Really having trouble with my split

[Nakor]

I've done starting strength, 5x5, HST, and through these programs, put on 50 pounds and made great strength and size gains. I'm looking to try a split for the first time but I'm having some issues. Some things to keep in mind

-I prefer to train 3 days a week. It's what I've been doing and I have had great results with it.
-I've noticed my chest in particular responds much better to 2x a week training. This can be problematic with a 3 day split.
-My lower body stuff mainly consists of Squats, Front Squats, and Deads. I don't really see a reason to do much more.

Here is where I am now. Feel free to tear it apart.

Day 1: Push, Squats

Squats 5x5
Bench 5x5
Dips 3 to failure
Incline dumbells 3x10
Tris 3x10

Day 2: Pull

Deads 3x5
Rows 3x5
Chins 3 to failure
Bis

Day 3: Squats, Push

Squats 5x5
OHP 5x5
Close grip Bench 5x5
More shoulder work?

Obviously this is pretty rough. I would really appreciate any ideas, additions, changes, or comments you guys could give me.

 

[C0LUMB0]

I've done starting strength, 5x5, HST, and through these programs, put on 50 pounds and made great strength and size gains. I'm looking to try a split for the first time but I'm having some issues. Some things to keep in mind

-I prefer to train 3 days a week. It's what I've been doing and I have had great results with it.
-I've noticed my chest in particular responds much better to 2x a week training. This can be problematic with a 3 day split.
-My lower body stuff mainly consists of Squats, Front Squats, and Deads. I don't really see a reason to do much more.

Here is where I am now. Feel free to tear it apart.

Day 1: Push, Front Squats

Front Squats
Bench 5x5
Dips 2x8 do 3 sets to failure
Incline dumbells 3x5 do 3x10
Tris 3x10 skull crushers

Day 2: Pull

Deads 3x5
Rows 3x5
Chins 2x5 do 3 sets to failure
Bis alternating DB curls - good form and nice slow negative reps.

Day 3: Back Squats, Push

Squats 5x5
OHP 5x5
Some extra chest work? close grip bench 5x5More shoulder work? up right rows 3 x 10
Obviously this is pretty rough. I would really appreciate any ideas, additions, changes, or comments you guys could give me.

^^^^^^^ text in red.

 

[_cato_]

Why not do a full body on day 3, since you have a lower body lift on each of the other days. Ie. squat+1 push+1pull+maybe 1 other. Similar to the other routine you posted, you have a lot more pushing than pulling if you're going to do 2 days push vs 1 pull.

 

[Nakor]

^^^^^^^ text in red.

Thanks. I made the changes that you suggested. Only thing I didn't like were the upright rows. They're just an injury waiting to happen. Any other suggestions?

 

[Nakor]

Why not do a full body on day 3, since you have a lower body lift on each of the other days. Ie. squat+1 push+1pull+maybe 1 other. Similar to the other routine you posted, you have a lot more pushing than pulling if you're going to do 2 days push vs 1 pull.

I know I have much more push than pull but I really don't know what to do about it. I don't really do a whole lot pulling aside from the stuff I have on here already.

 

[_cato_]

I know I have much more push than pull but I really don't know what to do about it. I don't really do a whole lot pulling aside from the stuff I have on here already.

You can do whatever you want, I'm just curious why you keep making routines with roughly twice as much push as pull. It seems to me like you are basically trying to create your own 5x5 program cause you had success with that type of training, but also trying to turn it into a split (I guess just to try it out?). Because you're sticking lower body lifts on all three days you are pretty much making a 5x5 style routine with 2x as much push as pull. Full body push, full body pull, full body push is what you currently have. If that is consistent with your goals, then go ahead and do it.

If you're dead set on making one of these quasi-5x5/split routines, and you would rather it be more balanced, then just alternate between full body push and full body pull routines, whether there is just one or two different variations of each. This would be similar to alternating upper/lower.

Maybe add a fourth workout to rotate in with power cleans, stiff leg deads, chinups and a bi exercise (or something along those lines), or else repeat your pull day.

Otherwise what I was suggesting before was to do something like squat, overhead press, chinups for your day three, which would hit pushing and pulling muscles.

 

[Nakor]

You can do whatever you want, I'm just curious why you keep making routines with roughly twice as much push as pull. It seems to me like you are basically trying to create your own 5x5 program cause you had success with that type of training, but also trying to turn it into a split (I guess just to try it out?). Because you're sticking lower body lifts on all three days you are pretty much making a 5x5 style routine with 2x as much push as pull. Full body push, full body pull, full body push is what you currently have. If that is consistent with your goals, then go ahead and do it.

If you're dead set on making one of these quasi-5x5/split routines, and you would rather it be more balanced, then just alternate between full body push and full body pull routines, whether there is just one or two different variations of each. This would be similar to alternating upper/lower.

Maybe add a fourth workout to rotate in with power cleans, stiff leg deads, chinups and a bi exercise (or something along those lines), or else repeat your pull day.

Otherwise what I was suggesting before was to do something like squat, overhead press, chinups for your day three, which would hit pushing and pulling muscles.

Yea I guess that is what I'm trying to do. I've had all my success with 5x5 type programs and that's really all I know. I guess I don't really feel like I worked out unless I Squat or Deadlift, hence the reason for one of them being on each day. I guess my goals were to make a program similar to 5x5 but with more focus on size gains with stuff like incline and all my pushing stuff on one day. Don't know if that makes sense. Either way, I really appreciate your insight.

 

[_cato_]

Yea I guess that is what I'm trying to do. I've had all my success with 5x5 type programs and that's really all I know. I guess I don't really feel like I worked out unless I Squat or Deadlift, hence the reason for one of them being on each day. I guess my goals were to make a program similar to 5x5 but with more focus on size gains with stuff like incline and all my pushing stuff on one day. Don't know if that makes sense. Either way, I really appreciate your insight.

Based on what you said, if it was me, I think it makes the most sense to do something like 4 day full body push/full body pull rotation, and then repeat it on a 3 day or 4 day per week schedule. That way you can do a squat or deadlift variation every workout and still put in more volume to make it like a body part split, while still keeping it balanced. Start off with something like the following and see how you tolerate the volume, and then add or subtract from there.

Day 1: FBPush1 (horizontal pushing emphasis)

Squats 5x5
Bench 5x5
Incline dumbells 3x10
Tris 3x10 (skullcrusher/french press?)

Day 2: FBPull1 (horizontal pulling emphasis)

Deads 3x5 (or 5x5 if you're doing less than 400)
BB Rows 5x5
Chins 3 to failure or 3x8 weighted if you can do more than 10 at BW
Bis 3x10 (ez bar curl?)

Day 3: FBPush2 (vertical pushing emphasis

Front Squat 5x3
OHP 5x5
Close grip Bench 3x8
Tris 3x10 (cable vbar pushdown?)

Day 4: FBPull2 (vertical pulling emphasis)

BB SLDL/RDL 5x5
Pullups 5xfailure or add weight and do 5x5 if you can do 10+ BW
DB Row 3x8
Bi 3x10 (DB curl/hammer curl?)

Then you can do this as 3x/week: M-push1, W-pull1, F-push2, M-pull 2, W-push1, F-pull1, etc
or 4x/week: M-push1, W-pull1, F-push2, Sat-pull2, repeat

 

[_cato_]

I may have said this to you before (don't recall), but you've obviously made great progress with high frequency, 3 day a week stuff. I'd be pretty hesitant to change it up too much, unless you're really losing/have already lost motivation to train. I think ultimately that's the most important thing for most people.

 

[Nakor]

I may have said this to you before (don't recall), but you've obviously made great progress with high frequency, 3 day a week stuff. I'd be pretty hesitant to change it up too much, unless you're really losing/have already lost motivation to train. I think ultimately that's the most important thing for most people.

Thanks a lot for your help and insight. I was trying to change it up slightly but not too drastically (hence the quasi 5x5 body part split).

Be honest though, do you think I'm changing it up too much given my success with what I've been doing? I actually made my best gains doing HST but I felt like doing the program as it was written was holding back my strength gains (after a certain amount of time you're supposed to decondition and then scale back the weight and start ramping up again).