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Real BEST Cardio

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MiamiStyle245

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I am a little bit confused as to what the best type of cardio is for losing fat, but preserving lean muscle mass. I have heard that high intensity (heart rate:80%max) for 30-45min is ideal for burning fat. I have also heard that this type of cardio can be very catabolic. I have read that sprinting and other types of intermittent cardio is great for losing fat/saving muscle, but have also heard that basketball is worthless when it comes to burning fat(have neither seen many fat or big/muscular bball players). Some say low intensity cardio for an extended period, an hour or so, will do the best job in saving muscle/burning fat. We can all agree that cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is ideal, but let's get to the bottom of the 'what type of cardio' debate. All responses appreciated.
 
Sled dragging is by far the best..There are threads on it so use the search. Basicly fill an old tire with weights, strap a rope around the tire, attatch the rope to your weight belt and drag...

Burns fat and build up the legs at the same time...Best cardio ever
 
try sandbag carries or farmers walk. i understand both are just as taxing as sprints, while getting a full body workout.

oh yeah skipping with weighted rope too.
 
MiamiStyle245 said:
I am a little bit confused as to what the best type of cardio is for losing fat, but preserving lean muscle mass. I have heard that high intensity (heart rate:80%max) for 30-45min is ideal for burning fat. I have also heard that this type of cardio can be very catabolic. I have read that sprinting and other types of intermittent cardio is great for losing fat/saving muscle, but have also heard that basketball is worthless when it comes to burning fat(have neither seen many fat or big/muscular bball players). Some say low intensity cardio for an extended period, an hour or so, will do the best job in saving muscle/burning fat. We can all agree that cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is ideal, but let's get to the bottom of the 'what type of cardio' debate. All responses appreciated.
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It takes your body a good 20 min to get up to speed and burning fat most efficiently. Also, for maximum fat burning you should keep your HR around 55-65% maxHR...this is where your body most efficiently burns fat. As your HR increases, carbs and prot begin to be utilized more heavily. As a very general rule, if you can't carry on a conversation you're going too hard. That's not to say that changing things up isn't a good idea. Use 45-60 min at 65% as a basis, but throw in tempo or interval day where you alternate going hard and then recovering for a good 30 min after a 20 min warmup. Real cardio is to increase the fitness of your cardiovascular system...this is different from primary goal being fat loss.

JoBu
 
Right now, my options for cardio are limited due to legal issues, but currently, in the morning, on an empty stomach, I run up and down two flights of stairs with a twenty-five pound weighted vest for 10 reps, four sets, with rest in between(maybe five minutes rest. I alternate the sets with my roommate). I do this every other day. The other days, I hit the heavy bag for about 30 minutes. I usually work out with weights for an hour and a half four times a week. I have lost about 20 pounds and look much more toned, but am trying to get >10% bf. Going to try the yohimburn DF, when my hand recovers as I have a pretty badly jammed thumb and doing any lifts where I have to push, instead of pull is impossible and punching the heavy bag is no good. I eat five small meals a day and do not eat carbs after around 2 in the afternoon. By the way, endomorph with gyno since puberty. 5'11" 220.
 
Regardles of the type or intensity of the cardio if you do to much you will lose muscle. I like to do my cardio following weight training because my body has already entered a fat burning mode. Immediatly after exercise I take in a shake consisting of 40 grams carbs, 70 grams protien and 10 grams L-glutimine. This shake seems to give my muscles one hell of a boost.:)
 
We all agree that cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is good? SAYS WHO???

Cardio on an empty stomach is one of the most catabolic activities you can undertake. That was one of those hypothesis that someone at a magazine thought would make an interesting article and it's been parroted forever.

JoBu's last sentence is 100% correct. However the numbers are nonsense. There are far too many variables. Again, it's just one of those things that was assumed and everyone in the industry went along with it.

Try to realize; the body does not know what activity it's engaged in! When someone says THIS activity is better than THAT activity, it's patently absurd. The body only knows stress. How one responds to it varies from individual to individual.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Cardio on an empty stomach is one of the most catabolic activities you can undertake. That was one of those hypothesis that someone at a magazine thought would make an interesting article and it's been parroted forever.

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I agree. I tried that once when cutting(natty) and I lost tons of muscle. That was the only time I was doing cardio and now I am cutting (much slower) and doing cardio after workouts 3 times a week and I am getting great results!
 
remember if you are going to train at 80% of MHR first thing in the morning you better take some l glutamine before hand because that will be extremely catabolic to your body... best bet for fat buring is 60% max heart rate 1st thing in mornging 30-60mins..it will save you more muscle than at 80% where you body will use all glycogen stores as enegy instead of fat. btw muscles store tons of gycogen and there for they become stripped of it and break down. there is you catabolisn
 
I agree with you 100% that each body reacts differently to various excersizes. Cardio first thing in the morning seems to be pretty well-liked around the board as I have noticed many people say that is what they do. I also seem to logically assume that cardio on an empty stomach would allow a person to attack fat stores rather than food that is currently in the system being digested. It also makes sense to me that if these fat stores are being hit, muscles might be getting depleted simultaneously, and I am currently trying to preserve all my hard earned muscle while getting cut. I am by no means any scientist and I am not sure what the answer to this question is, but I am eager to learn more about this subject and your response was appreciated as were all others.
 
To all:

What makes you presume you're burning fat if the cardio is first thing in the morning? Because you're hungry?

You would have to run about 10 miles before you used all the available glucose in your body. And you'd still burn more muscle than fat.

Glutimine will do nothing except raise ammonia levels in the bood.
 
Nelson Montana said:
To all:

What makes you presume you're burning fat if the cardio is first thing in the morning? Because you're hungry?

You would have to run about 10 miles before you used all the available glucose in your body. And you'd still burn more muscle than fat.

Glutimine will do nothing except raise ammonia levels in the bood.
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i think many including myself would disagree with you on the cardio in the morning being a bad idea...especially the endomorphs, i would assume going catabolic is more an ecto concern...that is just my opinion though...
 
Hmm. Would traditional cardio (re: running, cycling) cause more upper body mass to be burned? If so, then how is swimming for burning fat?

I think the answer lies in this question: What changes does the body experience during cardio? What exactly does it do, and (hopefully) why? I would really like to know that.

If muscle wasting is really a problem with cardio, then why can't we just diet? It may not be as fast, but would it preserve more muscle? Honestly, I would rather just eat less than seriously risk losing gains.

Anyone?
 
Does anyone know for sure if going catabolic is more of a concern to ectomorphs and endomorphs need not worry as much. As for dieting on its own...science would imply to me that as long as your running a calorie deficit, the fat should come off, but personally, I can't seem to get slim without cardio. I do not eat a lot and never really had, but seem to have a problem keeping the fat controlled. I don't care though, I will be 8% through dedication and hard training/dieting.
 
49 years old.

Maintain 9% bf year 'round. Same as I had when I was 40 pounds lighter.

No cardio.


It's all diet and training.

And BTW, I eat pizza almost every day.
 
Nelson Montana said:
49 years old.

Maintain 9% bf year 'round. Same as I had when I was 40 pounds lighter.

No cardio.


It's all diet and training.

And BTW, I eat pizza almost every day.
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case and point...an ecto-morph, u eat pizza everyday and yet have abs all year round...u cant expect people with different make ups to have the same metabolism as u do...u my friend are an ectomorph, some of us arent as lucky as u with those abs all year round, but we gain mass alot quicker :p
 
Irrelevant. The same principle applies to everyone and I've had hundreds of clients to prove it --ecto, endo and meso.

At my age, ectomorph doesn't apply. Try weighing 190 at age 49 and get back to me about how easy it is to stay lean.

Besides, if cardio was so great it would get me down to 8% bf. But it doesn't.

Training and diet. Training and diet.

Aerobics are a waste of time.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Irrelevant. The same principle applies to everyone and I've had hundreds of clients to prove it --ecto, endo and meso.

At my age, ectomorph doesn't apply. Try weighing 190 at age 49 and get back to me about how easy it is to stay lean.

Besides, if cardio was so great it would get me down to 8% bf. But it doesn't.

Training and diet. Training and diet.

Aerobics are a waste of time.
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so the pros do cardio for what reason then? maybe the cardio u are doing is inefficient for your body and you have to change/alter it accordingly...for some walking for an hour works wonders, for you, i take it, you have to do a different type for similiar results...i guess i am lucky then...

also, what diet do you recommend...im curious, maybe ill give it a shot coming up when i cut up...
 
diet will only get you so far you need to exercise to boost metaolic rate
 
In my opinion i think u will burn fat with any cardio where u sweat and bring up ur heart rate..I how long u would want to do it for really depends on the individual and really doesnt have to be a specific number of minutes..if ur a fat bastard then in the first 5 min u will prob start burning where as if u been doing it for a while then u would need much more since ur used to it and will be much easier for u...as far as basketball players not being big i think thats cause i dont think they would be as flexible if they had huge muscles i dont think that the basketball playing itself is killing there muscles...
 
Absolutely...basketball players definitely do not want to be so big that their flexibility is hindered, but if you follow basketball, you probably have noticed the 15 lbs of muscle Kobe Bryant put on in the offseason. I think that the trend of working out in basketball started with the the man himself, Michael Jordan. Having increased lean muscle mass can help you no matter what position you play in basketball, but the players with the nice physiques(although not big, but lean and cut) definitely hit the weights. It goes back to whether basketball is anabolic or aerobic. I have heard that sprinting is anabolic and therefore good for getting lean while preserving muscle because you are raising your heartrate while developing muscle, rather than burning it. If you were to compare pics of sprinters to those of distance runners, their physiques are incomparable. To me is seems that basketball would not really be aerobic because there is a lot of resting and quick bursts of energy involved. I'm not sure though.
 
I think that anyone who suggests that you can eat pizza every day and still be lean without doing any cardio has lost all credibility in this argument. :rolleyes:


Genetics play a huge roll in this, and he obviously has better genetics for staying lean then I do. :(
 
You're missing my point. No cardio doesn't mean no fat burning. What I'm saying is that proper training burns fat better than aerobics. Do you think that that after 30 years of training I still need to find the cardio that's right for me?

Eating pizza doesn't mean eating sloppy. It means you can eat what you want if you eat correctly. And I hardly have great genetics. But having better genes or worse genes has nothing to do with it. It's about getting the best results possible -- whatever your genetic potential.

Some pros do cardio, some don't. A lot of them are clueless. They just have great genetics and take tremendous amounts of drugs. I disagreed with Mentzer on a lot of things but he didn't do cardio and got pretty ripped in his day. Arnold didn't do cardio. Many of you may not remember Zabo Kosewski but he had the most amazing abs you ever saw. No cardio.

Sweating gives the impression leanness because you lose water. You do not burn fat when you sweat. Heart rate does not effect fat loss.

This is just one of those things some people will never get. They're too entrenched in the mind set of what they've been led to believe for too long.
 
nelson: personal testimonials are wonderful. my hats off to you, but i'd prefer to see some data and science to back up your claims (and anyone else's for that matter).

my grandmother smokes two packs a day and is now 96. she tells me smoking is good for her. surely i just can't take HER word for it, can i?
 
Glutimine will do nothing except raise ammonia levels in the bood.


__________________

Nelson, glutimine is quite valuable as an anticatabolic, it helps to prevent muscle catabolism, boosts the immune system, repairs any damege that one may have in the intestinal tract, and helps to maximize nutrient absorbtion from the intestines. As for the above statement about raising blood ammonia levels, that's way off center. Glutimine is the vehicle by which ammonia is transported from tissues through the circulatory system where it can be excreated in urine. Low glutimine levels can lead to excessive ammonia build up not vice versa.
 
Nelson Montana said:
You're missing my point. No cardio doesn't mean no fat burning. What I'm saying is that proper training burns fat better than aerobics. Do you think that that after 30 years of training I still need to find the cardio that's right for me?

Eating pizza doesn't mean eating sloppy. It means you can eat what you want if you eat correctly. And I hardly have great genetics. But having better genes or worse genes has nothing to do with it. It's about getting the best results possible -- whatever your genetic potential.

Some pros do cardio, some don't. A lot of them are clueless. They just have great genetics and take tremendous amounts of drugs. I disagreed with Mentzer on a lot of things but he didn't do cardio and got pretty ripped in his day. Arnold didn't do cardio. Many of you may not remember Zabo Kosewski but he had the most amazing abs you ever saw. No cardio.

Sweating gives the impression leanness because you lose water. You do not burn fat when you sweat. Heart rate does not effect fat loss.

This is just one of those things some people will never get. They're too entrenched in the mind set of what they've been led to believe for too long.
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can you post a cutting diet that you would recommend...i would love to see it and possibly incorporate it in my cutter...:)
 
I find it very hard to believe that genetics and natural metabolism doesnt play a big role in fat burning. Of course the Pros might not have to do cardio, but thats because like you stated, the insane amount of drugs and great genetics. My lifting partner has never went above 9-10% while bulking and that is while eating everything in site, he cant put fat no matter how hard he tries, his metabolism is that fast. He easily can cut down to 6-7% with just diet and training. Me on the other hand has a very slow metabolism. I have went from 9% bf to 18% in a matter on months while bulking.

Now, If me and him were to try and cut down in say a 3 month period, a little comp per say, you are trying to tell me that a strict diet and training will keep me right on pace with him, i dont think so. I agree that it is possible, but it will take me about 6 months to lose the amount of bf he lost in 2 months. Now, lets say I throw in cardio, are you saying that it would not speed the process up and make op the difference in our metabolism differences??

someone please answer this
 
I did cardio after my workout for many years and never got as cut as I wanted to. Now I get my lazy ass up in the morning, take a few fat burners, and do about 20 minutes of moderate bike or stairmaster at the gym. I choose those exercises since they tend to help keep mass on the legs, unlike running, which makes me loose size. We all know the body adapts to whatever exercise you do - Runners are thin and lean, while sprinters are thicker. Therefore, if you keep the amount of time (of the exercise) down and resistance up, you'll keep more mass.
I wish I could just diet alone, but my body ain't down with that. I'll go through a week of morning cardio, then take a week off. For those of you in the same boat as me when it comes to fat loss, you should give it a try. I haven't noticed it to be catabolic on me, I just get nice and lean and keep the calories up.
 
Nelson I really wanna see how you maintain your bf while eating pizza everyday-------pleasse enlighten a little more on what really works for burning fat..
 
You are missing Nelson's simple point. Fat loss happens due to a negative calorie balance, not because you do xxx exercise for yyy minutes at zzz heartrate. Cardio burns calories, as does every other activity you do throughout the day so there is no "magic" that happens when you step on a treadmill. If you want to lose fat then create a caloric deficit and do some form of weight training to signal the body to preserve it's muscle. Anything after that is basically fluff.

Can cardio help you burn fat? Sure if your diet is sub par and you need to help it out. Can you lose all the fat you want by just diet and weight training? Yep. I think you guys would be amazed at what a well planned diet and workout regimen could provide you given you executed it correctly. Cardio shouldn't be a crutch you rely on to get lean. I'd rather eat 300 less calories per day than to jump on some treadmill and run aimlessly like a hamster in a wheel.

If you like cardio then by all means do it, but don't do it because you think you have to in order to burn fat.

Here are some pics from last year. I think it's rather obvious from the before pics that I'm not an ectomorph with a gifted metabolism. I'll be 30 next month as well so I don't have youth to help me out either. Yet even with these 2 factors working against me I was able to make that transformation in a little over 3 months time without cardio. Unfortunately due to a new baby and job I wasn't able to get down to my goal, however I'm back at it this spring and will be as lean as I want to be. All without cardio. By the way I'm not claiming to be incredibly lean in the pics, but the difference in condition between the 2 time frames without cardio is what my point is.

Before and after sans cardio.
 
Sprints, farmer's walk, high rep squats.

Anyone who does any of that in the a.m., on an empty stomach, will never theorize again about any of this.

Losing muscle? We're talking about a 20 minute workout here. How much muscle will you lose? The fat is burned all day, after the exercise. Go to maximum intensity, to total failure.

I have never ever seen this approach fail. Not once. I can get to 5% with this, without drugs. It works. Try it first, eight weeks, then come back and post your theories.

They will be much different.
 
nelson:

aren't you on hrt year round?

i would think if i was on gh and test for even 1/2 the year i would be able to do away with cardio.

drop the hrt therapy and let's see what your bf is 6 months later.

if you are not or have not been on hrt, i apologize for the statement. i am pretty sure you have stated you were but i am too lazy to do a search.
 
Guys, you are all missing the most obvious way to lose excess fat: have sex in the morning on empty stomach for 30-45' before breakfast. :)
 
I find it very hard to believe that genetics and natural metabolism doesnt play a big role in fat burning. Of course the Pros might not have to do cardio, but thats because like you stated, the insane amount of drugs and great genetics. My lifting partner has never went above 9-10% while bulking and that is while eating everything in site, he cant put fat no matter how hard he tries, his metabolism is that fast. He easily can cut down to 6-7% with just diet and training. Me on the other hand has a very slow metabolism. I have went from 9% bf to 18% in a matter on months while bulking.

Now, If me and him were to try and cut down in say a 3 month period, a little comp per say, you are trying to tell me that a strict diet and training will keep me right on pace with him, i dont think so. I agree that it is possible, but it will take me about 6 months to lose the amount of bf he lost in 2 months. Now, lets say I throw in cardio, are you saying that it would not speed the process up and make op the difference in our metabolism differences??
 
Fukkenshredded said:
Sprints, farmer's walk, high rep squats.

Anyone who does any of that in the a.m., on an empty stomach, will never theorize again about any of this.

Losing muscle? We're talking about a 20 minute workout here. How much muscle will you lose? The fat is burned all day, after the exercise. Go to maximum intensity, to total failure.

I have never ever seen this approach fail. Not once. I can get to 5% with this, without drugs. It works. Try it first, eight weeks, then come back and post your theories.

They will be much different.
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damn right bro! your pics are insane!! can you coach me via online? pm me if you wanna help


p.s if you guys havnt seen his pics(fn-shredded) then you aint seen ripped!!
 
Vageta said:
You are missing Nelson's simple point. Fat loss happens due to a negative calorie balance, not because you do xxx exercise for yyy minutes at zzz heartrate. Cardio burns calories, as does every other activity you do throughout the day so there is no "magic" that happens when you step on a treadmill. If you want to lose fat then create a caloric deficit and do some form of weight training to signal the body to preserve it's muscle. Anything after that is basically fluff.

Can cardio help you burn fat? Sure if your diet is sub par and you need to help it out. Can you lose all the fat you want by just diet and weight training? Yep. I think you guys would be amazed at what a well planned diet and workout regimen could provide you given you executed it correctly. Cardio shouldn't be a crutch you rely on to get lean. I'd rather eat 300 less calories per day than to jump on some treadmill and run aimlessly like a hamster in a wheel.

If you like cardio then by all means do it, but don't do it because you think you have to in order to burn fat.

Here are some pics from last year. I think it's rather obvious from the before pics that I'm not an ectomorph with a gifted metabolism. I'll be 30 next month as well so I don't have youth to help me out either. Yet even with these 2 factors working against me I was able to make that transformation in a little over 3 months time without cardio. Unfortunately due to a new baby and job I wasn't able to get down to my goal, however I'm back at it this spring and will be as lean as I want to be. All without cardio. By the way I'm not claiming to be incredibly lean in the pics, but the difference in condition between the 2 time frames without cardio is what my point is.

well put
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abc: I started hrt a year ago at age 48. (I've taken take two 2 week breaks in that time). I do not take GH. If you want to see a pictur of me before I took hrt go to www.nelsonmontana.com and go the the bottom of the gallery page. Age 43. No cardio.

Funkinshreded: EXACTLY! Do some 20 rep squats and then have people tell you need cardio!

Machine: You're contradicting yourself. Of course it's about genetics. But doing dumb aerobics won't change that fact. What works for one will work for all -- BUT -- it won't necessarily work as well. That's genetics.
 
Nelson Montana said:
We all agree that cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is good? SAYS WHO???

Cardio on an empty stomach is one of the most catabolic activities you can undertake. That was one of those hypothesis that someone at a magazine thought would make an interesting article and it's been parroted forever.

JoBu's last sentence is 100% correct. However the numbers are nonsense. There are far too many variables. Again, it's just one of those things that was assumed and everyone in the industry went along with it.

Try to realize; the body does not know what activity it's engaged in! When someone says THIS activity is better than THAT activity, it's patently absurd. The body only knows stress. How one responds to it varies from individual to individual.
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You are wrong as far as I am concerned. I have gone hungry all morning and then done cardio around noon and I don't lose strengh or muscle as a result. I have found it to be the best way to lose my bodyfat fast. That's all I've got to say about that.
 
I was a coxswain for 4 years, and I needed to get to lower than 120lbs which involved me getting below 8% BF. A coxswain is the small guy who steers a shell in the sport of rowing BTW. I had a small frame so I wasn't exactly emaciated, just lean. I did cardio and dieted to drop weight, and since I had grown a bit in my last two years as a cox dropping weight involved much more cardio and hardcore dieting. Cardio consisted of an hour of 50-60% steady state rowing or biking. Now I would be dropping my weight from 140 to the mid 120's those two years and I would lose a TON of muscle in the process. It certainly wasn't the most the best way to lose fat and maintain muscle, but the goal was to lose total WEIGHT.

This year I am no longer a cox because of my size (gained 50lbs and some height in a year). But I am now cutting WITHOUT cardio relying solely on diet and weight training just to test it out. Guess what, I keep setting PR's and adding size to some body parts while the fat is melting off me. For years I thought I was the master of losing weight, and the idea of cutting without cardio seemed ridiculous to me. But I have learned if you lift intensely and cut your cals and you will NOT need traditional cardio. I think the two most beneficial exercises I've been using are 20 rep squats and 500 meter rowing pieces (which are 90% legs, like a squat into a bent row, only horizontally). I use those pieces as a replacement for sprints because my joints can't take running.

This is not to say that traditional cardio is useless, I love riding a bike on a beautiful day in the park, and it makes me feel great. But after trying to stay lean all winter on an exercise bike I couldn't stand that boredom anymore.

BTW, I'm 19, but I had to work hard to get lean, so it's just not my genetics or high metabolism of youth. Judging from my parents and my current body composition, my genetics make GAINING weight the only easy thing for me.
 
Goddamn , Nelson annoys me to no end. Weight loss isn't the only cardio benefit, it also increases insulin sensitivity and is very beneficial to cardiovascular health.

Yeah, Mentzer didn't do cardio and what happened to him a couple of years ago?

Case closed
 
what do you think of this?

wake up in the morning, drink protein powder in water, (a powder with very low to no fat and very low to no carbs)
have a vitamin C, now do your 30-40 mins cardio, monderate to low intensity jog (since fat metabolises best during this activity if I'm correct) and wouldn't doing it at that rate make your body more keen on using fat? especially since glycogen levels should be lower after hours of no consumption? also, you throw in the no carb, no fat protein drink, so that if your body needs to use amino acids it should use it from there instead of muscles? how does this sound? opinions? corrections?
 
Nelson Montana said:
Heart rate does not effect fat loss.
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Holy shit...I actually agree with most of what nelson is saying. Except for this little snippet...it's not a big deal, but I just thought I should throw in my 2 cents.

Heart rate most definitely DOES effect fat loss. Heart rate is a good indicator of intensity level, which is a good indicator of VO2 (rate of oxygen uptake). Which (in conjunction with VCO2) is how you determine which fuels are being utilized (fat or carbohydrate). VCO2/VO2 is your Respiratory Exchange Ratio (RER) which tells you which fuels you are burning. The closer your RER is to 0.70 the more fat is being oxidized. The closer your RER is to 1.0 the more carbohydrate is being oxidized. Protein is not oxidized enough to be of any tangible effect.

I do not recall at the moment what range of intesities are optimal for fat burning...but i can check and get back to you if you want.

One thing to remember is that even at that optimal level, you are never burning any ONE fuel...just a different combination.
 
If there are those out there that seriously believe that they have to do cardio to burn fat then it's truly a sad day in the bodybuilding world.

Does cardio burn fat? Yep.

Does sitting in your chair reading this message burn fat? Yep.

Does wiping your ass burn fat? Yep.

Does spanking your monkey burn fat? Yep.

Are any of these activities required to lose fat? Nope, though some of you may choose to indulge in the last one purely for fun.

Cardio is a tool to aid in fat loss, nothing more. Since everyone seems to love digging up studies and debating scientific theories please think on this a bit.

Jo Bob has an average metabolism and burns about 3000 calories per day on average. He drops his calories to 2500 per day and adds three days of resistance training to his schedule. After 4 weeks what is most likely to happen?

A. Jo Bob sustains his weight and bodyfat percentage.
B. Jo Bob loses some water and a few pounds of fat.
C. Jo Bob actually gets fatter.
D. Jo Bob loses some water weight but loses zero ounces of fat because he didn't step on a treadmill or stairmaster?

If you chose anything but answer B then please feel free to continue arguing against common sense. I however won't waste anymore time debating with someone that can't think for themselves.

As usual people skim the messages and reply to what they want to and skip the parts that they can't argue against. Cardio can help you burn fat, especially if your diet and weight training is less than optimal. Cardio can help you strengthen your heart, especially if you are inactive. However cardio is in no way a requirement in burning fat. Period.

As I've said before if you choose to do cardio, please do it for the right reason. Do it for your health or because your diet is lackluster and you use cardio as a crutch. Don't blindly do it because the fitness magazines and the masses on this board tell you to.

I've dieted with and without cardio and had great results both times. In the end I preferred to eat a little less instead of burning those same amount of calories with cardio. Perhaps I'm lazy, perhaps I'm stubborn, but I like all of you still follow the laws of thermodynamics. If calories in < calories out, you will lose weight. So long as you are performing resistance training to signal the body to preserve muscle, and following a proper diet with enough protein then the majority of that weight loss will be fat.

If you still think that a negative calorie balance means nothing to fat loss without some form of cardio then there really is no hope for you. Please continue following the masses without looking up long enough to see the truth.
 
Vageta said:
If there are those out there that seriously believe that they have to do cardio to burn fat then it's truly a sad day in the bodybuilding world.

Does cardio burn fat? Yep.

Does sitting in your chair reading this message burn fat? Yep.

Does wiping your ass burn fat? Yep.

Does spanking your monkey burn fat? Yep.

Are any of these activities required to lose fat? Nope, though some of you may choose to indulge in the last one purely for fun.

Cardio is a tool to aid in fat loss, nothing more. Since everyone seems to love digging up studies and debating scientific theories please think on this a bit.

Jo Bob has an average metabolism and burns about 3000 calories per day on average. He drops his calories to 2500 per day and adds three days of resistance training to his schedule. After 4 weeks what is most likely to happen?

A. Jo Bob sustains his weight and bodyfat percentage.
B. Jo Bob loses some water and a few pounds of fat.
C. Jo Bob actually gets fatter.
D. Jo Bob loses some water weight but loses zero ounces of fat because he didn't step on a treadmill or stairmaster?

If you chose anything but answer B then please feel free to continue arguing against common sense. I however won't waste anymore time debating with someone that can't think for themselves.

As usual people skim the messages and reply to what they want to and skip the parts that they can't argue against. Cardio can help you burn fat, especially if your diet and weight training is less than optimal. Cardio can help you strengthen your heart, especially if you are inactive. However cardio is in no way a requirement in burning fat. Period.

As I've said before if you choose to do cardio, please do it for the right reason. Do it for your health or because your diet is lackluster and you use cardio as a crutch. Don't blindly do it because the fitness magazines and the masses on this board tell you to.

I've dieted with and without cardio and had great results both times. In the end I preferred to eat a little less instead of burning those same amount of calories with cardio. Perhaps I'm lazy, perhaps I'm stubborn, but I like all of you still follow the laws of thermodynamics. If calories in < calories out, you will lose weight. So long as you are performing resistance training to signal the body to preserve muscle, and following a proper diet with enough protein then the majority of that weight loss will be fat.

If you still think that a negative calorie balance means nothing to fat loss without some form of cardio then there really is no hope for you. Please continue following the masses without looking up long enough to see the truth.
Click to expand...

Good advice over all...but just decreasing your caloric intake will probably not give you the fat loss you are hoping for...since when you do this, your BMR is reduced accordingly.

Best way to increase the ratio of fat loss:total weight loss = Keep calories normal and increase caloric expenditure.

Here are some numbers for example:

Effects of diet, training, and diet PLUS training on composition of weight loss:

Diet only: 70% fat...30% lean body mass
Diet PLUS training: 80% fat...20% lean body mass
Exercise training only: 95% fat...5% lean body mass

These are just examples, obviously different people will have different percentages, and will use different diets and exercises..but this just shows the overall trend.
 
The best cardi IN THE WORLD is collegiate wrestling. It works every muscle in the body. Anyone who aregues is WRONG. LOL
 
Good advice over all...but just decreasing your caloric intake will probably not give you the fat loss you are hoping for...since when you do this, your BMR is reduced accordingly.
Click to expand...

Any type of negative calorie balance, whether it is due to eating less or exercising more, will eventually cause the body to respond. If the body burns more calories than it is getting then it will think it's starving and eventually adjust. I'm not arguing that burning more calories isn't a good option because it is, just that for most people it is much easier to eat a few hundred calories less. Another probliem is most people severely over estimate the amount of calories they burn while doing cardio, and if they eat maintenance calories and rely on cardio to create the negative energy balance then they will be severely dissapointed in the resulting fat loss.

Diet and weight training are the necessities in a healthy weight loss plan. Cardio will simply allow you to get away with more calories than with weight training alone. I will most likely start some high intensity type of cardio this year though I will be doing it because I want to, not because I feel I have to.

I'm really interested in doing some farmers walks though I'm afraid I might end up overtraining my arms in the process.
 
What if i LIKE running in the morning?


Regardless of what anyone says, I enjoy running first thing in the morning. Excellent way to start the day. I've done it for 10 years.

when i start cutting, I drop my carbs a little bit and run just a little bit longer...worked like a charm for me.
 
What if i LIKE running in the morning?
Click to expand...

That's my point. If you enjoy cardio then by all means go for it, I sure for one won't tell you not to. Just don't do it because you think you have to.
 
Vageta said:


Any type of negative calorie balance, whether it is due to eating less or exercising more, will eventually cause the body to respond. If the body burns more calories than it is getting then it will think it's starving and eventually adjust. I'm not arguing that burning more calories isn't a good option because it is, just that for most people it is much easier to eat a few hundred calories less. Another probliem is most people severely over estimate the amount of calories they burn while doing cardio, and if they eat maintenance calories and rely on cardio to create the negative energy balance then they will be severely dissapointed in the resulting fat loss.

Diet and weight training are the necessities in a healthy weight loss plan. Cardio will simply allow you to get away with more calories than with weight training alone. I will most likely start some high intensity type of cardio this year though I will be doing it because I want to, not because I feel I have to.

I'm really interested in doing some farmers walks though I'm afraid I might end up overtraining my arms in the process.
Click to expand...

Yes...negative calorie balance will make you lose weight. I am not arguing with that. I'm just saying that if you decrease your calories, your body's basal metabolic rate will slow down, so after a while, the negative calorie balance will be gone. So the best way to induce this negative calorie balance is to be more active, not cut calories.
 
Hmmmmmmmmmm?

Maybe I missed something here, but why not just do cardio because it's good for you? It strengthens the heart and lungs, and makes the whole body function more efficiently. Our society has become so sedentery thats its ashamed, just because you look like your healthy on the outside, dosnt mean that you actually are on the inside. Being 230 at 6% bodyfat means nothing if you get out of breath walking to your car. In the words of the famous Jeep Swenson, "I never do cardio", by the way he also later died of a heart attack. Cardio is good for you no matter what the reasoning behind why your doing it, just do it.
 
Re: Hmmmmmmmmmm?

Big_Nims said:
Maybe I missed something here, but why not just do cardio because it's good for you? It strengthens the heart and lungs, and makes the whole body function more efficiently. Our society has become so sedentery thats its ashamed, just because you look like your healthy on the outside, dosnt mean that you actually are on the inside. Being 230 at 6% bodyfat means nothing if you get out of breath walking to your car. In the words of the famous Jeep Swenson, "I never do cardio", by the way he also later died of a heart attack. Cardio is good for you no matter what the reasoning behind why your doing it, just do it.
Click to expand...

Good post.
 
Amen! Cardio decreases blood pressure, increases insulin sensitivity, increases endurance, and is all around good for your cardiovascular health.

EVERYONE should do cardio, while bulking or cutting.
 
cardio actually doesn't burn that many calories, but the increase in nutrient partioning first, and metabolic rate second are the things that make it essential for many people to get ripped.

as for the most effective cardio, HIIT has been shown in studies to be 9 times more effective per minute of training on actual bodyfat lost than steady state cardio...this is on a study that compared the two of them specifically to see which was more effective for this purpose (if you wanna see it, run a search on google or something w/ HIIT and "Dr. Trembelay"). I do HIIT twice a week, and steady state twice a week for variety when I'm cutting.

Can some people get very lean w/o cardio? sure. But genetics are very important. I'm living proof. I've tried to get lean w/o cardio, w/ a PERFECT diet (high quality protein, only w3 fats, started w/ some carbs eventually went to none...VERY low calories...hard training)....and it didn't work. I need some type of energy system work to get lean. maybe if your insulin sensitivity/nutrient partitioning/metabolism is good...you don't. But just because you can do it, don't assume everyone can. Thats rather naive don't ya think?
 
I do no cardio either. I only diet. I have dropped as much as 46 pounds to cut up doing nothing but dieting and training w/out cardio.
 
GodOfThunder said:
The best cardi IN THE WORLD is collegiate wrestling. It works every muscle in the body. Anyone who aregues is WRONG. LOL
Click to expand...

I tend to shy away from rolling around on the floor with sweaty guys :rainbow: ...I don't care how much fat it burns.

Just fucking with you...but I'd rather run, bike, and swin anyway.

JoBu
 
Cardio is important. You work out almost every other muscle in the body, why not the heart? A strong and healthy heart actually grows in size.

Best Cardio = crazy sex.
That is always what I do.

Cheers,
Mavy
 
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