progress over the past 5 years.. each year learning more about nutrition and training. The past year.. i've seem to stagnant. Not in motivation... no signs of burn out. Strength gains increase slower.... but no more size. Have i reached my limit? I guess im intereseted to hear from others with the same type of body composition and see if I could possible reach 225 with around 10-12 BF naturally. I don't compete.. i do this for the pure craziness that comes with the satisfaction of accomplishment and of course the ladies.

thanks in advance for any guidance, personal experience, comments.

--Techbaseball

I agree with what all have said. Everyone is different. Ronnie Coleman was natural for a great part of his career (not during his stretch of mr O obviously). But we all know a few genetic freaks in our lives, but your goals of 5'11" 225 at that low bf is a tall order. You can do it, but it's going to be an uphill climb. That's the make-up of elite NFL running backs, guys that not only have been training their entire lives under grueling conditions, but also have 1 in a million genetics themselves.

Just keep at it, keep learning, and most of all keep in mind that a lean 200 lbs at your frame and bf% is already a tremendous accomplishment and something to be very proud of.

 

[the elite addict]

id say your a great canidate for A.A.S. run a test / dbol cycle. Test 400mg weeks 1-10
dbol 40mg weeks 1-4. If you wana cut. Run 400 primo weeks 1-10, var 50 mg 6-10

 

[drsketch]

Not to go offbeat here but what do you consider natural?
I myself only consider natural to be food and milk, no supps.

 

[Techbaseball]

Not to go offbeat here but what do you consider natural?
I myself only consider natural to be food and milk, no supps.

When i mention natural i mean no steriod use. Sorry.. should of used a different word than natural... I know there's a variety of opinions on what is considered natural or not.

Well i definetley do not have the genetics of Ronnie or of an leet football athlete. I've been lifting pretty much non stop since my Junior year of high school... lifted all through college... lifted after college. I mention only 5 years of training because I believe that is when I have truly became a student of the sport... learning about how all the pieces of traning, eating, and resting fall together. I'm actually suppose to be a skinny mo fo. When i started i was an ectomorph... and still am on the inside (skinny guys can probably relate to this).

Thanks for the feedback.

--Techbaseball

P.S. I've been told before by several that I would be a good candadite for gear..... and being mostly a lurker on this site for 4 years.. i've read that at times 1 cycle can actually "alter" your natural limit.... but will see. I just stumbled on a variation of the rest-pause philosophy that I'll be implementing.. well see if I can squeeze 2lbs of muscle with it.

 

[Varga]

I would say that this is your genetic limit......why would I say that?
1. At your height and wt already you are at upper limits. If you weren't, then by now you would have been 225 or higher. I think that our bodies are not meant to be this heavy bro and that's the truth. We keep pushing for the limits but can't forget that not too long ago bodybuilders used to weigh 200lbs at the heavy weights....!
2. I know everybody has different ways of intrepreting what genetic limits are, the bottom line is that if the body has reached a point of stagnation what's the point of spending 5 years to gain 5 lbs? It makes no sense to me, although some think that's the way to go I disagree.
3. I have the same basic similarities like you in height and basic wt before gear and no matter what I tried I could not go passed 220.

If you want to keep the course and stay so called natural its up to you and I def respect that but it is obvious that gear will propel you way higher than you ever thought although it comes with its own set of problems

To answer your question, I think you pretty much done gaining to maybe about few lb a muscle a year if you lucky. 225 maybe reachable within few years with continuously changing routine/diet etc but it would be hard and unpredictable

 

[sugashane]

I just stumbled on a variation of the rest-pause philosophy that I'll be implementing.. well see if I can squeeze 2lbs of muscle with it.

First off congrats for what you have accomplished as an ecto. I know first hand how tempting it is to "cheat" to get bigger quicker, but you've made the right chooice in staying away from AAS so far.

And are you talking about Doggcrapp Training? It is a very high intensity workout, but I know of several people who love it and are strong and huge (by my standards, not Olympia sized). If you haven't found the main website for it, here it is. Daunte, the creator, made it and has several othe people working under him that he personally trained. Its even set up in a very similiar manner to EF.

http://www.intensemuscle.com/

 

[mr.nitro]

look at the natural compititions and the people who compete in them. that will give you an idea what can be done without gear.

 

[Nelson Montana]

look at the natural compititions and the people who compete in them. that will give you an idea what can be done without gear.

Not really. Many still use gear and many are genetic freaks. That doesn't exactly apply across the board.

The only way anyone will know how good they'll be AT ANYTHING, is to do their best and see for themselves.

 

[79steeler]

I'm a little shorter than you and reached about 210 naturally, I felt that it was finally time to cross over to the dark side. LOL. Please keep in mind that I am 39 years old and my natty test was a miserable 287. I'd say get some blood work done, do some solid research, and try a cycle with proper diet and training in check and see if can break through and achieve your goals. Welcome to the dark side.

 

[FunFun]

I'm pretty sure there isn't an exact chart relating age, height, etc... to give a natural limit of a male... but I've been struggling with this for the past year. What is my natural limit? Meaning... with perfect diet... training.. rest... what is the point that no matter what i do.. .my body will not grow. Is there a general chart out there?... where I can type in my stats... age 34... height 5' 11 3/4".. and it will give me a general weight and size i can potentionally reach.

Currently the highest I've been was 211.. but that was during a serious bulk in the winter... after sheding the fat.. i was able to get 198 without losing strength. I've been making consistant progress over the past 5 years.. each year learning more about nutrition and training. The past year.. i've seem to stagnant. Not in motivation... no signs of burn out. Strength gains increase slower.... but no more size. Have i reached my limit? I guess im intereseted to hear from others with the same type of body composition and see if I could possible reach 225 with around 10-12 BF naturally. I don't compete.. i do this for the pure craziness that comes with the satisfaction of accomplishment and of course the ladies.

thanks in advance for any guidance, personal experience, comments.

--Techbaseball

Honestly dude, you're probably not going to improve too much in terms of body weight or strength anymore. You may get small improvements, but not enough to make the hard work it requires worth it.

You and I are the exactly the same height, and I stayed natural for 28 f**king long years to the age of 45. That's no joke or mistype....28 years. From 1976 until 2004. I tried everything in the book...wasted a shit load of money on amino acids, creatine and lot of other stuff and all I got was foul smelling gas.

I was hard pressed getting to 90 kg at low bodyfat (198 lbs). I wasn't genetically gifted in any way, with a medium build frame. After one decent course of steroids I shot up to 240 lbs plus, and off the juice I had no problem maintaining at least 102 kg plus (~225 lbs) at low bodyfat. I stayed natural for 3 years after my first couse and never dropped below 100 kg, and the strength stayed above what I had achieved naturally. I've just now started another course.

You can figure this out yourself and waste another 10 years, or get with the program while you're still young. It won't be long before your own natural testosterone production starts dropping due to aging, and then it will get even harder.

 

[Varga]

Honestly dude, you're probably not going to improve too much in terms of body weight or strength anymore. You may get small improvements, but not enough to make the hard work it requires worth it.

You and I are the exactly the same height, and I stayed natural for 28 f**king long years to the age of 45. That's no joke or mistype....28 years. From 1976 until 2004. I tried everything in the book...wasted a shit load of money on amino acids, creatine and lot of other stuff and all I got was foul smelling gas.

I was hard pressed getting to 90 kg at low bodyfat (198 lbs). I wasn't genetically gifted in any way, with a medium build frame. After one decent course of steroids I shot up to 240 lbs plus, and off the juice I had no problem maintaining at least 102 kg plus (~225 lbs) at low bodyfat. I stayed natural for 3 years after my first couse and never dropped below 100 kg, and the strength stayed above what I had achieved naturally. I've just now started another course.

You can figure this out yourself and waste another 10 years, or get with the program while you're still young. It won't be long before your own natural testosterone production starts dropping due to aging, and then it will get even harder.

+1!

 

[halfcenturian]

This is progressive resistance training. So when you can't go up anymore in weight....Welcome to your natural genetic limit.
I don't thinik takes 15 or even 10 years to get there.... In my case it was probabaly 5 or 6 years, and I could not lift any heavier weight. No matter what.... THEN you hit the juice, and it's a whole new ball game. I was in my 40's.

 

[Varga]

I think genetic limit is so over rated.
It mostly has to do with what you want from life and how you want to live your life. Your body has stops along the way to control things, with steriods those stops are gone and re-appear way down the road again but by that time you don't want to be any bigger anyway

 

[Techbaseball]

Wow.. how discouraging. I kind of figured i was playing with the upper part of my limits for the past year.

Tonight i went out to dinner with a friend who has trianed with me on and off for the past 3 years. When I ordered a dirty martini, whole rack of ribs, extra texas toast, poured ranch dressing all over my salad.... she was like "WTH are you doing?" I told her that I just found out that I finally won. She was like "huh?" Yep.. I finally beat the game of weightlifting... I'm celebrating!

I guess now to decide whether or not to start down the next road.... I've "pretented" a few times in the past and have created a few first cycles posibilities. You don't read this site for 4 years and not become at least book smart on the subject.

Thanks for everyones honesty.. even though I was hoping for someone to come on and say... "Yeah!!! it's possible.. just have to eat 5k clean calories a day and 3X your weight in protein!"

--Techbaseball

 

[mr.nitro]

funny thing is a buddy asked me if jay cutler uses steroids. now my buddy is new to the steroid scene but I had to laughf a little. I told him their is no way a human can get that big naturally, its just not possible. people seem to think they can get a whole lot bigger than they really can on hard work alone. their are phisical limitations.

 

[chazk]

Ask yourself these questions.
Do you carry a cooler of food around with you ?
Do you spend every other night cooking and prepping food for the next few days?
Do you eat ,live and train like a bodybuilder( intensity ,diet, dedication) or just train like weightlifter that just moves weight around ?
Do you squat untill you're legs are on fire ?
Have you every trained legs so hard and pumped them so good you can not drive home and have to wait 15 minutes before you can use you're feet to control the brake and gas pedals?
Do you do the major lifts , squats,deads,Bp and spend alot of time in the free weight area or do you fuck around on silly machines everyday in the gym?
Do you let ego get in the way of proper form ?
Do you work out calves,forarms and every muscle full intensity as if every work out was you're last work out ?
Have you found you're physics weaknesses and trained to bring them all up to equal standards?
Do you carry around a watch that goes off every 3 hours with a beep , then make sure you eat every three hours


If you anwsered no to any of those questions , I doubt you have pushed the envalope or even come close to full potential.
Diet, training ,sleeping day in day out like a bodybuilder for 5 years straight with no fucking around or slacking off is prob what it will take .
Not 50% , not 80% not 90% or 99%
100% effort

 

[halfcenturian]

Ask yourself these questions.
Do you carry a cooler of food around with you ?
Do you spend every other night cooking and prepping food for the next few days?
Do you eat ,live and train like a bodybuilder( intensity ,diet, dedication) or just train like weightlifter that just moves weight around ?
Do you squat untill you're legs are on fire ?
Have you every trained legs so hard and pumped them so good you can not drive home and have to wait 15 minutes before you can use you're feet to control the brake and gas pedals?
Do you do the major lifts , squats,deads,Bp and spend alot of time in the free weight area or do you fuck around on silly machines everyday in the gym?
Do you let ego get in the way of proper form ?
Do you work out calves,forarms and every muscle full intensity as if every work out was you're last work out ?
Have you found you're physics weaknesses and trained to bring them all up to equal standards?
Do you carry around a watch that goes off every 3 hours with a beep , then make sure you eat every three hours


If you anwsered no to any of those questions , I doubt you have pushed the envalope or even come close to full potential.
Diet, training ,sleeping day in day out like a bodybuilder for 5 years straight with no fucking around or slacking off is prob what it will take .
Not 50% , not 80% not 90% or 99%
100% effort

Excellent point, however, what you have described above is the itinerary of a professional body builder. While it is dead on the money... most all of us have interuptions: lives, jobs, etc. which prevent us from fully utilizing that kind of life style.
I agree with your point 100%