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RTD Protein Drinks... explain something to me...

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Regarding IsoPure and ABB products.... ok, where the hell is the protein? The drinks are clear. You would think that 40 grams of protein would be enough to SEE.

40 grams of other products, Labrada, MetRx, etc.. leaves behind SOME kind of weight and thickness.

Do you think these are just a sham or maybe at one time it had protein in it and somehow the protein was damaged by heat filtering or what?
 
I was under the impression it was some sort of super micronized magical protein that is so small you cant really see it.
 
Don't know, but RTDs are shit. FDA guidelines mandate that all RTDs have to be brought to a boiling temperature to kill bacteria. This extreme heat renders most of the amino acids worthless. With RTDs, you pay a big price for a bare-bones protein supplement.
 
from teh AST web site

Q: My gym sells several brands of pre-made protein drinks. Companies call them RTDs. I can see where they could be very convenient. Is it a good idea to drink these?



A: Convenient? It would be real convenient to just get the water hose and fill up your gas tank when you need to instead of driving to a gas station half way across town. But that’s not smart and neither is wasting money on these pre-made drinks. I won’t even call them protein drinks because that would be like calling Jello a high protein food source.

Look, I’ll put this bluntly. Pre-made drinks or RTDs are pure junk. They absolutely suck. You’re wasting money and missing valuable muscle-growth opportunities when you drink this garbage.

Let me explain. Do you know how they make these? If you did, you wouldn’t drink them even if the companies paid you to.

Imagine this, take a pot of water and set it on the stove. Bring this pot of water to a raging boil. Take a very low-grade protein powder and add it to the boiling water. Stir it in and let it boil for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes of boiling, add some preservatives. Allow the liquid to cool slightly. Next, poor the scalding hot liquid into a plastic bottle. You’ll have to do this several times to find the right temperature so that the hot liquid does not melt the plastic bottle. Next, seal the bottle and let cool. After it’s cool, set in the storage shed in your backyard for a few months. After a few months take the bottle of liquid from your storage shed and put it in the refrigerator. When it cools, enjoy.

Crazy huh? What do you think this does to quality of the protein? What do you think this does to the protein's ability to deliver a muscle building effect? I’ll tell you, it destroys it. As bad as the quality of the protein was to begin with, it is virtually useless now.

Can you imagine boiling your protein shake before you drink it? That’s the process these pre-made drinks go through when they are produced. I don’t care how great the ads claim these drinks are, bottom line is, the very process in which they are made destroys the proteins effectiveness. Heat destroys delicate whey proteins. Therefore, not only are you paying a premium for this so-called convenience, but you are paying this premium for a drastically damaged and virtually worthless protein.

Be smart. Don’t waste your time with these worthless drinks. Leave them to weekend want-to-bes and those that just pretend they train hard. That’s who these companies make them for any way.
 
Man, if your buyin lots of these your wallets gotta be almost empty. Its so much cheaper, and like beginrjuice said the stuff is horse shit. The only time I drink those is if there is no other way for me to get to my house an I know I should be drinking some protein.

Mike
 
The Machine and bgnrjuice - thanks so much. I feared this much. I was amazed that I could not SEE the protein.

I have no doubts that at one point of time that the bottle actually had 40 grams of protein in it. However, I suspected the method greatly reduced the protein content significantly.
 
Can someone show me where it says that heating whey destroys it.. does cooking chicken or steak destroy the amino acids?
 
So what you bro's are trying to say is that all RTD are a waste???
NO way....I just don't buy it. Are you also saying that all protein powders are over-processed and useless too????
 
beginrjuice said:
from teh AST web site

Q: My gym sells several brands of pre-made protein drinks. Companies call them RTDs. I can see where they could be very convenient. Is it a good idea to drink these?



A: Convenient? It would be real convenient to just get the water hose and fill up your gas tank when you need to instead of driving to a gas station half way across town. But that’s not smart and neither is wasting money on these pre-made drinks. I won’t even call them protein drinks because that would be like calling Jello a high protein food source.

Look, I’ll put this bluntly. Pre-made drinks or RTDs are pure junk. They absolutely suck. You’re wasting money and missing valuable muscle-growth opportunities when you drink this garbage.

Let me explain. Do you know how they make these? If you did, you wouldn’t drink them even if the companies paid you to.

Imagine this, take a pot of water and set it on the stove. Bring this pot of water to a raging boil. Take a very low-grade protein powder and add it to the boiling water. Stir it in and let it boil for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes of boiling, add some preservatives. Allow the liquid to cool slightly. Next, poor the scalding hot liquid into a plastic bottle. You’ll have to do this several times to find the right temperature so that the hot liquid does not melt the plastic bottle. Next, seal the bottle and let cool. After it’s cool, set in the storage shed in your backyard for a few months. After a few months take the bottle of liquid from your storage shed and put it in the refrigerator. When it cools, enjoy.

Crazy huh? What do you think this does to quality of the protein? What do you think this does to the protein's ability to deliver a muscle building effect? I’ll tell you, it destroys it. As bad as the quality of the protein was to begin with, it is virtually useless now.

Can you imagine boiling your protein shake before you drink it? That’s the process these pre-made drinks go through when they are produced. I don’t care how great the ads claim these drinks are, bottom line is, the very process in which they are made destroys the proteins effectiveness. Heat destroys delicate whey proteins. Therefore, not only are you paying a premium for this so-called convenience, but you are paying this premium for a drastically damaged and virtually worthless protein.

Be smart. Don’t waste your time with these worthless drinks. Leave them to weekend want-to-bes and those that just pretend they train hard. That’s who these companies make them for any way.
Click to expand...

I know nothing about the ACTUAL preperation of these beverages.. For all I know you have the candid camera front-row footage, not to mention shreds of scientific validity that accompany your emotion..

Ooo-K...

You probably never eat meat, do you? That steak you had last weekend.??? it was cooked above the temperature of boiling water. .

How about those eggs you had for breakfast? Unless you took them Rocky style, you cooked them above the temperature of boiling water..

Are you picking up what I'm laying down?

Am I saying proteins aren't as easily denatured? Of course not.. proteins (enzymes, etc) encountered in biotechnology and science have rediculously rigorous specs in order to keep them happy.. Some proteins won't function if they are as little as in the wrong buffer ..

These denatured proteins are usually worthless once they are dead.. A few can be revived, most cannot..

But this is biotechnology here.. Not bodybuilding...

Your body doesn't look at the protein you eat and say "SaWEAT! It's a chicken liver hexokinase enzyme!!!!"

NONE of the proteins you injest are used as is.. In other words, they are ALL degraded (denatured) down to their bare bones-- amino acids. Your body then assemples it's own proteins from the amino building blocks... I mean, can you imagine if we used chicken enzymes? We'd be walking aroung clucking before you know it.

All kidding aside..... Your body doesn't care about amino acid chains you eat.. It won't use them anyway.. Our bodies require AMINO ACIDS; not proteins.

Do amino's get f#cked up when you heat them? Not to a significant degree I don't think. I think you will be hard pressed to show me anything that indicates the cert of analysis of these protein companies reveals their products are shit. I"m not talking about dishonest companies who sell sugar and call it whey.. I'm talking about the folks who use these fantom boil-up recipies..

Go ahead.. Get a C of A.. Neeeew newww NO.. Don't get one from anabolic.com... Get a legit one.. You might be surprised.



Andy
 
Thanks for shedding some much needed light Andy. I'd bet your right on this one!

Besides, how many times has a NEW/GREAT supplement come along and get marketed well for a couple of months until people figure out it's bunk. The bodybuilding community always has a way of communicating to the supp companies and to the rest of the bodybuilding communities which products will sell (because they work) and which won't (on the clearance table). RTD's have been popular as hell for a long time and still are.

By now, someone would have proved they are bunk. This is the most un-scientific argument in favor of RTD's but I hope you get the point. Bunk sh#t doesn't retain popularity very long......it fades away.
 
i just use them in a pinch when i need some protein. otherwise i stick to my pre-made metrx or whey or whole foods. only if i eat some carbs on the run and got to get some protein quick, or if i am past my 3 hr window of protein ingesting and i MUST have the protein or my head will explode....then i drink those Myoplex low carb drinks for 20 grams. the nitro tech are great but all that goo on the bottom and the chunks are not worth it for 40 grams. and the new fruit flavored liquid bottled ones taste like shit. lol. at least myo and metrx try and make them taste good. wouldn't depend on them for much of the daily intake though myself.
 
I never said anything other than RTDs were bare-bones, overpriced protein supplements with destroyed amino-acid/glycomacropeptide profiles. It's true that protein is broken down to amino acids in the system, but I disagree with your position that the body won't use individual amino acids.

Drink 'em if you want. There is protein in there; just low-grade protein with a hefty pricetag.

As an aside, does anybody know if protein can sit suspended in liquid for an indefinite amount of time without negative consequence? Andy? Liquid does weird things to compounds given time.
 
Last edited:
LABORATORY PROCEDURES IN ANIMAL NUTRITION RESEARCH
M. L. Galyean
West Texas A&M University, Division of Agriculture and Texas A&M Research and Extension Center, Amarillo

*excerpt*
Perhaps the most important of these three from the standpoint of feed preparation is the Maillard, or browning reaction. In this reaction, free amino
groups of the protein (usually the • -amino of lysine) combine with the aldehyde group of a reducing sugar to form an indigestible complex. The reaction is maximized at moisture levels of 30 % and temperatures greater than 60 C. Moreover, increased time of exposure to these
conditions will enhance the reaction (Maynard et al., 1979).

Van Soest (1975) provided an excellent discussion of the Maillard reaction. The Maillard reaction is of considerable interest to the protein processing industry, particularly with regard to the effects of heat on protein quality. Proteins that have undergone browning have considerably decreased value, both for ruminants and nonruminants.
 
I wondered this too. I've read that I couldn't make a protein drink and leave it in the refridgerator before bed so I could consume it in the middle of the night because after 3 hours or so the protein becomes useless. Why does this not hold true for RTD's?
 
Reread that animal nutrition study that I posted, if I'm reading it correctly (I'm a writer, not a scientist), it says that moisture levels above 30 percent (which liquid would definitely be) and heat above 60 degrees C (140 degrees F; water boils at 212 degrees F) has a negative impact on protein quality. And that the longer protein is exposed to these conditions, the greater the impact (which explains why freshly cooked proteins ((aside from them coming from an entirely different, oftentimes much higher-quality, source)) are still pretty decent.
 
THeMaCHinE said:
LABORATORY PROCEDURES IN ANIMAL NUTRITION RESEARCH
M. L. Galyean
West Texas A&M University, Division of Agriculture and Texas A&M Research and Extension Center, Amarillo

*excerpt*
Perhaps the most important of these three from the standpoint of feed preparation is the Maillard, or browning reaction. In this reaction, free amino
groups of the protein (usually the • -amino of lysine) combine with the aldehyde group of a reducing sugar to form an indigestible complex. The reaction is maximized at moisture levels of 30 % and temperatures greater than 60 C. Moreover, increased time of exposure to these
conditions will enhance the reaction (Maynard et al., 1979).

Van Soest (1975) provided an excellent discussion of the Maillard reaction. The Maillard reaction is of considerable interest to the protein processing industry, particularly with regard to the effects of heat on protein quality. Proteins that have undergone browning have considerably decreased value, both for ruminants and nonruminants.
Click to expand...

that was in 1975, protein came a long way since 28yrs when weider crappy proteins flooded the market.
True it kills some (most) living emzines in the protein process but many other emzines in body to break down protein.
Maybe leave bottle open on shelf for a few weeks I'm sure some worms will show up.
:D
 
Last edited:
DangerousGrounds said:


that was in 1975, protein came a long way since 28yrs when weider crappy proteins flooded the market.
True it kills some (most) living emzines in the protein process but many other emzines in body to break down protein.
Maybe leave bottle open on shelf for a few weeks I'm sure some worms will show up.
:D
Click to expand...

It was in 1979 and wasn't discussing a supplemental protein (i.e. Weider); it had to do with basic properties of protein they were studying for animal nutrition feed. I would assume these basic properties hold true for protein in general.

Since you are talking about proteins improving, how has protein changed in such a fundamental way over the last 20 odd years that heat and moisture won't effect it?

Why can't you leave creatine in water and have it work? Why can't you put powder oxandrolone in water and not have it degrade? Why aren't you supposed to cook the yolks of your organic eggs if you want to get the best protein and omega 3s? Because liquid/heat often has a negative impact on compounds.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong on RTDs -- maybe they are every bit as good as other types of protein. I haven't read anything that supports this and I have read negative things about heat and liquid on proteins; granted, some of this information comes from admittedly biased sources, but some doesn't.

I'm not arguing that there's no value or protein content to RTDs; just that the protein quality is substandard to fresh powders of like protein; and that the products are expensive for what you get. Drink if you like. I'm just trying to open eyes to alternate possibilities.
 
Last edited:
Extrusion Texturization of Air-Classified Pea Protein
------------------------------------------------------------------------
AUTHOR(S): N. Wang, P.R. Bhirud and R.T. Tyler

ABSTRACT:
Air-classified pea protein was texturized using a twin-screw extruder. The effects of moisture, screw speed and barrel temperature on the physical, functional and nutritional characteristics of texturized pea protein were investigated. Increased dough moisture increased product bulk density (BD) and available lysine (LYS) of texturized pea products, but decreased waterholding capacity (WHC) and in vitro protein digestibility (DIG). Texturized pea protein resembled commercial texturized soy products with respect to most physical and functional properties.
 
Nonsense.

FYI -- 6N HCl at 100 degrees for 24 hours are required in order to break a peptide bond. In the absense of a catalyst, the half-life for the hydrolyis of a typical peptide at neutral pH is between 10 and 1000 years. However, in the presence of the body's enzymes, they are hydrolyzed instantaneously.

- Epit
 
Re: Nonsense.

Epitome said:
FYI -- 6N HCl at 100 degrees for 24 hours are required in order to break a peptide bond. In the absense of a catalyst, the half-life for the hydrolyis of a typical peptide at neutral pH is between 10 and 1000 years. However, in the presence of the body's enzymes, they are hydrolyzed instantaneously.

- Epit
Click to expand...

English?
 
ok....so i am wasting my money on drinking my extreme body protein drink? so, what about my xxl i drink before i go to bed...if i see 50 grams of whey protein on the bottle, can i now sue for false advertisement.....and lets jump to soy too....that promotes estrogen.....correct....i was just at my supp shop, and although they do sell soy products, at the same price as the regular stuff....and i am being told that soy helps promotes estrogen which we all know eats up muscle like flys on shit....

E
 
Remember as always - consider the source of the information you find. Consider what the author has to gain by saying what they do. This is one of the reasons I don't read the articles in BB magazines - I just look at the fitness babes.
 
Re: Nonsense.

Epitome said:
FYI -- 6N HCl at 100 degrees for 24 hours are required in order to break a peptide bond. In the absense of a catalyst, the half-life for the hydrolyis of a typical peptide at neutral pH is between 10 and 1000 years. However, in the presence of the body's enzymes, they are hydrolyzed instantaneously.

- Epit
Click to expand...
Basically, it takes a strong acid at high temperatures for a long period of time to break the bond that holds the various amino acids of proteins together. However, when the proteins begin digestion in the stomache, they are exposed to various enzymes and proteases that further degrade these proetins into their constituent amino acids, where they are then transported to the appropriate tissue. These breakdowns occur instantaneously.

The point is that the body is highly efficient and it takes a hell of a lot of effort to completely degrade proteins without enzymes. IMO, I do not believe protein "quality" should be an issue from the biochemical standpoint, so if you're in a bind, grab a RTD.

- Epit
 
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