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Red Dragon's Progress Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Debaser
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Debaser

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All right here we are RD. I have a workout and diet that I want you to follow. I expect you to log each and every workout on this thread. You don't have to write me a detailed report if you don't want, but at least list the poundages and reps. With the diet, I don't need you to tell me exactly what you ate, but rather an HONEST confession whether you met my guidelines for the day or not(you can report this every few days with your training). Please don't lie about anything, as any gaps in your progress I might attach to the wrong reasons, if I assumed you were truthful about everything.

Here is your workout. It is twice a week, and thus should be easier for you to keep schedule. Please do not change anything, though you can certainly ask me questions regarding any of my choices.

Monday

Dip or bench press (I prefer dip), 3 x 8
Row (use barbell bent-over only if you're positive you're doing it correctly, though I can help you there), 2 x 8
Stiff-legged Deadlift, 2 x 8
Crunch, 2 x 10

Thursday

Overhead Press (not behind neck), 3 x 8
Pulldown, 2 x 8
Squat, 2 x 8
Back hyperextension, 2 x 10

Here is what you need to do. Start off LIGHT. I want you to be doing about 75% effort at the beginning, so that you still have a few reps left in you at the end of each set. We're going to be adding 10 lbs a week to the squat and deadlift, and 5 lbs a week to the others. When you have a session so hard that you don't make all the reps, I'll illustrate what you need to do.

Yes, I realize this program is SIMPLE. I am often on the same type of program. Believe me when I say that BIG MOVEMENTS + BIG EATING = BIG GAINS. If you can devote a mere 3 months to me (and think about it, that's nothing in terms of your entire training career), I think by the end you will agree with me.

Now for diet. I want you to shoot for 1.5 times your bodyweight in grams of protein. Fuck what anybody else thinks. I do 2 grams per pound a day and I'm gaining at a fast pace. 1.5 I believe is the minimum, but absolutely try not to fall below 1 times your bodyweight (I don't care if you have to get in 100 grams of protein right before bed, because if anything it will teach you a lesson about devotion).

Here is how I want you to tackle carbohydrates. I want you to concentrate on things like oatmeal (especially in the morning), potatoes, pasta, and wheatbread. Other carbs aren't bad but they're secondary to these. We're not going to be eating super clean here, double cheeseburgers are fine (and a good source of protein to boot). After you fill up on protein for the meal, take yourself to the brink with carbs. E.g. once you down that big steak, then work on the potatoes.

Do NOT skimp on the fat. I want you to get at least 4 tablespoons of an oil (like Udo's or extra virgin olive oil) as healthful fat a day. You can just dump it in your shakes, you get used to the taste quick. I want you to drink at LEAST half a gallon of milk a day (2% preferably) and at LEAST a gallon of water a day. For protein powder, I suggest Optimum pro complex as it has 55 grams per serving. Put this in 2 cups of milk and you're on the fast track to meeting your daily protein requirement. Also, take a multivitamin. Other supplements are at your discretion, I also use G-plenish and Glucorell-R (and that's all).

We are renovating your body starting NOW. Get EXCITED about it. Get MAD at the poundages you are going to shatter. Do not think of any individual task I outlined as being a burden to your time, they are all keys to progress. I expect nothing less of you than to follow them.
 
thats really cool of you to put that together D....RD you should be able to do well with that outline even with a tight schedule
 
louden_swain said:
This would be a good program for building a foundation, but I would use 5 exercises per workout.

I don't understand how the number of exercises really makes a difference. He has all he needs with what was given...how would 1 more exercise each day make it a better routine?
 
The core exercises are fine, but I would add an additional exercise to target the arms. . . I would set this up in a DC type split.

Workout 1

1. Incline Presses or Parallel Dips - 2 x 8 - CHEST
2. Overhead Presses (standing or seated) - 2 x 8 - DELTS
3. Close Grip Bench Presses - 2 x 8 - TRICEPS
4. Deadlifts - 2 x 5 (including warmups at the beginning) - BACK
5. Chins - 2 x 8 - BACK

Workout 2 -

1. Barbell Curls - 2 x 8 - BICEPS
2. Behind the Back Wrist Curls - 2 x 8 - FOREARMS
3. Standing Barbell Toe Raises - 2 x 12 - CALVES
4. Squats - 2 x 8 - QUADS
5. Lying Leg Curls - 2 x 8 - HAMSTRINGS

With this you can train half of the body in one day, plus you can alternate exercises each training session.

This is only my input.
 
I don't think he needs arm specialization, let alone direct forearm work. I haven't done bicep or tricep isolation for quite awhile and my arms are growing quite nicely. Dips and chins hit the arms extremely hard. DC is a great program but I feel a good, basic full body split will serve him best.
 
Any particular reason you are not suggesting regular deadlifts?

I find that it is harder to keep proper form on a SLDL than a regular deadlift, even with light weight. That would be critical, I would think, where a novice is concerned.

If a hamstring move is desired, I would suggest pull-thourghs myself, following the deads.



Just my .02,
Joker
 
I agree, go with regular deads then isolate the hams.

Again the program I proposed allows flexibility. For example, you can use the stiff leg deads on workout 2 and only use supported rows and chins for workout 1. . there needs to be flexibility in my opinion.
 
I don't think he should avoid learning proper form...and I feel keeping form on SLDLs is pretty straightforward, but that might just be me.

Stiff-legged also have a more natural eccentric, they work well for reps as opposed to a single lift. Squats and stiff-legged deadlifts have always been my favorite lower body combination. It doesn't get much simpler than just those two exercises.
 
louden_swain said:
I agree, go with regular deads then isolate the hams.

Again the program I proposed allows flexibility. For example, you can use the stiff leg deads on workout 2 and only use supported rows and chins for workout 1. . there needs to be flexibility in my opinion.

I believe flexibility is the least important thing right now. I need him to be 100% devoted to 2 solid, hardcore workouts a week. Absolutely no flexibility or variation of any kind. Just straightforward progress, pure and simple. Then I will ensure consistant poundage progression and proper recovery.
 
Debaser said:
I don't think he should avoid learning proper form...and I feel keeping form on SLDLs is pretty straightforward, but that might just be me.

Stiff-legged also have a more natural eccentric, they work well for reps as opposed to a single lift. Squats and stiff-legged deadlifts have always been my favorite lower body combination. It doesn't get much simpler than just those two exercises.

I see your point. I just think it's just too easy to round your back on SLDL's. Form on the regular deadlift is simpler for me to keep, and more straight-forward.

I also think that anyone starting out, should hit the major compound moves before anything else. I feel that regular deads are more of a compound move, and SLDL's are more of an isolation move.


Just .02 more,
Joker
 
Regarding rounding, that's why I advocate a slightly partial SLDL. Find the point where your back starts to lose its arch, and then adjust the bar position accordingly. For me that's about 5" above where it would be sitting on 45 lb plates on the floor. The movement is all about pivoting at the hip. I still don't really regard it as an isolation move though :)
 
Debaser said:


I believe flexibility is the least important thing right now. I need him to be 100% devoted to 2 solid, hardcore workouts a week. Absolutely no flexibility or variation of any kind. Just straightforward progress, pure and simple. Then I will ensure consistant poundage progression and proper recovery.

And you think the program that I proposed:

isn't hardcore?
isn't simple?
a program that cannot increase poundages?
a program that does not provide recovery?


If you don't include flexibility. . thats a one way ticket to a plateau and boredom.
 
Last edited:
Debaser said:
Regarding rounding, that's why I advocate a slightly partial SLDL. Find the point where your back starts to lose its arch, and then adjust the bar position accordingly. For me that's about 5" above where it would be sitting on 45 lb plates on the floor. The movement is all about pivoting at the hip. I still don't really regard it as an isolation move though :)

Fair enough.

I'll close by saying I still think that the necessary arch for both types of deads is easier taught and safer with the regular deads, and is one of THE core moves, which everyone should have in their routine at some point.


But that might just be me.......:)


Joker
 
Joker I totally agree. If he's satisfied with this training cycle I would probably switch in regular deadlifts for the next one, or perhaps add them in addition.

Louden to answer your questions, it's hardcore, but not simple enough and it won't be as easy to recover from as this schedule. I'm putting him on the basics before he starts worrying about training his forearms (hell I don't worry about this). And now I'm pretty unsure of your definition of flexibility.

I'm signing off for the night, everyone else add in their opinion and I'll get to them in the morning....
 
Bad day (bad sleep, ate too soon 1-hour before workout)

Bench 115 lbs: 8, 6, 4 (feels pretty light normally, can do 5x5 with it...could have been a bad bench (feet weren't planted completely on the floor & rack was a bit too high)

Rows: 115 lbs 2x8 Pretty good, still had reps in the tank

SLDL: I'm not at all familiar with this movement 95 lbs 2x8, still had reps in the tank. I'm more accustomed to DLs

Bench again: 115, 8, 4, 2

At this point my lunch felt as though it was coming back up :(, felt really nauseous

Crunches 2x10

Post workout shake: 46g of protein, 70 g dextrose
Lesson learned: eat 2 hours before and go lower on bench
 
Why'd you bench twice? Not a smart move I'm afraid.

Looking forward to watching your progress. This is a good routine :)
 
see if it was the bench that was the prob or myself
hey how do you drink half a gallon of milk and a gallon of water without having to take a piss every 5 minutes?
 
The Red Dragon said:
see if it was the bench that was the prob or myself
hey how do you drink half a gallon of milk and a gallon of water without having to take a piss every 5 minutes?

you'll get use to it...Keep up the good work.
 
The Red Dragon said:
Bad day (bad sleep, ate too soon 1-hour before workout)

Bench 115 lbs: 8, 6, 4 (feels pretty light normally, can do 5x5 with it...could have been a bad bench (feet weren't planted completely on the floor & rack was a bit too high)

Rows: 115 lbs 2x8 Pretty good, still had reps in the tank

SLDL: I'm not at all familiar with this movement 95 lbs 2x8, still had reps in the tank. I'm more accustomed to DLs

Bench again: 115, 8, 4, 2

At this point my lunch felt as though it was coming back up :(, felt really nauseous

Crunches 2x10

Post workout shake: 46g of protein, 70 g dextrose
Lesson learned: eat 2 hours before and go lower on bench

Your reps probably shouldn't drop that much on the bench unless you have less than a minute between sets. Something like 8, 6, 5 would have been more appropriate. However, remember I said to start off light. You should probably have made all 3 sets of 8.

Stiff-legged deadlifts you can do a lot more trust me. But you're doing this exactly right: learn the movement with good form, then start increasing the weight. Starting off light is the right thing to do.

Yeah I've eaten a big meal right before a workout and it does mess with you.
 
I'm hitting the protein quota with milk and whey + real food and fat quota with UDO's but I'm having trouble hitting the water balance...perhaps I should build up to 4L slowly?

Yesterday:
Postworkout shake
3 milk shakes
2.5L of water

How important would you consider real food. I don't get hungry while taking so many protein shakes, I probably have 2-3 real meals a day. Usually 1 submarine and one cafeteria type dinner (University food). I'm gonna get a huge shipment of oatmeal as a primary carb source. My meal plan is almost bankrupt and I'm 1/2 way within the term :). I just found out milk prices shot up 2x.

I know what hyperextensions are, but I don't know how to do them with the equipment the gym. (There's no apparatus specifically designed for hyperextensions or any other bodyweights - including dips and pullups)
 
I have to run out the door for awhile but I will give you a detailed reply tonight.
 
The Red Dragon said:
I'm hitting the protein quota with milk and whey + real food and fat quota with UDO's but I'm having trouble hitting the water balance...perhaps I should build up to 4L slowly?

Yesterday:
Postworkout shake
3 milk shakes
2.5L of water

it's a cliche bodybuilder thing, but carry around a half gallon or gallon jug of water around with you. Just drink a few gulps every 5-10 minutes or so. This sounds annoying but it becomes second nature in no time. One thing to remember is that the body's thirst mechanism is extremely inaccurate. Ever notice you could have a really hard training session, be incredibly thirsty, and drink a few sips of water and your thirst is quenched? You're still dehydrated (or rather, getting there) and need more water. Eventually when you start drinking that much water, your body realizes it's a good thing and you'll start to get thirsty much more frequently.

How important would you consider real food. I don't get hungry while taking so many protein shakes, I probably have 2-3 real meals a day. Usually 1 submarine and one cafeteria type dinner (University food). I'm gonna get a huge shipment of oatmeal as a primary carb source. My meal plan is almost bankrupt and I'm 1/2 way within the term :). I just found out milk prices shot up 2x.

I would shoot for at least 3 real food meals a day. More if preferable, but 3 is the minimum. Enjoy food, eat a lot of it :)

I know what hyperextensions are, but I don't know how to do them with the equipment the gym. (There's no apparatus specifically designed for hyperextensions or any other bodyweights - including dips and pullups)

Is there any kind of lower back machine in the gym?
 
Guess my motivation is back :) Skipped my lab preparation to train.

Thursday 12:40-1:20 pm EST

OHP Military Press: 3x8 65 lbs (felt very light at first but final rep was very difficult)

Pulldowns: 2x8 80lbs
Not familiar with these, usually did pullups with a counterweight (old gym). Should the bar touch the upper chest or just inches away?

Squats: 2x8 135 lbs, way too easy =/

Hyperextension (found the apparatus): 3x8 very easy...perhaps I should have added resistance

Diet:
Water still lagging (2-3L consumed/day)
Milk followed
Protein followed
Fats followed

1 question about diet. Is the excess calcium/vitamin D going to be a concern? Apparently my diet surpases the toxicity levels (3500 mg/2000 mg calcium) but no one on this board seems to have renal/soft tissue problems.
 
The Red Dragon said:
1 question about diet. Is the excess calcium/vitamin D going to be a concern? Apparently my diet surpases the toxicity levels (3500 mg/2000 mg calcium) but no one on this board seems to have renal/soft tissue problems.

Forget about RDA's. If you're seriously concerned, get blood work done a few times a year and monitor things, just to be sure.

For instance, my mum is worried about the amount of eggs I eat in regards to my cholestrol levels. I tell her that dietary cholestrol is of little concern, especially since I eat minimal saturated fats, sugars and workout regularly. However, I'm getting my blood done soon just to be sure :)
 
People at my gym are too obsessed with benching so I usually have to wait for flat benches. But I think I'm gonna replace flat bench with inclines...is that a good idea? I hear inclines are better for chest development anyway.

Incline 3x8 75 lbs *had a lot of reps in the tank

BB Row = 2x8 95 lbs, very hungry (schedule hectic today), but form was perfect

SLDL = 115 lbs good form, still had reps in the tank

Crunch 3x8
 
Hmm, inclines don't cause DOMS like flat bench...I feel nothing...perhaps the weight was too light. There was no pump either...not that these are significant.
 
Ok, Swain and I don't always get along, but one this one I have to agree with the workout and advise he gave. RD, I think the workout he outlined for you will yield excellent results if you follow it completely.

As far as the peeing constantly, you will adapt and won't have to pee as often over time. Its a small price to pay, but a necissary one if you plan on making serious progress.
 
OHP

65x8, 75x6 (shoulder girdle pulled), 70x5

Squats

2x8x155 lbs (Felt decent)

Pulldowns

2x8x80lbs good form (Fixed)

Hyperextensions

3x10 with 25 lb plate...still too easy

Diet followed, maybe missing 500mL of water/milk here and there but protein quota definately met by other means.
 
I'm glad you're sticking with this, ESPECIALLY diet because that's the true key to progress.

Make sure with the OHPs you're keeping your elbows in and not letting them drift outward as the bar moves up. You'll move less weight but these work the shoulders more and are safer too IMO.
 
The Red Dragon said:
Hmm, inclines don't cause DOMS like flat bench...I feel nothing...perhaps the weight was too light. There was no pump either...not that these are significant.

inclines are great! make sure your not at too much of an angle though... i think 30deg is enough... i started doing inclines and my bench went up about 30lbs... my inclines went to where my old bench was.. pretty incredible... keep going strong bro!
 
Thanks guy.

Yeah I was forcing my elbows out. I thought abduction of the arms would hit the deltoids more :), my mistake.

Inclines it is, I never really liked flat bench because I didn't feel it hitting my chest.

My weight went up to 192 from 185...probably from all the water I'm drinking. I should probably cut soon, my BF levels are maybe 18+.

One thing about the protein shakes, I get tired, dizzy and sometimes nauseous after taking em (esp on an empty stomach) what is that? (I use lactase treated milk with vitamin D/vitamin A added).
 
The Red Dragon said:
Thanks guy.

Yeah I was forcing my elbows out. I thought abduction of the arms would hit the deltoids more :), my mistake.

Inclines it is, I never really liked flat bench because I didn't feel it hitting my chest.

My weight went up to 192 from 185...probably from all the water I'm drinking. I should probably cut soon, my BF levels are maybe 18+.

One thing about the protein shakes, I get tired, dizzy and sometimes nauseous after taking em (esp on an empty stomach) what is that? (I use lactase treated milk with vitamin D/vitamin A added).

1. Inclines are fine, so long as you're doing a major pressing movement it's all good.

2. Don't think about cutting till the three months is up. Till that happens eat like it's going out of style.

3. I never have protein shakes on an empty stomach, because my stomach is never empty :) But someone else might be able to help with this one...
 
Incline 8+8+6 85 lbs *lactic acid/endurance :(

BB Row = 2x8 115 lbs Partial reps began at rep 7 then rep 6 during the second set

SLDL = 135 lbs good form, too easy...but I didn't feel a stretch in my hams so I'm starting to wonder if my form was fucked

Crunch Pending

I think my forearms need work, they're pretty small & endurance sucks (thats why I couldn't rep out 8 with BB rows). And forearms go out first before the back during regular deads.

What muscles are taken out on the incline movement? Shoulders?
 
Major snow storm so I had to use my residence gym (a piece of shit)

Push Press (switching to these because they simply feel like I've worked a hell of a lot more or used my max potential)

95lbs 6/6/5

Squats

1 set of 8 reps: 165 lbs
1 set of 8 reps: 175 lbs

Pulldowns (different set up)

2x8 of 90 lbs

Hyper machine unavailable but I was showing people how to deadlift the day before (got DOMS from it somehow)

I got 4 hours of sleep today so that screwed things up


As for diet, it went to hell this week due to an exam but it'll be back on track
 
yeah stick at it but be careful on the PP if you don't have a solid foundation you can mess your shoulders up doing them.
 
Thanks

Monday

Incline BP 2x8 at 95 lbs, and a set of 7 reps :(
Barbell Row 2x8 115 lbs good form...felt easy
SLDL 2x8 145 lbs

Diet back on track
 
Push Press 95 lbs 2x8 + 5 reps (lost balance while failing)

Lat pulldowns 100 2x8 form terrible 2" from chest first time 6 the next set

Squats 2x8 185 lbs

Hypers 3x8 35 lb plate, still to easy

Didn't go too well today (in terms of feeling good - bad sleep). I was ready to puke after the first set of squats and hypers didn't help ;).
 
You've mentioned this a couple times and no one else has, so I feel compelled to state the obvious.

You will progress MUCH faster if you're getting at least 8 hours of sleep a night ( I shoot for 9) . Force yourself to sleep. Get yourself on a schedule and stick to it. If it means going to bed at 9pm to sleep till 6 or 7, do it.

I find if I'm coming off 7 hours or less, my max weight is reduced by as much as 10% when I lift.

And sleeping 10 hours is soooo cool.

;)
 
I'm aware of the necessity of sleep but it's rather difficult when you live in a first year university residence, especially if your roomate is a procrastinator. I'm thinking of getting melatonin if I'm tired enough, I can sleep through anything.
 
i hear ya on the sleep bro. i'm not a senior and i haven't had a consistent sleep schedule since i came to college. wish i had some advice to give you, but obviously i haven't been able to solve that problem myself. it is no doubt the biggest factor in slowing my gains.
 
Incline BP 8 8 6 (failed) 100 lbs
Barbell row 2x8 125 lbs
SLDL 2x8 155 lbs very easy...but 145 was difficult last week

My ~10"? POS forearms are too weak, they will give out before anything else. Any ideas on how to fix this?
 
Start doing static holds. Grab a pair of dumbells or a barbell. Hold on to it for 60 seconds. Don't just hold the bar, squeeze it hard. Once you can hold that weight for 90 seconds go up in weight.
 
Push press 100 lbs 3x8, very easy (gotten use to the movement)
Squats 195 lbs 8 reps, 205 reps 7 reps (my bad the 195 felt too easy)
Lat pulldown 3x8
No hyper machine available in the open gym (I suppose I have to do it tomorrow...is there less growth/progress if it's done the day after)?
 
Alright getting started again after a month (back in school). I lost 2 weeks in December due to some weird headache, the neurologist said it should go away by January. It's good now. For the past week I was just playing around with weights to get my strength back.

BP still 135, 50 lb dumbells, 45 lb on inclines
Squat dropped a lot, last squat was 205, now 185?
Deadlift 225, odd pain in the back it may be too heavy
Lat Pulldown 120 :) big jump...somehow
BB Row 135 feels easy

I guess the rest did some good on some lifts...and was detrimental to others.

I think I'm gonna try a DC type split unless you have any objections/suggestions Debaser?
 
Chest: Bench 140 lbs 8, 6

Shoulders: 2x4 100 lb military press...can usually do 3x8 with 105 but triceps taxed...I don't know

Tricep: CGBP: 115 lbs 2x8...taxed from initial BP & should press, my CGBP matches my BP

Back Thickness:Deadlift: 225 lbs 2x5, easy while looking at the mirror, would usually feel heavy, or maybe because my CNS is back on track

Back Width: LatPulldown: 2x8 120 lbs

Felt very good after...well very dazed and exhausted. Just disappointed at not lifting as much due to taxed ant delts & triceps. Resuming diet.
 
Bad supplies at gym (last week Wednesday)

215 squats 2x8
45 lb wrist curls 2x12 pronated and supinated so 4 sets total
80 lb curls 5x5, barbell
(hamstrings and calves omitted due to inadequate apparatusies, & broken barbell)

Friday missed due to emerg

Today

2x8 150 nailed easily (must be due to presence of spotter)
2x5 235 conventional deadlifts, I love these
2x8 155 lb rows
triceps horror 8+4 reps on close grip 140 lbs

Good workout day, but I had huge meal before going into the gym. Good sleep, very satisfied.
 
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