Romney: "Outsourcing isn't the same as Offshoring"...

[simply dave]

And the Romney campaign is demanding a retraction from the WSJ. Hmm...I need to dig a little deeper here. Something's rotten in Denmark if you were to ask me....

Romney seeks Washington Post retraction - POLITICO.com

Mitt Romney campaign representatives will meet with The Washington Post today to seek a formal retraction of its June 21 report that Bain Capital invested in firms that specialized in outsourcing American jobs...
In its defense, Romney campaign officials have argued that the Obama campaign is confusing "outsourcing" with "offshoring," an argument that President Obama has criticized in recent campaign speeches.

Gonna have to check this against other sources for veracity of course, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[EnderJE]

Interesting? I don't find it interesting. I find it as a play on words. In both cases, jobs leave the country.

 

[redsamurai]

Interesting? I don't find it interesting. I find it as a play on words. In both cases, jobs leave the country.

yeah that's pretty much the long and short of it. I wonder what Romy's def of offshoring entails. This shoudl be good. It's funny to watch the republicans bactracking on "offshoring" now. 10 years ago they were calling people commies who dared question whther it was sound economic policy to let american comapanies move everything but a P.O box overseas and still treat their products as if they were made in the U.S. It looks as if it's finally dawning on folks up there what the potential consequences of a full blown "service economy" are.

 

[simply dave]

It's reassuring to see that there are some folks here that see the ruse.
**Waiting for the neocons to chime in to support Obomney**

 

[redsamurai]

this was all started by Reagan too. Those people in washington really did just think that the U.S dollar would be the worlds reserve for hundreds of years to come, so why be fiscally responsible? Why make anything when we can just print what the rest of the world drools over? The Chinese people consider the current communist regime just another dynasty that's destined to fall at some point. These people have been going about thier rat killing for 6000 years and we've doing this for what, 300?

 

[PICK3]

simple dave + RS sitting in a tree ...

 

[dabuffguy]

You guys, outsourcing and offshoreing ARE different.

It also depends on the industry you work in as to what it means specifically.

 

[brownbrown]

simple dave + RS sitting in a tree ...kiss kiss kissing bbb

I know what you really meant.

 

[EnderJE]

You guys, outsourcing and offshoreing ARE different.

It also depends on the industry you work in as to what it means specifically.

Help me understand the key differences.

From my viewpoint:
- outsourcing means subcontracting work (usually previously done by on-site staff) to a third party outside of the country
- offshoring means moving the on-site jobs outside of the country


The net effect is that jobs leave the country in both cases.

 

[SpyWizard]

yeah that's pretty much the long and short of it. I wonder what Romy's def of offshoring entails. This shoudl be good. It's funny to watch the republicans bactracking on "offshoring" now. 10 years ago they were calling people commies who dared question whther it was sound economic policy to let american comapanies move everything but a P.O box overseas and still treat their products as if they were made in the U.S. It looks as if it's finally dawning on folks up there what the potential consequences of a full blown "service economy" are.

service economy has made it possible for me to retire.. oh wait, you mean service as in cutting the grass, washing clothing, serving tables and what not right???

selling intellectual services, that is providing a need to a national or international person or company is the way of the future, just like we went from an agricultural to an industrial based country we will succeed in this as well..

 

[SpyWizard]

It's reassuring to see that there are some folks here that see the ruse.
**Waiting for the neocons to chime in to support Obomney**

hilarious really...

I don't support solar, wind or anything else the Gov shoves down my throat..

just like i don't support light bulbs with mercury in them in my home... good move dems on getting that law through..

 

[billfred]

yeah that's pretty much the long and short of it. I wonder what Romy's def of offshoring entails. This shoudl be good. It's funny to watch the republicans bactracking on "offshoring" now. 10 years ago they were calling people commies who dared question whther it was sound economic policy to let american comapanies move everything but a P.O box overseas and still treat their products as if they were made in the U.S. It looks as if it's finally dawning on folks up there what the potential consequences of a full blown "service economy" are.

you can outsource jobs to American companies. Say you do not want to do your accounts payable in house or billing anymore. You hire a firm to handle it for you.

That is outsourcing. Hire a foreign firm to handle it and that is moving it offshore.

Big difference.

 

[dabuffguy]

you can outsource jobs to American companies. Say you do not want to do your accounts payable in house or billing anymore. You hire a firm to handle it for you.

That is outsourcing. Hire a foreign firm to handle it and that is moving it offshore.

Big difference.

Even then, going offshore doesn't mean it's not an american company. "Offshore drilling". Now, I know that can refer to drilling literally off the shore in the water, but there are american companies drilling in foreign waters as well.

Ever heard of the term "ex-patriot"? I was offered to go work in China as ex-patriot status for an American company that has a huge effect on the consumer market here in the U.S.




Seriously, this is all so retarded. They just hope that ignorant people will listen to him without checking out the facts or really understanding what it is they are even taking about. Sadly, the average voter, dem, repub, etc. are stupid people that are swayed by ridiculous "accusations" like this,

 

[simply dave]

I don't know gang. I find it "fishy". I'm inclined to agree w/ Ender here that it's a play on words. Mentioned is "outsourcing American jobs", and then when you read this article...
Romney’s Bain Capital invested in companies that moved jobs overseas - The Washington Post

Couple that with the fact that campaign has been reluctant to respond to requests for information. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

Bain’s foray into outsourcing began in 1993 when the private equity firm took a stake in Corporate Software Inc., or CSI, after helping to finance a $93 million buyout of the firm. CSI, which catered to technology companies like Microsoft, provided a range of services including outsourcing of customer support. Initially, CSI employed U.S. workers to provide these services but by the mid-1990s was setting up call centers outside the country.
Two years after Bain invested in the firm, CSI merged with another enterprise to form a new company called Stream International Inc. Stream immediately became active in the growing field of overseas calls centers. Bain was initially a minority shareholder in Stream and was active in running the company, providing “general executive and management services,” according to SEC filings.

 

[redsamurai]

service economy has made it possible for me to retire.. oh wait, you mean service as in cutting the grass, washing clothing, serving tables and what not right???

selling intellectual services, that is providing a need to a national or international person or company is the way of the future, just like we went from an agricultural to an industrial based country we will succeed in this as well..

if we don't create tangible goods, wait and see what happens when the world decides the dollar isn't the reserve anymore. The bartering of intellectual services ain't gonna cut it. When it comes down to paying for stuff like oil....we need to have goods we can convert to the reserve. One of the big shots at UBS said the U.S would start ww3 if the world were to try to do something like that before we were ready. Right now the fact we print the worlds reserve is the only thing keeping us going.

 

[redsamurai]

you can outsource jobs to American companies. Say you do not want to do your accounts payable in house or billing anymore. You hire a firm to handle it for you.

That is outsourcing. Hire a foreign firm to handle it and that is moving it offshore.

Big difference.

Yeah i beleive the kind of "outsourcing" we're talking about here is when you take em to overseas companies that are using their native workforce, i think that's pretty self explanatory that nobody has a problem with outsourcing jobs to american companies hiring american workers.

And actually i have no issue with comapanies taking any of thier activities overseas, it's their right to do so as a private firm. What I object to is them being treated as "american" companies. Their goods and services should now be treated just like any good/service coming in from overseas...they're not american anymore just because they kept their corporate HQ here.

 

[bigpokey]

here you bros go....

4 Pinocchios for Obama’s newest anti-Romney ad - The Washington Post

 

[billfred]

Even then, going offshore doesn't mean it's not an american company. "Offshore drilling". Now, I know that can refer to drilling literally off the shore in the water, but there are american companies drilling in foreign waters as well.

Ever heard of the term "ex-patriot"? I was offered to go work in China as ex-patriot status for an American company that has a huge effect on the consumer market here in the U.S.




Seriously, this is all so retarded. They just hope that ignorant people will listen to him without checking out the facts or really understanding what it is they are even taking about. Sadly, the average voter, dem, repub, etc. are stupid people that are swayed by ridiculous "accusations" like this,

Really? Never heard of it.

 

[bigpokey]

lol

 

[dabuffguy]

Really? Never heard of it.

Sorry, I mispelled it.

It's spelled "Expatriate"

wiki it

 

[EnderJE]

Even then, going offshore doesn't mean it's not an american company. "Offshore drilling". Now, I know that can refer to drilling literally off the shore in the water, but there are american companies drilling in foreign waters as well.

Ever heard of the term "ex-patriot"? I was offered to go work in China as ex-patriot status for an American company that has a huge effect on the consumer market here in the U.S.

Seriously, this is all so retarded. They just hope that ignorant people will listen to him without checking out the facts or really understanding what it is they are even taking about. Sadly, the average voter, dem, repub, etc. are stupid people that are swayed by ridiculous "accusations" like this,

Ah, the mistake in my logic is the frame of reference that I was using. Essentially, the main message is that companies are leaving the country. It's true that you can outsource to domestic companies, but lately, I've been primarily dealing with outsourced / offshore companies (ie my developers are in India). Given the recent numerous dealings, that's my frame of reference.

In the end, I think that the gist of the message is maintained and correct.

 

[EnderJE]

BTW, this thread is getting too serious. We need lewd pics of Shirls...or in a pinch...Dabuff.

 

[dabuffguy]

Ah, the mistake in my logic is the frame of reference that I was using. Essentially, the main message is that companies are leaving the country. It's true that you can outsource to domestic companies, but lately, I've been primarily dealing with outsourced / offshore companies (ie my developers are in India).

In the end, I think that the gist of the message is maintained and correct.

My current company has been moving engineering units to China and India. Those damn asians can't do shit for work and make my job much harder.

Anything above MFG stuff, those guys have 0 ability to lead themselves through product development. That's why those bitches are always stealing Intellectual Property and reproducing it. Because they are to fking incapable of doing real work themselves. Fk the chinese. Seriously.

Even when I was in school full time, working as "Intern" status, I was the one fixing all their screw ups and then having to communicate with them on why their bullsiht doesn't fly with me or my managers and they need to do stuff right or GTFO.

Granted, our CEO of the last 4 years is a fking asian and he is the one moving our teams, oh excuse me, firing our perfectly capable teams, and hiring incapable dipshits for less than 1/2 the money and then the US teams have to pick up their inadequacies daily to keep our own jobs. All in the sake of stock prices. Screw my CEO, he's a dumbass.

 

[billfred]

Yeah i beleive the kind of "outsourcing" we're talking about here is when you take em to overseas companies that are using their native workforce, i think that's pretty self explanatory that nobody has a problem with outsourcing jobs to american companies hiring american workers.

And actually i have no issue with comapanies taking any of thier activities overseas, it's their right to do so as a private firm. What I object to is them being treated as "american" companies. Their goods and services should now be treated just like any good/service coming in from overseas...they're not american anymore just because they kept their corporate HQ here.

Only to someone who knows nothing what they are talking about.

In business we outsource every day and rarely are we talking about moving a job overseas. That is what Romney is trying to say.

 

[dabuffguy]

BTW, this thread is getting too serious. We need lewd pics of Shirls...or in a pinch...Dabuff.

Yeah, I'll come through if you need me.

 

[EnderJE]

My current company has been moving engineering units to China and India. Those damn asians can't do shit for work and make my job much harder.

Anything above MFG stuff, those guys have 0 ability to lead themselves through product development. That's why those bitches are always stealing Intellectual Property and reproducing it. Because they are to fking incapable of doing real work themselves. Fk the chinese. Seriously.

Even when I was in school full time, working as "Intern" status, I was the one fixing all their screw ups and then having to communicate with them on why their bullsiht doesn't fly with me or my managers and they need to do stuff right or GTFO.

Granted, our CEO of the last 4 years is a fking asian and he is the one moving our teams, oh excuse me, firing our perfectly capable teams, and hiring incapable dipshits for less than 1/2 the money and then the US teams have to pick up their inadequacies daily to keep our own jobs. All in the sake of stock prices. Screw my CEO, he's a dumbass.

I have the same issue (sort of).

People aren't good or bad per see, but there are things that they are good at vs not good at.

I've noted that the Far East teams (thus far) aren't good with self direction.

That's not to say that all Far East teams aren't good, but the ones that I've dealt with are horrible.

However, that was the decision from senior management, so they have to live with the results of their decisions.

On some level, it's more honest now. The company doesn't give a fuck about the worker and the worker returns the favor.

 

[redsamurai]

Only to someone who knows nothing what they are talking about.

In business we outsource every day and rarely are we talking about moving a job overseas. That is what Romney is trying to say.

the term "outsourcing" has been used repeatedly by politicians, economists and the media to define the taking of jobs overseas. If there's a technicality here i was missing so be it...but it sounds like Romney is trying to make a play on words in hopes this goes away because Bain was indeed involved in taking jobs overseas, whatever "the fuck" you want to call that i don't care..outsourcing/offshoring whatever. I mean he wasn't the only one doing this so i really couldn't give a shit because for the last 10-20 years it's been the thing to do. Just man up and own it is all I care about from these politicians at this point. Like I would love for Obama to just man up and own he gave a nice tech subsidy to solyndra cause one of his major campaign contributors told him to....is that gonna happen anytime soon? lulz

 

[brownbrown]

the term "outsourcing" has been used repeatedly by politicians, economists and the media to define the taking of jobs overseas. If there's a technicality here i was missing so be it...but it sounds like Romney is trying to make a play on words in hopes this goes away because Bain was indeed involved in taking jobs overseas, whatever "the fuck" you want to call that i don't care..outsourcing/offshoring whatever. I mean he wasn't the only one doing this so i really couldn't give a shit because for the last 10-20 years it's been the thing to do. Just man up and own it is all I care about from these politicians at this point. Like I would love for Obama to just man up and own he gave a nice tech subsidy to solyndra cause one of his major campaign contributors told him to....is that gonna happen anytime soon? lulz

Agree.. man up.....

Somehow along the way in history, pandering became the norm. Vice straighter talk.

The alternative energy Tech initiative started in 2005. Fyi.

DrOiD BioNiC EF App!

 

[bigpokey]

the term "outsourcing" has been used repeatedly by politicians, economists and the media to define the taking of jobs overseas. If there's a technicality here i was missing so be it...but it sounds like Romney is trying to make a play on words in hopes this goes away because Bain was indeed involved in taking jobs overseas, whatever "the fuck" you want to call that i don't care..outsourcing/offshoring whatever. I mean he wasn't the only one doing this so i really couldn't give a shit because for the last 10-20 years it's been the thing to do. Just man up and own it is all I care about from these politicians at this point. Like I would love for Obama to just man up and own he gave a nice tech subsidy to solyndra cause one of his major campaign contributors told him to....is that gonna happen anytime soon? lulz

Bain apparently was not involved in shipping jobs overseas from the article i posted u dum ngr

 

[simply dave]

Bain apparently was not involved in shipping jobs overseas from the article i posted u dum ngr

The article you posted addressed the "corporate raider" issue. Different topic altogether.

 

[bigpokey]

The article you posted addressed the "corporate raider" issue. Different topic altogether.

"On just about every level, this ad is misleading, unfair and untrue, from the use of “corporate raider” to its examples of alleged outsourcing."

 

[redsamurai]

Bain apparently was not involved in shipping jobs overseas from the article i posted u dum ngr

i didn't realize we were strictly speaking of your article ngr....put the bamboo spear away for a sec though and realize that Bain has been accused of aiding job flight overseas for years. I do not know if it is true or not, if it's just political hackery or not....but there seems to be some smoke there. Again, it's what people did....I just want him to admit that he's more interested in saving corporate jobs than he is wage labor jobs. I'm not saying that as a negative either...i have my own personal opinions on it but it's irrelevant, alot of people feel that you keep the rich afloat they'll spring up jobs again somewhere else. Just own it. Bain were Hatchet men...and in some ways you can argue they served a vital function in our economy. What that say's about our system though is branching off into another topic so I won't go there.

 

[simply dave]

"On just about every level, this ad is misleading, unfair and untrue, from the use of “corporate raider” to its examples of alleged outsourcing."

And on just about every level I'm going to say you're full of shit.

But don't take it personally...I met Romney in person a couple of years ago and sat down to hear his rhetoric (along with Palin, Cheney, "Ghoul"iani, and Rove...He's full of shit too so I suppose you're in good company.) **grin**

 

[simply dave]

....but there seems to be some smoke there.

Indeed...And this is precisely what I'm saying. It's worth further scrutiny, is it not?

Make no mistake, Romney is now at a disadvantage. How is Romney going to condemn Obamacare when he, as Gov of Massachusetts, laid down the framework that was to become the blueprint for a national version? Obama is going to burn him on that one. And all this obfuscation on Bain? I think a lot is being buried at the moment. I did not support Romney for these reasons as well as the fact that he's a warmonger (AKA...Obama), but that too is another story.

 

[redsamurai]

ahhh, it appears Bain capital either outright owned or invested in overseas companies that "specialized" in relocating american jobs to low wage environments like China. That's awesome. He's like a lower key version of Goldsmith. <---- massive K to anyone that understands that reference. lols

 

[simply dave]

ahhh, it appears Bain capital either outright owned or invested in overseas companies that "specialized" in relocating american jobs to low wage environments like China. That's awesome. He's like a lower key version of Goldsmith. <---- massive K to anyone that understands that reference. lols

All I will say is, without giving too much away, a European counterpart, correct? **grin** I agree.

 

[redsamurai]

All I will say is, without giving too much away, a European counterpart, correct? **grin** I agree.

hehe, right you are. Sir Mittenston Romnius the third? lmao

 

[PICK3]

simple dave and RS bromance continues to heat up!

 

[EnderJE]

simple dave and RS bromance continues to heat up!

I think that you have to step up your seduction of Plunkey to keep up!

 

[EnderJE]

 

[brownbrown]

Thats fucking crazy looking ....

 

[bigpokey]

And on just about every level I'm going to say you're full of shit.

But don't take it personally...I met Romney in person a couple of years ago and sat down to hear his rhetoric (along with Palin, Cheney, "Ghoul"iani, and Rove...He's full of shit too so I suppose you're in good company.) **grin**

jesus christ u old fukn bag of shit, i didn't say the shit the article did... and it explains it if u can fukn read blind codger muthafuka

how bout a source showing he did send jobs overseas fukn fagt, i would like to know the truth.. from what i can tell so far it's just political hype

 

[redsamurai]

jesus christ u old fukn bag of shit, i didn't say the shit the article did... and it explains it if u can fukn read blind codger muthafuka

how bout a source showing he did send jobs overseas fukn fagt, i would like to know the truth.. from what i can tell so far it's just political hype

well if you google it you'll find he invested in companies that find places for american companies to land jobs overseas....so obviously there was a business relationship there where Bain would use these companies to help relocate the jobs they just hatchted from the companies they took over.

 

[bigpokey]

well if you google it you'll find he invested in companies that find places for american companies to land jobs overseas....so obviously there was a business relationship there where Bain would use these companies to help relocate the jobs they just hatchted from the companies they took over.

i did google it, i couldn't find a reputable source that explained any of that in detail.. the most reputable and believable article i could find on the issue i posted... your turn bro fuk ur gettin outta control without plunk around to tell u to sit your whore ass down

 

[redsamurai]

i did google it, i couldn't find a reputable source that explained any of that in detail.. the most reputable and believable article i could find on the issue i posted... your turn bro fuk ur gettin outta control without plunk around to tell u to sit your whore ass down

Hey bro you need to take some riddlin and focus, for real. Romney himself is admitting this but saying that the companies he invested in "also moved jobs around to other parts of the country". So now he's trying to stake some middle ground by saying yeah we moved some jobs overseas but we also moved them around the country. So maybe you need to update your google skills you dirty sanchez cause those were abc, nyt and washpst articles that i literally just found within seconds.

 

[redsamurai]

"Last week’s Washington Post article on Mitt Romney profiting from companies involved in shipping jobs overseas clearly has the Romney Campaign concerned. Unlike their usual approach of simply not responding to any questions from reporters, the Romney Campaign has been forced to engage.

Their argument goes something like this: The Romney-owned companies that shipped jobs overseas also did other things, such as relocating jobs around the US. Instead of addressing the actual concern about jobs moving overseas, the Romney Campaign feigns semantic outrage over an issue that was never raised.

The Romney Campaign’s response to confirmed news reports of shifting jobs overseas is deceptive, irrelevant, and intentionally confusing.

The new response comes after the Washington Post reported that, “Romney campaign officials repeatedly declined requests to comment on Bain’s record of investing in outsourcing firms during the Romney era.”

Here are the facts:

In 1993, Romney invested in a company that ran call centers for technology companies. “Initially, CSI employed U.S. workers to provide these services but by the mid-1990s was setting up call centers outside the country.”

In a venture related to CSI, Romney’s firm controlled and profited from Modus Media, a company that specialized in outsourcing. That included helping US companies open manufacturing in Singapore, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan.

In 1987, Romney took over Holson Burnes, a maker of frames and photo albums. Under Romney, the firm fired hundreds of workers and, “By 1992, the company manufactured nearly 75 percent of its photo frames overseas, according to documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.”

In 1993, Romney took over and profited from GT Bicycle. The company relied on factories in Asia to produce products it sold in the United States.

In 1998, Romney negotiated the purchase of a company that manufactured computer chips overseas to sell to US customers.

In another company related to CSI, Romney invested in Stream International. “Stream immediately became active in the growing field of overseas calls centers.”

In 1998, Romney negotiated the acquisition of SMTC. Shortly thereafter, the company shifted jobs to Mexico.

 

[redsamurai]

what?

 

[PICK3]

what?

wut?

 

[redsamurai]

wut?

sup?

 

[simply dave]

if u can fukn read blind codger muthafuka

That's "Mr. codger muthafucka" to you, you punkass little bitch. Get it right next time. **grin**

 

[simply dave]

Romney’s Bain Capital invested in companies that moved jobs overseas - The Washington Post

But a Washington Post examination of securities filings shows the extent of Bain’s investment in firms that specialized in helping other companies move or expand operations overseas...

Romney campaign officials repeatedly declined requests to comment on Bain’s record of investing in outsourcing firms during the Romney era...

Bain’s foray into outsourcing began in 1993 when the private equity firm took a stake in Corporate Software Inc., or CSI, after helping to finance a $93 million buyout of the firm. CSI, which catered to technology companies like Microsoft, provided a range of services including outsourcing of customer support. Initially, CSI employed U.S. workers to provide these services but by the mid-1990s was setting up call centers outside the country.

Two years after Bain invested in the firm, CSI merged with another enterprise to form a new company called Stream International Inc. Stream immediately became active in the growing field of overseas calls centers. Bain was initially a minority shareholder in Stream and was active in running the company, providing “general executive and management services,” according to SEC filings.

By 1997, Stream was running three tech-support call centers in Europe and was part of a call center joint venture in Japan, an SEC filing shows. “The Company believes that the trend toward outsourcing technical support occurring in the U.S. is also occurring in international markets,” the SEC filing said.

I don't know. All things being equal, I'd say the investigative reporter did a fairly thorough job going through SEC filings and such. Any political "dodging seems to be coming from the Romney camp IMO.

 

[redsamurai]

and i'm not even going to outright denounce him for it either. There would have to be a thorough case by case investigation into whether Bain was just kneejerking everything oversea's to make a couple extra bucks or maybe in some circumstances there was no other viable alternative. There are some things we probably shouldn't be making here in the states anymore...i get it, some outsourcing is necessary. But look how they rammed call centers down the consumers throats. Nobody, and I mean nobody "demands" to speak to an unintelligible foreigner, especially when it comes to complicated and possibly very important things like getting your PC to behave. But everyone did it...it was a mass movement to subvert the real will of the market. And has any of those savings the companies squealed on and on about been passed down to us? no they haven't.

If they come up with a couple solid cases where there was a capable and willing workforce just waiting somewhere in the U.S but Bain still shotputted those jobs oversea's he's finished. As beatable as Obama is if they can show Romney's blowing it out his ass when he stands infront blue collar workers and say's i know how to get your jobs back.....it's over.